Trinity isn't a trinity. It's a duality.

[Delvianna]

LOL "Okay, so we have 1 attribution, God's spirit. Specifically "God's". It's not listed as the "Holy Spirit", it's very specific, "God's".
I find this very interesting statement because you failed to look at all Gospels that have speak on the Baptism of Jesus . John chapter one, John the Baptist bore record John1:32 "32 And John bore witness, saying, “I saw the Spirit descending from heaven like a dove, and He remained upon Him. "
The word "Spirit" is capitalized which signifies the Holy Spirit.

Luke chapter 3:22

"22 And the Holy Spirit descended in bodily form like a dove upon Him, and a voice came from heaven which said, “You are My beloved Son; in You I am well pleased.”
AS we read the full Gospels account, we get a very clear Picture of who the "Spirit" is recorded in John chapter 1. It is the Holy Spirit.

"I don't have the patience when people cannot stick to a request and instead of countering what I said about the verse at hand, just constantly want me to look elsewhere and overload with verses. This is impossible to talk about if you're going to overload me with verses."

If you lack the ability to explain your position and then try to ignore the full word of God that states "The Holy Spirit as you suggested was NOT the Holy Spirit. I have no patience with you either.
"So please, either stick to where I started and be considerate, or I can't reply to you because I'm trying to prevent this from being convoluted and chaotic and you're making it chaotic."
What you really want is me to cut out the text in the word of God that proves your in error. The only Chaotic thing you are tying to mask over is those who know the word of God and refute your comment with the word of God.
AS I said You nor I can fully know all there is to the Eternal Godhead. The Father is God seen in the Word, The Son is God seen in the word of God, The Holy Spirit is God seen in the word of God. WE are all limited to full know all of God outside of the means HE provided for us to know him. That is you too.
The Father as God

• 1 Corinthians 8:6 – “Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.”
• Ephesians 4:4–6 – “There is one body and one Spirit… one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.”

The Son as God

• John 1:1–3 – “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… All things were made through him…”
• John 10:30 – “I and the Father are one.”
• Colossians 2:9 – “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”
• Isaiah 9:6 – “For to us a child is born… and he will be called… Mighty God, Everlasting Father…”

The Holy Spirit as God

• 2 Corinthians 3:17 – “Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.”
• Matthew 28:19 – “Baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”
• John 14:26 – “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things…”

Unity in the Godhead

• Matthew 28:19 – Shows the equal standing of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the mission of the Church
• 2 Corinthians 13:14 – “May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.”

These verses together affirm that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, while also revealing their unity in one divine essence. This is the biblical basis for the doctrine of the Trinity, though the full mystery is beyond complete human explanation or your ability to fully know all.

I literally responded to the verse you listed and you're acting like I didn't. Did you not see the beginning of my response to you because you'd rather attack instead of have a discussion? I already explained to you twice. Once in the OP, once in a response as to why I'm asking to not be overloaded so we can discuss this and it not get chaotic. But since you'd just rather rant and laugh at my response, I'd rather no longer discuss this with YOU. Your attitude is incredibly disrespectful and not at ALL Christ-like.

God Bless.

 

[Delvianna]

Trinity or duality?:

All I know is Humility In The GodHead! - According To The Scriptures:

1) The SON Humbly Submitted To The Father, and Was Sent To earth, as The Humble Servant!
(Luke 4:18; John 5:30, 5:36-37, 6:39, 6:44, 6:57, 7:29, 20:21 AV)

2) The Holy Spirit Was Doubly Humble, Being Sent By Both The Father And The SON!!
(John 14:26, 15:26 AV)

Excellent Examples For the saints, eh?

And, precious friend(s), Please Be Very Richly Encouraged and Edified
In The Lord Jesus Christ and In His Precious Word Of Truth, Rightly
Divided:

The Bible: The BIG Picture

Amen.

Sorry, I'm going to pass in response to you.

Why is it so difficult to stick to what I started with instead of pointing into a dozen of things in other directions? I literally ASKED and explained why. I didn't want this to get chaotic or convoluted. But so far, NONE of you seem to care and instead resort to bible bashing and laughing.

I swear... this site is a joke. You all claim Christianity but don't ACT like it.

 

[CS1]

I literally responded to the verse you listed and you're acting like I didn't. Did you not see the beginning of my response to you because you'd rather attack instead of have a discussion? I already explained to you twice. Once in the OP, once in a response as to why I'm asking to not be overloaded so we can discuss this and it not get chaotic. But since you'd just rather rant and laugh at my response, I'd rather no longer discuss this with YOU. Your attitude is incredibly disrespectful and not at ALL Christ-like.

God Bless.

NO, I'm sorry you did not. I clearly posted what you said from Matthew chapter 3 and your rebuke of not knowing Grammatical language.
its only chaotic because you failed to prove your point. You say I am ranting LOL, yet you did just that. It's fine you know longer want to discuss this with me and now result to name calling. it's easy for you to do so when you can't refute what was said from the word of God that proved you are incorrect about Dualism.

Please read again for your edification God bless you too as you do.

The Father as God

• 1 Corinthians 8:6 – “Yet for us there is but one God, the Father, from whom all things came and for whom we live; and there is but one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom all things came and through whom we live.”
• Ephesians 4:4–6 – “There is one body and one Spirit… one Lord, one faith, one baptism; one God and Father of all, who is over all and through all and in all.”

The Son as God

• John 1:1–3 – “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God… All things were made through him…”
• John 10:30 – “I and the Father are one.”
• Colossians 2:9 – “For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form.”
• Isaiah 9:6 – “For to us a child is born… and he will be called… Mighty God, Everlasting Father…”

The Holy Spirit as God

• 2 Corinthians 3:17 – “Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.”
• Matthew 28:19 – “Baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit.”
• John 14:26 – “But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you all things…”

Unity in the Godhead

• Matthew 28:19 – Shows the equal standing of Father, Son, and Holy Spirit in the mission of the Church
• 2 Corinthians 13:14 – “May the grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.”

These verses together affirm that the Father is God, the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, while also revealing their unity in one divine essence. This is the biblical basis for the doctrine of the Trinity, though the full mystery is beyond complete human explanation or your ability to fully know all.

 

[Aaron56]

This was briefly mentioned on another thread, so I wanted to bring it up here so we didn't detour the other thread.

So, my belief is that there is a duality to the God-head, not a trinity. The Father + Jesus. It's not that I don't believe in the "Holy Spirit", but I specifically link it to the Father and Jesus's spirit combined, not that it by itself is it's own person.

This is going to get complicated... so I'm going to do my best to make 1 point first before we go all over the place. So I'm asking to anyone who replies to my OP, to stick with this 1 point first as the main focus, otherwise trying to have a conversation about this is going to get chaotic.

So let's start with this one verse and build an argument around it. Feel free to build an argument against my conclusion but I want to start by focusing on this 1 verse.



Okay, let's break this down:

• Jesus is speaking, so we can take what He says with authority.
• He only mentions the Father making a home with Him. There is no 3rd party mentioned as a person.
• As a person, you yourself have a spirit. This is what continues to live when your body dies. So mention of a spirit, has to mention a person. You cannot have a spirit without a person-hood. Because a person has their own thoughts, emotions, speech, etc. So when there is a mention of person-hoods, the "Holy Spirit" is left out of that mix. (In this verse. If the Holy Spirit is it's own person-hood, why is it left out?)
• So any mention of the "Holy Spirit" in scripture would be in mention of The Father + Christ or any combination of the mix.

Maybe you're getting hung up "make our home with him"? We're not building a guest suite on our house so He can "move in". This is a spiritual matter.

 

[CS1]

@Delvianna I appreciate your attention to this. It's something worth visiting. We should remember that the Nicene Creed is not from the scriptures but from the Roman Church. Given its history of war, woman and child abuse, the killing of the saints, etc., we should be wary of any universal declaration that comes out from them.

I believe in the Trinity, just not how the Romans defined it in the Nicene Creed.

Those who are led by the Spirit of God should have several problems with the Nicene Creed, IMO.
1. It was presided over by a politician whose main concern was the cohesion and longevity of the Roman Empire.
2. It states "And in one Lord Jesus Christ... being of one substance with the Father..." We should ask "What is the substance of God, Who is Spirit?" Furthermore, what is the "substance" of people who are included in Christ? We are certainly "His flesh and His bones" but not His natural "flesh and bones".
3. Lastly, in the line "I believe in one holy catholic and apostolic Church" the office of "prophet" is missing according to Ephesians 2:20.

These are just off the top of my head.

Hey Aaron56 what issue do you see with the Nicene Creed?
I thank you for your answer in advance

 

[Aaron56]

Hey Aaron56 what issue do you see with the Nicene Creed?
I thank you for your answer in advance

Of course my friend. First is the impetus for it. Constantine, at the time the preeminent Roman politician, convened the meeting. The reason is cited is Constantine's first strike to resolve the Arian Heresy. From historical accounts, he wasn't even a believer at the time the council was convened (325). Only later, on his deathbed, is it recorded that he became a believer. That was a dozen years after the first council, in 337. I just don't believe

I believe he convened the council to preserve the Empire. At the time he created the Edict of Toleration (313), belief in Christ was found in 10% of the population. Believers were the largest, homogeneous group that stretched across regional and tribal boundaries. It was magnificently multi-cultural (many people from different backgrounds and traditions) and many people began walking in the way of the Kingdom of God in spite of their lineage. All of this, in spite of the systematic, government-funded, legal persecution and murder of believers. The view from heaven was that the church had already conquered the Roman Empire from within.

As for the creed itself, the first pass (325) was this:

We believe in one God, the Father almighty, Maker of heaven and earth,
and of all things visible and invisible.
And in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God, the only-begotten,
begotten of the Father before all ages.
Light of Light, true God of true God, begotten not made,
of one essence with the Father by whom all things were made;
who for us men and for our salvation, came down from heaven,
and was incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary
and became man.
And He was crucified for us under Pontius Pilate,
and suffered, and was buried.
And the third day He rose again, according to the Scriptures;
and ascended into heaven, and sits at the right hand of the Father;
and He shall come again with glory to judge the living and the dead;
whose Kingdom shall have no end.
And in the Holy Spirit.

As division persisted, a new council was formed and they produced the following creed (in 381) that is the accepted version today.

I believe in one God,
the Father almighty,
maker of heaven and earth,
of all things visible and invisible.

I believe in one Lord Jesus Christ,
the Only Begotten Son of God,
born of the Father before all ages.
God from God, Light from Light,
true God from true God,
begotten, not made, consubstantial with the Father;
through him all things were made.
For us men and for our salvation
he came down from heaven,
and by the Holy Spirit was incarnate of the Virgin Mary,
and became man.
For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate,
he suffered death and was buried,
and rose again on the third day
in accordance with the Scriptures.
He ascended into heaven
and is seated at the right hand of the Father.
He will come again in glory
to judge the living and the dead
and his kingdom will have no end.

I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Lord, the giver of life,
who proceeds from the Father and the Son,
who with the Father and the Son is adored and glorified,
who has spoken through the prophets.

I believe in one, holy, catholic and apostolic Church.
I confess one Baptism for the forgiveness of sins
and I look forward to the resurrection of the dead
and the life of the world to come.

Amen.

The additions buttressed the hegemony of the Roman Church authority. This was strategic: belief in Christ continued to spread. Having authority over the converts was both politically and financially expedient.

However, the line "consubstantial with the Father" attempts to emphasize what Christ is vs what He means to the world. This is a pattern of Roman polytheism: to make certain gods greater than other gods. Also, what is the "substance" of God who is Spirit? (Of course Christ is God, the Father is God, and the Spirit is God.)

I'm still meditating on this so I may post more later.