This is what I've been trying to convey in the past year.

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Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#21
Just as it appears..Israel replaced by the church.
This theology is out of the pit of hell its self. In fact God finds such teachings very offensive.

Jesus is the cornerstone. This is a spiritual truth.
We are living stones in the holy temple, which again is a spiritual truth.
His church is the kingdom (a spiritual kingdom) that presently reigns on earth.

What you are doing is speculating on future (literal) events, which fits into the definition of divination.

Definition of divination: the art or practice that seeks to foresee or foretell future events.

It sounds to me that you are encouraging other christians to interpret omens and practice divination. And if they refuse to practice these things you question their faith.
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#22
Jesus is the cornerstone. This is a spiritual truth.
We are living stones in the holy temple, which again is a spiritual truth.
His church is the kingdom (a spiritual kingdom) that presently reigns on earth.

What you are doing is speculating on future (literal) events, which fits into the definition of divination.

Definition of divination: the art or practice that seeks to foresee or foretell future events.

It sounds to me that you are encouraging other christians to interpret omens and practice divination. And if they refuse to practice these things you question their faith.
Not at all. What I believe God has called me to do is to correct a harm that's been done through out the christian faith.
The separation of jew and gentile should have never been preached for scripture tells us all are one in Christ Jesus.
To fully understand the shadows in the so called old testament is to fully understand who is casting the shadow☺
 
P

pottersclay

Guest
#23
Acts 16:16
As we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl who had a spirit of divination and brought her owners much gain by fortune-telling.

Deuteronomy 18:11
Let no one be found among you who ... practices divination or sorcery, or interprets omens...
These things are of the same Spirit that made heaven and earth and all the things with in.
These are told of the prophets of God.
 

FlyingDove

Senior Member
Dec 27, 2017
1,267
432
83
#24
The Lord has opened my eyes to theses appointed times and I prayerfully ask for your attention towards this video.
This is the very heart and nature of God and how he is moving toward his soon return.
In my battle against replacement theology preaching,( which is on going )he has blessed me with theses insights in his word.
I'm not about a cult of a movement but want to bring out what the Lord has shown me and placed upon my heart to share.


I believe it is very important for every christian to understand the appointed times as it keeps the scriptures in order and reveals false teachings.
I pray that you are not led astray but draw closer to God and his ways and may you once again be set on fire for the Lord and stand in awe of his word and ways.
Hello,
You may or may not find this Feast of the Lord blog of interest. Either way, may His grace me multiplied to you & yours. JJ

https://www.christianforums.com/blogs/author/brotherjj.421227/
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#25
Not at all. What I believe God has called me to do is to correct a harm that's been done through out the christian faith.
The separation of jew and gentile should have never been preached for scripture tells us all are one in Christ Jesus.
To fully understand the shadows in the so called old testament is to fully understand who is casting the shadow☺
That's why dspensationalism had it so wrong. The separation of Jew and gentile. Even though scripture is clear we are all one in Christ.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#26
That's why dspensationalism had it so wrong. The separation of Jew and gentile. Even though scripture is clear we are all one in Christ.
but thats not what dispensationalism teaches.

It teaches we are all one in Christ.

However, Israel were given certain earthly promises. which is separate from being one in Christ.

And those promises are still in effect. Because God told Abraham Isaac and Jacob these were eternal promises.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#27
Not at all. What I believe God has called me to do is to correct a harm that's been done through out the christian faith.
The separation of jew and gentile should have never been preached for scripture tells us all are one in Christ Jesus.
To fully understand the shadows in the so called old testament is to fully understand who is casting the shadow☺
That's why dspensationalism had it so wrong. The separation of Jew and gentile. Even though scripture is clear we are all one in Christ.

but thats not what dispensationalism teaches.

It teaches we are all one in Christ.

However, Israel were given certain earthly promises. which is separate from being one in Christ.

And those promises are still in effect. Because God told Abraham Isaac and Jacob these were eternal promises.


Hi EG


According to Charles Ryrie, author of the book Dispensationalism, there are three primary principles of dispensationalism:

1) The Church and Israel are distinct and separate. Israel was not absorbed into the Church (which began on the Day of Pentecost, Acts 2). Promises made specifically to Israel in the Old Testament that have not been fulfilled will still be fulfilled to the nation of Israel. These promises are not to be spiritualized or assumed they now apply to the Church. For example, in the Abrahamic Covenant, God promised to Abraham that a large section of land in the Middle East would belong to Abraham’s descendants. This is yet to be fulfilled, but will be in the future, in the 1,000-year kingdom that Christ will rule over.


Dispensationalist divide by Ethnicity. It is dispensationalists who divide God's people.

Whereas scripture clearly teaches that there is neither jew nor gentile.. there are no two separate programs... "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. " Eph 4:4ff.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#28
Further.....

Be careful I am not saying dispensationalist believe in two different gospels or two different ways to be saved!
And I forgot to add that the below is a quote from Gotquestions. Didn't want anyone to think I wrote that section.


According to Charles Ryrie, author of the book Dispensationalism, there are three primary principles of dispensationalism:

1) The Church and Israel are distinct and separate. Israel was not absorbed into the Church (which began on the Day of Pentecost, Acts 2). Promises made specifically to Israel in the Old Testament that have not been fulfilled will still be fulfilled to the nation of Israel. These promises are not to be spiritualized or assumed they now apply to the Church. For example, in the Abrahamic Covenant, God promised to Abraham that a large section of land in the Middle East would belong to Abraham’s descendants. This is yet to be fulfilled, but will be in the future, in the 1,000-year kingdom that Christ will rule over.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#29
Hi EG


According to Charles Ryrie, author of the book Dispensationalism, there are three primary principles of dispensationalism:

1) The Church and Israel are distinct and separate. Israel was not absorbed into the Church (which began on the Day of Pentecost, Acts 2). Promises made specifically to Israel in the Old Testament that have not been fulfilled will still be fulfilled to the nation of Israel. These promises are not to be spiritualized or assumed they now apply to the Church. For example, in the Abrahamic Covenant, God promised to Abraham that a large section of land in the Middle East would belong to Abraham’s descendants. This is yet to be fulfilled, but will be in the future, in the 1,000-year kingdom that Christ will rule over.


Dispensationalist divide by Ethnicity. It is dispensationalists who divide God's people.

Whereas scripture clearly teaches that there is neither jew nor gentile.. there are no two separate programs... "There is one body and one Spirit, just as you were called to one hope when you were called; one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all. " Eph 4:4ff.
According to the abrahamic covenant, The above is correct.

In Abraham shall ALL the nations of the world be blessed (this is salvation. both jew and gentile)

And I give you this land as an everlasting gift. And I will be your God (Jew only)

Where we run into trouble is saying the church has both promises. And not just the one.

Replacement theology has both going to the church. This is error
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
#31
The separation of jew and gentile should have never been preached for scripture tells us all are one in Christ Jesus.
What is true "in Christ" (which is the Church) does not cancel God's promises to Israel, which will be fulfilled AFTER the Second Coming of Christ, and AFTER the Church has been completed and raptured. See Romans 11 for details. Then go to the Old Testament to see what Paul is talking about.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#32
What is true "in Christ" (which is the Church) does not cancel God's promises to Israel, which will be fulfilled AFTER the Second Coming of Christ, and AFTER the Church has been completed and raptured. See Romans 11 for details. Then go to the Old Testament to see what Paul is talking about.
You are divining.

Definition for divining:
- discover (something) by guesswork or intuition.
- have supernatural or magical insight into (future events).

What does God's word say about such things?

Proverbs 27:1
Do not boast about tomorrow, for you do not know what a day may bring.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
#33
Since I am not into divination you are failing to understand what is revealed in Romans 11. Paul presents both the Church AND redeemed and restored Israel in that one chapter. So kindly study it carefully instead of making false accusations.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#34
Since I am not into divination you are failing to understand what is revealed in Romans 11. Paul presents both the Church AND redeemed and restored Israel in that one chapter. So kindly study it carefully instead of making false accusations.
You are making a detailed prediction of the future by writing, "AFTER the Church has been completed and raptured."
You are making this future predcition with such confidence (almost a boastfulness) that you put the word 'after' in ALL CAPS.

So in Romans 11 it does appear that God has a special unique plan for Israel, different from all others. In other words God has a unique partiality toward Israel.

And yet in Acts 11 we are told that God shows no partiality.

So what stands TODAY? Today we are to show no partiality.
We can hope, and speculate on the future. but when we come to certainties and absolutes on future events we are trending toward divining or fortune telling.

We are better to focus on today, the present time. At present we know for certain that the church is the kingdom of God on earth. So let us focus , and remain and build here.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,774
113
#35
...but when we come to certainties and absolutes on future events we are trending toward divining or fortune telling.
You seem to be more interested in making false accusations than dealing with what is actually in the Bible. Accusing Christians of divination and fortune telling is slander -- plain and simple. If that is what you enjoy fine. You will give account.

When Christians study the Word and discern God's plans as revealed by Him, that is neither divination nor fortune telling. The Bible reveals that God has a future plan for redeemed and restored Israel. And that will not go into effect until the Church has been completed. That is exactly what Paul stated in Romans 11:25-27: For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion [Jerusalem] the Deliverer [Christ], and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob [Israel]: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

What does this passage teach us?

1. The partial judicial blindness of Israel to the fact that Jesus of Nazareth is their true Messiah is a mystery. One should have expected every Jew to believe on Him, but such was not the case.

2. Gentiles Christians are not to be high-minded and wise in their own conceits when speaking of unsaved Jews during the Church Age, because God does have a future plan for Israel.

3. Blindness in part means that there will be Jews saved during the Church Age and will be a part of the Church. These are the Messianic Jews we hear and read about. The Church began with saved Jews in Jerusalem, but eventually there were more Gentiles added to the Church than Jews.

4. "Until the fulness of the Gentiles" is a reference to the fact that God has a specific number of Gentiles in mind before the Church is completed. When the full measure of Gentiles "be come in" or are gathered into the Church, that will be the end of the Church Age and will culminate in the Resurrection/Rapture. After that the Marriage of the Lamb will occur, followed by Christ coming to earth "with power and great glory", and accompanied by all His saints and angels.

5. However Christ will return to earth at least seven years later, and AFTER His Second Coming He will gather all Jews worldwide to Israel. He will send forth His angels as noted in Matthew 24.

6. Following that one-third of all the Jews will be saved (as noted in the OT). But since we see that "all Israel" is saved, it can only mean that Jews from each and every one of the 12 tribes will be saved. That would encompass "all Israel" but not every living Jew at that time.

7. Christ will come to the Mount of Olives (which will split at that time) and deal with His enemies at the battle of Armageddon. The Antichrist and the False Prophet, along with all the enemies of Christ, will be destroyed at that time. Then Jesus will turn His attention to the Jews.

8. Christ will therefore be the Deliverer of Israel and the Jews, following which there will be genuine mourning and repentance among believing Jews. They will finally recognize Christ as Yeshua ha Mashiach (the one whom they pierced), and He will "take away their sins". All those redeemed at this time will receive the Holy Spirit and be born again.

9. After this Christ will establish His millennial Kingdom, which will include a redeemed and restored Israel on earth, with all 12 tribes settled in the land of greater Israel (from the Nile to the Euphrates). For details see the prophecy of Ezekiel.

10. "For this is my covenant unto them" means that what was promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob ("the fathers") through the Abrahamic Covenant will definitely be fulfilled. Which also means that Replacement Theology has no validity.
 

Nebuchadnezzer

Well-known member
Feb 8, 2019
1,134
205
63
#36
You seem to be more interested in making false accusations than dealing with what is actually in the Bible. Accusing Christians of divination and fortune telling is slander -- plain and simple. If that is what you enjoy fine. You will give account.

When Christians study the Word and discern God's plans as revealed by Him, that is neither divination nor fortune telling. The Bible reveals that God has a future plan for redeemed and restored Israel. And that will not go into effect until the Church has been completed. That is exactly what Paul stated in Romans 11:25-27: For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in. And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion [Jerusalem] the Deliverer [Christ], and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob [Israel]: For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

What does this passage teach us?

1. The partial judicial blindness of Israel to the fact that Jesus of Nazareth is their true Messiah is a mystery. One should have expected every Jew to believe on Him, but such was not the case.

2. Gentiles Christians are not to be high-minded and wise in their own conceits when speaking of unsaved Jews during the Church Age, because God does have a future plan for Israel.

3. Blindness in part means that there will be Jews saved during the Church Age and will be a part of the Church. These are the Messianic Jews we hear and read about. The Church began with saved Jews in Jerusalem, but eventually there were more Gentiles added to the Church than Jews.

4. "Until the fulness of the Gentiles" is a reference to the fact that God has a specific number of Gentiles in mind before the Church is completed. When the full measure of Gentiles "be come in" or are gathered into the Church, that will be the end of the Church Age and will culminate in the Resurrection/Rapture. After that the Marriage of the Lamb will occur, followed by Christ coming to earth "with power and great glory", and accompanied by all His saints and angels.

5. However Christ will return to earth at least seven years later, and AFTER His Second Coming He will gather all Jews worldwide to Israel. He will send forth His angels as noted in Matthew 24.

6. Following that one-third of all the Jews will be saved (as noted in the OT). But since we see that "all Israel" is saved, it can only mean that Jews from each and every one of the 12 tribes will be saved. That would encompass "all Israel" but not every living Jew at that time.

7. Christ will come to the Mount of Olives (which will split at that time) and deal with His enemies at the battle of Armageddon. The Antichrist and the False Prophet, along with all the enemies of Christ, will be destroyed at that time. Then Jesus will turn His attention to the Jews.

8. Christ will therefore be the Deliverer of Israel and the Jews, following which there will be genuine mourning and repentance among believing Jews. They will finally recognize Christ as Yeshua ha Mashiach (the one whom they pierced), and He will "take away their sins". All those redeemed at this time will receive the Holy Spirit and be born again.

9. After this Christ will establish His millennial Kingdom, which will include a redeemed and restored Israel on earth, with all 12 tribes settled in the land of greater Israel (from the Nile to the Euphrates). For details see the prophecy of Ezekiel.

10. "For this is my covenant unto them" means that what was promised to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob ("the fathers") through the Abrahamic Covenant will definitely be fulfilled. Which also means that Replacement Theology has no validity.
You are foretelling future events. You don't see this?

What about prophesy that has already been fulfilled? Can you correctly interpret prophesy which has already been fulfilled? For if one cannot correctly interpret fulfilled prophesy how can that person correctly interpret unfulfilled prophesy?

Example Daniel 8:11:
Please match Daniel 8:11 to other scriptural verses showing it as fulfilled or unfulfilled.

Daniel 8:11
It magnified itself, even to the Prince of the host; it removed His daily sacrifice and overthrew the place of His sanctuary.
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#37
According to the abrahamic covenant, The above is correct.

In Abraham shall ALL the nations of the world be blessed (this is salvation. both jew and gentile)

And I give you this land as an everlasting gift. And I will be your God (Jew only)

Where we run into trouble is saying the church has both promises. And not just the one.

Replacement theology has both going to the church. This is error


Are not all promises fulfilled in Christ?

Who are Abraham's seed? who inherit? and in whom?
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#38
Are not all promises fulfilled in Christ?

Who are Abraham's seed? who inherit? and in whom?
Abraham has many seed. But only one seed is assured the physical promise of a nation
the church was not told if they obey they will live in peace in palestine
it was not told if they sin they will be destroyed and scattered all over the earth
it was not told even after they are scattered. If the repent. God will remember his promise to the fathers he will remember the land
gods promises as Paul said are irrevocable. They still stand
 

phil36

Senior Member
Feb 12, 2009
8,345
2,157
113
#39
Abraham has many seed. But only one seed is assured the physical promise of a nation



"and God said to him, 4 “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”"

Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. - Gal 3:16

And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. - Matt 3:9

For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God. -

It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. - Romans 9:6-8

even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he says in Hosea:
“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;
and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,

and,
“In the very place where it was said to them,
‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘children of the living God. - Romans 9:24-28.


So the all those of faith are children of the promise to Abraham, the nation of Israel came about under the mosaic covenant.

And all of Abraham's seed can look forward to the eternal promise Gen 17:8:

Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. - Revelation 21:1-2.
 
E

eternally-gratefull

Guest
#40
"and God said to him, 4 “As for me, this is my covenant with you: You will be the father of many nations. 5 No longer will you be called Abram; your name will be Abraham, for I have made you a father of many nations. 6 I will make you very fruitful; I will make nations of you, and kings will come from you. 7 I will establish my covenant as an everlasting covenant between me and you and your descendants after you for the generations to come, to be your God and the God of your descendants after you. 8 The whole land of Canaan, where you now reside as a foreigner, I will give as an everlasting possession to you and your descendants after you; and I will be their God.”"

Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, “And to offsprings,” referring to many, but referring to one, “And to your offspring,” who is Christ. - Gal 3:16

And do not presume to say to yourselves, ‘We have Abraham as our father,’ for I tell you, God is able from these stones to raise up children for Abraham. - Matt 3:9

For no one is a Jew who is merely one outwardly, nor is circumcision outward and physical. 29 But a Jew is one inwardly, and circumcision is a matter of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter. His praise is not from man but from God. -

It is not as though God’s word had failed. For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham’s children. On the contrary, “It is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.” 8 In other words, it is not the children by physical descent who are God’s children, but it is the children of the promise who are regarded as Abraham’s offspring. - Romans 9:6-8

even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles? 25 As he says in Hosea:
“I will call them ‘my people’ who are not my people;
and I will call her ‘my loved one’ who is not my loved one,

and,
“In the very place where it was said to them,
‘You are not my people,’
there they will be called ‘children of the living God. - Romans 9:24-28.


So the all those of faith are children of the promise to Abraham, the nation of Israel came about under the mosaic covenant.

And all of Abraham's seed can look forward to the eternal promise Gen 17:8:

Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,” for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. - Revelation 21:1-2.
1. The promise of faith has nothing to do with the land promise
2 the promise was made before the law
3 the promise was called an eternal promise forever. If that promise is done away with as replacement theologians insist then forever is not forever. For those of us who preach eternal life is eternal and will never end we have a problem if Gods eternal promise to Israel is done away
4 lev 26 gave Israel punishment for disobedience the last punishment was fulfilled in AD70 when Rome scattered Israel completely from her land
5 that same promise of punishment promised that if the nation repent of her sins and her fathers sins God would remember the promise he would remember the land

That promise is in effect today. It has nothing to do with the church. Or new Jerusalem. Israel was not promised new Jerusalem it did nit exist yet and the church was not promised the land

Replacement theology is wrong my friend it states God goes back on his promises. If it is true you and I have no hope that God will not cancel his promise to us