TONGUES is a precious gift from God

[SophieT]

I'm not saying every church out there is involved in fakery and fraud. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying fraud doesn't discriminate; it's found in any and all kinds of churches. But again, just because fraud is found everywhere, that doesn't mean every church out there is involved in fraud.

I'm not trying to convince you and it feels like that is what you're trying to draw me into. So have a blessed day.

I am sure you are feeling something

conviction possibly?

 

[kaylagrl]

The one thing that seems to be lacking in this whole discussion is common sense. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see what's right in front of your face. I'm not a linguist and know little to nothing about linguistics; but I don't need to. I've lived long enough in this world to know a rat when I see one.

So now the opposing side in this discussion are rats? And you consider this a common sense approach.

 

[kaylagrl]

I'm not saying every church out there is involved in fakery and fraud. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying fraud doesn't discriminate; it's found in any and all kinds of churches. But again, just because fraud is found everywhere, that doesn't mean every church out there is involved in fraud.

I'm not trying to convince you and it feels like that's what you're trying to draw me into. So have a blessed day.

Yes, fraud is found in a lot of churches, trust me I've probably been in more churches in differing denominations than anyone else here. But I don't judge one church, or a certain group of people, as a whole. I'd appreciate that others would do me the same favor.

 

[kaylagrl]

Kavic can believe whatever he wants. I don't need a linguist to tell what's patently obvious.

Not to be speaking behind his back, but if he is unwilling to say what religion or movement he is apart of how does he then feel he has the right to judge and questions others beliefs? And I put that question to you Kavic, so I'm not speaking behind your back. Let's have an open and honest conversation. You're not a Christian, so what religion or belief do you hold to?

 

[Rhomphaeam]

When the local Church is Family, Friends, local people of a small town or community, just how much of this actually happens before getting caught?

None of the Churches I attended would do something that Mary Jo, and Billy Bob, and Peggy Sue, could smear your name and ruin you in a heartbeat!

So, once again, and be practical using literal Common Sense, the majority of Small Churches you would never find being done what you see on television, is that correct?

I agree - but the majority of small churches - perhaps a majority of churches in some denominations most closely associated with tongues - are nevertheless influenced by a broader reality than speaking in tongues as a reality of the Holy Spirit being present in power in their lives - where that gift and that blessing has a reality that is known to the speaker and others who are n that same blessing from God.

So that gives us two broader realities. The one (latterly stated in the above paragraph in red) can in truth only be received experientially in the church and in a church where that reality exists. But its meaning remains true regardless to whether others witness it or not outside that local church - and no one but the one who has that gift of God with the accompanying witness in their own spirit can determine its substance because it is spiritually discerned and in reality is a function of the spirit made alive by the Holy Spirit and then a gift of the Holy Spirit as an empowering effect.

The second broader reality isn't stated in my first paragraph - neither can it be stated because it is always closed down by dissection and in my own calling that unstated effect is precisely what needs to be addressed. It is not the gift of tongues or whether it is a blessing or not. The gift of tongues is a marvellous spiritual gift that the one who is in possession of it knows very well that they are the beneficiary when they worship God in the assembly of believers or alone with interjections of known speech in their praise and adoration of the Father - in a true worship of God - and when in an opening up of the inner man of the spirit in Christ to utter things that cannot be truly understood yet can be discerned to have the same substance as the spiritual man utters when he speaks and praises and worships the Father in a known tongue - his own tongue.

There are two realities and the one is a simple thing to understand and the other is another matter. But that understanding will never be arrived at contentiously or by a means of exercising spiritual authority without grace and mercy. If not then the Father may as well reign judgement down by the mouth of the prophets.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I am sure you are feeling something

conviction possibly?

Not by your hand sister and by your hand not by God's either because you tell him not to bring God into this - whatever this is. Unpick the direction of your own words before you assume to understand others' words.

 

[kaylagrl]

And which effect are you speaking about, if you care to share.

It seems my question will not be answered...

 

[SophieT]

It seems my question will not be answered...

I have him on ignore. he is believing his gift (putting people down like he did the op, telling her she had a false spirit of prophecy and various other things he feels he is being told to say and he has been objectionable to me ever since I told him I do not follow the teaching of Calvin. he posted a video and asked what I thought of it...he thought it proved Calvinism and I told him it would depend on what a person believed as to how they interpreted the video. he cannot take any questioning and it seems Calvinism is a trigger for him

your question will not be answered unless you care to listen to a bunch of how great he is and how simple you are

but don't let that stop you

 

[SophieT]

here is what he said to Lafftur:

It is a simple thing to test the spirits - by testing their words. It is the Lord who is going to tear down that false prophetic spirit that parades like a man - speaks like a man and desires to direct the children of God as a shepherd of their souls - yet speaks falsely.

he says she has a false prophetic spirit...he also has stated that the entire thread reveals we all ignore the Jezebel spirit evidenced in it

you can read the rest in post 69 and prior to that post, the other things he said to Blain as well

he is way out of place and seems to think he is beyond anyone questioning him in any way

 

[kaylagrl]

I have him on ignore. he is believing his gift (putting people down like he did the op, telling her she had a false spirit of prophecy and various other things he feels he is being told to say and he has been objectionable to me ever since I told him I do not follow the teaching of Calvin. he posted a video and asked what I thought of it...he thought it proved Calvinism and I told him it would depend on what a person believed as to how they interpreted the video. he cannot take any questioning and it seems Calvinism is a trigger for him

your question will not be answered unless you care to listen to a bunch of how great he is and how simple you are

but don't let that stop you

Haha, I really didn't think I'd get an answer. Plus I would hit that trigger button hard, I do not agree with Calvinism. I'll take his silence as a gift rather than an insult. Thanks for the heads up. You read between the lines well.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

I have him on ignore. he is believing his gift (putting people down like he did the op, telling her she had a false spirit of prophecy and various other things he feels he is being told to say and he has been objectionable to me ever since I told him I do not follow the teaching of Calvin. he posted a video and asked what I thought of it...he thought it proved Calvinism and I told him it would depend on what a person believed as to how they interpreted the video. he cannot take any questioning and it seems Calvinism is a trigger for him

your question will not be answered unless you care to listen to a bunch of how great he is and how simple you are

but don't let that stop you

In the thread you are referencing in your witness against me you said the falling to the originator of the thread.

@#60
are you trying to teach that the person must have the Holy Spirit given to them before they believe? (straight up Calvinism)

You said that above to another poster sister not to myself just for clarity here - but my response to your comment was to post a nine minute video narrative taken from a witness by Duncan Campbell to a conference of Ministers. What I appended to that video were the below words.

Listen to this nine minute audio and then explain what happened here in this revival meeting on the Island of Berneray. Thanks.

Anyone can go and follow that thread beginning from the beginning by a poster who is now banned. But my participation began @#58 and I posted the video @#62 as my second comment in that thread. The first comment was to the thread and the second comment was to yourself as cited above. It is all visible and easily read and so whilst I accept that you are free to post what you wish - I cannot be denied a right of reply when you insist on something that is not visible in the comments I made or the relevance of them to your own posts that followed my posting to yourself as stated herein - even though you have blocked me.

I also posted the same video narrative in this thread. That can also be found easily and viewed if anyone desires to do that.

What my hope was in posting that @#58 post (my first post in the thread being referenced) was to try and convey what you know is a Calvinist precept pertaining to the question of whether anyone receives the Holy Spirit as implied by the poster who originated the thread and is as I say now banned from the forum. The video is bearing witness to that reality. So either the witness was false - in which case the Hebridean Revival was also false as witnessed to by its chief proponent and officiating minister - or else it is a true witness. The rest can be read if anyone wants to do so.

As to the other matter you raise here in what I have said in this thread - that is visible also.

I do hope that you can understand that, should you be able to read this comment now. Thank you.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

I'm not saying every church out there is involved in fakery and fraud. That's not what I'm saying. I'm just saying fraud doesn't discriminate; it's found in any and all kinds of churches. But again, just because fraud is found everywhere, that doesn't mean every church out there is involved in fraud.

I'm not trying to convince you and it feels like that's what you're trying to draw me into. So have a blessed day.

Convince me of what?

I was feeling like your answers were being painted with a with a broad stroke. But I am thrilled to see this portion from your answer, [I'm not saying every church out there is involved in fakery and fraud + that doesn't mean every church out there is involved in fraud]. Thank You!

 

[Heaven_Bound]

I agree - but the majority of small churches - perhaps a majority of churches in some denominations most closely associated with tongues - are nevertheless influenced by a broader reality than speaking in tongues as a reality of the Holy Spirit being present in power in their lives - where that gift and that blessing has a reality that is known to the speaker and others who are n that same blessing from God.

Very True!
But Family and Friends are a Ministers hardest critics. And in my Family, they are very much like this website and the majority are Believers in God. And if what someone is doing is not on the up and up, I pity that pour Soul!

So that gives us two broader realities. The one (latterly stated in the above paragraph in red) can in truth only be received experientially in the church and in a church where that reality exists. But its meaning remains true regardless to whether others witness it or not outside that local church - and no one but the one who has that gift of God with the accompanying witness in their own spirit can determine its substance because it is spiritually discerned and in reality is a function of the spirit made alive by the Holy Spirit and then a gift of the Holy Spirit as an empowering effect.

Agreed!

The second broader reality isn't stated in my first paragraph - neither can it be stated because it is always closed down by dissection and in my own calling that unstated effect is precisely what needs to be addressed. It is not the gift of tongues or whether it is a blessing or not. The gift of tongues is a marvellous spiritual gift that the one who is in possession of it knows very well that they are the beneficiary when they worship God in the assembly of believers or alone with interjections of known speech in their praise and adoration of the Father - in a true worship of God - and when in an opening up of the inner man of the spirit in Christ to utter things that cannot be truly understood yet can be discerned to have the same substance as the spiritual man utters when he speaks and praises and worships the Father in a known tongue - his own tongue.

I definitely agree, I can feel the Holy Spirit praying in my native Language or while Speaking in Tongues. But, there is a third example to which I love most, which is when the Holy Spirit speaks through me in Tongues. This is when Tongues is Spoken and then followed by Interpretation. When that happens, it leaves an effect on all of your body, not just the mind, but you understand you were just what I like to call, A Live Wire.

There are two realities and the one is a simple thing to understand and the other is another matter. But that understanding will never be arrived at contentiously or by a means of exercising spiritual authority without grace and mercy. If not then the Father may as well reign judgement down by the mouth of the prophets.

Agreed!

 

[Rhomphaeam]

But Family and Friends are a Ministers hardest critics. And in my Family, they are very much like this website and the majority are Believers in God. And if what someone is doing is not on the up and up, I pity that pour Soul!

Amen to your agreement brother.

 

[Heaven_Bound]

Some believe Silence is a sign of Intelligence when backed into a corner. Others, like myself, believe Silence Speaks Louder than Words. Which makes me wonder, after 3 attempts to find out if Kavic is a Satanist, he/she refuses to even offer up a simple "No."

What I do believe, his presence within this Discussion, has always been an attempt to create "Doubt" in those whom God has granted the Gift of Tongues. But knowing that he is 100% pure Enemy to the Holy Spirit's Gift of Tongues, just proves the lengths that Satan will go to, by joining a Christian [Believer's in God] Website, to bring Confusion towards a Gift that brings Edification and Uplifting to All True Believers in God. Satan is well aware that Edification is Empowering the Believer of God. And no doubt, that is the "last thing" Satan ever wants to witness!

I feel this is a Moment of Victory, and one we should give Glory to God over!

 

[Godsgirl83]

Some believe Silence is a sign of Intelligence when backed into a corner. Others, like myself, believe Silence Speaks Louder than Words. Which makes me wonder, after 3 attempts to find out if Kavic is a Satanist, he/she refuses to even offer up a simple "No."

Have you looked @ the users profile?
Might answer your own question

 

[Evmur]

Every time there is a thread like this you have the same people pop up with "proof" of their POV. No one has "proved" tongues has ceased in the first place. One interprets it one way, and we another. There is no date or time on the calendar that tongues must stop. Any thing beyond that is opinion.

Who cares what they think? we speak with other tongues, we are blest.

 

[Evmur]

I'm familiar with many of these, particularly Samarin and Goodman. I think you're misreading something - nowhere do either advocate that modern tongues-speech is actual language, nor have I ever heard of any other linguist who does. "Language-like" is the usual moniker attached to tongues-speech. Unlike gibberish, tongues seek to mimic language (gibberish, by its very nature, does not).
I've already addressed the typical subset of phonemes found in tongues-speech in a previous post.

Some people do speak it in an inspired state, but again, if one studies the the structure and glossic strings, any hope of postulating real language quickly goes out the door.

That is all educated baloney

Any sound made for a purpose is language, a cry or scream of fear or pain is language, a cry of triumph or joy is language. I am always amazed that women understand what their tiny babies are saying ... but they do.

 

[Evmur]

Very True!
But Family and Friends are a Ministers hardest critics. And in my Family, they are very much like this website and the majority are Believers in God. And if what someone is doing is not on the up and up, I pity that pour Soul!


Agreed!


I definitely agree, I can feel the Holy Spirit praying in my native Language or while Speaking in Tongues. But, there is a third example to which I love most, which is when the Holy Spirit speaks through me in Tongues. This is when Tongues is Spoken and then followed by Interpretation. When that happens, it leaves an effect on all of your body, not just the mind, but you understand you were just what I like to call, A Live Wire.


Agreed!

I have only once witnessed God interrupt a speaker with a message in tongues. It was in a large moderately successful Pentecostal church in London, England.

We had just had 2 glorious weeks of revivalist meetings in a large venue, hundreds every night getting saved, many truly wonderful miracles of healing, anointed teaching, great blessing. The meetings were conducted by an American evangelistic association.

The following Sunday we gathered to hear the customary denunciations and criticism at fellowship, sure enough we were not disappointed.

The visiting speaker was American and he stood up and started by apologising to everyone for what he believed was the disgraceful gimmickry and the fund raising techniques of those meetings .... But God broke through, there was a dramatic message in tongues that totally galvanised the assembly. We waited in hushed silence for the interpretation which when it came it came through the senior pastor on the platform.

"If My people do not stop criticising men and women who I have raised up and anointed and sent to the nations of the world to shake those nations with My power and My glory to win out of those nations a people for My name, then I will put many upon a bed of sickness and some I will take home. I will clear this assembly and raise up another assembly in it's place, an assembly which will enter into what God has prepared and what God is doing to revive His work in these your days"

This happened as I have said in a fairly large and successful Pentecostal church. The visiting speaker had to publicly repent of his criticism. Within 2 years God had cleared out the leadership and the new leadership actively supported that evangelistic work they had previously criticised. That church is now the largest Pentecostal church in Europe with satellite churches all over London and sister churches in other cities. Thousands are being saved.

 

[Rhomphaeam]

But, there is a third example to which I love most, which is when the Holy Spirit speaks through me in Tongues. This is when Tongues is Spoken and then followed by Interpretation. When that happens, it leaves an effect on all of your body, not just the mind, but you understand you were just what I like to call, A Live Wire.

I left that meaning out of my comment - but didn't exclude it from my other comment when I explained where my concern lies. I am certain that you understood that as well when you posted this comment - and not just the criticism of Ministers by their own flocks.

As to the fellow who states that he is an unbeliever - or to be specific a non christian - he is a man first and foremost and not an object to overcome when he is pressed by accusatory speech into a satanic countenance so that we can overlook his humanity and his need for Christ. Satanists don't spend their time making lame attempts to inflect a linguistic argument when they are unable to even write cogently in their own first language - even if they are a discouragement to some.