To anyone who disagrees with me

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
R

RichMan

Guest
#81

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,220
1,583
113
68
Brighton, MI
#82
My pastor has a great retirement income and will not accept any pay.
The more you speak the more you show your great ability to make stupid statements.
1. Custodian
National average salary: $23,540 per year

Primary duties: Church custodians clean and perform basic repairs between events, services and activities. They ensure the cleanliness of church buildings and grounds. Church custodians may also clean certain areas and rooms, such as the sanctuary, bathroom or meeting area.

Related: Learn About Being a Custodian

2. Music director
National average salary: $30,797 per year

Primary duties: Music directors at a church lead a choir and worship music ministry. They plan and organize all worship services with music and media. Music directors also perform a variety of administrative tasks, like establishing the music program's budget and holding office hours.

3. Church secretary
National average salary: $32,642 per year

Primary duties: Church secretaries handle the church office's daily operations. They also help pastors and church staff with administrative and clerical duties. Church secretaries answer phone calls, organize schedules, file paperwork and create programs for worship services.

4. Youth pastor
National average salary: $37,649 per year

Primary duties: Youth pastors serve as spiritual mentors to a church's youth group, which often comprises individuals aged 12-30. They oversee the youth ministry and encourage each student's spiritual growth. Youth pastors also offer counseling and support to these individuals and provide instruction that's aligned with their church's religion.

5. Receptionist
National average salary: $40,949 per year

Primary duties: A church receptionist performs clerical and administrative tasks at the front desk of the building. They answer phone calls and greet people as they enter. These receptionists may also perform other duties that involve computers, such as typing documents.

Related: Learn About Being a Receptionist

6. Worship leader
National average salary: $41,473 per year

Primary duties: Worship leaders lead the worship music portion of a church service. They assemble a worship team, organize rehearsals, create worship sets and team member schedules and attend staff meetings.

7. Pastor
National average salary: $42,586 per year

Primary duties: Pastors lead a church or congregation. They prepare weekly sermons, preach during worship services, counsel church members and interpret biblical scripture to their congregation.

Related: Learn About Being a Pastor

8. Associate pastor
National average salary: $43,397 per year

Primary duties: Associate pastors help a senior or lead pastor with duties related to the church's daily operations. They may manage church ministry events, help with church services or oversee church volunteers.

9. Chaplain
National average salary: $49,959 per year

Primary duties: Chaplains perform religious rites, lead worship services, offer counseling and provide advice on various spiritual and religious matters. They typically serve people in health care settings, as well as those at fire departments, police departments and prisons. Chaplains also oversee education programs, provide crisis intervention and create spiritual care plans for patients alongside health staff members.

10. Office manager
National average salary: $52,568 per year

Primary duties: Office managers in a church handle the daily operations of their congregation's office. They create budgets, manage payroll and record church income from various sources like donations and sales. These office managers also organize church events and meetings, handle correspondence and manage databases.

Related: Learn About Being an Office Manager

11. Accountant
National average salary: $55,904 per year

Primary duties: Church accountants maintain their congregation's financial documents. They record expenses, track contributions and review all church spending. Church accountants also obtain and record pledges, process financial information and deter fraud.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
2,176
113
#83
What books, dvds have you learned your theology, doctrines from? Publishers. I do not want to hear you only learned from the Bible, that seems pridfull to me.

That seems prideful to me... there fixed it for you.
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
2,176
113
#85
Many teachers, pastors, friends. The best lessons I have learned were from the Holy Spirit talking to my heart. A few examples for you:

I was really mad at God one time and I was walking to my car in the parking lot after work and I was saying to Him. I am not going to talk to you and I heard a chuckle followed by What are you doing now? I forget now what I was even mad about at the time but I started laughing too as He had me and I was still talking to Him.

I learned that He is big enough to take our being mad at him even though he doesn't deserve us being that way toward him.

I was on home plate ready to bat and I had a terrible record of hitting the ball down the first base line and I'd get out before I got there so I am praying Lord please help me to make it to first base. I had a pitiful hit that was kind of like a bunt but it wasn't on purpose they had the ball and I'm running to first base and I can hear the ball being thrown and they over threw the ball at first base and they yelled go to second base so I keep running and again I hear the ball being thrown and they over threw second base and they yelled keep running so I kept running and landed on third base off of my lousy hit.

I am standing on third base jumping up and down yelling thank you Lord I was so happy just to get on any base given my record. So the Lord taught me that day that there is nothing too insignificant to Him that if it is important to us it is also important to Him.

Last example was my daughters father who had not really contributed to her life moved over to the US with his family from Lebanon and wanted me to type a resume for him because I was an administrative assistant. I said I would help him find a place to do it for him but that I was not going to do it for him.

I was talking to God about it how unfair for him to expect me to do something for him when he hadn't taken care of his daughter the nerve of him and I ranted on and on to God about how it was too much to expect me to do it and he didn't deserve for me to do it for him...

I then heard God say to me neither do you. I then realized that I didn't deserve the love and sacrifice that God had done and given to me. Who was I to complain when I had done and expected so much from God when I didn't deserve it and I started looking at things a little differently.

So I would say that the Holy Spirit/God has a special way of getting lessons across to me and when I learn them they have stuck with me. God was also the one who explained salvation to me and I am so grateful that He took the time and has been so patient with me.

God has been my best teacher.
 

MessengerofTruth

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2022
688
435
63
#86
If I may share, I know that GOD has provided the 5-fold ministry to edify the saints.
I believe that we are and have been in the days prophesied in Ezekiel and Isaiah, where GOD pronounces a judgement against the shepherds that are not seeking His flock or feeding them sufficiently.
I have been through so much in the churches from one end of the spectrum to the other that I have learned the shepherds that are most prevalent these days are often matching the descriptions there in the prophets.
I have gleaned wisdom and help from many individuals that were unable to write a book, but had just as much to offer, sometimes more.
I am not saying that I do not read books, it's just not my first go to and there is no teacher that I could say that I am a follower of.
Some books that I appreciate (and be careful not to judge me if you've never read them) are The Book of Enoch, The Great Controversy (though I am not an SDA, nor have I learned from her other writings), Come Out of Her My People by an author in South Africa, The Anti-Nicene Fathers, And Lots of random history books. These are the most prominent in my mind but there are many more, I just can't think of them at the moment. I am open to critique on these if you are familiar with them.
 
Mar 4, 2020
8,614
3,691
113
#87
What books, dvds have you learned your theology, doctrines from? Publishers. I do not want to hear you only learned from the Bible, that seems pridfull to me.
For me, at first it was just going with whatever people told me. I had a foundation set on what people told me to believe then at some point there was a massive upheaval after I began reading the Bible.

Most well-known commentaries, preachers, and denominations contain major flaws, though all seem to have something useful that the others are lacking, though none of them are created equal.

The foundation should be the Bible, after that one should check what everyone else is saying. Keep the good, discard the bad. It’ll take good discernment, a lot of time, and effort to sort through it all.
 

MessengerofTruth

Well-known member
Dec 21, 2022
688
435
63
#88
If I may share, I know that GOD has provided the 5-fold ministry to edify the saints.
I believe that we are and have been in the days prophesied in Ezekiel and Isaiah, where GOD pronounces a judgement against the shepherds that are not seeking His flock or feeding them sufficiently.
I have been through so much in the churches from one end of the spectrum to the other that I have learned the shepherds that are most prevalent these days are often matching the descriptions there in the prophets.
I have gleaned wisdom and help from many individuals that were unable to write a book, but had just as much to offer, sometimes more.
I am not saying that I do not read books, it's just not my first go to and there is no teacher that I could say that I am a follower of.
Some books that I appreciate (and be careful not to judge me if you've never read them) are The Book of Enoch, The Great Controversy (though I am not an SDA, nor have I learned from her other writings), Come Out of Her My People by an author in South Africa, The Anti-Nicene Fathers, And Lots of random history books. These are the most prominent in my mind but there are many more, I just can't think of them at the moment. I am open to critique on these if you are familiar with them.
Also, the Bible first and foremost comparing all things with that as the plumb-line.
 

ResidentAlien

Well-known member
Apr 21, 2021
8,412
3,672
113
#89
I can see how it would be to the advantage of a professional Christian author if people didn't rely only on the Bible, but not necessarily to the end user.
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,592
3,618
113
#90
Why do those who claim to be taught by the Holy Spirit come up with contradicting opinions? Would it not be more honest to say, I have learned also from teachers that God has given to the Church?

Ephesians 4:11
Easy-to-Read Version
11 And that same Christ gave these gifts to people: He made some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to go and tell the Good News, and some to care for and teach God’s people.


Now what books other than the Bible have you read and learned from???
Yes God gave those gifts to people.. NOT other men.. So God gives a man Wisdom.. The Wisdom that counts..

When it comes to theology the only Book that matters is the Holy Bible..
 

Adstar

Senior Member
Jul 24, 2016
7,592
3,618
113
#91
It is prideful to think your intreptation of scripture is inspired by God.
You are SO SO SO SO Wrong... If a person is relying on Gods guidance they are Meek enough to admit their own intellect is not good enough to figure it all out by themselves...

God does not give wisdom to someone because they are an amazing / superior person.. God gives wisdom to people who ask for it in Faith.. One who asks for wisdom is not prideful because a prideful person never admits they need Gods help to understand scriptures..
 

JesusLives

Senior Member
Oct 11, 2013
14,554
2,176
113
#92
I have also enjoyed reading Christian writers Max Lucada and Joni Eareckson Tada. Love reading books from folks that have a relationship with God.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,220
1,583
113
68
Brighton, MI
#93
1Corinthians 2:13
Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
From context of your prooftext, it does not apply at all because they speak of "worldly wisdom", not Knowledge gained by those writting books about Theology or the Bible. Context Matters is King.


1 Corinthians 2

Easy-to-Read Version



My Message: Jesus Christ on the Cross
2 Dear brothers and sisters, when I came to you, I told you the secret truth of God. But I did not use fancy words or great wisdom. 2 I decided that while I was with you I would forget about everything except Jesus Christ and his death on the cross. 3 When I came to you, I was weak and shook with fear. 4 My teaching and my speaking were not with wise words that persuade people. But the proof of my teaching was the power that the Spirit gives. 5 I did this so that your faith would be in God’s power, not in human wisdom.
God’s Wisdom
6 We teach wisdom to people who are mature, but the wisdom we teach is not from this world. It is not the wisdom of the rulers of this world, who are losing their power. 7 But we speak God’s secret wisdom that has been hidden from everyone until now. God planned this wisdom for our glory. He planned it before the world began. 8 None of the rulers of this world understood this wisdom. If they had understood it, they would not have killed our great and glorious Lord on a cross. 9 But as the Scriptures say,
“No one has ever seen,
no one has ever heard,
no one has ever imagined
what God has prepared for those who love him.”
10 But God has shown us these things through the Spirit.
The Spirit knows all things. The Spirit even knows the deep secrets of God. 11 It is like this: No one knows the thoughts that another person has. Only the person’s spirit that lives inside knows those thoughts. It is the same with God. No one knows God’s thoughts except God’s Spirit. 12 We received the Spirit that is from God, not the spirit of the world. We received God’s Spirit so that we can know all that God has given us.
13 When we say this, we don’t use words taught to us by human wisdom. We use words taught to us by the Spirit. We use the Spirit’s words to explain spiritual truths. 14 People who do not have God’s Spirit do not accept the things that come from his Spirit. They think these things are foolish. They cannot understand them, because they can only be understood with the Spirit’s help. 15 We who have the Spirit are able to make judgments about all these things. But anyone without the Spirit is not able to make proper judgments about us. 16 As the Scriptures say,
“Who can know what is on the Lord’s mind?
Who is able to give him advice?”
But we have been given Christ’s way of thinking.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,220
1,583
113
68
Brighton, MI
#94
We live in a day and age where there are more easily accessible, Bible-related resources available than ever before, yet it seems to me that the harvest is perishing in the field as Christians just sit around getting more and more fed. That alone makes me question if what people are reading, watching, listening to, or feeding upon nowadays is really Bible-related at all. The harvest is plenteous, but the laborers certainly seem to be few.

Ecclesiastes 12:9
And moreover, because the preacher was wise, he still taught the people knowledge; yea, he gave good heed, and sought out, and set in order many proverbs.

Ecclesiastes 12:10
The preacher sought to find out acceptable words: and that which was written was upright, even words of truth.

Ecclesiastes 12:11
The words of the wise are as goads, and as nails fastened by the masters of assemblies, which are given from one shepherd.

Ecclesiastes 12:12
And further, by these, my son, be admonished: of making many books there is no end; and much study is a weariness of the flesh.

Ecclesiastes 12:13
Let us hear the conclusion of the whole matter: Fear God, and keep his commandments: for this is the whole duty of man.

Ecclesiastes 12:14
For God shall bring every work into judgment, with every secret thing, whether it be good, or whether it be evil.
From my experence of worship in the park this last summer, there were many labors there, well over 30,000 came to Jesus and are still growing in local churches.

Ecclesiastes 12

Final Words of Advice
9 The Teacher was very wise. He used his wisdom to teach the people. He very carefully studied and arranged[d] many wise teachings. 10 The Teacher tried very hard to find the right words, and he wrote the teachings that are true and dependable.


11 Words from the wise are like sharp goads. When these sayings are written down and saved, they can be used to guide people, just as a shepherd uses a sharp stick to make his sheep go the right way. 12 So, son, study these sayings, but be careful about other teachings. People are always writing books, and too much study will make you very tired.

13-14 Now, what should we learn from everything that is written in this book?[e] The most important thing a person can do is to respect God and obey his commands, because he knows about everything people do—even the secret things. He knows about all the good and all the bad, and he will judge people for everything they do.

Biblical Scholars who write books comes under the label of the Wise. Their purpose is to help believers understand Scripture. The others are the low level pop authors who want to teach something that does not line up with scripture. And, we both brother, friend know who they are when we read on the back of a book who endorses their book.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,220
1,583
113
68
Brighton, MI
#95
If I may share, I know that GOD has provided the 5-fold ministry to edify the saints.
I believe that we are and have been in the days prophesied in Ezekiel and Isaiah, where GOD pronounces a judgement against the shepherds that are not seeking His flock or feeding them sufficiently.
I have been through so much in the churches from one end of the spectrum to the other that I have learned the shepherds that are most prevalent these days are often matching the descriptions there in the prophets.
I have gleaned wisdom and help from many individuals that were unable to write a book, but had just as much to offer, sometimes more.
I am not saying that I do not read books, it's just not my first go to and there is no teacher that I could say that I am a follower of.
Some books that I appreciate (and be careful not to judge me if you've never read them) are The Book of Enoch, The Great Controversy (though I am not an SDA, nor have I learned from her other writings), Come Out of Her My People by an author in South Africa, The Anti-Nicene Fathers, And Lots of random history books. These are the most prominent in my mind but there are many more, I just can't think of them at the moment. I am open to critique on these if you are familiar with them.
Aside: Ellen White copied a lot in her books from other authors. Even SDA Scholars have documented what was copied.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,220
1,583
113
68
Brighton, MI
#96
For me, at first it was just going with whatever people told me. I had a foundation set on what people told me to believe then at some point there was a massive upheaval after I began reading the Bible.

Most well-known commentaries, preachers, and denominations contain major flaws, though all seem to have something useful that the others are lacking, though none of them are created equal.

The foundation should be the Bible, after that one should check what everyone else is saying. Keep the good, discard the bad. It’ll take good discernment, a lot of time, and effort to sort through it all.
We both know our bedrock is Christ, foundation built on top of that the prophets, rest of OT and Apostles.
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,220
1,583
113
68
Brighton, MI
#97
Yes God gave those gifts to people.. NOT other men.. So God gives a man Wisdom.. The Wisdom that counts..

When it comes to theology the only Book that matters is the Holy Bible..
According to James, God gives wisdom to any believer who asks for it. Many Bible Scholars have been given wisdom from God and use it when writing their books. Some of the early Christian Movies were unrealistic. In one I remember, a guy on hard luck gets saved, gets a new 68 Mustang, a pentehouse, 3 or 4 new girlfriends, wins the lottery from that mailorder company...
 

TheLearner

Well-known member
Jan 14, 2019
8,220
1,583
113
68
Brighton, MI
You are SO SO SO SO Wrong... If a person is relying on Gods guidance they are Meek enough to admit their own intellect is not good enough to figure it all out by themselves...

God does not give wisdom to someone because they are an amazing / superior person.. God gives wisdom to people who ask for it in Faith.. One who asks for wisdom is not prideful because a prideful person never admits they need Gods help to understand scriptures..
The ongoing context of my statement is when two people claims that their interpretation is inspired by God and they do or do not conflict, but often do.

James 1
Easy-to-Read Version
1 Greetings from James, a servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ.

To God’s people[a] who are scattered all over the world.

Faith and Wisdom
2 My brothers and sisters, you will have many kinds of trouble. But this gives you a reason to be very happy. 3 You know that when your faith is tested, you learn to be patient in suffering. 4 If you let that patience work in you, the end result will be good. You will be mature and complete. You will be all that God wants you to be.

5 Do any of you need wisdom? Ask God for it. He is generous and enjoys giving to everyone. So he will give you wisdom. 6 But when you ask God, you must believe. Don’t doubt him. Whoever doubts is like a wave in the sea that is blown up and down by the wind. 7-8 People like that are thinking two different things at the same time. They can never decide what to do. So they should not think they will receive anything from the Lord.

True Riches
9 Believers who are poor should be glad that God considers them so important. 10 Believers who are rich should be glad when bad things happen that humble them. Their riches won’t keep them from disappearing as quickly as wildflowers. 11 As the sun rises and gets hotter, its heat dries up the plants, and the flowers fall off. The flowers that were so beautiful are now dead. That’s how it is with the rich. While they are still making plans for their business, they will die.

Temptation Does Not Come From God
12 Great blessings belong to those who are tempted and remain faithful! After they have proved their faith, God will give them the reward of eternal life. God promised this to all people who love him. 13 Whenever you feel tempted to do something bad, you should not say, “God is tempting me.” Evil cannot tempt God, and God himself does not tempt anyone. 14 You are tempted by the evil things you want. Your own desire leads you away and traps you. 15 Your desire grows inside you until it results in sin. Then the sin grows bigger and bigger and finally ends in death.

16 My dear brothers and sisters, don’t be fooled about this. 17 Everything good comes from God. Every perfect gift is from him. These good gifts come down from the Father who made all the lights in the sky. But God never changes like the shadows from those lights. He is always the same. 18 God decided to give us life through the true message he sent to us. He wanted us to be the most important of all that he created.

Listening and Obeying
19 My dear brothers and sisters, always be more willing to listen than to speak. Keep control of your anger. 20 Anger does not help you live the way God wants. 21 So get rid of everything evil in your lives—every kind of wrong you do. Be humble and accept God’s teaching that is planted in your hearts. This teaching can save you.

22 Do what God’s teaching says; don’t just listen and do nothing. When you only sit and listen, you are fooling yourselves. 23 Hearing God’s teaching and doing nothing is like looking at your face in the mirror 24 and doing nothing about what you saw. You go away and immediately forget how bad you looked. 25 But when you look into God’s perfect law that sets people free, pay attention to it. If you do what it says, you will have God’s blessing. Never just listen to his teaching and forget what you heard.

The True Way to Worship God
26 You might think you are a very religious person. But if your tongue is out of control, you are fooling yourself. Your careless talk makes your offerings to God worthless. 27 The worship that God wants is this: caring for orphans or widows who need help and keeping yourself free from the world’s evil influence. This is the kind of worship that God accepts as pure and good.