Tongues Again???

[trofimus]

i quoted from an article about it, not the study its self... so didn't violate the rule.

What rule? Studies are to be quoted. Quote for us the place where is the comparison of the nuns, monks and glosolalia practice

Its time for me to go to bed. Later.

 

[RickyZ]

Some charismatics claim that the gift of tongues are the heavenly tongues of angels. In that case there is no reason for them to cease in heaven.

So the claims:

a) tongues are the heavenly tongues of angels, not existing human languages
b) they will cease when Christ will come

are self-refuting, IMHO.

I don't believe tongues are the language of angels.

When man was created and as his numbers grew he had a singular spiritual language. This singular language continued until the tower of Babel. When the Christ/Messiah returns to restore all that man lost in the fall, one of the things that will be restored is that singular spiritual language. I believe that what we know now as tongues is our ability to tap into that future restored language now thru the Holy Spirit. And that when Christ returns, tongues won't actually cease, they will just cease to be known as tongues, since at that time they will be our native language.

 

[wanderer6059]

What rule? Studies are to be quoted. Quote for us the place where is the comparison of the nuns, monks and glosolalia practice

Its time for me to go to bed. Later.

like i said, my school has the study not me, get it yourself. ;D

 

[notuptome]

I don't believe tongues are the language of angels.

When man was created and as his numbers grew he had a singular spiritual language. This singular language continued until the tower of Babel. When the Christ/Messiah returns to restore all that man lost in the fall, one of the things that will be restored is that singular spiritual language. I believe that what we know now as tongues is our ability to tap into that future restored language now thru the Holy Spirit. And that when Christ returns, tongues won't actually cease, they will just cease to be known as tongues, since at that time they will be our native language.

According to Joel tongues will resume when Christ returns and sets up the millennial kingdom. There is that inconvenient gap in tongues and prophecy and knowledge till then.

If we are going to speculate I suggest that the one language that will be spoken in the new kingdom will be Hebrew.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

like i said, my school has the study not me, get it yourself. ;D

Praying in tongues is like having a lobotomy. No activity in the frontal lobe. Don't know that I would publish that around if I were a Pentecostal. Just saying it could be interpreted in a less that commendable light.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[RickyZ]

Show me one scripture that says we will speak Hebrew.

And you know, if you could just get your frontal lobe to shut up for a minute you might understand what it means to yield your mind to the Holy Spirit.

 

[jb]

I did not say "no one", but "virtually did not exist".

You can see tongues and prophecies all around the first church, in the practice of Christians and in their writings.
But it disappears in the second century.

Maybe there was some sect or individual Christian who practiced the glosolalia, but it disappeared from the Church as such.

Historically it corresponds with the completion and acceptance of the biblical canon. Coincidence?

WHAT UTTER NONSENSE!

It's a pity you can't divide the Word of God correctly because of your spiritual myopia!

You rubbish the spiritual gifts which cost the Lord Jesus SO MUCH to get and give to the Church! Acts 2v23-33, 4v7-11

 

[presidente]

You know full well I am referring to the common practice of tongues in todays church. This is as I have been stressing not a biblical practice. There are no such thing as ecstatic utterances.

You seem to be flip flopping. In the last post, you seemed to be promoting the idea that modern tongues are 'ecstatic utterances.' That is a terrible description of speaking in tongues, since one does not have to be ecstatic to speak in tongues.

There are only human languages. That was the case in the apostolic church and right through history up to today.

You just promote your ideas rather than sticking with the scriptures. Paul wrote 'Though I speak with th tongues of men and of angels." And if you take that as 'If" rather than "though" you should still allow for the possibility that he speaks tongues of angels, or that such languages exist

You force in the spirit to be in the Holy Spirit but that is not the case in these contested verses.

No, I don't. I did not make that argument in my post and there is no indication that I think that. You are just making stuff up again.

Tongues today are by the will of man not the will of God. They are not genuine.

Such foolish, broad-sweeping statements.

The only tongues that are to be allowed, biblically, are those where a human language is spoken and interpreted or understood by a speaker of that language.

Paul suggested that he might speak in 'tongues of angels' so that first part has no Biblical basis. The Bible never requires that 'speaking in tongues' be in a human language. And the second part is just more doctrine you just made up. Speaking in tongues is a supernatural gift. Interpretation of tongues is a supernatural gift. I Corinthians 14:13 says to let him who speaks in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. I speak another language and I don't have to pray to be able to interpret it, since I can interpret using my knowledge of both languages. An interpreter of tongues needs a gift of the Spirit to be able to interpret, not natural knowledge of the language.

Things have not changed from the church of Corinth till today.

If you really believed that, you would not oppose the doctrine Paul taught on spiritual gifts in I Corinthians. You would not oppose 'Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge' and '...covet to prophesy and forbid not to speak with tongues.'

 

[notuptome]

Show me one scripture that says we will speak Hebrew.

And you know, if you could just get your frontal lobe to shut up for a minute you might understand what it means to yield your mind to the Holy Spirit.

I clearly stated that it was simply speculation. You what you do all the time without regard to what the scripture actually teaches.

Being submitted and Spirit filled is not kicking it into neutral and letting it roll which always takes a down hill course.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[presidente]

According to Joel tongues will resume when Christ returns and sets up the millennial kingdom. There is that inconvenient gap in tongues and prophecy and knowledge till then.

What a messed up and convoluted way of interpreting the Bible. There is no way to get that out of I Corinthians 13. If it is done away, why would youw ant to revive it.

Btw, how do the two witnesses prophesy?

You make no sense when it comes to this issue.

 

[jb]

WHAT UTTER NONSENSE!

It's a pity you can't divide the Word of God correctly because of your spiritual myopia!

You rubbish the spiritual gifts which cost the Lord Jesus SO MUCH to get and give to the Church! Acts 2v23-33, Eph 4v7-11

Correction made in blue bold.

 

[notuptome]

You seem to be flip flopping. In the last post, you seemed to be promoting the idea that modern tongues are 'ecstatic utterances.' That is a terrible description of speaking in tongues, since one does not have to be ecstatic to speak in tongues.

Accuse if you wish. I endeavor to draw distinctions by comparing what was the practice in the apostolic church with todays modern charismatic Pentecostal church. They are not even close in practice and biblical doctrine. We both know that none of the charismatic Pentecostal groups agree on which is which.

You just promote your ideas rather than sticking with the scriptures. Paul wrote 'Though I speak with th tongues of men and of angels." And if you take that as 'If" rather than "though" you should still allow for the possibility that he speaks tongues of angels, or that such languages exist

Simply put most scholars conclude that Paul is using hyperbole and not suggesting the existence of or use of angelic languages. There is not one place in scripture where men or angels spoke in any angelic language. Always spoken languages were human languages.

No, I don't. I did not make that argument in my post and there is no indication that I think that. You are just making stuff up again.

If you say so.

Such foolish, broad-sweeping statements.

You are at liberty to demonstrate from scripture where I'm wrong. Otherwise I'm not the one acting foolishly.

Paul suggested that he might speak in 'tongues of angels' so that first part has no Biblical basis. The Bible never requires that 'speaking in tongues' be in a human language. And the second part is just more doctrine you just made up. Speaking in tongues is a supernatural gift. Interpretation of tongues is a supernatural gift. I Corinthians 14:13 says to let him who speaks in an unknown tongue pray that he may interpret. I speak another language and I don't have to pray to be able to interpret it, since I can interpret using my knowledge of both languages. An interpreter of tongues needs a gift of the Spirit to be able to interpret, not natural knowledge of the language.

Classic new age mysticism. It's beyond natural so it cannot be impeached. No sir it is your skewed interpretation that make is mystical and not biblical. This is the conflict that you force on the scriptures. Tongues are human languages so the speaking of and the comprehension of them is profitable in the service of the gospel.

If you really believed that, you would not oppose the doctrine Paul taught on spiritual gifts in I Corinthians. You would not oppose 'Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge' and '...covet to prophesy and forbid not to speak with tongues.'

I am always accused of forbidding tongues. That is a ridiculous accusation. If you can demonstrate that what you claim to do is biblical tongues in biblical context and for Gods purposes no one would prohibit their exercise. What you promote as tongues is contrary to scripture and cannot be produced by the Holy Spirit but are the result of the spirit of man.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

What a messed up and convoluted way of interpreting the Bible. There is no way to get that out of I Corinthians 13. If it is done away, why would youw ant to revive it.

Btw, how do the two witnesses prophesy?

You make no sense when it comes to this issue.

Listen up. The revival of tongues is not for the church it is for Israel. The end times prophecies are about Israel not the church.

The two witnesses are not going to be Gentile church members form the local Pentecostal church. They will be of Israel and will prophecy to Israel of their Messiah Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[stonesoffire]

When Dr. Andrew Newberg, a neuroscientist, compared brain scans of Christians praying in tongues with Buddhist monks chanting and Catholic nuns praying, the study showed the frontal lobes—the brain's control center—went quiet in the brains of Christians talking in tongues, proving that speaking in tongues isn't a function of the natural brain but an operation of the Spirit (1 Cor. 14:2, 14).

Penn State University did a study on speaking in tongues and found the same thing. It can be found on the web or at least it used to be. Now I have to look. lol

 

[stonesoffire]

http://www.uphs.upenn.edu/news/News_Releases/oct06/glossolalia.htm

 

[88]

Acts 19:1-6 After salvation you can have the Spirit come upon you---your will speak with tongues---when I was in the Army witnessed to two soldiers about the Holy Spirit---go back to your barracks and ask God for the Holy Spirit to come upon you--The Holy Spirit did and they told me that they received this experience and spoke in tongues...

 

[stonesoffire]

Show me one scripture that says we will speak Hebrew.

And you know, if you could just get your frontal lobe to shut up for a minute you might understand what it means to yield your mind to the Holy Spirit.

Israel speaks Hebrew now. Though I'm sure it isn't ancient Hebrew. But, I could be wrong. The reason I know this is because I follow several Jews on Periscope.

 

[stonesoffire]

Being submitted and Spirit filled is not kicking it into neutral and letting it roll which always takes a down hill course.

You simply misunderstand Roger. Before I was born again, I had fear that a spirit would take over my body. Might be from movies about ghosts that I watched as a kid.

Its not this way at all. Its emotional at times with great joy, or peace flooding in...and even power surging through us. All different experiences and all good. Holy Spirit is gentle.

 

[stonesoffire]

Listen up. The revival of tongues is not for the church it is for Israel. The end times prophecies are about Israel not the church.

The two witnesses are not going to be Gentile church members form the local Pentecostal church. They will be of Israel and will prophecy to Israel of their Messiah Jesus.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

In this I believe you are correct.

Except for the revival of tongues of course. Where are you getting this in Joel?

 

[RickyZ]

If the end times events are reserved for Israel then why does God REPEATEDLY say they will be poured out upon the world?

Those who think it is just for Israel think we gentiles are going to get a free pass for our disobedience and disbelief.

God does not hand out free passes, other than for salvation and even that is not free in that we have to take a positive step to accept it..