To the Godless American Church...

[Galatians2-20]

Yea I think that's the thing that gets into my crawl a bit..the guy who started this thread is from the Phil ..I think?
The only honesty ministries over there I could find to help the poor, was ministries based in the States. Every ministry I tried to work with from there seemed to be trying to run a con game. I know this is not true in every situation and the point is that there is no country that is in a position to lecture the US in godliness, that I have seen?

I am from the United States. Born & raised. The Bible college that I attended does a lot of work in the Philippines and it is my hope to spend some time there, Lord willing, in the near future seeing as my girlfriend is originally from there and would like me to meet her family.

I have been completely honest with you yet you question my character. What I have said that offends you so much? Would I be correct to assume that there is a disagreement on a doctrinal level?

By the way, I have been a member of Christian Chat off & on since 2007. The owner and those who have been mods for many years know who I am. I find it odd that you would bash on the Philippines when the owner of this website is an American living in the Philippines & married to a Filipina.

 

[Galatians2-20]

The OP says that he is an American, so I'll leave it at that. I'm pretty sure that Tim Tebow's parents were missionaries to the Phillipines and that he helps run an orphanage over there, but don't quote me on that. In any case, the churches worldwide need to repent of many things and I'm wondering why the American church was singled out...especially since people from all different countries post on this forum.

The reason is listed in first few sentences of my initial post. It is clear that our nation has been given over to a reprobate mind. I've mention this before but I will say it again; homosexuals in very powerful positions throughout our nation have declared war on the American church and they are using the liberal media to attack Christian "conservatism" making every effort to make Christian who oppse the gay agenda look like bigots. They have even gone so far as to use race as a weapon in attempt to turn African Americans against white conservative Christians.

This is a defining moment for the American Church. It is obvious that most Churches wish to ignore what is going on and go about their business as ussual. It is these Churches that will fall prey to the liberal agenda that has taken over our country. As for the rest us, we must pray in order to recieve guidance from above concerning these matters in otder to be as "gentle as doves yet as wise as serpents".

 

[JesusistheChrist]

The reason is listed in first few sentences of my initial post. It is clear that our nation has been given over to a reprobate mind. I've mention this before but I will say it again; homosexuals in very powerful positions throughout our nation have declared war on the American church and they are using the liberal media to attack Christian "conservatism" making every effort to make Christian who oppse the gay agenda look like bigots. They have even gone so far as to use race as a weapon in attempt to turn African Americans against white conservative Christians.

This is a defining moment for the American Church. It is obvious that most Churches wish to ignore what is going on and go about their business as ussual. It is these Churches that will fall prey to the liberal agenda that has taken over our country. As for the rest us, we must pray in order to recieve guidance from above concerning these matters in otder to be as "gentle as doves yet as wise as serpents".

I totally agree with the above, but, again, such isn't limited to the American churches. The whole world lies in wickedness and that extends far beyond the borders of the USA.

 

[Galatians2-20]

I totally agree with the above, but, again, such isn't limited to the American churches. The whole world lies in wickedness and that extends far beyond the borders of the USA.

Very true, but I am an American living in America amongst Americans thus the reason that my letter was written to the American Church. I hope that clears things up a little.

I do find it strange that people are making a big deal over the fact that the flag of the Philippines appears on my posts. I'm sure they would find it very strange to see a Scott Irish / Native American wearing a t-shirt with the Filipino flag on it, which I often do.

To be honest, I'm beginning to wonder if race is an underlying issue hear instead of national pride. I certainly hope not.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Very true, but I am an American living in America amongst Americans thus the reason that my letter was written to the American Church. I hope that clears things up a little.

I do find it strange that people are making a big deal over the fact that the flag of the Philippines appears on my posts. I'm sure they would find it very strange to see a Scott Irish / Native American wearing a t-shirt with the Filipino flag on it, which I often do.

To be honest, I'm beginning to wonder if race is an underlying issue hear instead of national pride. I certainly hope not.

I can assure you that I have no problem with either race or national pride and I personally believe this nation to be one of the most wicked nations upon the face of the earth in that it holds great sway over other nations in certain regards; especially in relation to the alleged "spreading of the gospel" which is oftentimes anything but the gospel.

 

[Mitspa]

I am from the United States. Born & raised. The Bible college that I attended does a lot of work in the Philippines and it is my hope to spend some time there, Lord willing, in the near future seeing as my girlfriend is originally from there and would like me to meet her family.

I have been completely honest with you yet you question my character. What I have said that offends you so much? Would I be correct to assume that there is a disagreement on a doctrinal level?

By the way, I have been a member of Christian Chat off & on since 2007. The owner and those who have been mods for many years know who I am. I find it odd that you would bash on the Philippines when the owner of this website is an American living in the Philippines & married to a Filipina.

Look the truth is the truth no matter who owns what or who knows who...The fact is your representing yourself as being from another nation trying to lecture American believers, to which many on this thread have already told you seems like an attack on American believers as if some other group in some other nation is doing better? Where is that other nation, its FOR SURE NOT the one your trying represent. I know this as a very sad fact.

 

[Mitspa]

Well, I'm glad that you recognize what the correct translation is, so hopefully you'll use it in the future. How does this make your point more evident though? If you let scripture interpret itself, especially by comparing Paul's words in his epistles, then it's rather obvious that Paul oftentimes used the word "flesh" interchangeably with "law", "circumcision" and "bondage". IOW, God's law is spiritual, as Paul himself taught, but carnal man with only a circumcision in the foreskin of his flesh is powerless to obey either God Who is Spirit or any spiritual law and he will therefore be in bondage to sin. For the man who is born again, however, or for the man who is circumcised in the heart or spirit, it is a totally different ballgame. In Romans chapter 7, Paul was employing the historical present in the Greek while he spoke of his condition as an unsaved man with only a circumcision is his flesh. This portion of scripture should never be twisted to foist the totally unscriptural "dual nature" upon Christians as if they somehow have two different natures which are competing against each other. If you want me to cite some examples of how Paul truly used the aforementioned words interchangeably, then I'll gladly do so.

Go back and read the post and the context of why I made the statement ...then you will understand why its strengthens my point.

 

[Mitspa]

I can assure you that I have no problem with either race or national pride and I personally believe this nation to be one of the most wicked nations upon the face of the earth in that it holds great sway over other nations in certain regards; especially in relation to the alleged "spreading of the gospel" which is oftentimes anything but the gospel.

Have you even been to any other countries? Do you folks really think America is the most ungodly nation or that Christians here are further from the truth than in other nations? I suggest you do some research ...

 

[Mitspa]

Hate America...hate the American church...ok

 

[just-us-2]

That's funny; you're condemning someone for having an attitude with an attitude of your own, so in a nutshell, you're part of the problem as well. And you don't need to tell me I have an attitude because I already know, but glory be to God, His grace is sufficient, and He's transforming my heart from tare to wheat, even as I write this.

That said, though the OP speaks some truth, I disagree with the broad-stroke totality of what he shares. The American church is not godless, but there is need for improvement. No doubt many hearts need transformed, but transformation must have love as its modus operandi, not condemnation from a sanctimonious perch.

I won’t deny that I “have an attitude” but I don’t recall ever being told that before. Interesting.

As you so boldly told me that I am part of the problem, I say to you: your words, “glory be to God, His grace is sufficient, and He's transforming my heart from tare to wheat, even as I write this” is the mindset that people have that causes the disastrous situation in our churches. It implies that we can sin and say oops, but that’s okay God forgives us. It is a variation of the excuse people use to be nasty in one way or another, for example: ‘I just have a really short fuse – it’s just the way I am’…and that makes it okay not to exercise and develop our self-control. We can be rude and hateful because that is just how we are.

One other thing that I have little different take on than you and most everybody in here, is, “No doubt many hearts need transformed, but transformation must have love as its modus operandi, not condemnation from a sanctimonious perch.” While I do agree with the fact as you stated that many hearts need to be transformed, and that love should be the motivation for that, I wholeheartedly believe and will never change my mind because God has proven it to me: the love that must feed the transformation is a love and devotion to our Heavenly Father as His 21[SUP]st[/SUP] century disciples…disciples in the true sense of the word, as Peter, Andrew, John and the others were when Christ walked this earth…not the watered down perception that is so common nowadays.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Go back and read the post and the context of why I made the statement ...then you will understand why its strengthens my point.

Here is what I'm addressing:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/119657-godless-american-church-5.html#post2225226

All that religious nonsense to deny what the bible clearly teaches..

Ro 7:15 For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16 If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17 Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18 For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19 For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.

Eph 2:3 Among whom also we all had our conversation in times past in the lusts of our flesh, fulfilling the desires of the flesh and of the mind; and were by nature the children of wrath, even as others.

In the Ephesians quote, Paul said that we "were" by nature the children of wrath. Those who have been born again have a new nature. In the Romans quote, Paul used the historical present to describe his condition prior to being saved, so if you're trying to pass off some sort of "dualism" in that Christians allegedly have some sort of "dual natures" which are constantly at odds with each other, then you are in error. The conflict between the flesh and the Spirit is a conflict which ought to only exist in those who haven't yet been born again. Again, those with merely an outward circumcision in the foreskin of their flesh can never truly obey either a Spirit God or a spiritual law and that is what Paul was actually addressing in Romans chapter 7 and Galatians chapter 5.

 

[Galatians2-20]

... especially in relation to the alleged "spreading of the gospel" which is often times anything but the gospel.

We are in total agreement there!

 

[Galatians2-20]

Look the truth is the truth no matter who owns what or who knows who...The fact is your representing yourself as being from another nation trying to lecture American believers, to which many on this thread have already told you seems like an attack on American believers as if some other group in some other nation is doing better? Where is that other nation, its FOR SURE NOT the one your trying represent. I know this as a very sad fact.

Mitspa, if you would take a few seconds to look at my profile, it says that I'm an American living in Western North Carolina and it has said that since I created that profile a few years back. Not once have I ever claimed to be anything other than I am.

Please do not take the following question as a personal attack because it is not meant to be. I am simply asking a question, nothing more. If I come come across as being too blunt then I appologize. Here goes: How am I at fault for you and others making wrong assumptions about me when you did not take the time to do one minute of research before allowing yourself to jump to false conclusions? That, my friend, is a sad fact.

 

[Galatians2-20]

Anyways, I am done with is conversation. One of the reasons why I do not frequent this site as much as I once did is that fact that so many here are simply looking for a reason to squabble and argue over the same tired old subjects year after year.

Most are here to push or defend their personal, doctrinal, & denomintional beliefs. Few are here to truly seek the heart of God. There is very little desire for the presence of God and spiritual growth. That is evident by their argumentative nature. That is also a sad fact.

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Anyways, I am done with is conversation. One of the reasons why I do not frequent this site as much as I once did is that fact that so many here are simply looking for a reason to squabble and argue over the same tired old subjects year after year.

Most are here to push or defend their personal, doctrinal, & denomintional beliefs. Few are here to truly seek the heart of God. There is very little desire for the presence of God and spiritual growth. That is evident by their argumentative nature. That is also a sad fact.

Sad, but to a rather large degree, true. I just returned to the forum today, but part of the reason why I left was due to my own need to spend more quality time with God for my own growth, so I'm not just pointing the finger at others. Anyhow, there are some people here who truly seem to be seeking after the heart of God, so you might want to stick around a bit.

 

[Shoshanah]

Anyways, I am done with is conversation. One of the reasons why I do not frequent this site as much as I once did is that fact that so many here are simply looking for a reason to squabble and argue over the same tired old subjects year after year.

Most are here to push or defend their personal, doctrinal, & denomintional beliefs. Few are here to truly seek the heart of God. There is very little desire for the presence of God and spiritual growth. That is evident by their argumentative nature. That is also a sad fact.

I understand your feelings on that but it would be really good to have more good honest truth taught and discussed. Some of us really enjoy learning in a peaceful atmosphere. I have already learned how to use the "ignore" button!

 

[JesusistheChrist]

Have you even been to any other countries? Do you folks really think America is the most ungodly nation or that Christians here are further from the truth than in other nations? I suggest you do some research ...

I've been to Italy and Canada. As far as research is concerned, I'm presently of the belief that the USA may very well be "the false prophet" of Revelation. "The false prophet" is a "beast" and "beasts" are kingdoms in prophecy and the descriptors of this "beast" or kingdom sound just like the good ole USA to me.

 

[Mitspa]

Here is what I'm addressing:

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/119657-godless-american-church-5.html#post2225226

In the Ephesians quote, Paul said that we "were" by nature the children of wrath. Those who have been born again have a new nature. In the Romans quote, Paul used the historical present to describe his condition prior to being saved, so if you're trying to pass off some sort of "dualism" in that Christians allegedly have some sort of "dual natures" which are constantly at odds with each other, then you are in error. The conflict between the flesh and the Spirit is a conflict which ought to only exist in those who haven't yet been born again. Again, those with merely an outward circumcision in the foreskin of their flesh can never truly obey either a Spirit God or a spiritual law and that is what Paul was actually addressing in Romans chapter 7 and Galatians chapter 5.

What? that's not what was being discussed between me and the other member, when you got into the conversation. So again go back and look at the context of our discussion and you will see why I made the point...not to suggest that a believer is under the control of sin by nature, but that a believer still has the flesh as scripture clearly describes.

 

[Mitspa]

I've been to Italy and Canada. As far as research is concerned, I'm presently of the belief that the USA may very well be "the false prophet" of Revelation. "The false prophet" is a "beast" and "beasts" are kingdoms in prophecy and the descriptors of this "beast" or kingdom sound just like the good ole USA to me.

Oh so you believe the USA is more ungodly not because of any evidence, but it fits your end-time doctrine...come on!

 

[JesusistheChrist]

What? that's not what was being discussed between me and the other member, when you got into the conversation. So again go back and look at the context of our discussion and you will see why I made the point...not to suggest that a believer is under the control of sin by nature, but that a believer still has the flesh as scripture clearly describes.

And the flesh is merely flesh and nothing more. Again, Paul was referring to a fleshly circumcision which avails nothing.