Timelines: Bible Overview.

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#2
You are neglecting God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.

Knowing Jesus is to know God the Father. Hebrews 1:3 "The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.'

I have seen people who actually have what they think of as a bible that consists of only the Psalms and the NT. They ignore God the Father. Both are in both testaments.
 

Marilyn

Well-known member
Jul 27, 2021
1,120
244
63
#3
You are neglecting God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.

Knowing Jesus is to know God the Father. Hebrews 1:3 "The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.'

I have seen people who actually have what they think of as a bible that consists of only the Psalms and the NT. They ignore God the Father. Both are in both testaments.
Thank you Blik,

Yes, the Father and Holy Spirit are certainly at work throughout God`s word, however, I was just focusing on Christ being the center, the pre-eminent one by the Father and Holy Spirit. (Col. 1: 18)
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#4
I have seen people who actually have what they think of as a bible that consists of only the Psalms and the NT. They ignore God the Father. Both are in both testaments.
It is good to know all, but knowledge of Jesus from the Gospel of John is the center and all that is needed to get started if one seeks the aid of the Spirit. (IMHO.)
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,176
5,727
113
#5
You are neglecting God the Father and God the Holy Spirit.

Knowing Jesus is to know God the Father. Hebrews 1:3 "The Son is the radiance of God’s glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.'

I have seen people who actually have what they think of as a bible that consists of only the Psalms and the NT. They ignore God the Father. Both are in both testaments.
Both ?

“I and my Father are one.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s the revelation of the New Testament God became flesh and walked among us


“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The son is God the father and his spirit is the holy spirit

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

His name shall be called

“And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

unless we claim there are two Gods we should see that Jesus is our creator and he came from heaven to earth becoming a man being born as one of us.

god looked down from heaven

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The LORD is in his holy temple, The LORD's throne is in heaven: His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭

sand he saw mankind’s plight

The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭

He saw us lost without hope and it displeased him

“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, (as in one lord )and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: ( there was no man 👨 n existsnce who could intercede for mankind’s sin )

therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.

According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence. So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:15-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭45:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:10-12‬ ‭

the Lord said all these things then he came and made himself known to man

“Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12:3‬ ‭

“that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭14:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.”
‭‭Hosea‬ ‭13:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, ( son) one faith, one baptism, one God and (Father) of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”( by his spirit )
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There aren’t three gods , he is one the Holy Spirit is Gods living spirit the spirit of Jesus Christ the son

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:9‬ ‭

One spirit

“to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s his spirit not a seperate person

1 The same god the creator in the ot who no one saw ,

2 became the begotten son in the gospel ,

3then sent his spirit to believers
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#6
Both ?

“I and my Father are one.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

That’s the revelation of the New Testament God became flesh and walked among us


“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The son is God the father and his spirit is the holy spirit

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

His name shall be called

“And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

unless we claim there are two Gods we should see that Jesus is our creator and he came from heaven to earth becoming a man being born as one of us.

god looked down from heaven

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“The LORD is in his holy temple, The LORD's throne is in heaven: His eyes behold, his eyelids try, the children of men.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭11:4‬ ‭

sand he saw mankind’s plight

The LORD looked down from heaven upon the children of men, To see if there were any that did understand, And seek God. They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: There is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
‭‭Psalm‬ ‭14:2-3‬ ‭

He saw us lost without hope and it displeased him

“Yea, truth faileth; and he that departeth from evil maketh himself a prey: and the LORD saw it, (as in one lord )and it displeased him that there was no judgment. And he saw that there was no man, and wondered that there was no intercessor: ( there was no man 👨 n existsnce who could intercede for mankind’s sin )

therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. For he put on righteousness as a breastplate, and an helmet of salvation upon his head; and he put on the garments of vengeance for clothing, and was clad with zeal as a cloke.

According to their deeds, accordingly he will repay, fury to his adversaries, recompence to his enemies; to the islands he will repay recompence. So shall they fear the name of the LORD from the west, and his glory from the rising of the sun. When the enemy shall come in like a flood, the Spirit of the LORD shall lift up a standard against him.

And the Redeemer shall come to Zion, and unto them that turn from transgression in Jacob, saith the LORD.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭59:15-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me: that they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭45:5-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:10-12‬ ‭

the Lord said all these things then he came and made himself known to man

“Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭12:3‬ ‭

“that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth; and that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:10-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.”
‭‭Zechariah‬ ‭14:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Yet I am the LORD thy God from the land of Egypt, and thou shalt know no god but me: for there is no saviour beside me.”
‭‭Hosea‬ ‭13:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, ( son) one faith, one baptism, one God and (Father) of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”( by his spirit )
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There aren’t three gods , he is one the Holy Spirit is Gods living spirit the spirit of Jesus Christ the son

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:9‬ ‭

One spirit

“to whom God would make known what is the riches of the glory of this mystery among the Gentiles; which is Christ in you, the hope of glory:”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭1:27‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty. But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.”
‭‭2 Corinthians‬ ‭3:17-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

it’s his spirit not a seperate person

1 The same god the creator in the ot who no one saw ,

2 became the begotten son in the gospel ,

3then sent his spirit to believers
It is the Father who gave us the Son, It is the Father who gives the Son authority. John 5:26-27: For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. 27And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#7
The son is God the father and his spirit is the holy spirit
This is TOTALLY FALSE. So if you are not even clear about the relationship between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you should not be posting reams and reams of Scriptures until you get that straight.

You seem to appear to present Bible truth but instead you are presenting error from time to time. The proof of your error is found in the baptism of Christ (as well as other passages).

THE FATHER IS NEITHER THE SON NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
THE SON IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NEITHER THE SON NOR THE FATHER

Also notice that you do nor capitalize these words properly, and that is a necessity. All members of the Godhead must be capitalized.
 

montana123

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2021
858
286
63
#8
Thank you Blik,

Yes, the Father and Holy Spirit are certainly at work throughout God`s word, however, I was just focusing on Christ being the center, the pre-eminent one by the Father and Holy Spirit. (Col. 1: 18)
God calls things that have not happened yet, as though they already happened, for if it is a plan of God to happen in the future it is the same as it happened in the beginning for it will surely come to pass with no hindrance.

Which the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world, and the prophets blood shed from the foundation of the world, and all the works were finished from the foundation of the world.

Jesus is the beginning of creation even though He was not born until the future.

The plan of Jesus being born is the first plan for everything is created with that plan for creation to be successful, for Jesus is the Savior, and will judge the angels, and people.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word became flesh, and without the plan of God coming in the future in flesh He would of not created anything, for Jesus is the reason creation is successful to provide salvation, and to judge the angels, and people.

Jesus is the center of it all for God's creation, and people.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,176
5,727
113
#9
This is TOTALLY FALSE. So if you are not even clear about the relationship between the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, you should not be posting reams and reams of Scriptures until you get that straight.

You seem to appear to present Bible truth but instead you are presenting error from time to time. The proof of your error is found in the baptism of Christ (as well as other passages).

THE FATHER IS NEITHER THE SON NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
THE SON IS NEITHER THE FATHER NOR THE HOLY SPIRIT
THE HOLY SPIRIT IS NEITHER THE SON NOR THE FATHER

Also notice that you do nor capitalize these words properly, and that is a necessity. All members of the Godhead must be capitalized.
Yea brother I realize you often disagree with me it’s not a revelation …….

it seems like you can’t actually acknolwedge certain things

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

How many creators and Gods do you believe there are ?

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. ….And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1-3‬ ‭

how many people do you see there how many Gods ? How many creators ? Nd gown in the world can you not associate what’s being said right there with what’s being revealed right here ? It’s why we have two testaments lol

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. In him was life; and the life was the light of men. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. ( some still don’t recognize him )

He came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1-4, 10-14‬ ‭

brother how can you not understand that Jesus is God the one true and only God

“There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; one Lord, one faith, one baptism, one God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭4:4-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

How is God in us all ? Because he gave us his spirit the Holy Ghost the spirit of Jesus Christ our lord and God

Is your contention Nehemiah that Gods spirit is a different person from God ?

Or that there are three seperate holy spirits ?

“But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his. And if Christ be in you, the body is dead because of sin; but the Spirit is life because of righteousness. But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭8:9-11‬ ‭KJV‬‬

after you read that passage remember this part and it will make perfect sense

“I and my Father are one.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“If ye had known me, ye should have known my Father also: and from henceforth ye know him, and have seen him. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:7, 9‬ ‭

Are it make sense why there’s just the one holy spirit ? The one manifestation of God in the flesh ? And One God and father of all ?

But you can say “ the spirit of God “ “ the spirit of Christ “ the Holy Spirit “ and you aren’t talking about three different spirits but the same one like this again same spirit

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

God has taken the form of one of us it doesn’t make him a different person it means he has made himself known to us

when you reject that Jesus is the fulness of the godhead bodily it isn’t me that you have an issue with its scripture

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬


The father son and Holy Ghost is the full manifestation of the one true and only God Jesus is where God is made fully known in one person

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

You seem to have an issue with just simply accepting what’s already in the Bible beother sometimes but that’s just my own judgement

lol p.s. grammar and capitalization isn’t a concern of mine been obvious since I’ve been here i just giggle at that part to be honest …..the accusations ect idk it seems pat for the course in this forum so no offense taken on that part

i just think you would benefit by accepting what’s written down more as it’s plainly stated like the simple and basic truth that God is and has always been One father son and holy ghost are one not three
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,176
5,727
113
#10
It is the Father who gave us the Son, It is the Father who gives the Son authority. John 5:26-27: For as the Father has life in Himself, so also He has granted the Son to have life in Himself. 27And He has given Him authority to execute judgment, because He is the Son of Man.
Yes blick look who Jesus is before he came

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

look what Jesus said about where he was going just before he died for us

“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:5‬ ‭

now look who Jesus was after he rose

“And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now consider what Paul is saying here without controversy

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


This blick is Jesus before he became flesh

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And this is God made flesh and revealed to us all in plain sight

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then afterwards he was received up into glory before Jesus came he was saying what he would do from heaven through prophets

“Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God. Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:8-13‬ ‭

Then later he came forth and fulfilled what he said he would do becoming flesh

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now we have a man To intercede God became our high priest and intercessor because there was no man worthy to save us

Jesus is God made flesh who came to save us , and even now intercededs in our behalf being himself the right hand of God
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#11
Yes blick look who Jesus is before he came

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

look what Jesus said about where he was going just before he died for us

“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:5‬ ‭

now look who Jesus was after he rose

“And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now consider what Paul is saying here without controversy

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


This blick is Jesus before he became flesh

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And this is God made flesh and revealed to us all in plain sight

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then afterwards he was received up into glory before Jesus came he was saying what he would do from heaven through prophets

“Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God. Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:8-13‬ ‭

Then later he came forth and fulfilled what he said he would do becoming flesh

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now we have a man To intercede God became our high priest and intercessor because there was no man worthy to save us

Jesus is God made flesh who came to save us , and even now intercededs in our behalf being himself the right hand of God
This is all very good, it explains God the Father and God the Son. When there is a problem, it is when the Son is acknowledged, but the Father is not. It is a problem when people know the NT, and all about Christ but do not acknowledge. the Father. Christ and the Father are one, if anyone worships Christ but not the Father, they are idolators, for it is not the true God. It is making scripture of the NT and Psalms, ignoring all the rest of scripture and calling it a complete bible.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,176
5,727
113
#12
This is all very good, it explains God the Father and God the Son. When there is a problem, it is when the Son is acknowledged, but the Father is not. It is a problem when people know the NT, and all about Christ but do not acknowledge. the Father. Christ and the Father are one, if anyone worships Christ but not the Father, they are idolators, for it is not the true God. It is making scripture of the NT and Psalms, ignoring all the rest of scripture and calling it a complete bible.
Sister look back to what he said before
Look who the son is meant to be

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Of the increase of his government and peace there shall be no end, upon the throne of David, and upon his kingdom, to order it, and to establish it with judgment and with justice from henceforth even for ever. The zeal of the LORD of hosts will perform this.

The Lord sent a word into Jacob, and it hath lighted upon Israel.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6-8‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Do you see what I mean ? The son is all of those titles

his name shall be called

this title

“The everlasting Father, “

This title

Wonderful, Counsellor,

This title

The mighty God,

this title

The Prince of Peace.

if I’m saying your name I don’t say “ the blick “ I say your name ehoch you’ve presented as the name “ blick “ by which I address you

i might say of you “ you are a sister a Christ “ or I might say blick is “ the mother “ of some children

i might say “ this fellow is a prince or this man is a father . None of those are names the father isnt a name it’s a title , the Holy Ghost isn’t a name it’s a title , the son not a name it’s a title God those are all aspects of and titles and functions of the same God

anytime anyone on earth says “ Jesus os the son of God “ they are automatically acknolwedging God the father is inherant in the statement Jesus is the son of God this is to acknolwedge Christs humanity his divinity and eternal state is that of the father which he was before the beginning and returned to after he rose

The only way sister any Christian knows anything about the father son and holy ghost

because they have heard and believed what is found in Matthew mark Luke and John the gospels wrotten on the Bible someone maybe told three what’s in there or they read it or however they heard that message it came from the gospel this doctrine

“And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.( by inheritance )

Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of ( one name three titles ) the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭28:18-20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Have you ever noticed sister whose name they baptize in in the New Testament ?

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead ( father son Holy Ghost ) bodily. And ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power:”(Gods place and title )
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:8-10‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The new testement constently tells us that Jesus is the lord notice who’s name everything is done in it’s never “ the name “ the father or “in the name of the holy spirit “ it’s only ever the name of the lord Jesus this was established long ago
That’s there is only one lord and one God throughout the whole Bible “ the lord thy God is one Lord “

that’s being said here too but with more people nderersndong because Jesus had come forth

“For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:7‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The word came to earth and became one of us sister this doesn’t mean he isn’t still the father on heaven he became the man we needed to be saved and he taught us of the father son and Holy Ghost and showed us also the power of gods spirit in us men of which he became one but he also taught the doctrine of the father son and Holy Ghost

“And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.”
‭‭1 John‬ ‭5:20‬ ‭KJV‬‬

When we acknolwedge Jesus as Lord it’s because we believe he himself is and was and will be the lord almighty.

If we acknowledge the son we’re automatically acknolwedging the father and his spirit that’s what the gospel is all about

but all that is just my own opinion and thought of what seems to be plainly written doesnt mean I’m right more than you or anyone else this forum is just a place for discussing the Bible

Just an old fool here myself no more or less even though I say what I think , I don’t claim to be an official or any such thing just another feller
 

Nehemiah6

Senior Member
Jul 18, 2017
26,074
13,777
113
#13
“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:” ‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬
And what about this? Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Mt 28:19)

DO THE ACTUAL WORDS OF CHIRST COUNT FOR SOMETHING?
 

Blik

Senior Member
Dec 6, 2016
7,312
2,428
113
#14
Yes blick look who Jesus is before he came

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

look what Jesus said about where he was going just before he died for us

“And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.”
‭‭John‬ ‭17:5‬ ‭

now look who Jesus was after he rose

“And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now consider what Paul is saying here without controversy

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬


This blick is Jesus before he became flesh

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭KJV‬‬

And this is God made flesh and revealed to us all in plain sight

“In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.”
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 14‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Then afterwards he was received up into glory before Jesus came he was saying what he would do from heaven through prophets

“Bring forth the blind people that have eyes, and the deaf that have ears. Let all the nations be gathered together, and let the people be assembled: who among them can declare this, and shew us former things? let them bring forth their witnesses, that they may be justified: or let them hear, and say, It is truth. Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour.

I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, that I am God. Yea, before the day was I am he; and there is none that can deliver out of my hand: I will work, and who shall let it?”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭43:8-13‬ ‭

Then later he came forth and fulfilled what he said he would do becoming flesh

“So then after the Lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of God.”
‭‭Mark‬ ‭16:19‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Now we have a man To intercede God became our high priest and intercessor because there was no man worthy to save us

Jesus is God made flesh who came to save us , and even now intercededs in our behalf being himself the right hand of God
Jesus was from the beginning, Jesus is one with the Father.

There has never been any forgiveness without blood, and there was forgiveness given as soon as man first disobeyed God. At that time, the first thing God did was to give forgiveness of sin for those who asked. That is what the sacrificial system is all about,

When men sacrificed perfect animals, they were told it was for the forgiveness of sin. It was symbolic of Christ. When men sacrificied animals as a copy of pagan sacrifice to feed idols, God told them: Isaiah 1:11: “What good to Me is your multitude of sacrifices?” says the LORD. “I am full from the burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed cattle; I take no delight in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats"

As Christ said in Matt. 5:17: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Christ did not add to God's ways, he fulfilled them. What was taught through fleshly rituals, Christ fulfilled and gave the spirit of the Father. Christ gave us understanding of what was symbolic in the OT.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,176
5,727
113
#15
Jesus was from the beginning, Jesus is one with the Father.

There has never been any forgiveness without blood, and there was forgiveness given as soon as man first disobeyed God. At that time, the first thing God did was to give forgiveness of sin for those who asked. That is what the sacrificial system is all about,

When men sacrificed perfect animals, they were told it was for the forgiveness of sin. It was symbolic of Christ. When men sacrificied animals as a copy of pagan sacrifice to feed idols, God told them: Isaiah 1:11: “What good to Me is your multitude of sacrifices?” says the LORD. “I am full from the burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed cattle; I take no delight in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats"

As Christ said in Matt. 5:17: “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."

Christ did not add to God's ways, he fulfilled them. What was taught through fleshly rituals, Christ fulfilled and gave the spirit of the Father. Christ gave us understanding of what was symbolic in the OT.
“Jesus was from the beginning, Jesus is one with the Father. “

yea agreed

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.”
‭‭Genesis‬ ‭1:1‬ ‭

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made. He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. He came unto his own, and his own received him not.

But as many as received him, ( Jesus the lord not moses ) to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

And of his fulness have all we received, and grace for grace. For the law was given by Moses,

but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
‭‭John‬ ‭1:1, 3, 10-14, 16-18‬ ‭KJV‬‬

In other words

“And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭3:16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

sister I dont want to once again argue about Moses law you won’t accept the scripture regarding it all I was saying is Jesus is the one God manifest in the flesh he isn’t another person from the father they are one also Jesus spirit is the holy spirit also not another person God is one
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,176
5,727
113
#16
And what about this? Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: (Mt 28:19)

DO THE ACTUAL WORDS OF CHIRST COUNT FOR SOMETHING?
lol of course I quoted them he is t giving theee names brother he’s saying baptize in the name of the father , the son and the Holy Ghost
His disciples understood that in Jesus is the fulness of the godhead bodily

“For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.”
‭‭Colossians‬ ‭2:9‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The father son and holy ghost bodily I. One person our Lord

When Jesus said that why do you think they all baptized on one name only ????

“And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭10:48‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Its the same as that the lord is a title the name is Jesus

“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭2:38‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The gift of the Holy Ghost is his name the Holy Ghost ? Is Jesus name the Son ? Or is the name of the son Jesus ?

Nono e ever baptized in any name but Jesus because they understood who he is

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

a when you preface something with “the “ you are objectifying or making it a title the doesn’t preface a person but a title or thing the only name anyone ever baptized in is the name we’re given the only name we can be saved by

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭4:12‬ ‭KJV‬‬


“that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;”
‭‭Philippians‬ ‭2:10‬ ‭

The reason his name is so powerful is because itnis the name of the father son and Holy Ghost in one person bodily Jesus

“But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were baptized, both men and women.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭8:12‬ ‭

“Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.”
‭‭Acts‬ ‭3:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

show come no one ever says “ in tbe name of the holy spirit ? They are baptizing in the name of all three aspects of the the lord when they baptize in HIS NAME Not his titles but his name the personal name we’re given to believe in and call lord

“unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both their's and our's:”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭1:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

There are no records of anyone using “ the Holy Ghost “ as a name is there ? Maybe but I do t think I’ve ever read any such thing no name but Jesus I’ve ever read and a Bible that says he created all things then came to save us later becoming a man then returned to heaven afterwards then promised to return again later one day ….

one day Jesus will erase doubt of who he is

“that thou keep this commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ: which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of Lords; who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto;

whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom be honour and power everlasting. Amen.”
‭‭1 Timothy‬ ‭6:14-16‬ ‭KJV‬‬

I suppose knowing the name of the lord it’s just a question of how many lords are there ?

“Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:”
‭‭Deuteronomy‬ ‭6:4‬ ‭KJV‬‬

this is him Thomas saw and believed

“And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. Jesus saith unto him, Thomas, because thou hast seen me, thou hast believed: blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed.”
‭‭John‬ ‭20:28-29‬ ‭KJV‬‬


that’s you and me and all of us believers we just heard about it yet we believe

“So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.”
‭‭Romans‬ ‭10:17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:2‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“He therefore that ministereth to you the Spirit, and worketh miracles among you, doeth he it by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith?”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭3:5‬ ‭KJV‬‬

Brother the entire New Testament exalts exactly one name the holy spirit is his spirit that lived in him while on earth it’s why it wasn’t given to the church until Jesus died and rose

“(But this spake he of the Spirit, which they that believe on him should receive: for the Holy Ghost was not yet given; because that Jesus was not yet glorified.)”
‭‭John‬ ‭7:39‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And when Jesus had cried with a loud voice, he said, Father, into thy hands I commend my spirit: and having said thus, he gave up the ghost.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭23:46‬ ‭KJV‬‬

thats the spirit we receive Jesus spirit

“And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.”
‭‭Galatians‬ ‭4:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

The father son and Holy Ghost is how we can understand God and his Will fornus to be his children
 

oyster67

Senior Member
May 24, 2014
11,887
8,705
113
#17
Both ?

“I and my Father are one.”
‭‭John‬ ‭10:30‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Amen.

John 14:9
“Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”
 

montana123

Well-known member
Oct 9, 2021
858
286
63
#18
When Jesus said I and my Father are one He is saying that Him the man Christ Jesus and the Father are one which He is God manifest in the flesh.

1Co 8:6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him.

Eph 4:6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.

And that is because there is only one God the Father.

The Son shall be called the everlasting Father for there is only one God.

Not three persons in one God for when the Bible says one God it means one God.

People say God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit which then they are saying 3 Gods.

There is one God who is a Holy Spirit which is why the Spirit moved in creation, and Jesus was conceived by the Holy Spirit, and the Spirit dwells in the saints, and Father is a title for God, and the Son is the man Christ Jesus, which he is born of the seed of David according to the flesh, and when the fulness of the time had come God sent forth His Son made of a woman, made under the law.

They are the 3 relationships God has with His children designated by titles.

Father- Creator, and parent of the saints.

Son- God's visible relationship to the saints.

Holy Spirit- God's invisible relationship to the saints.

1. Jesus at the right hand of God.

God's right hand represents power, salvation, and wisdom, which God brought the Jews out of Egypt with a mighty right hand.

There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus.

Jesus said all power is given to me in heaven and earth.

There is one throne in heaven, and one who sits on that throne, which is the throne of God and the Lamb, God in the glorified body of the man Christ Jesus.

David said the LORD said unto my Lord sit at my right hand until I make your enemies your footstool.

Which Jesus at the right hand is a temporary role until His enemies are conquered.

Which the Bible says the Son must reign until all of His enemies are conquered, and then the Son shall submit to the Father that God may be all in all.

God exalted the man Christ Jesus to exercise the throne of power, be at His right hand for He is the mediator, until His enemies are conquered, and then the Son shall submit to the Father, stop exercising the throne of power, stop being at the right hand of power, that God may be all in all.

Jesus is the only person we will see in heaven which if you have seen Jesus then you have seen the Father.

2. Let us make man in our image.

Adam was made in the image of God.

Adam was made after the figure of Christ.

The image of God is the image of Christ.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word became flesh, which the Word is a plan of God to come in the future in flesh.

God had the plan to come in the future in flesh and created Adam after that image.

The let us make man in our image is a prophetic statement to the coming Son of God, the Father and the man Christ Jesus.

3. Baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.

Those are not names but titles, and the name is singular.

Jesus said He came in the Father's name.

In Hebrews is says the Son inherited the name from the Father.

The Holy Spirit comes in the name of Jesus.

The name of the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost is Jesus.

Which in the book of Acts Jews, Gentiles, and Samaritans were all baptized in Jesus' name.

And there is no other name under heaven whereby we are saved but the name Jesus.

And everything we do in word, or in action, is to be all done in Jesus' name.

So why would we baptize in the titles of God which the disciples baptized in Jesus' name.

There is no trinity but it came out because they could not understand the truth, and thought there was 3 persons in one God.

God said do not have any other gods before me.
 

Pilgrimshope

Well-known member
Sep 2, 2020
14,176
5,727
113
#19
Amen.

John 14:9
“Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?”

amen

“For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.”
‭‭Isaiah‬ ‭9:6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

notice the sons name isn’t only a title but is the one person all of titles are spoken about

everlasting father and also the prince of peace the father and the son also the counsellor also it’s being said there he is the mighty God .

It is repetitively witnessed throughout the law and prophets and epistles the claims Jesus made

“Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, And they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:22-23‬ ‭KJV‬‬

“And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in the law of Moses, and in the prophets, and in the psalms, concerning me.”
‭‭Luke‬ ‭24:44‬ ‭

turns out the Old Testament is a witness of the new