True Born Again Christians Have Eternal Security

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CORRECTION:


My time for editing lapsed when I saw this error in my post. THIS is what I meant to say:

Not at all.
We DO have eternal life when we come to faith and are baptized. We HAVE passed from death to life.
However, the CONTEXT of Scripture does NOT say that this security is eternal. As 2 Peter 3:17 warns us - we can LOSE our secure position.

Still have issues.

1. Eternal life, the words means one has been given life, which will last eternally.
2. God did not call it conditional life. Your gospel teaches conditional life. not eternal life. Eternal life is not a religious symbol we can twist the meaning to make it something other than what it leterally says it is. it is a literal thing/. ETERNAL (forever) Life.

vs eternal death, which ALL who are not born again will suffer.


Those baptised by God himself into Christ and his body HAVE eternal life. As jesus said in john 6. they will

1. Live forever
2. Never die
3. never hunger or thirst
4. HAS (present tense) eternal life and will NEVER die
5. Will be raised by jesus himself. vs being delivered to him for judgment (death and hades)

you keep taking passages out of context. And totally ignoring other passages which contradict the very ones your using, because you have misinterpreted them
 
I see that you're living under the fallacy of OSAS.
The verses I presented show CLEARLY that you can lose your salvation.

The Greek word used for "knowledge" in Heb. 10:26-27 and 2 Pet. 2:20-22 is not simple gnosis (knowledge). The word used here is "Epignosis", which means a full, experiential knowledge. These verses are speaking to TRUE believers who lost their way - not people who were simply exposed to Christ.

maybe for you, but God promised me that God will never leave me nor forsake me and I have believed since the age of 12 and God so far never has even when it seems like it at times, but I know better.
 
your all acting as if I dont trust in GOD and that is NOT the case! But I do know what the scriptures say and it says that a person call fall away from GOD and not receive that salvation.

The person(s) that fall away never came to full term in belief to begin with, many just play Church Sister and at Judgment will be told to go away for Christ never knew them thos that have the wrong motive(s)
Those in Hebrews 5 and 6 cahpters are about ones not moving onto maturity in God through Christ and that there is no further repentance, That is all Folks. I am in him and he is in me period
 
your all acting as if I dont trust in GOD and that is NOT the case! But I do know what the scriptures say and it says that a person call fall away from GOD and not receive that salvation.

Oh Jinx I know you trust and I know you want to be found in him and you are no matter what anyone else says
 
Now you're performing Scriptural acrobatics. I gave the following list of verses that totally refute OSAS. Can you refute them?

Romans 11:22
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God's kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you to will be cut off.”
Paul is warning the faithful to REMAIN in God’s favor or they will lose their salvation. How can they lose what they never had?

Hebrews 10:26-27
“If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”
This is a clear warning that falling away from God will result in the loss of our salvation.

2 Peter 2:20-22
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.
Here, Peter illustrates that those who had a full, experiential knowledge (epignosei) of Christ can fall back into darkness and lose their salvation by their own doing.

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."
Paul is saying that he wrestles with his own fleshly desires so that he might not fall back into sin.

Matthew 10:22
All men will hate you because of me, but he who stands firm to the end will be saved.
Self-explanatory.

2 Peter 3:17
Therefore, dear friends, since you already know this, be on your guard so that you may not be carried away by the error of lawless men and fall from your secure position.
Peter is warning the faithful not to fall back into sin and lawlessness.

Rev. 3:5
He who overcomes will, like them, be dressed in white. I will never blot out his name from the book of life, but will acknowledge his name before my Father and his angels.
God cannot blot out a name that was never there in the first place. He is talking about those already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

Rev. 22:19
And if anyone takes words away from this book of prophecy, God will take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book.
How can God take away somebody’s share of heaven if they never had it to begin with? He is talking about those already saved and how they can LOSE their salvation.

[/QUOTE]

regardless of how you interpret these scriptures, when one believes period and god knows who these are God will see to it that we meet the full measure of God's requirements
[h=3]John 3:16[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Those that beleive dowaht is righteous in the sight of God period
 
Hello there church, the Hebrews 10 passage is talking about a Jew in the time of Jacob's trouble who takes the mark of the beast after they had received the love of the truth. You see there is no eternal security in the time of Jacob's trouble. Only the 144,000 Jews from the twelve tribes of the children of Israel. (See Revelation 7).

Also, the passage in 2 Peter 2:20-22 is talking about false prophets who knew of the truth, they knew of the way of salvation. But they never git saved. You have to read the whole passage to get the full context. Those two passages therefore do not prove that a Christian can lose his salvation. Today in the Church Age, Christians are sealed by the Holy Ghost (Eph. 1:13 & 4:30) Plus we are members of Christ's Body (1 Cor. 12:27) And we are bone of His bone and flesh of His flesh ( Eph. 5:30).
I agree we can't lose for since god is for us no one can truly be against us well they can but will not prosper. thought i might post all of ten to keep it in context since it is actually about the New Covenat that we are in today Hebrews 9:15-17 says so after the death of Christ.
today we look back to the cross where as King David looked forward, and how can I say thanks unless it is done hmmm!!!!!!
Psalm 100:4Enter into His gates with thanksgiving, And into His courts with praise. Be thankful to Him, and bless His name.


[h=3]Hebrews 10[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[h=3]Animal Sacrifices Insufficient[/h]10 For the law, having a shadow of the good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with these same sacrifices, which they offer continually year by year, make those who approach perfect. [SUP]2 [/SUP]For then would they not have ceased to be offered? For the worshipers, once purified, would have had no more consciousness of sins. [SUP]3 [/SUP]But in those sacrifices there is a reminder of sins every year. [SUP]4 [/SUP]For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and goats could take away sins.
[h=3]Christ’s Death Fulfills God’s Will[/h][SUP]5 [/SUP]Therefore, when He came into the world, He said:
“Sacrifice and offering You did not desire,
But a body You have prepared for Me.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin
You had no pleasure.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]Then I said, ‘Behold, I have come—
In the volume of the book it is written of Me—
To do Your will, O God.’”

[SUP]8 [/SUP]Previously saying, “Sacrifice and offering, burnt offerings, and offerings for sin You did not desire, nor had pleasure in them” (which are offered according to the law), [SUP]9 [/SUP]then He said, “Behold, I have come to do Your will, O God.” He takes away the first that He may establish the second. [SUP]10 [/SUP]By that will we have been sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
[h=3]Christ’s Death Perfects the Sanctified[/h][SUP]11 [/SUP]And every priest stands ministering daily and offering repeatedly the same sacrifices, which can never take away sins. [SUP]12 [/SUP]But this Man, after He had offered one sacrifice for sins forever, sat down at the right hand of God, [SUP]13 [/SUP]from that time waiting till His enemies are made His footstool. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For by one offering He has perfected forever those who are being sanctified.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But the Holy Spirit also witnesses to us; for after He had said before,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]“This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, says the Lord: I will put My laws into their hearts, and in their minds I will write them,” [SUP]17 [/SUP]then He adds, “Their sins and their lawless deeds I will remember no more.” [SUP]18 [/SUP]Now where there is remission of these, there is no longer an offering for sin.
[h=3]Hold Fast Your Confession[/h][SUP]19 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, having boldness to enter the Holiest by the blood of Jesus, [SUP]20 [/SUP]by a new and living way which He consecrated for us, through the veil, that is, His flesh, [SUP]21 [/SUP]and having a High Priest over the house of God, [SUP]22 [/SUP]let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience and our bodies washed with pure water. [SUP]23 [/SUP]Let us hold fast the confession of our hope without wavering, for He who promised is faithful. [SUP]24 [/SUP]And let us consider one another in order to stir up love and good works, [SUP]25 [/SUP]not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as is the manner of some, but exhorting one another, and so much the more as you see the Day approaching.
[h=3]The Just Live by Faith[/h][SUP]26 [/SUP]For if we sin willfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, [SUP]27 [/SUP]but a certain fearful expectation of judgment, and fiery indignation which will devour the adversaries. [SUP]28 [/SUP]Anyone who has rejected Moses’ law dies without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. [SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much worse punishment, do you suppose, will he be thought worthy who has trampled the Son of God underfoot, counted the blood of the covenant by which he was sanctified a common thing, and insulted the Spirit of grace? [SUP]30 [/SUP]For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine, I will repay,” says the Lord. And again, “The Lord will judge His people.” [SUP]31 [/SUP]It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]But recall the former days in which, after you were illuminated, you endured a great struggle with sufferings: [SUP]33 [/SUP]partly while you were made a spectacle both by reproaches and tribulations, and partly while you became companions of those who were so treated; [SUP]34 [/SUP]for you had compassion on me in my chains, and joyfully accepted the plundering of your goods, knowing that you have a better and an enduring possession for yourselves in heaven. [SUP]35 [/SUP]Therefore do not cast away your confidence, which has great reward. [SUP]36 [/SUP]For you have need of endurance, so that after you have done the will of God, you may receive the promise:
[SUP]37 [/SUP]“For yet a little while,
And He who is coming will come and will not tarry.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]Now the just shall live by faith;
But if anyone draws back,
My soul has no pleasure in him.”

[SUP]39 [/SUP]But we are not of those who draw back to perdition, but of those who believe to the saving of the soul
 
So, according to OSAS I can live like the devil and die a saint?

nope this is not what truly believing produces, for working at it by the energy of one's own flesh produces living like the devil. It keeps one in sin even if they decide not to, and so that one, who was me in the past, would do good and feel good about me, then fail again and get stressed out behind closed doors, God forbid anyone else to see this me a good ole boy going to Church reading his Bible and acting as if I am doing good
You see Jinx if one wants to escape this world and its sway todo good and act it one needs to forsake Flesh period because just even thinking about it either gets one to feel good about themselves if they choose good over evil and or distresses a person over the fact that they can't make the grade as what appears to be in other people. So one gets a self righteous attitude or a fake attitude that they are just fine when they are miserable, I ahve been there and done that and finally Isaw the verse KIam about to post and understoodfrom God waht it was that I was doing wrong
[h=3]Galatians 6:8[/h]New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]8 [/SUP]For he who sows to his flesh will of the flesh reap corruption, but he who sows to the Spirit will of the Spirit reap everlasting life.
And it was I had forsaken my trust and started trusting in my own efforts to be and stay saved
Hope you take this as food for thought between God and you
 

The prodigal son left his father, did he not?
How about the parable of the lost sheep?
The lost coin?


Jesus said no man can pluck the sheep out of His hand but He didn't say the sheep couldn't wander away and become lost again. Our free will remains intact after salvation.


and Starfield is it final I play want to be a million-aire and A. Says I am God because God will never leave me or forsake me.
I choose A. my final answer, and even though I am poor here in this world without money I am rich in Christ, knowing that God will and has always supplied my every need.
Do you not belive this. Then there was no need for Christ to go to the cross for he surely did not need to for himself did he?
 
I know one sure way to loos you salvation.

Rv14:9And the third angel followed them, saying with a loud voice, If any man worship the beast and his image, and receive his mark in his forehead, or in his hand,

10The same shall drink of the wine of the wrath of God
, which is poured out without mixture into the cup of his indignation; and he shall be tormented with fire and brimstone in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb:

11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.



Revelation 2:26 - And he that overcomes, and keeps my works to the end, to him will I give power over the nations
Revelation 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things

where does even this say that once we believed that we can fall away. Why would anyone want to ever leave once they see the whole truth in and of the Gospel in the completed cross where one has salvation by the resurrection. Too many i see are stuck at the death and have not moved ontothe new life that Christ came to give by the resurrection Wow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you all are ye still not carnal as Paul exclaimed to the Corinthians WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Read Corinthians and see our security in Christ our redemption
 
Well the moral of the parable is that a believer can become lost again wherein they would have to repent and return to the Lord. The prodigal son was characterised as dead (spiritually) while he was in the pigsty.Luke 15:24 "For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry". Therefore Jesus did not teach unconditional eternal security. It's a myth.



Are you saying that God is liable for our actions? If a believer backslides tomorrow it's God's fault?


Starfield when one is truly a beleiver who is it that carries on the good work that God began in them, God or you?
 
So a tribulation saint who takes the mark of the beast will still be saved?

a tribulation Saint will not take the Mark of any one else other than God through Christ period. This is not a playing around thing Sister, does God just love you or not? Do you think Godis just playing with us and is not truthful? Eitehr one believes orthey do not. This is the only thing Christ never died for is beleif. And today it is the Job of the holy Ghost to confirn in the believer truth, truth that sets one free not trying to a good person, for their is only one good and that is God period, and God chose by way of the cross to include you in God's family so doyou believe this or not?
John 16
[SUP]8 [/SUP]And when He has come, He will convict the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: [SUP]9 [/SUP]of sin, because they do not believe in Me; [SUP]10 [/SUP]of righteousness, because I go to My Father and you see Me no more; [SUP]11 [/SUP]of judgment, because the ruler of this world is judged.
Go ahead don't believer and stay stuck in your sins as I know you so desperately want to quit and can't, which leaves youand many others not worthy and thus think you can lose salvation
(Galatians6) (14) But God forbid that I should
glory, savein the cross of our Lord Jesus Christ,
by whom the world is crucified unto me, and I unto 
the world.(15) For in Christ Jesus. . . (I am) a new
creature.
 
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

Heb 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.



too many scriptures to tell us we can loose out with GOD, but really.... how many does it take? should only take ONE.

Do you not read verse 39
Heb 10:39 But we are not of them who draw back unto perdition; but of them that believe to the saving of the soul.

This waht i am trying to tell you we are not of those that draw back and you are saying you can be you allow room for the devil to creep in and control you through your dead flesh by the death of Christ or don't you know
Romans 6:4Therefore we were buried with Him through baptism into death, that just as Christ was raised from the dead by the glory of the Father, even so we also should walk in newness of life.
and Jinx without 100% belief in the operation of God one will not walk in the newness of life as we all are and have been called to
John 3 is very clear on being Born again Sister and I am not talking about speaking in tongues or anything of that sort Chrait is very sincere in what he said to Nicodemus and in John 10:10 he said he came to give life. so is this life in the Spirit or flesh?
Romans 6:11Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. this last verse is after the cross the others were before the cross.
 
I refuse to believe that complete salvation happens here on earth, but would rather believe that he who endures till the end shall be saved. Endures requires work on our part. Can't live like the devil and die a saint, even after a "sinners prayer"

there is no post that says we are tolive like the devil, that would be taking God's grace for granted and is why he said not all that call on him will be saved
Hebrews 2:3how shall we escape if we neglect so great a salvation, which at the first began to be spoken by the Lord, and was confirmed to us by those who heard Him,
Those that take it for granted and use this amazing salvation as a means to sin are not saved, they do not understand what this amazing grace is all about Sister. I understand you are in fear of sining again and have a fear of the Lord which is the begining for wisdom. Now Sister when one sees through to the resurrection the perfect love of God then casts out all fear, that is when one knows that they are in the palm of his hand and nothing could ever seperate them from God's LOVE as Paul said
very well
 
anyone have an aspirin? maybe a xanax? anyone?

sure Sister it is a lot to take in. bottom line here is a God-quill so you can rest medicine in him knowing God just plain and simply just love you personally, no flesh in his sight is pleasing to God
Romans 3:20Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.
Romans 7:5For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death.
So are you by belief inthe flesh or Spirit of God?
Now if you are in the Spirit of God then no sin is possible there is there? but always possible in and of the flesh yes?
so this is wht Paul has said we to be lieve we are dead in the flesh Romans 6,7 and then the solution in 8 where it says there is no condemnation for those in the spirit of Christ because Sister there is no more sin if one is on the Spirit.
So wher do you want to be in the Spirit of God or in the flesh?
Gal. 5 very clear on what to think after and waht one thinks after produces.
 
Well then you refuse to believe and trust in the Lord Jesus Christ's ability to keep you and preserve you. Not only that, you refuse to believe in the Holy Ghost's ability to seal you unto the day of redemption. The Bible teaches that a Christian is sealed with the Holy Spirit in both Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30. And you can believe what you want to believe jinx. But if a person has to perform to stay saved, than that salvation was never a free gift. Plus if a person had to perform to keep that salvation, than that salvation was never grace through faith without works to begin with. Aren't you beginning to see the problem of your belief system in regard to salvation? I am not trying to be mean here but you guys who continue to deny Eternal Security, basically what you guys do is make a liar out of God. You call God a liar when you keep espousing that a Christian can lose his salvation in the church age. We are either sealed like Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30 says or we are not. It's one or the other. And I choose to believe the Bible and trust what it says.

In addition, I don't know of any Bible preacher that defends eternal security, who teaches that you can live like the devil and get away with it. I do not know of ONE SINGLE Bible believing preacher and teacher who teaches such a thing. True Bible preachers who preach and teach eternal security never say you can live like the devil and get away with it. What they do teach is that you'll lose your rewards, your crown, your millennial inheritance, your joy, your testimony, your health, your money, and a lot of other things. You can even lose your life if you keep messing with sin. (Romans 6:23, Romans 8:6, 13 & 1 Cor. 3:17)

Just because a Christian cannot lose his salvation, does not mean he can't lose everything else. A Christian has a lot to lose, if he continues sowing to the flesh and feeding the carnal mind, and he keeps messing with sin, than that Christian will have absolutely nothing to show for it in Eternity. Don't you know our works will be judged at the Judgment Seat of Christ?
Again though, while a Christian can lose a lot of things, one thing he CANNOT and will NEVER lose is his salvation. He is part of Christ's Body (1 Cor. 12:27) and he is sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise (Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30).

and if i may add our works must at least be better than that of the Pharisees, you see even when we are stubborn and are sincere to do good works god still just loves us and reaching out as he did to cover the chicklets as a hen does her own, but they refused to believe and so they do not have salvation. You beleive so you do for God again is Faithful were we are not and know our weaknesses show God's strength so we glory in this as Paul did 2cor 12
 
maybe for you, but God promised me that God will never leave me nor forsake me and I have believed since the age of 12 and God so far never has even when it seems like it at times, but I know better.

Apparently, you misunderstood what I was saying.
God DOESN'T forsake us. WE forsake Him when we sin.
 
regardless of how you interpret these scriptures, when one believes period and god knows who these are God will see to it that we meet the full measure of God's requirements
John 3:16

New King James Version (NKJV)

[SUP]16 [/SUP]For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Those that beleive dowaht is righteous in the sight of God period

Ahhh, so in your view, God is a monster - a cosmic rapist who forces His love on us?
What a horrible god you've invented for yourself.