Trouble Understanding

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PerfectlyImperfect

Senior Member
Jun 21, 2017
264
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I'm having a little trouble understanding Hebrew 12:2.

Hebrew 12:2 NIV fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

I'm trying to figure out if the joy laid out before him was God's throne, or if was that we may be made righteous in his blood???

I'm not sure, please don't crucify me no pun intended!
 
I'm having a little trouble understanding Hebrew 12:2.

Hebrew 12:2 NIV fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

I'm trying to figure out if the joy laid out before him was God's throne, or if was that we may be made righteous in his blood???

I'm not sure, please don't crucify me no pun intended!


Since Jesus was already intimately familiar with God's throne, I take it to mean he was looking toward the joy of having his church established... the joy of being the sacrificial lamb for all of mankind....
 
Since Jesus was already intimately familiar with God's throne, I take it to mean he was looking toward the joy of having his church established... the joy of being the sacrificial lamb for all of mankind....

Okay that what I was thinking as well, but the word joy threw me off a little bit. But it just shows me once again how magnificent Jesus really is! Thanks:D
 
I'm having a little trouble understanding Hebrew 12:2.

Hebrew 12:2 NIV fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

I'm trying to figure out if the joy laid out before him was God's throne, or if was that we may be made righteous in his blood???

I'm not sure, please don't crucify me no pun intended!
We all experience joy when we hold onto God's law of love and experience it's results.
 
Before the casting down of the world God was reconciling the world unto himself in Christ.....For God so loved the world.....I would say it contains many facets....

The redemption of humanity
He inherits ALL things
To please his Father
The rule of his kingdom
etc....

The encapsulated package if you will.......
 
Before the casting down of the world God was reconciling the world unto himself in Christ.....For God so loved the world.....I would say it contains many facets....

The redemption of humanity
He inherits ALL things
To please his Father
The rule of his kingdom
etc....

The encapsulated package if you will.......

Yes, it is becoming more and more clear to me now. Thank you
 
I'm having a little trouble understanding Hebrew 12:2.

Hebrew 12:2 NIV fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

I'm trying to figure out if the joy laid out before him was God's throne, or if was that we may be made righteous in his blood???

I'm not sure, please don't crucify me no pun intended!
What's the use of having that huge cross in my backyard if I can't crucify anyone on it? (Joking intended.)

Here's what my Dead Guys say about it:

Jamison, Faussett and Brown

for the joy ... set before him — namely, of presently after sitting down at the right hand of the throne of God; including besides His own personal joy, the joy of sitting there as a Prince and Savior, to give repentance and remission of sins. The coming joy disarmed of its sting the present pain.
cross ... shame — the great stumbling-block to the Hebrews. “Despised,” that is, disregarded.


John Gill


Who for the joy that was set before him; the word αντι, [sorry, my computer doesn't copy/paste ancient Greek, so figure if it's weird letters, it's probably not accurate, but it's ancient Greek] rendered "for"; sometimes signifies, in the room, or stead of, as in Mat_2:22 and is so rendered here in the Syriac and Arabic versions; and then the sense is, that Christ instead of being in the bosom of the Father, came into this world; instead of being in the form of God, he appeared in the form of a servant; instead of the glory which he had with his Father from eternity, he suffered shame and disgrace; instead of living a joyful and comfortable life on earth, he suffered a shameful and an accursed death; and instead of the temporal joy and glory the Jews proposed to him, he endured the shame and pain of the cross: sometimes it signifies the end for which a thing is, as in Eph_5:31 and may intend that, for the sake of which Christ underwent so much disgrace, and such sufferings; namely, for the sake of having a spiritual seed, a numerous offspring with him in heaven, who are his joy, and crown of rejoicing; for the sake of the salvation of all the elect, on which his heart was set; and for the glorifying of the divine perfections, which was no small delight and pleasure to him. And to this agrees the Chaldee paraphrase of Psa_21:1.


"O Lord, in thy power shall the King Messiah יחדי, "rejoice", and in thy redemption how greatly will he exult!''


And also because of his own glory as Mediator, which was to follow his sufferings, and which includes his resurrection from the dead, his exaltation at the right hand of God, and the whole honour and glory Christ has in his human nature; see Psa_16:8 and with a view to all this, he endured the cross; which is to be taken not properly for that frame of wood, on which he was crucified; but, improperly, for all his sufferings, from his cradle to his cross; and particularly the tortures of the cross, being extended on it, and nailed unto it; and especially the death of the cross, which kind of death he endured to verify the predictions of it, Psa_22:16 and to show that he was made a curse for his people; and this being a Roman punishment, shows that the sceptre was taken from Judah, and therefore the Messiah must be come; and that Christ suffered for the Gentiles, as well as Jews: and this death he endured with great courage and intrepidity, with much patience and constancy, and in obedience to the will of his Father: despising the shame; of the cross; for it was an ignominious death, as well as a painful one; and as he endured the pain of it with patience, he treated the shame of it with contempt; throughout the whole of his life, he despised the shame and reproach that was cast upon him; and so he did at the time of his apprehension, and when upon his trial, and at his death, under all the ignominious circumstances that attended it; which should teach us not to be ashamed of the reproach of Christ, but count it an honour to be worthy to suffer shame for his name.


And is set down at the right hand of the throne of God; Which is in heaven; and is expressive of the majesty and glory of God; and of the honour done to Christ in human nature, which is not granted to any of the angels: here Christ sits as God's fellow, as equal to him, as God, and as having done his work as man, and Mediator; and this may assure us, that when we have run out our race, we shall sit down too, with Christ upon his throne, and be at rest.

Adam Clarke

Who, for the joy that was set before him - The joy of fulfilling the will of the Father, Psa_40:6-8, etc., in tasting death for every man; and having endured the cross and despised the shame of this ignominious death, He is set down at the right hand of God, ever appearing in the presence of God for us, and continuing his exhibition of himself as our Sacrifice, and his intercession as our Mediator. See the notes on Heb_10:5, etc. There are different other explanations given of this clause, but I think that here offered is the most natural. It never can, in any sense, be said of Jesus that he endured the cross, etc., in the prospect of gaining an everlasting glory; when he had the fullness of that glory with the Father before the world began; Joh_17:5.


Adam Barnes

Who for the joy that was set before him - That is, who in view of all the honor which he would have at the right hand of God, and the happiness which he would experience from the consciousness that he had redeemed a world, was willing to bear the sorrows connected with the atonement.


Endured the cross - Endured patiently the ignominy and pain connected with the suffering of death on the cross.


Despising the shame - Disregarding the ignominy of such a mode of death. It is difficult for us now to realize the force of the expression, “enduring the shame of the cross,” as it was understood in the time of the Saviour and the apostles. The views of the world have changed, and it is now difficult to divest the “cross” of the associations of honor and glory which the word suggests, so as to appreciate the ideas which encompassed it then. There is a degree of dishonor which we attach to the guillotine, but the ignominy of a death on the cross was greater than that; there is disgrace attached to the block, but the ignominy of the cross was greater than that; there is a much deeper infamy attached to the gallows, but the ignominy of the cross was greater than that. And that word - the cross - which when now proclaimed in the ears of the refined, the intelligent, and even the frivolous, excites an idea of honor, in the ears of the people of Athens, of Corinth, and of Rome, excited deeper disgust than the word “gallows” does with us - for it was regarded as the appropriate punishment of the most infamous of mankind.


We can now scarcely appreciate these feelings, and of course the declaration that Jesus “endured the cross, despising the shame,” does not make the impression on our minds in regard to the nature of his sufferings, and the value of his example, which it should do. When we now think of the “cross,” it is not of the multitude of slaves, and robbers, and thieves, and rebels, who have died on it, but of the one great Victim, whose death has ennobled even this instrument of torture, and encircled it with a halo of glory. We have been accustomed to read of it as an imperial standard in war in the days of Constantine, and as the banner under which armies have marched to conquest; it is intermingled with the sweetest poetry; it is a sacred thing in the most magnificent cathedrals; it adorns the altar, and is even an object of adoration; it is in the most elegant engravings; it is worn by beauty and piety as an ornament near the heart; it is associated with all that is pure in love, great in self-sacrifice, and holy in religion. To see the true force of the expression here, therefore, it is necessary to divest ourselves of these ideas of glory which encircle the “cross,” and to place ourselves in the times and lands in which, when the most infamous of mankind were stretched upon it, it was regarded for such people as an appropriate mode of punishment. That infamy Jesus was willing to bear, and the strength of his confidence in God, his love for man, and the depth of his humiliation, was shown in the readiness and firmness with which he went forward to such a death.


And is set down at the right hand of the throne of God - Exalted to the highest place of dignity and honor in the universe; Mar_16:19 note; Eph_1:20-22 notes. The sentiment here is, “Imitate the example of the great Author of our religion. He, in view of the honor and joy before him, endured the most severe sufferings to which the human frame can be subjected, and the form of death which is regarded as the most shameful. So amidst all the severe trials to which you are exposed on account of religion, patiently endure all - for the glorious rewards, the happiness and the triumph of heaven, are before you.”


Seems to me that Jesus was happy he did his Father's will for us.

(And, should I put away that cross out back?)
 
What's the use of having that huge cross in my backyard if I can't crucify anyone on it? (Joking intended.)

Here's what my Dead Guys say about it


Seems to me that Jesus was happy he did his Father's will for us.

(And, should I put away that cross out back?)


Lol, I'm not to sure on the cross thing. However, thank you for these helpful interpretations they are much appreciated!
 
Is this your way of saying, Jesus experienced joy simply because he was obeying his father's commands?
That is a hard question to answer. The Lord's creation is a beautiful one, and one must understand this from a spiritual point of view, but it is by obeying the Lord's commands that we enter the Lord's kingdom - here on earth.
 
I'm having a little trouble understanding Hebrew 12:2.

Hebrew 12:2 NIV fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

I'm trying to figure out if the joy laid out before him was God's throne, or if was that we may be made righteous in his blood???

I'm not sure, please don't crucify me no pun intended!

I have looked at the verse by comparing it to a mother giving birth. For the joy laid before her (LATER), for the joy and reward of bringing a new life into the world, she bears the pain that has to come first to achieve this.
 
I have looked at the verse by comparing it to a mother giving birth. For the joy laid before her (LATER), for the joy and reward of bringing a new life into the world, she bears the pain that has to come first to achieve this.

That is a very interesting way to look at it! I never really would've thought to look at it like that, so thank you!
 
drawn out of many waters

rising out of living water

ff993.jpg

With joy you will draw water from the wells of salvation.
(Isaiah 12:3)​

for His inheritance, which He has redeemed from death

Just so, I tell you, there is joy before the angels of God
over one sinner who repents.

(Luke 15:10)
​


heavenly body, oh Holy Vine!


[video=youtube;G6Bm3ljOl1w]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6Bm3ljOl1w[/video]




 
Hebrews 12:2 (KJV) Looking unto Jesus the Author and Finisher of our faith, Who for the joy that was set before Him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.

Remember that we are still in the race from verse one.


Now we see where our goal is, and how we are to run that race. We have our spiritual eyes, and minds set on Jesus Christ who is the finisher of that race that we have entered, and it is by our faith, that "trust deed" from the last chapter, that we will complete the race.


God spoke the Word that was written down by the prophets, and Jesus Christ came into the world to be born of the flesh, to suffer and endure the cross, and in doing that He became the "finisher of our faith".


When Christ could see the joy that we would have, that alone allowed Him to endure the cross and the shame that came with it.


When Jesus Christ sat down at the right hand of the Father, that is when the Holy Spirit came to earth to be our comforter and Jesus Christ Himself became our advocate.


Jesus Christ is in heaven now, and he is the one that stands between you and Satan. He defends you from your enemies by His Spirit in this world age. While Jesus is our advocate in heaven, the Holy Spirit is here on earth to smooth over each of our paths, and He gives each of us the ability to walk our Christian life as we ought to and to endure our trials and temptations that we face in victory.


You will have the victory if you have the faith.
 
I'm having a little trouble understanding Hebrew 12:2.

Hebrew 12:2 NIV fixing our eyes on Jesus, the pioneer and perfecter of faith. For the joy set before him he endured the cross, scorning its shame, and sat down at the right hand of the throne of God.

I'm trying to figure out if the joy laid out before him was God's throne, or if was that we may be made righteous in his blood???

I'm not sure, please don't crucify me no pun intended!

Choose the second one. Jesus had a throne before He came and still does now. We are the addition to His family that Jesus did all of that for. In essence, Jesus planted a seed, His life, and we are the harvest of that seed.