Three Gods or one? Explain the Trinity.
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So your OBJECTION is Not UNDERSTANDABLE, I was talking about GOD expecting us to Go by mans ordinances that do not contradict what GOD Told us to do. Obedience is Part of our AGAPE LOVE, and NEVER HAS BEEN PART OF OUR SALVATION. We strive to OBEY HIM, because the LOVE HE PUT INTO US was AGAPE LOVE, Rom. 5:5; and it produces the same kind of LOVE back to HIM. If you brake the LAW of one of the least ORDINANCES, GOD says you are GUILTY OF Break ALL the Law in the entire BIBLE, Jame 2:10.
I used to be a Volunteer Chaplain in a prison, and I taught them, "The worst mass murderer on Death Row, is not a worse Sinner than us, we are as BAD as him, because we ALL are guilty of braking ALL OF GOD's LAWS." They understood it PERFECTLY.
One molecule of H20 can be solid, liquid or gas but not at the same time.
The trinity dogma specifically defines that the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are not three separate manifestations of one God but each are separate and distinct personages with each being completely God. However, they are not three Gods but each having the same nature are one God.
If you H20 in solid, liquid and gas at the same time you have three molecules of H20, not one molecule.
The trinity is to religion what 'infinite' is to mathematics, a true concept having no truth in reality. For example, believers in scientism would claim that the universe is infinite, or rather extends outward in every direction without end. There is nothing anyone can say that will persuade them that it is not true until they discover it for themselves. The same with those who believe in the trinity. You would think that something infinite wouldn't be expanding but then again that would be like asking what is the name of the Father, the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Ghost.
The trinity dogma specifically defines that the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit are not three separate manifestations of one God but each are separate and distinct personages with each being completely God. However, they are not three Gods but each having the same nature are one God.
If you H20 in solid, liquid and gas at the same time you have three molecules of H20, not one molecule.
The trinity is to religion what 'infinite' is to mathematics, a true concept having no truth in reality. For example, believers in scientism would claim that the universe is infinite, or rather extends outward in every direction without end. There is nothing anyone can say that will persuade them that it is not true until they discover it for themselves. The same with those who believe in the trinity. You would think that something infinite wouldn't be expanding but then again that would be like asking what is the name of the Father, the name of the Son and the name of the Holy Ghost.
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He was asking for a simple answer, probably because he is NOT THINK about an Infinite HOLY GOD and that is NOT OF THIS CREATED UNIVERSE and HOW DIFFERENT THAT BEING WOULD BE, WHO HAS THE POWER TO CREATE, IS OMNIPRESENT in ALL TIME AND SPACE, and IS ALL KNOWING, etc.
HOW DO I KNOW ? ? ? THE HOLY SPIRIT CONVINCED ME OF THE TRUTH ABOUT THE HOLY TRINITY AND SO DID CHRIST, THEREFORE I DO NOT CARE WHAT THE WORLD WANTS TO BELIEVE, BECAUSE I BELIEVE IN THE TRIUNE GOD, PERIOD.
1 Corinthians 2:6-16 (NIV)
6 We do, however, speak a message of wisdom among the mature, but not the wisdom of this age or of the rulers of this age, who are coming to nothing.
7 No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began.
8 None of the rulers of this age understood it, for if they had, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
9 However, as it is written: "No eye has seen, no ear has heard, no mind has conceived what God has prepared for those who love him"--
10 but God has revealed it to us by his Spirit. The Spirit searches all things, even the deep things of God.
11 For who among men knows the thoughts of a man except the man's spirit within him? In the same way no one knows the thoughts of God except the Spirit of God.
12 We have not received the spirit of the world but the Spirit who is from God, that we may understand what God has freely given us.
13 This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words.
14 The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.
15 The spiritual man makes judgments about all things, but he himself is not subject to any man's judgment:
16 "For who has known the mind of the Lord that he may instruct him?" But we have the mind of Christ.
J
maybe i am mistaken, can you give me an example of a government that was or is in accordance to the laws of scripture. from my experience most all governments have been corrupt and if a good leader does pop up every once in a while to challenge them he is silenced or killed.
Satan is god of this world which is why the world works the way it does. roman leaders fed Christians to the lions, todays leaders bail out the banks at the expense of the masses. im not going to bow down to these tyrants.
Satan is god of this world which is why the world works the way it does. roman leaders fed Christians to the lions, todays leaders bail out the banks at the expense of the masses. im not going to bow down to these tyrants.
No, all MEN have a SIN NATURE, that causes us to have a propensity to sin. WE WILL NOT BE PERFECT UNTIL WE GET THAT GLORIFIED BODY AT THE RESURRECTION. HOWEVER when we are BORN AGAIN, mourning over our utter sinfulness, and choosing HIM as LORD, meaning MASTER, out of sincere Agape LOVE FOR HIM, a change takes place in our Human Spirit. OBEDIENCE is Part of AGAPE LOVE, never was part of SALVATION. That change in our Human Spirit means IT THINKS TOO and it sincerely wants to do what pleasing to the LORD. It will grow to be stronger and stronger as we MATURE spiritually, as we feed on HIS WORD. Therefore as we mature spiritually, we will sin LESS, and LESS, and LESS.
EVEN tho men or women in GOVERNMENT are not PERFECT, are we supposed to RESPECT THEM, and strive to obey the laws of the land? ABSOLUTELY, as long as one of there laws does not attempt to make us violate one of GOD's LAWS. (For Example: If they passed a MANDATORY ABORTION LAW after the first child, GOD would expect us to not honor that law.)
Romans 13:1-8 (HCSB)
1 Everyone must submit to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist are instituted by God.
2 So then, the one who resists the authority is opposing God’s command, and those who oppose it will bring judgment on themselves.
3 For rulers are not a terror to good conduct, but to bad. Do you want to be unafraid of the authority? Do what is good, and you will have its approval.
4 For government is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, because it does not carry the sword for no reason. For government is God’s servant, an avenger that brings wrath on the one who does wrong.
5 Therefore, you must submit, not only because of wrath, but also because of your conscience.
6 And for this reason you pay taxes, since the ⌊authorities⌋ are God’s public servants, continually attending to these tasks.
7 Pay your obligations to everyone: taxes to those you owe taxes, tolls to those you owe tolls, respect to those you owe respect, and honor to those you owe honor.
8 Do not owe anyone anything, except to love one another, for the one who loves another has fulfilled the law.
Romans 12:1-3 (HCSB)
1 Therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, I urge you to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God; this is your spiritual worship.
2 Do not be conformed to this age, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may discern what is the good, pleasing, and perfect will of God.
3 For by the grace given to me, I tell everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he should think. Instead, think sensibly, as God has distributed a measure of faith to each one.
1 Peter 2:13-17 (NKJV)
13 Therefore submit yourselves to every ordinance of man for the Lord's sake, whether to the king as supreme,
14 or to governors, as to those who are sent by him for the punishment of evildoers and for the praise of those who do good.
15 For this is the will of God, that by doing good you may put to silence the ignorance of foolish men--
16 as free, yet not using liberty as a cloak for vice, but as bondservants of God.
17 Honor all people. Love the brotherhood. Fear God. Honor the king.
I forgot something, Satan DOES NOT HAVE A FREE REIGN OVER THIS EARTH.
1 John 4:4-6 (HCSB)
4 You are from God, little children, and you have conquered them, because the One who is in you is greater than the one who is in the world.
5 They are from the world. Therefore what they say is from the world, and the world listens to them.
6 We are from God. Anyone who knows God listens to us; anyone who is not from God does not listen to us. From this we know the Spirit of truth and the spirit of deception.
2 Thessalonians 2:6-8 (HCSB)
6 And you know what currently restrains ⌊him⌋, so that he will be revealed in his time.
7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one now restraining will do so until he is out of the way,
8 and then the lawless one will be revealed. The Lord Jesus will destroy him with the breath of His mouth and will bring him to nothing with the brightness of His coming.
The ONE who now is restraining the one Satan has Possessed, so that he does not come to FULL POWER before the time has come, is the HOLY SPIRIT in us. He will have a just a few years left, not much more than 7 years, of FULL POWER, before the LORD comes back, and HE will destroy the Antichrist with HIS WORD from HIS MOUTH.
My guess is you will not understand this at all, and you will think it is all foolishness. But if you want to KNOW what the TRIUNE DEITY is ALL ABOUT, that CREATED US and everything that exists, including time, . . . . . here goes.
THE TOTALITY OF GOD, IS AN OMNIPRESENT SPIRIT, and each of the individual within that GODHEAD is also OMNIPRESENT. YES the Pre-incarnate CHRIST was also OMNIPRESENT. SO within that GODHEAD, because they are all OMNIPRESENT, they are COMMINGLED, and so is their MINDS. THEY ARE IN EACH OTHER, and a SINGULAR DEITY ALL AT THE SAME TIME. The BODY OF JESUS IS 100% MAN, and the SPIRIT OF JESUS IS 100% GOD, even though that Singular DIETY still remains OMNPRESENT.
2 Corinthians 5:19 (ESV)
19 that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation.
NOW I AM REALLY GOING TO BLOW YOUR MIND, AND IT IS THE ABSOLUTE TRUTH. The OMNIPRESENCE (EVERY PLACE IN THE UNIVERSE AND HEAVEN ALL AT THE SAME TIME), OF GOD IS NOT LIMITED TO JUST SPACE. HE IS ALSO IN EVERY SECOND OF TIME ALL AT THE SAME TIME.
HE DECLARES THE END FROM THE BEGINNING, BECAUSE HE IS ALL READY THERE. AT THE BEGINNING, AT THE END, AND EVERY SECOND OF TIME AS WE KNOW IT IN BETWEEN. HE WROTE ALL OF OUR NAMES IN THE BOOK OF LIFE BEFORE THE EARTH WAS FORMED, BECAUSE HE WAS THERE AT EACH CONVERSION AT THE SAME TIME. SPACE AND TIME ARE CREATED THINGS THE CREATOR OF EVERYTHING, THAT HE HAS MADE.
Isaiah 46:9-10 (ESV)
9 remember the former things of old; for I am God, and there is no other; I am God, and there is none like me,
10 declaring the end from the beginning and from ancient times things not yet done, saying, ‘My counsel shall stand, and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
IF YOU HAVE A GUT FEELING THAT I HAVE JUST DESCRIBED THE TRUTH TO YOU, HOW MUCH BIGGER IS GOD YOU NOW, THEN BEFORE I SHARED THIS WITH YOU? If you do not understand, then you will someday.
The LORD REVEALED that truth to me about 1987, before I moved to California from Nebraska. HE sent me like a missionary to start a PRISON MINISTRY in California, (unbeknownst to me at that time), at a NEW supermax Prison. I had no Bible College, but an enormous TRUST IN HIM. I KNEW HE WOULD GIVE ME ALL THE GUIDANCE to start that PRISON MINISTRY. Oh Yes HE DID. After I retired I spent about 3 years close to GRAND KIDS, then Two Years in Nevada, three miles from the TOP GUN SCHOOL, miss those Jets. I am now back home in Nebraska now. Trying to encourage the brethren not to limit what GOD CAN DO WITH YOU. I am 71, and getting older by the minute.
Now you do understand that heaven was created in the beginning, it did not exists prior to being created?
The reason I ask is because you make the statement 'every place in the universe and heaven' which suggests that you consider the universe and heaven to be two separate and distinct places. The expanse of space called heaven was created in the beginning according to Genesis 1:1.
Understanding that term 'created' in scripture has a specific meaning that is more narrowly defined than its common usage definition. In scripture the term 'create' infers bringing something into existence which had never existed before in either form and nature prior to its being created.
Thus, the term 'create' is not making something out of nothing, or creatio ex nihilo, or at least in accordance to the 'In-Kind' principle in the doctrine of Christ which tells us that all things originates from something, whether it be in nature or in form, or both, yet nothing comes from nothing.
The reason I ask is because you make the statement 'every place in the universe and heaven' which suggests that you consider the universe and heaven to be two separate and distinct places. The expanse of space called heaven was created in the beginning according to Genesis 1:1.
Understanding that term 'created' in scripture has a specific meaning that is more narrowly defined than its common usage definition. In scripture the term 'create' infers bringing something into existence which had never existed before in either form and nature prior to its being created.
Thus, the term 'create' is not making something out of nothing, or creatio ex nihilo, or at least in accordance to the 'In-Kind' principle in the doctrine of Christ which tells us that all things originates from something, whether it be in nature or in form, or both, yet nothing comes from nothing.
Notice the PLURAL on the work Heavens. HOW MANY ARE THERE ? ? ?
Let me show you:
2 Corinthians 12:2-4 (HCSB)
2 I know a man in Christ who was caught up into the third heaven 14 years ago. Whether he was in the body or out of the body, I don’t know, God knows.
3 I know that this man—whether in the body or out of the body I don’t know, God knows—
4 was caught up into paradise. He heard inexpressible words, which a man is not allowed to speak.
The First Heaven is our atmosphere. = Birds soared through the heaven.
The Second Heaven is the Universe. = Stars of Heaven.
The Third Heaven is the Eternal Dwelling place of GOD. = Where HIS THRONE IS.
Here is an indication that Angels are Created Beings like us:
Revelation 19:10 (ESV)
10 Then I fell down at his feet to worship him, but he said to me, “You must not do that! I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers who hold to the testimony of Jesus. Worship God.” For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.
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No, you do not understand, there COULD BE A 4th HEAVEN. In the BIBLE we only have the highlights of HISTORY, just like we only have the highlights of JESUS LIFE.
John 21:25 (HCSB)
25 And there are also many other things that Jesus did, which, if they were written one by one, I suppose not even the world itself could contain the books that would be written.
There is one heaven, that one being the expanse which was created in the beginning of this material world. The expanse is not called heaven, the expanse is heaven. And the heaven was created by the emergence of the expanse which created the body of space of our physical world. Thus, if one understands what the substance that created the expanse then they wouldn't say that it was created from nothing.
However, what you call the first heaven is the cloud that the LORD brought over the earth to cover it like a garment, called a firmament. The firmament occurred after heaven was created. Unlike the heaven that was created by the the expanse of space in the beginning, the firmament was made by the expanse of matter in space. While you are right that the open firmament called heaven is the expanse of matter above the earth in which fowl may fly in, it is important to note that in Genesis the firmament of the heaven always refers to the cloud that the LORD brought over the earth in the beginning.
As far as the third and fourth heaven you suggest, there isn't anything I can say.