Touch me not...

[Derek1955]

In Proverbs 8:17 we are counselled: 'I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me' and a perfect example of that proverb is Mary, who went to seek Jesus very early in the morning and while it was still dark. And what joy must have flowed through her whole being when Jesus spoke her name and yet Christ told her gently but firmly, touch Me not for I am not yet ascended to the Father...

We see the reason for His words in Leviticus 23:9-11, 14 when:

The LORD said to Moses, Speak to the Israelites and say to them: When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. He is to wave the sheaf before the LORD so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath. You must not eat any bread, or roasted or new grain, until the very day you bring this offering to your God. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.

Throughout Old Testament times the first sheaf of corn was always a reason for joy but before anyone was permitted to partake of its goodness and grace, it had to be 'waved' before the Lord. Similarly Jesus Christ is the full and final representation of the First-fruit of them that slept and no one was allowed to partake of Him or touch Him until He had ascended and presented Himself as the First-fruit offering to the Father.

Mary was not allowed to cling to her fleshly Christ for He had now risen from the dead and by so doing had broken the power of death for all who believe in Him. Jesus was to be glorified and to take His place at the right hand of the Father so that He could give abundant life to all who believe in Him. Jesus gave Mary her mission: 'go to My brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto My Father, and your Father; and to My God, and your God.'

Never before had the Lord Jesus called His followers, My brethren. With His glorious resurrection came a new dispensation which was for them to go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature and this we read in Matthew 28:18-20 Then Jesus came to them and said, all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

 

[jcollins]

Then Jesus came to them and said, all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me . If you are minded a certain way, then this proclamation is given in the same vein as This voice was for your benefit. Note also within a few decades of his death we go back to the 'ol The earth is under the control of the evil one. I keep coming back to the idea the bible is a divisive tool to influence and justify wrongdoing, a "photobomb" of christ's life in an attempt to muddy the waters. Shall we ever realize our intended life?

 

[Nehemiah6]

I keep coming back to the idea the bible is a divisive tool to influence and justify wrongdoing, a "photobomb" of christ's life in an attempt to muddy the waters.

You remain confused about spiritual matters while misrepresenting the Bible.

 

[jcollins]

You remain confused about spiritual matters while misrepresenting the Bible.

Then i am wrong, but what of your life?

 

[Pilgrimshope]

In Proverbs 8:17 we are counselled: 'I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me' and a perfect example of that proverb is Mary, who went to seek Jesus very early in the morning and while it was still dark. And what joy must have flowed through her whole being when Jesus spoke her name and yet Christ told her gently but firmly, touch Me not for I am not yet ascended to the Father...

We see the reason for His words in Leviticus 23:9-11, 14 when:

The LORD said to Moses, Speak to the Israelites and say to them: When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. He is to wave the sheaf before the LORD so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath. You must not eat any bread, or roasted or new grain, until the very day you bring this offering to your God. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.

Throughout Old Testament times the first sheaf of corn was always a reason for joy but before anyone was permitted to partake of its goodness and grace, it had to be 'waved' before the Lord. Similarly Jesus Christ is the full and final representation of the First-fruit of them that slept and no one was allowed to partake of Him or touch Him until He had ascended and presented Himself as the First-fruit offering to the Father.

Mary was not allowed to cling to her fleshly Christ for He had now risen from the dead and by so doing had broken the power of death for all who believe in Him. Jesus was to be glorified and to take His place at the right hand of the Father so that He could give abundant life to all who believe in Him. Jesus gave Mary her mission: 'go to My brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto My Father, and your Father; and to My God, and your God.'

Never before had the Lord Jesus called His followers, My brethren. With His glorious resurrection came a new dispensation which was for them to go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature and this we read in Matthew 28:18-20 Then Jesus came to them and said, all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

interesting post thanks

I noticed that he told Mary don’t touch me then when he appears later to the disciples he invites Thomas to touch him .

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Yes, I do believe Jesus fulfilled "firstfruit" (Lev23:10-12) ON His Resurrection Day (just after speaking with Mary Magdalene, early in the day ['I ASCEND']). Then later that same day (late in the evening) had the others touch Him. Then, some "40 days" later ascended the second time (Acts 1), that time, VISIBLY. (<--and it is THIS of which was said will be the same manner in which He will "so come"--that is, at His "RETURN" to the earth FOR the earthly MK age--which will be "VISIBLE" [note: not "our Rapture [IN THE AIR]" point in time, which is distinct])

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

(just after speaking with Mary Magdalene, early in the day ['I ASCEND']). Then later that same day [...]

EDIT: I should say instead, "some time after speaking with MM..."



[Mark 16:9 - "And having risen early the first day of the week, He appeared first to Mary Magdalene, from whom He had cast out seven demons."]

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Then i am wrong, but what of your life?

do you know how you can know the truth ? Begin to study and learn the things Jesus taught about God , man , and eternal life you find these spiritual truths in the four accounts of Jesus life his ministry , his miracles , his compassion and forgiveness , his promises to those who believe his death and resurrection Matthew mark like and John study a bit each day of even ten minutes and ask the lord to teach you ... but then believe the things you learn

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

Jesus was to be glorified and to take His place at the right hand of the Father so that He could give abundant life to all who believe in Him. Jesus gave Mary her mission: 'go to My brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto My Father, and your Father; and to My God, and your God.'
Never before had the Lord Jesus called His followers, My brethren. With His glorious resurrection came a new dispensation which was for them to go [...]

Hadn't He?

It seems to me He had, in Matthew 12:46-50, Mark 3:31-35, and Luke 8:19-21 (said well before His "I ascend [active]" on His Resurrection Day/ON Firstfruit). He also referenced "the least of these My brethren before His death, though speaking of a "far future" time frame (the future trib years that lead UP TO His Second Coming to the earth), when He spoke about it in Matthew 25:40 (also stated before His death). Though the other three passages ^ were speaking of the time then present when He spoke it/spoke of it.


Example: Matthew 12 - "46 While Jesus was still speaking to the crowds, His mother and brothers stood outside, wanting to speak to Him. 47 Someone told Him, “Look, Your mother and brothers are standing outside, wanting to speak to You.”e
48 But Jesus replied, “Who is My mother, and who are My brothers?” 49 Pointing to His disciples, He said, “Here are My mother and My brothers. 50 For whoever does the will of My Father in heaven is My brother and sister and mother.” "

 

[jcollins]

do you know how you can know the truth ? Begin to study and learn the things Jesus taught about God , man , and eternal life you find these spiritual truths in the four accounts of Jesus life his ministry , his miracles , his compassion and forgiveness , his promises to those who believe his death and resurrection Matthew mark like and John study a bit each day of even ten minutes and ask the lord to teach you ... but then believe the things you learn

If you believe christs teachings, then you will believe there is only one who does not have the truth in him. If you believe what christians are taught, then those who do not confess christ as lord and savior do not have the truth in them. If you walk outside and look around, then you will believe the whole world does not have the truth in them. The truth is we live on earth against someones wishes. We are the blessing of God on the earth, but our work is frustrated from without, not from within, were it so, we would not be dealing today with same problems we were 2000 years ago when it was taught, love God, love brother.

 

[Runningman]

Then Jesus came to them and said, all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me . If you are minded a certain way, then this proclamation is given in the same vein as This voice was for your benefit. Note also within a few decades of his death we go back to the 'ol The earth is under the control of the evil one. I keep coming back to the idea the bible is a divisive tool to influence and justify wrongdoing, a "photobomb" of christ's life in an attempt to muddy the waters. Shall we ever realize our intended life?

I think when we are studying the scriptures we should try to understand the broader picture because the Bible isn't concise. When people quickly do a drive by and say "but, but, but Jesus said the heaven and earth have been given to him but later it says the evil one is the god of this world." while disregarding context and the spirit in which the Bible was intended to be received.

The answer is often not brief and requires some searching of the scriptures for several minutes, producing paragraphs of words, to answer single-sentence questions from non-understanding people who aren't interested in representing Christ in a positive way anyway.

Often the response is no response, giving the impression of indifference, but in reality people only want to apply their time and efforts to those sincerely seeking the Truth of God.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

If you believe christs teachings, then you will believe there is only one who does not have the truth in him. If you believe what christians are taught, then those who do not confess christ as lord and savior do not have the truth in them. If you walk outside and look around, then you will believe the whole world does not have the truth in them. The truth is we live on earth against someones wishes. We are the blessing of God on the earth, but our work is frustrated from without, not from within, were it so, we would not be dealing today with same problems we were 2000 years ago when it was taught, love God, love brother.

Do you know why that is ? because the church was flooded with so many false doctrines so the truth isn’t really preached a lot and fewer people accept it . Therefore fewer people have the truth in them

“But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Lord that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

And many shall follow their lascivious doings; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭

the truth is the gospel but that was written 1900 years ago if you notice when people start talking about the truth of Christ many can’t accept it because they already are full of other doctrine that opposes the truth

 

[Scribe]

In Proverbs 8:17 we are counselled: 'I love them that love me; and those that seek me early shall find me' and a perfect example of that proverb is Mary, who went to seek Jesus very early in the morning and while it was still dark. And what joy must have flowed through her whole being when Jesus spoke her name and yet Christ told her gently but firmly, touch Me not for I am not yet ascended to the Father...

We see the reason for His words in Leviticus 23:9-11, 14 when:

The LORD said to Moses, Speak to the Israelites and say to them: When you enter the land I am going to give you and you reap its harvest, bring to the priest a sheaf of the first grain you harvest. He is to wave the sheaf before the LORD so it will be accepted on your behalf; the priest is to wave it on the day after the Sabbath. You must not eat any bread, or roasted or new grain, until the very day you bring this offering to your God. This is to be a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live.

Throughout Old Testament times the first sheaf of corn was always a reason for joy but before anyone was permitted to partake of its goodness and grace, it had to be 'waved' before the Lord. Similarly Jesus Christ is the full and final representation of the First-fruit of them that slept and no one was allowed to partake of Him or touch Him until He had ascended and presented Himself as the First-fruit offering to the Father.

Mary was not allowed to cling to her fleshly Christ for He had now risen from the dead and by so doing had broken the power of death for all who believe in Him. Jesus was to be glorified and to take His place at the right hand of the Father so that He could give abundant life to all who believe in Him. Jesus gave Mary her mission: 'go to My brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto My Father, and your Father; and to My God, and your God.'

Never before had the Lord Jesus called His followers, My brethren. With His glorious resurrection came a new dispensation which was for them to go into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature and this we read in Matthew 28:18-20 Then Jesus came to them and said, all authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me. Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.

I interpret this differently. I believe the scripture really only speaks of one ascension not two. How then do we understand this comment by Jesus to Mary about not touching him. As in many other examples from the Gospels it is helpful to see if the same event is recorded in another Gospel and if additional details are giving that shed light on it. In this case we do have additional data to consider in the Gospel of Matthew: 28

1In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre. 2And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it. 3His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow: 4And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men. 5And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified. 6He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay. 7And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
8And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word. 9And as they went to tell his disciples, behold, Jesus met them, saying, All hail. And they came and held him by the feet, and worshipped him. 10Then said Jesus unto them, Be not afraid: go tell my brethren that they go into Galilee, and there shall they see me.

Now notice that THEY (the women) both held him by the feet. They TOUCHED him.
We compare this to Mark and we find that now it is only ONE woman still holding him by the feet.

Jesus is saying to her to STOP CLINGING TO HIM. The other Mary had already got up and left to obey the word to go tell his disciples to meet him in Galilee but this Mary would not let go. Why? She did not want to lose Jesus again after she had found him. She did not want to be separated from him after all that grief she had just went through. But Jesus is saying to her that He is going to the Father to send the Holy Spirit who will be with her and in her instead. She cannot expect to have the same physical presence of Jesus body and feet to hold on to the rest of her life. Things were going to be different. He had to go to the Father to send the Holy Spirit which he promised. But he did not do that until after his ascension which is what he is telling her he must do. He was not saying I have to do this before I meet the disciples in Galilee. She had already touched him. And so did the other Mary, they held him by his feet as we can clearly read in Matt 28:9 It is a translation that is better read Do not Keep on Touching me, or Clinging to me. And when he says he must go to the Father it is as a solution to Mary's grief, she will have Jesus in her heart always by the power of the Holy Spirit which he will send as a result of his ascension.

Now, as to presenting his blood before the Father, or on the Mercy Seat in heaven or any other Levitical typology one wants to present, I also believe that was accomplished at the Cross. When Jesus shed his blood on the Cross it was applied in the heavenlies as Hebrew 9-11 speaks about. This did not require Jesus to take a trip to heaven between Mary clinging to him and his meeting with the disciples in Galilee. He did not take a secret trip with a flask of blood in his pocket saved over from the cross and pour it on some heavenly altar and then come back again and meet with his disciples. I know it sounds silly when I say it like that but that is often what is suggested. What did he carry this blood in? Why was it necessary to do so? Why was the blood shed on the cross accepted in the heavenlies without this special ascension? As you can see it is not good hermeneutics to suggest that Jesus blood on the cross needed to be carried to heaven real quick before his meeting in Galilee. There are definitely typology in Leviticus and the Pentetuech that apply to Jesus and his atonement, but what we need to be careful of is thinking that the shadow is still the reality. That their must be a physical pouring of more blood out on some physical/heavenly altar that was not yet accomplished at the cross. I hope you are following my logic.

So in summary 1) we know that both Mary's touched Jesus based on the clear reading of Matt 28:9 and this eliminates the interpretation that Mary did NOT touch Jesus before Jesus said "Dont Touch me" and therefore we must not insist on that interpretation.
2) Jesus did not need to go to heaven and sprinkle any blood in an heavenly temple that had not already been accepted by the cross, and if he did, what did he carry it in? Or did he cut himself afresh when he got there and sprinkle it about? Or was he still bleeding and pooling blood at his feet when he was talking to Mary?
3) There is only reference to one ascension in the rest of scriptures and so I find no hint of a suggestion that the apostles spoke of two.

 

[TheDivineWatermark]

^ Just a note in reference to my Posts #6 & #7, I was referring to His being "THE SHEAF" in Lev23:9-12 [not involving "blood" in this instance]; for example, see under the word related to this verse (esp. vv. 9-10[,14-"...until the selfsame day that ye have brought an offering unto your God..."]) -

[per BibleHub]

"4 Oft. technical term in P (H), of rite in which originally the priest lifted his share of offering and waved it, i.e. moved it toward altar and back, in token of its presentation to God and its return by him to priest: in H, ׳וְהֵנִיף אֶתהָֿעֹמֶר לִפְנֵי י Leviticus 23:11a compare Leviticus 23:11b; Leviticus 23:12, also Leviticus 23:20 (on text see Di Dr-WhHpt); in P, וְהֵנַפְתָּ֫ אֹתוֺ ׳תְּנוּפָה לִפְנֵי י Exodus 29:26, so Leviticus 7:30; Leviticus 8:29; Leviticus 10:15 (object omitted) Numbers 6:20; thus also Levites are set apart for service of the priests Numbers 8:11 (Di strike out see ), Numbers 8:13; Numbers 8:21, compare Numbers 8:14 (׳לִפְנֵי י omitted); but same phr, of entire lamb, with oil, Leviticus 14:12,24, and of offerings which were burnt, entirely Exodus 29:24 (compare Exodus 29:25), Leviticus 8:27 (compare Leviticus 8:28), or in part Numbers 5:25 (׳הֵנִיף הַמִּנְחָה לִפְנֵי י), — in these the original significance seems lost; so, clearly, of contributions for tabernacle, = offer ׳הֵנִיף תְּנוּפַת זָהָב לְי Exodus 35:22. — compare תְּנוּפָה below "

[bold and underline emphasis mine]

 

[jcollins]

Do you know why that is ? because the church was flooded with so many false doctrines so the truth isn’t really preached a lot and fewer people accept it . Therefore fewer people have the truth in them

“But there arose false prophets also among the people, as among you also there shall be false teachers, who shall privily bring in destructive heresies, denying even the Lord that bought them, bringing upon themselves swift destruction.

And many shall follow their lascivious doings; by reason of whom the way of the truth shall be evil spoken of.”
‭‭2 Peter‬ ‭2:1-2‬ ‭

the truth is the gospel but that was written 1900 years ago if you notice when people start talking about the truth of Christ many can’t accept it because they already are full of other doctrine that opposes the truth

The truth of the gospel is everything about christ we admire is in us as well, the destructive heresy you spoke of is (i think) the ongoing attempt of (someone) to deny us our sovereignty or to add to our charactor set falsehood.