TRINITY IS A FALSE TEACHING.

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Re: The Koran teaches the Trinity...

One such Koranic ayah (which, ironically Muslims are trained to use all the time for their position) actually plainly states that the Trinity is not “three”, but instead, it is “one”, and then proceeds to list out Father, Son, and Spirit…


يأهل الكتب لا تغلوا في دينكم ولا تقولوا على الله
إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله
وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا


Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, certainly do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only the Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe on account of “allah”, and His messengers, and they do not say: "Three." Refrain (it is) agreeable certainly your only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly His what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and He sufficed on account of “allah”, a witness.



Observe that this ayah is directed at ‘The Book’s family’ (ahla alkitabi) – which refers to the followers of the Holy Bible; i.e. Christians.

For the Muslim, it then gives instruction as to what the correct interpretation of the Holy Bible needs to be regarding (among numerous things), the concept of the Trinity.


In this classic Islamic one-hit-wonder we are told not to refer to the one “allah” as “Three”, as even his messengers do not say “Three” - because he is not the result of counted things (thalathatun)….and yet, in the very ayah itself it lists-out directly, Father, Son, & Spirit.

This is a classic Koranic example in which the authors display their understanding of the Biblical concept of the Holy Trinity, and give the example of what it is not by the usage of the word “Three”…and what it is, by the example of “one”.

Perhaps if you actually reference the correct Quran instead of a fabricated one your concept of Islam would not be so warped.
 
Re: The Koran teaches the Trinity...

Perhaps if you actually reference the correct Quran instead of a fabricated one your concept of Islam would not be so warped.

What part of the Arabic translation do you disagree with?

You don't even know....do you....?

Run along muslim...
 
Perhaps that's your issue. It's not my issue. When considering the question of what the Holy Spirit might be other than God or Satan, my issue was noting that some people explicitly teach it's impersonal and that others talk about it like it is.

Do you see what I mean? You're trying to make one of your favorite issues (your ballgame) my issue. It is not. I do not wish to play with you. If you want to refute these people, I could get you their numbers. I won't, because I wouldn't wish this sort of conversation on anybody, but I could. It's great. You've got a heretical teaching about which you're passionate - I'm not the audience you think I am.

If you had started with that question (which would have been interesting) instead of a wall-of-text, half-plagiarized, not-attributed-until-pressed-on-it refutation (which is not interesting, because I do not hold the belief), the conversation would have gone differently. Instead: *gestures upwards*

If this is what you call a home run, I suspect you've actually been bowling.
That's just so kind of you, but unfortunately it really doesn't get under my skin, especially after being repeatedly insulted by KJV-Only advocates.

If this is what you consider plagiarism, it definitely wasn't intentional, it's just the fault of using a cell phone in attempt to link to large downloable PDF files. It's not a reoccurring thing that happens, and I cite my sources on a regular/consistent basis, especially on every sizable post I make.


http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...and-egypt-afterward-destroyed.html#post932792

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...lms-83-18-whom-worship-help-3.html#post755872

http://christianchat.com/bible-disc...ays-prove-deity-jesus-christ.html#post1254533
 
I see divisions sedesies and this mindless contrsdiction is in a need to stop this is the very thing paul warned you about but God is but one ad The Father the Son and the Holy Spirit is but one God the same in existence able to exist simultaneously for He is Omnipotent and omnipresent without bounds.
 
Re: The Koran teaches the Trinity...

What part of the Arabic translation do you disagree with?

You don't even know....do you....?

Run along muslim...

Rather a rude person. I think it is better I continue to ignore you.

Here is the verse.

O People of the Book! Do not go beyond the bounds in your religion, and do not say anything of God but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was but a Messenger of God, and a Word of His (Power) which He conveyed to Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God (as the One, Unique God), and His Messengers (including Jesus, as Messenger); and do not say: (God is one of) a trinity. Give up (this assertion) – (it is) for your own good (to do so). God is but One God; All-Glorified He is in that He is absolutely above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And God suffices as the One to be relied on, to Whom affairs should be referred.
 
Re: The Koran teaches the Trinity...

I disagree with the Trinity but I let other people have their beliefs, I do not have the greatest understanding of the scriptures I am still learning. And yet when I read I never see direct indication of a Trinity. Rather it all seems to stem from translation and interpretation, which I avoid for the sole reason that I do not misunderstand the word. I am not saying Trinity is untrue I am saying that I would rather focus on what Jesus spoke about, to believe in him, to spread the word, and to love one another.
 
Re: The Koran teaches the Trinity...

Rather a rude person. I think it is better I continue to ignore you.

Here is the verse.

O People of the Book! Do not go beyond the bounds in your religion, and do not say anything of God but the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was but a Messenger of God, and a Word of His (Power) which He conveyed to Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in God (as the One, Unique God), and His Messengers (including Jesus, as Messenger); and do not say: (God is one of) a trinity. Give up (this assertion) – (it is) for your own good (to do so). God is but One God; All-Glorified He is in that He is absolutely above having a son. To Him belongs whatever is in the heavens and whatever is on the earth. And God suffices as the One to be relied on, to Whom affairs should be referred.


Where to even begin...

Please show us the Arabic words behind the plethora of parenthesis in this tortured rendering....not that you can, but I have to ask...

The Arabic word for 'Trinity' did not even exist when the Koran was written....the word here is 'Three'.

Further, there is absolutely NO denial of the Son..

إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله
وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا


Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only The Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe by “allah”, and his messengers, and they do not say "Three." Refrain (it is) certainly agreeable to you, only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly His what is in the heavens and in the earth and He sufficed by “allah”, a witness.


Examining the words in question…


يكون = “yakoona”

“yakoona” definition:

Accusative case. He has been.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, p. 3004
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 500 -502
Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 169







ل = “la”

“la” definition:

A prefixed affirmative particle, verily, surely, certainly, indeed, truly. Prefix: an affirmative intensifying particle, used as a corroborative. A preposition denoting possession. It is also used as a preposition expressing attribution, design. Inseparable adverbial particle.

References:
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 504 - 505
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 282
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 129







ه = “hu”

“hu” definition:

An indeclinable affixed personal or possessive pronoun of third person singular masculine; when affixed to a verb or preposition as a person pronoun, it means him or it; and when to a noun as a possessive, his or it. Singular personal or possessive pronoun. Him. Verbal suffix which expresses the accusative.

References:
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 100
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 152




Observe that there are no negatives in this phrase at all….only the affirmative…


Thus…


له = “la” + “hu” = “lahu” = certainly his





And the final word under consideration…





ولد= “waladun”

“waladun” definition:

Noun. Singular and plural. A child, son, daughter, youngling, or young one: and children, sons, daughters, offspring, young, or younglings,: of any kind: often applied to an unborn child, etc, a fetus.

It comes from the root “walada”, which means she (a woman, or mother, or any animal having an ear, as distinguished from one having merely an ear-hole) brought forth a child, or young one; or children, young, or offspring; to beget, give birth. He begot a child, or young one, etc.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, pp. 2966 - 2968
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 620 - 621
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 162






Putting it all together we have….



….. “He has certainly been his Son” ….
 
Re: The Koran teaches the Trinity...

I disagree with the Trinity but I let other people have their beliefs, I do not have the greatest understanding of the scriptures I am still learning. And yet when I read I never see direct indication of a Trinity. Rather it all seems to stem from translation and interpretation, which I avoid for the sole reason that I do not misunderstand the word. I am not saying Trinity is untrue I am saying that I would rather focus on what Jesus spoke about, to believe in him, to spread the word, and to love one another.

He spoke about the Triune God!

Believe Him....
 
Re: The Koran teaches the Trinity...

Where to even begin...

Please show us the Arabic words behind the plethora of parenthesis in this tortured rendering....not that you can, but I have to ask...

The Arabic word for 'Trinity' did not even exist when the Koran was written....the word here is 'Three'.

Further, there is absolutely NO denial of the Son..

إلا الحق إنما المسيح عيسى ابن مريم رسول الله
وكلمته ألقيها إلى مريم وروح منه فءامنوا بالله
ورسله ولا تقولوا ثلثة انتهوا خيرا لكم إنما الله
إله وحد سبحنه أن يكون له ولد له ما في
السموت وما في الأرض وكفى بالله وكيلا


Ya ahla alkitabi la taghloo fee deenikum wala taqooloo AAala Allahi illa alhaqqa innama almaseehu AAeesa ibnu maryama rasoolu Allahi wakalimatuhu alqaha ila maryama waroohun minhu faaminoo biAllahi warusulihi wala taqooloo thalathatun intahoo khayran lakum innama Allahu ilahun wahidun subhanahu an yakoona lahu waladun lahu ma fee alssamawati wama fee al-ardi wakafa biAllahi wakeelan

4.171 You The Book's family, do not go beyond the limits in your faith, and they do not say on “allah” except The Truth (is) only The Messiah Jesus, Mary's son, “allah’s” messenger, and his Word, cast forth to her, Mary, and Spirit from him; so believe by “allah”, and his messengers, and they do not say "Three." Refrain (it is) certainly agreeable to you, only “allah” one god glory be to him, that He has certainly been his Son, truly His what is in the heavens and in the earth and He sufficed by “allah”, a witness.


Examining the words in question…


يكون = “yakoona”

“yakoona” definition:

Accusative case. He has been.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, p. 3004
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 500 -502
Concordance of the Koran, Gustav Flugel, p. 169







ل = “la”

“la” definition:

A prefixed affirmative particle, verily, surely, certainly, indeed, truly. Prefix: an affirmative intensifying particle, used as a corroborative. A preposition denoting possession. It is also used as a preposition expressing attribution, design. Inseparable adverbial particle.

References:
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar pp. 504 - 505
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 282
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 129







ه = “hu”

“hu” definition:

An indeclinable affixed personal or possessive pronoun of third person singular masculine; when affixed to a verb or preposition as a person pronoun, it means him or it; and when to a noun as a possessive, his or it. Singular personal or possessive pronoun. Him. Verbal suffix which expresses the accusative.

References:
A Grammar of the Arabic Language, W. Wright, Third edition, volume 1, p. 100
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 152




Observe that there are no negatives in this phrase at all….only the affirmative…


Thus…


له = “la” + “hu” = “lahu” = certainly his





And the final word under consideration…





ولد= “waladun”

“waladun” definition:

Noun. Singular and plural. A child, son, daughter, youngling, or young one: and children, sons, daughters, offspring, young, or younglings,: of any kind: often applied to an unborn child, etc, a fetus.

It comes from the root “walada”, which means she (a woman, or mother, or any animal having an ear, as distinguished from one having merely an ear-hole) brought forth a child, or young one; or children, young, or offspring; to beget, give birth. He begot a child, or young one, etc.

References:
An Arabic-English Lexicon, E.W. Lane, volume eight, pp. 2966 - 2968
The Dictionary of the Holy Qur’an, 1st edition, Abdul Mannan Omar, pp. 620 - 621
A Dictionary and Glossary of the Koran, John Penrice, p. 162






Putting it all together we have….



….. “He has certainly been his Son” ….

lol.........
 
Today a thought processed through my brain waves, yes, pertaining to the Trinity, beings this is what I first seen as a topic of discussion upon login entry; I will share with you what thought processed through my mind touching on such. It is a confession that I hold to the dogma of the Trinity, first and foremost to inform you of my stand point in the debate of the existence of the Triune God we do serve. In some English translations we use, have the usage of the word Godhead, in this attempt we will strongly rely on such a word. For clarification of what I'm pointing out, this is what I've come to understand from my encounterance in studying scripture; that Jesus came to express the Father to us, which in us the Spirit perfects Christ (which stated already came to express the Father [Godhead]). I hope this helps some wondering about the O' so "confusing" doctrine of the Trinity.
 
God has always been Three… always been the same only His Constitution (relationship among the Three) has changed after the birth of Christ. In the book of Enoch God is shown to be the Head of Days (who is now the Father), the Chosen One (who is now the Son) and the Lord of Spirits (the Holy Spirit).

But there will be one more change in the Constitution of God and that will take place through Marriage.
 
God has always been Three… always been the same only His Constitution (relationship among the Three) has changed after the birth of Christ. In the book of Enoch God is shown to be the Head of Days (who is now the Father), the Chosen One (who is now the Son) and the Lord of Spirits (the Holy Spirit).

But there will be one more change in the Constitution of God and that will take place through Marriage.
The book of Enoch is not in the Bible and therefore cannot be refrenced as proof of trinity
 
Today a thought processed through my brain waves, yes, pertaining to the Trinity, beings this is what I first seen as a topic of discussion upon login entry; I will share with you what thought processed through my mind touching on such. It is a confession that I hold to the dogma of the Trinity, first and foremost to inform you of my stand point in the debate of the existence of the Triune God we do serve. In some English translations we use, have the usage of the word Godhead, in this attempt we will strongly rely on such a word. For clarification of what I'm pointing out, this is what I've come to understand from my encounterance in studying scripture; that Jesus came to express the Father to us, which in us the Spirit perfects Christ (which stated already came to express the Father [Godhead]). I hope this helps some wondering about the O' so "confusing" doctrine of the Trinity.
Jesus is God's son so yes he portrays God to us and also the Greek Diaglott and the Direct Hebrew translation of the old testement are the only Bibles that are worthy of study.
 
Re: The Koran teaches the Trinity...

Jesus never said the word trinity or triune
Which proves nothing.

Scripture also never says the word "sovereign" in relation to God,
but it is everywhere taught in Scripture,
just as the Trinity is shown in the NT (shown here).

And Jesus said:
". . .baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit," (Mt 28:19)
 
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