Those Who Deny Sin in a Believer

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
PeterJens said:
I hear what you are saying, but we are having a miss-communication. Everyone stays their
unique personality and style, but gains the insight, love and serving heart of Christ.

And if you think being like Christ is crazy, Paul and Jesus talked about it.
Paul says follow his example and he follows Christs and Jesus says be one with
Him. Paul says we should think like Christ and have the same attitude to things
that He had.

Now if you truly want to know Jesus as your Lord you need to know His will and
desires and why they are so good.

Now I have found many of the ideas the Lord brings to us grow and develop as
we spend time in His word. So I suggest you do more of this.
Click to expand...

Thinking like and being like are not the same. And of course Jesus wants to be one with us and that was something He accomplished. The basic premise here is that I cannot do anything to please or displease God through any of my actions. That would only point to me. I can however rely and rest and trust in his Grace and Mercy, which then allows me to hear Him when He speaks. To live in the spirit which is life, not to the letter which is death, as Paul writes.
And my time in the word is a non-issue between God and I. So yes trying to be more like Christ is crazy. Didn't Lucifer want that?
 
limey410 said:
Thinking like and being like are not the same. And of course Jesus wants to be one with us and that was something He accomplished. The basic premise here is that I cannot do anything to please or displease God through any of my actions. That would only point to me. I can however rely and rest and trust in his Grace and Mercy, which then allows me to hear Him when He speaks. To live in the spirit which is life, not to the letter which is death, as Paul writes.
And my time in the word is a non-issue between God and I. So yes trying to be more like Christ is crazy. Didn't Lucifer want that?
Click to expand...
Might want to take a peek at 1 John 4:17...
 
limey410 said:
The basic premise here is that I cannot do anything to please or displease God through any of my actions.
Click to expand...

Look at Ezek 18:21-26 God changes His response to people based on their behaviour.
The whole of the giving of the law and the promises was a covenant of behaviour.
Jesus says if we behave in a manner according to the sermon on the mount we are
building our lives upon the rock.

So your basic premise is wrong and does not come from the Lord.
Now I am sorry to be this definative but God is that definative.

The teaching you are expounding sounds like a new source.
Is it your own or some of the big speakers in the charismatic, prosperity, health,
grace circuit?
 
limey410 said:
Yes, washed clean and blemish free for the day of Judgement, by the Blood of Jesus.
Click to expand...

AMEN...when I see the blood I will pass over you......the blood is applied by faith and the righteousness of Christ is applied by faith and we are saved, sealed, justified and sanctified in Christ positionally.....AMEN and ALL praise and glory goes to JESUS......!
 
PeterJens said:
Look at Ezek 18:21-26 God changes His response to people based on their behaviour.
The whole of the giving of the law and the promises was a covenant of behaviour.
Jesus says if we behave in a manner according to the sermon on the mount we are
building our lives upon the rock.

So your basic premise is wrong and does not come from the Lord.
Now I am sorry to be this definative but God is that definative.

The teaching you are expounding sounds like a new source.
Is it your own or some of the big speakers in the charismatic, prosperity, health,
grace circuit?
Click to expand...

So you are referring to the old covenant/law to justify your argument. Just in case you didn't know Jesus came to give us a New Covenant (Jeremiah 31: 31-34) that would not be the same as the old.

The sermon on the mount was to show the Jews how futile the law was, how only through what Jesus was about to do through His grace and Mercy on the cross to usher in the New Covenant. So we could have a relationship with Him. Not as basic instruction for how to be a Christian. If so why do you still have both of your eyes, or both of your hands, are you not an adulterer or murderer. If you have them both you will be cast in to the pit of Hell. You should spend more time understanding the contextual and historical chronology of events that the Bible testifies to before you judge me. If I were you I would sincerely give the Law a real chance, do the Law in its entirety, and then when you fail you can come back to the New Covenant, and then maybe you will find true peace and rest in the Lord Jesus and His grace and Mercy.
As far the other insults, I will ignore them.
 
limey410 said:
So you are referring to the old covenant/law to justify your argument. Just in case you didn't know Jesus came to give us a New Covenant (Jeremiah 31: 31-34) that would not be the same as the old.

The sermon on the mount was to show the Jews how futile the law was, how only through what Jesus was about to do through His grace and Mercy on the cross to usher in the New Covenant. So we could have a relationship with Him. Not as basic instruction for how to be a Christian. If so why do you still have both of your eyes, or both of your hands, are you not an adulterer or murderer. If you have them both you will be cast in to the pit of Hell. You should spend more time understanding the contextual and historical chronology of events that the Bible testifies to before you judge me. If I were you I would sincerely give the Law a real chance, do the Law in its entirety, and then when you fail you can come back to the New Covenant, and then maybe you will find true peace and rest in the Lord Jesus and His grace and Mercy.
As far the other insults, I will ignore them.
Click to expand...


AMEN to that......it is all JESUS.......that is why ALL glory goes to GOD.....men have no basis to boast or glory concerning self and or any work that may be done....it is ALL JESUS....!
 
eternally-gratefull said:

I have noticed, when people have to spend alot of time defending themselves because they believe in things which are not true, They come up with these things which utterly make no sense to anyone but themselves.

In fact, I am quite sure I have done that many times myself..
Click to expand...


I heard that.....like so far out that they are not even out of left field........beyond absurd.....!
 
limey410 said:
The sermon on the mount was to show the Jews how futile the law was, how only through what Jesus was about to do through His grace and Mercy on the cross to usher in the New Covenant.
Click to expand...

My friend and all who follow this view of Jesus and the Lords word, you are doomed.

Jesus was not joking about building your house upon a rock.
You are just ignoring His words and building your house upon the sand.

The words of Jesus's prophecy will come true for you.

It is like you guys are wolves in sheeps clothings, talking Jesus's words will denying
their reality at the same time.

Every believer I know who walks in the Spirit and the ways of God stands in opposition
to your testimony, and stands 100% on the sermon on the mount.

This is the good fruit bearing witness in our hearts to Gods reality and His way of
righteousness, purity and holiness.
 
PeterJens said:
My friend and all who follow this view of Jesus and the Lords word, you are doomed.

Jesus was not joking about building your house upon a rock.
You are just ignoring His words and building your house upon the sand.

The words of Jesus's prophecy will come true for you.

It is like you guys are wolves in sheeps clothings, talking Jesus's words will denying
their reality at the same time.

Every believer I know who walks in the Spirit and the ways of God stands in opposition
to your testimony, and stands 100% on the sermon on the mount.

This is the good fruit bearing witness in our hearts to Gods reality and His way of
righteousness, purity and holiness.
Click to expand...

no peter, wrong as usual. the ones who will not make it are the ones who reject Jesus as savior. you have such a legalistic mindset, it is not even funny.

all this lecturing from a person who rejects the Biblical definition of sin.
 
Works-righteousness mindsets think that if they "do the sermon on the mount" then they will be righteous and are saved. It is works-righteousness and it is an anti-Christ belief system.

That is a D.I.Y self-righteousness/holiness mindset which denies the work of the Lord and exchanges the grace of God for "what they do or don't do".

Jesus was definitely elevating the law to expose our need for a Savior and showed the true intent of the Law of Moses.

I also believe parts of the sermon on the mount are descriptions of what the kingdom looks like when the life of Christ is manifesting in lives. Mimicking it does not bring righteousness. Christ's righteousness is a major stumbling block to the self-righteousness/holiness mindset of religious works.

As we look to Jesus' finished work on the cross and resurrection - His life that is in us will manifest His fruit in and through us - and this is vastly different then trying to "do the sermon on the mount" by our own self-effort and human fleshly will-power.
 
gb9 said:
no peter, wrong as usual. the ones who will not make it are the ones who reject Jesus as savior. you have such a legalistic mindset, it is not even funny.

all this lecturing from a person who rejects the Biblical definition of sin.
Click to expand...

Thankyou gb9. I understand where you are coming from. The sermon on the mount
condemns you because your heart is far from the Lord and true righteousness.

To you I am a legalist claiming false justification by listening to Jesus and following
His word and finding the fruit of life in my heart.

The problem with your approach is you junk everything Jesus says because of your
heart rather than seeking how to apply it through the Holy Spirit.

Unfortunately not only are you describing Gods word as in error you are making me
a hypocrite and a liar to follow it, so we are enemies in a real sense.

So it is not a surprise we do not get on, or you go against Jesus's plain meaning and
instruction. I know my Lord and His word, and that is enough for me.

I pray you also learn how to humble yourself before Him and listen to what He is
saying through this eternal reality. It is life, and it is the Holy Spirit.
 
Grace777x70 said:
Works-righteousness mindsets think that if they "do the sermon on the mount" then they will be righteous and are saved. It is works-righteousness and it is an anti-Christ belief system.
Click to expand...

The interesting thing about this statement is it is almost heretical, but not quite.
We are saved through the cross and faith in Jesus, after we have repented of our sins,
and confessed our poistion and faith in Jesus.

The sermon on the mount is a declaration of Gods heart.
Now it is true a legalist will try and put this into action to justify themselves and fail.

But a follower of Christ knows Gods heart and learns from the sermon where His will
lies and how it lies. So they will put in place the precepts and be careful to listen
to the Holy Spirit and His prompting.

But this response from so many of one camp declares their hatred to the truths declared
by Christ in this passage. The more I understand it, the more it enriches my soul and
the more obvious those who talk against such realities do not know the author.
 
Grace777x70 said:
The sky is blue....
Click to expand...

Yes the sky is blue, but you do not see God in all His glory.

The Lord never forces these things on anyone, because the Kingdom is a Kingdom of love.
But so much of this interaction is always total condemnation and denial of Jesus's words
and those who follow it.

It should seriously worry you that you have taken such a place and ended up so hostile
not against sin and sinners, but against believers and those who follow Jesus.

What I know in my heart, is I cannot empathise with you, because that would be to leave
the Lords blessing and presence. Whatever you reasons for rebellion they will always stand
while you cling on to them.

We have one calling, to walk in the Fathers will. His will is that we do the good works He
called us to do in Christ Jesus, and I just say, Amen.
 
PeterJens said:
Thankyou gb9. I understand where you are coming from. The sermon on the mount
condemns you because your heart is far from the Lord and true righteousness.

To you I am a legalist claiming false justification by listening to Jesus and following
His word and finding the fruit of life in my heart.

The problem with your approach is you junk everything Jesus says because of your
heart rather than seeking how to apply it through the Holy Spirit.

Unfortunately not only are you describing Gods word as in error you are making me
a hypocrite and a liar to follow it, so we are enemies in a real sense.

So it is not a surprise we do not get on, or you go against Jesus's plain meaning and
instruction. I know my Lord and His word, and that is enough for me.

I pray you also learn how to humble yourself before Him and listen to what He is
saying through this eternal reality. It is life, and it is the Holy Spirit.
Click to expand...

all this lecturing is just white noise from someone who flatly refuses to use the Biblical definition of sin. just rhetoric.
 
I am against all things that pervert the gospel of the grace and love of God shown in Christ's perfect and finished work on the cross and resurrection. I am against the religion of creating and maintaining your own righteousness - it is an anti-Christ belief system.

I am against the destructive sin of self-righteousness and the sin of unbelief in the work of Christ. I am against the sin that destroys us of thinking that we can do our own righteousness.

I am against the sin of those that in deceit say the opposite of what is being said. I am against the sin that says "I praise God and What a King" and then in the other side of the mouth - they insult and curse and slander others in the body of Christ.

I am against sinning as it distorts our view of God, others and ourselves despite the lies trying to be proposed.

The sky is blue...
 
gb9 said:
all this lecturing is just white noise from someone who flatly refuses to use the Biblical definition of sin. just rhetoric.
Click to expand...

gb9 - you sound like a repeating clock. Sin is defined by the word of God and if you are
not prepared to apply it to your heart and repent there is nothing left to share.

And in truth we only know the sin that applies to us by dwelling in the word and in the
Holy Spirit. I could say all the nicest words there are, if I do not deal with Gods conviction
in my heart over my issues, I am lost.

And this is the point, it is not hard to know our failure points it is how we are dealing with
them in Christ that matters.

God bless you, for I love you as a brother though know you are a opponent.
 
Grace777x70 said:
I am against all things that pervert the gospel of the grace
Click to expand...

The weirdest thing for me as a believer and your group is how a work of the Holy Spirit
which showed He works in many believers across the church, has got turned into
denying Christs words and turning everything into conviction is evil, acceptance is good.

I suppose it makes sense for people who are distant from their hearts and Jesus is all
about a contract negotiation, but change of the heart and sin is eternal and reflected
in behaviour and love.

Jesus words break those who are not transformed, but confirm those who the Lord
has moved and brought about glorious things to His praise.

So I suspect whether I like it or not, people are what they are, and have progressed
in God and Jesus or not. It would be nice to have loving people who knew Christ alive
and at work in them, but clearly such things are not a forgone conclusion.

Saul as a religious zealot believed he was cleansing Judiasm of the curse of the followers
of the way, so I suppose there will always be zealots using any scheme they can to
cleanse the body of believers, not seeing it is all pointless and a total missunderstanding
of love and the truth.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back