This is a reply to Fishbait's article.
This writing is not to prove to you that you are wrong or to point fingers. We are all here to learn the Truth about God and Jesus, as we all have an interest in Them and what will happen to us in future as we are all unsure of what the future holds in for us. I believe that we all did not come onto this site to deliberately cause friction and have verbal wars with each other but to learn the Truth which you hoped to find here. I do not believe that you have been on this site just to say your say and walk off without hearing whether your statements are in fact correct or not or have been accepted or not. This all indicates that you have the desire to learn and you are here to find the Truth, am I right or not?
Before you read any further, I want you to imagine that this is your first encounter with the Bible and forget for a moment everything that you have heard or read regarding this matter and start afresh. Be in a positive mode and do not let any negative thoughts come through your mind. Remember, this is your first encounter and please be honest to yourself about it.
The Bible is not a book on riddles and silly games. It is a book containing the Truth and it is not hidden. It is a book that has been compiled by normal people who searched through thousands of scriptures to find those scriptures that will point to the existence of God, how this earth and man etc have been created, how man was tricked by Satan, how God had a Salvation Plan in place to save man, how He will destroy the one who tricked His children and those who did not follow God as they should have, and what the results will be at the end of the day namely the saved on the new earth. The fact that men were involved in the compilation and translation of the Bible, certain errors did occur as no two people will translate a piece that is written in a symbol/picture type scripture, exactly the same. The translated piece however will convey the message but exactness will not always be the case. So, to do a study on any subject in the Bible, you need to refer to all the texts that relates to a subject and to study them intensely. Once you have gone through them all, you need to sit back and try to create the whole picture of what you have studied, to see if it gels with the rest of the Bible and if it is logical and it makes sense. If there are any unclear picture, it means that you have missed something somewhere and need to rethink the whole issue. It needs to make sense to you.
The Bible teaches us that he who believes that Jesus came in the flesh, that He is the Son of God and that He is the Christ, is from God and God will be within him and is born out of God. 1 Joh 4:2,15, 1 Joh 5:1.
God confirmed that Jesus is His Son. Luk 9:35, Mat 3:17, that He sent Him to this world Joh 17:3,21,23; 1 Joh 4:10; Joh 6:38
This simple example where the fact that Jesus, the Son of God, has been twisted to Jesus being God, has created so much other riddles or unresolved questions and it is not a matter that only one day we will find out what the real Truth is whilst we have the Truth right now.
1. "Jesus did not create Himself. He is however, the first creation of God. Anything wrong with my statement?" Yes.
Your answer should be No. Jesus is the first creation of God. He was created by God in heaven, before the angels or anything else ie, creatures, were created. Col 1:15 This text indicates clearly that even before mankind and all living creatures on the earth, Jesus has been created as the first creation.
2. The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God.
You cannot put your own words in the Bible and then make an assumption based on that. By you adding “God” to “I am”, you have created the opening of fraud. What if you replaced the word God with any other word ie. Satan, would you accept that as well? I doubt that and then to make an assumption on that statement? Remember also the translator’s role here. It could have been correct, incorrect or misinterpreted. When somebody asks you, who are you? You will start with your reply “I am”. Does that make you God, No.
When Jesus did say “I and the Father are one” does not mean that Jesus claimed to be God. He and God had the same ideas, thoughts and the same love for Their creation and that is what I believe, is meant here. Remember, God sent Jesus to this earth to reveal God. That is part of God’s Salvation Plan.
John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” Therefore, Jesus is God! ………………….Jesus gave up His deityJoh 17:5e
Here again you have ignored the word “was” and replaced it with “is”. I agree that when God created Jesus Christ as the first born, He had all the same characteristics of God and was a God with God, ie the Word was with God and the Word was God. The word “was“ indicates past tense. God sent Jesus to reveal God and the only way that would work was to send Jesus, His Son, in the flesh, which is a lower form as God, which also then means that Jesus had to give up His deity status to become man on earth. God has no blood but Jesus did, as He was man. Jesus was prepared to die for mankind to show His love to God and mankind, to take all the sins on His shoulders to give mankind a chance to be in heaven one day. If Jesus did not come to this earth, the existence of God etc will all still be just stories and fables and there will be no salvation for mankind.
3. “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
The fact that Jesus has gone through the whole process of giving up His deity, becoming man and died on the cross for our sins, returning to God on the cloud and is now sitting on the right hand side of God, is a way to show mankind that God accepted that Jesus is His Son, also a God which He was before He came to earth, also a separate entity. It does not indicate that Jesus is God the Father.
4. An angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him
The word “worship” is one of the meanings of the translated words. It could also mean, serve, bow down, kiss, venerate, to do, to make an idol, which immediately paints a whole different picture of the actual meaning. You can therefore not again assume that Jesus is God.
His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world. A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.
Again, your assumption causes a problem. As God is not of flesh but a Spirit, He cannot die, as He does not have blood and a heart. If Jesus is God, then the crucifixion was a bluff as the blood could not flow to wash the sins away but in this case there was blood which means that Jesus was man on the cross, the real thing, and that Satan will have NO factual evidence that Jesus was God on the cross and His death was a bluff to mankind. How does Satan work? He works through people/churches to deceive people as he has lost his battle to be part of the kingdom of God and he now focuses on God’s children to get them all on his side and the only way to do it is to plant the seed of deceiving or non-truth. His whole goal is to destroy God’s children and we have to very aware of this. Any negativity, deceiving, lies etc. are all works of Satan. Do not be fooled by him.
The Bible has been given to us to study the Word of God and it has been confirmed by many across the world that that is all we need to find the Truth. There are no uncertainties who Jesus Christ is and who God is. They are two individual entities and once you have that understanding and accept it, will you be able to explain the problems texts that you now have above. Some texts you may read to see that They are indeed two individual entities are Mat 27:54; Joh 1:9,34-37; 1 Cor 8:6, 1 Cor 3:23
Incidentally, the Bible teaches us that the one who does not believe that Jesus is the Christ, is the antichrist and a liar. 1 Joh 2:22. The Bible does not teach that the one who does not believe that Jesus is God, is the antichrist and a liar.
This writing is not to prove to you that you are wrong or to point fingers. We are all here to learn the Truth about God and Jesus, as we all have an interest in Them and what will happen to us in future as we are all unsure of what the future holds in for us. I believe that we all did not come onto this site to deliberately cause friction and have verbal wars with each other but to learn the Truth which you hoped to find here. I do not believe that you have been on this site just to say your say and walk off without hearing whether your statements are in fact correct or not or have been accepted or not. This all indicates that you have the desire to learn and you are here to find the Truth, am I right or not?
Before you read any further, I want you to imagine that this is your first encounter with the Bible and forget for a moment everything that you have heard or read regarding this matter and start afresh. Be in a positive mode and do not let any negative thoughts come through your mind. Remember, this is your first encounter and please be honest to yourself about it.
The Bible is not a book on riddles and silly games. It is a book containing the Truth and it is not hidden. It is a book that has been compiled by normal people who searched through thousands of scriptures to find those scriptures that will point to the existence of God, how this earth and man etc have been created, how man was tricked by Satan, how God had a Salvation Plan in place to save man, how He will destroy the one who tricked His children and those who did not follow God as they should have, and what the results will be at the end of the day namely the saved on the new earth. The fact that men were involved in the compilation and translation of the Bible, certain errors did occur as no two people will translate a piece that is written in a symbol/picture type scripture, exactly the same. The translated piece however will convey the message but exactness will not always be the case. So, to do a study on any subject in the Bible, you need to refer to all the texts that relates to a subject and to study them intensely. Once you have gone through them all, you need to sit back and try to create the whole picture of what you have studied, to see if it gels with the rest of the Bible and if it is logical and it makes sense. If there are any unclear picture, it means that you have missed something somewhere and need to rethink the whole issue. It needs to make sense to you.
The Bible teaches us that he who believes that Jesus came in the flesh, that He is the Son of God and that He is the Christ, is from God and God will be within him and is born out of God. 1 Joh 4:2,15, 1 Joh 5:1.
God confirmed that Jesus is His Son. Luk 9:35, Mat 3:17, that He sent Him to this world Joh 17:3,21,23; 1 Joh 4:10; Joh 6:38
This simple example where the fact that Jesus, the Son of God, has been twisted to Jesus being God, has created so much other riddles or unresolved questions and it is not a matter that only one day we will find out what the real Truth is whilst we have the Truth right now.
1. "Jesus did not create Himself. He is however, the first creation of God. Anything wrong with my statement?" Yes.
Your answer should be No. Jesus is the first creation of God. He was created by God in heaven, before the angels or anything else ie, creatures, were created. Col 1:15 This text indicates clearly that even before mankind and all living creatures on the earth, Jesus has been created as the first creation.
2. The Bible never records Jesus saying the precise words, “I am God.” That does not mean, however, that He did not proclaim that He is God.
You cannot put your own words in the Bible and then make an assumption based on that. By you adding “God” to “I am”, you have created the opening of fraud. What if you replaced the word God with any other word ie. Satan, would you accept that as well? I doubt that and then to make an assumption on that statement? Remember also the translator’s role here. It could have been correct, incorrect or misinterpreted. When somebody asks you, who are you? You will start with your reply “I am”. Does that make you God, No.
When Jesus did say “I and the Father are one” does not mean that Jesus claimed to be God. He and God had the same ideas, thoughts and the same love for Their creation and that is what I believe, is meant here. Remember, God sent Jesus to this earth to reveal God. That is part of God’s Salvation Plan.
John reiterates the concept of Jesus’ deity: “The Word [Jesus] was God” Therefore, Jesus is God! ………………….Jesus gave up His deityJoh 17:5e
Here again you have ignored the word “was” and replaced it with “is”. I agree that when God created Jesus Christ as the first born, He had all the same characteristics of God and was a God with God, ie the Word was with God and the Word was God. The word “was“ indicates past tense. God sent Jesus to reveal God and the only way that would work was to send Jesus, His Son, in the flesh, which is a lower form as God, which also then means that Jesus had to give up His deity status to become man on earth. God has no blood but Jesus did, as He was man. Jesus was prepared to die for mankind to show His love to God and mankind, to take all the sins on His shoulders to give mankind a chance to be in heaven one day. If Jesus did not come to this earth, the existence of God etc will all still be just stories and fables and there will be no salvation for mankind.
3. “But about the Son he says, ‘Your throne, O God, will last forever and ever, indicating that Jesus is indeed God.
The fact that Jesus has gone through the whole process of giving up His deity, becoming man and died on the cross for our sins, returning to God on the cloud and is now sitting on the right hand side of God, is a way to show mankind that God accepted that Jesus is His Son, also a God which He was before He came to earth, also a separate entity. It does not indicate that Jesus is God the Father.
4. An angel instructed the apostle John to only worship God (If Jesus were not God, He would have told people to not worship Him
The word “worship” is one of the meanings of the translated words. It could also mean, serve, bow down, kiss, venerate, to do, to make an idol, which immediately paints a whole different picture of the actual meaning. You can therefore not again assume that Jesus is God.
His death would not have been sufficient to pay the penalty for the sins of the world. A created being, which Jesus would be if He were not God, could not pay the infinite penalty required for sin against an infinite God. Only God could take on the sins of the world (2 Corinthians 5:21), die, and be resurrected, proving His victory over sin and death.
Again, your assumption causes a problem. As God is not of flesh but a Spirit, He cannot die, as He does not have blood and a heart. If Jesus is God, then the crucifixion was a bluff as the blood could not flow to wash the sins away but in this case there was blood which means that Jesus was man on the cross, the real thing, and that Satan will have NO factual evidence that Jesus was God on the cross and His death was a bluff to mankind. How does Satan work? He works through people/churches to deceive people as he has lost his battle to be part of the kingdom of God and he now focuses on God’s children to get them all on his side and the only way to do it is to plant the seed of deceiving or non-truth. His whole goal is to destroy God’s children and we have to very aware of this. Any negativity, deceiving, lies etc. are all works of Satan. Do not be fooled by him.
The Bible has been given to us to study the Word of God and it has been confirmed by many across the world that that is all we need to find the Truth. There are no uncertainties who Jesus Christ is and who God is. They are two individual entities and once you have that understanding and accept it, will you be able to explain the problems texts that you now have above. Some texts you may read to see that They are indeed two individual entities are Mat 27:54; Joh 1:9,34-37; 1 Cor 8:6, 1 Cor 3:23
Incidentally, the Bible teaches us that the one who does not believe that Jesus is the Christ, is the antichrist and a liar. 1 Joh 2:22. The Bible does not teach that the one who does not believe that Jesus is God, is the antichrist and a liar.