True Born Again Christians Have Eternal Security

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2Co 5:15 And that he died for all, that they which live should not henceforth live unto themselves, but unto him which died for them, and rose again. We go from being a "servant of sin" (ie. living according to the lusts of the flesh) to being a "servant if righteousness" (ie. walking according to the leading of the Spirit).
2Co 5:16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
2Co 5:17 Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. This verse is in the context of verse 15, as well as what Paul writes in Romans chapter 6 and 8 in regards to being set free from sin and thus becoming a servant of righteousness. It is not forensic or positional in any way whatsoever but is an ACTUAL CHANGE because the HEART HAS BEEN MADE CLEAN (via faith Act 15:9 through the blood Heb 9:14)
2Co 5:18 And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; Jesus reconciled the world to himself (see v. 19) thus giving us (the saints) the Ministry of Reconciliation by which sinners CAN BE reconciled to God through repentance and faith via the blood of Jesus Christ.
2Co 5:19 To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation.
2Co 5:20 Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God did beseech you by us: we pray you in Christ's stead, be ye reconciled to God. Being reconciled to God on an individual basis is not a done deal. One must meet the conditions or repentance and faith in order to be truly reconciled. Many false teachers ignore this verse and focus exclusively on verses 19 and 21 for they teach the heresy of salvation as PURELY POSITIONAL for they deny heart purity in salvation.
2Co 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him. We are made the righteousness of God IN Him for it is the Spirit of life IN Jesus Christ that we find salvation from sin (Rom 8:2).

Thus with the above in mind let's look at what you said...



You are viewing salvation as an abstract provision of having been set free from condemnation due to your perception that grace somehow cancels the righteous requirements of the law. This is error and I will explain to you why.

The righteous requirements of the law is still in full effect and those who are IN Christ FULFULL IT.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.
Rom 8:3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh:
Rom 8:4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.

In other words a Christian does not produce the fruit of righteousness because they are "under the law" in that they have to obey outward rules and regulations. No. A Christian is subservient to the leading of the Spirit which transforms the inner man and the righteousness thus flows from a heart that has been cleansed by God.

This is why Paul says things like...

Gal 2:20 I am crucified with Christ: nevertheless I live; yet not I, but Christ liveth in me: and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by the faith of the Son of God, who loved me, and gave himself for me.
Gal 2:21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Righteousness is through ABIDING IN CHRIST not of following rules and regulations. This is very important to understand for it lays at the root of what it means to be "under grace."

The false teachers have twisted the meaning of grace via introducing the Penal Substitution view of the atonement (a Reformed doctrine which is only 400 years old) whereby salvation is purely a forensic legal transaction. In other words Jesus was punished in your place for your guilt was credited to Him and His innocence was credited to you.

What the Penal Substitution doctrine does is supplant the true message of the cross with a deception which does not address the issue of iniquity within the heart thus resulting in the denial of heart purity in a believer.

The truth is that Christ died for you so that you can die with Him. When you die with Him (through repentance and faith) His blood then purges your conscience from your previous rebellion to God thus enabling you to be reconciled to God and given a fresh start.

Penal Substitution perverts the death of Christ into being a cloak for ongoing rebellion. This is why those who uphold Penal Substitution will defend being able to "sin and not surely die." Out of one side of their mouth they profess "Jesus is Lord" whilst out of the other they deny His teachings and preach "Ye Can Disobey God and NOT surely die."

I can tell you have fallen for this deception at least in part because you say things like this...



In one fell swoop you are teaching that what you do doesn't really matter in so far as obtaining the inheritance of eternal life. This is a stark denial of many scriptures like...

Rom 2:7 To them who by patient continuance in well doing seek for glory and honour and immortality, eternal life:

Gal 6:8 For he that soweth to his flesh shall of the flesh reap corruption; but he that soweth to the Spirit shall of the Spirit reap life everlasting.
Gal 6:9 And let us not be weary in well doing: for in due season we shall reap, if we faint not.

Eph 5:3 But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints;
Eph 5:4 Neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks.
Eph 5:5 For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God.
Eph 5:6 Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience.
Eph 5:7 Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

You are teaching that YOU CAN do those things that Paul listed and still inherit the kingdom.

Please believe the WHOLE COUNSEL of God and don't fall for those who isolate and proof text various verses completely out of their context.
You are verbose but wrong. Gal 2:21 I do not make void the grace of God for if righteousness come by the law then Christ is dead in vain. The law never could produce righteousness only death. Nothing abstract about that. Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish that having begun in the Spirit are ye now made perfect in the flesh? Gal 4:21 Tell me ye that desire to be under the law, Do you not hear the law? All the history of man testifies to the stark reality that man cannot be righteous under the law. Righteousness must be imputed by grace or there is no righteousness.
The whole counsel of God is of no value until one has a right knowledge of God's righteousness. Rom 10:3-4 Works have nothing to do with the righteousness that God demands.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Re: Do not Believe the Apostle's Doctrine !

Revelation 3:16-18

16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17] Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.


"Who is Jesus spewing (rejecting) out of his mouth?" and this has nothing to do with rewards.

They have to ignore these admonitions in other to defend the false doctrine. :rolleyes: *tsk tsk
 
"Why was Judas lost?" he had Salvation in the flesh just as did the other Eleven. Eternal security, I do not think so, unless someone can use scripture to explain away what happened to Judas. For all doubters, the thief (turned believer) on the cross and made it to paradise.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are. 12] While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Was Judas really ever with Christ? Does Judas represent old Israel who would deny Messiah? Judas is certainly like many today who polish a church pew for decades and never receive the truth of Gods word.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Let's put this to the test where the rubber meets the road.

Under your doctrine can a serial murderer STILL be engaged in acts of serial murder AFTER SALVATION?

Is that a possibility?

Or would the murdering have completely stopped?


Can you DIRECTLY answer that question?

Here is your dilemma. If you answer YES that the murdering will have ceased then you'll be admitting that CONDUCT is connected to salvation. If you answer NO then you'll be upholding that salvation is purely forensic and that conduct does not matter which, when taken in context of ongoing murder, show the fallacious nature of your doctrine.



Here is what the Bible teaches...

1Jn 3:1 Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: therefore the world knoweth us not, because it knew him not.
1Jn 3:2 Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is.
1Jn 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jn 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jn 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jn 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jn 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jn 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jn 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

It seems pretty clear to me.

:)

When a person gets saved, he is born again. He now has a new nature.

[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. - 2 Corinthians 5:17 (King James Bible)

Notice the Bible says If any man be in Christ.

You see Skinski, what you have today in a lot of these modern churches are simply professing Christians. Not all of them, but there are a lot of them who are false converts. They have never been truly born again nor have they been regenerated. So their profession simply does not hold up.

Many of the preachers of today are not preaching REPENTANCE. Nor are they preaching on the Damnation of Hell or God's coming wrath and judgment upon this wicked world.

Too much psychology has crept into the churches. And that's why today there are so many false converts.
A duck does not quack to become a duck. A duck quacks because he IS A DUCK.

Same thing with a Christian. A Christian doesn't do good works to get saved or to stay saved. A Christian does good works because he is saved. Because he has the new birth and he has been regenerated.That is why when I titled my thread, I titled it: TRUE Born Again Believers Have Eternal Security.

See, I had to make that clear.

Eternal Security of the Believer is Sound Doctrine. It is a Bible Doctrine. Anybody can take passages from Matthew, James and Hebrews to try to prove that a Christian can lose their salvation.

Okay it has been attempted many times before who simply refuse to believe Ephesians 1:13, Ephesians 4:30, Romans 4:4-5, and Titus 3:5.

A Christian CANNOT lose their salvation. It is not theirs to lose. A Christian has been bought with a price. A true Born again Christian is part of the purchased possession (Eph. 1:14) and is part of God's family.





 
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Re: Do not Believe the Apostle's Doctrine !

Revelation 3:16-18

16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17] Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.


"Who is Jesus spewing (rejecting) out of his mouth?" and this has nothing to do with rewards.

LivingEpistle, may it be possible that that passage of Scripture is referring to the Laodicean Church Age that we live in today?

What does the average preacher or televangelist make today?

They make a lot of money, don't they? After all, they are rich and increased with goods. All these multi-million dollar mega churches. TD Jakes, Joel Osteen, Robert Schuller, Rick Warren, Benny Hinn, Creflo Dollar, Paula White, etc.



You see, Jesus is knocking on the door because the modern churches have left Jesus outside.


[SUP]19 [/SUP]As many as I love, I rebuke and chasten: be zealous therefore, and repent.
[SUP]20 [/SUP]Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear my voice, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with me. - Revelation 3:19-20 (King James Bible)


Isn't that interesting? I mean read that verse. That's how bad the times have gotten where many of the modern churches are simply not preaching the Jesus of the Bible.


The idea that the average modern professing Christian has of God is that He is just this big lovable teddy bear up in Heaven that just loves everyone.

And please note my sarcasm. But that is how the average modern Christian and even the average lost person thinks when he thinks about God. And obviously that is not God. That is not the true God of the Bible.


People have created a god in their own image. Why? Because they don't like the God of the Bible. They don't know the God of the Bible.


God is not just love, but He is also Just and Holy.


And people don't really know the God of the Bible because they don't read their Bibles for themselves and because there is hardly any preaching on repentance these days. I did not say there is none. What I am saying is that you hardly hear it in terms of Christian Television, Christian Radio, etc. And if you go to a modern church, you are most likely not going to hear it being taught there either.


If you want good Biblical preaching. Then your going to have to do some searching on Youtube, and also on SermonAudio.com


You can still find some true preaching on both of these sites, and other sites as well. But I am more acquainted with Youtube and SermonAudio.com


So Revelation 3 does not teach that a true Born again Christian can lose his salvation, because that would then contradict both Ephesians 1:13 and Ephesians 4:30.


TRUE BORN AGAIN believers do indeed have Unconditional Eternal Security. It is unconditional because it is a gift of God. God did all the work, we just simply believed and trusted Him.


True Born again Christians are part of the Body of Christ. And Christ's Body does not get amputated just because of some Christian who makes a dumb decision to mess with sin and be carnal.


Read Ephesians 4 and Ephesians 5 in context.

 
Re: Do not Believe the Apostle's Doctrine !

Revelation 3:16-18

16] So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth.
17] Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:
18] I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.


"Who is Jesus spewing (rejecting) out of his mouth?" and this has nothing to do with rewards.


Also, some questions you should ask if a Christian can lose his salvation, then how does he get it back?


And if he gets it back, well, can he lose it again? I mean where is the cut off point?


See? To teach that a True Christian can lose their salvation is to set up a system of works. Where you have Christians over here who are "MORE SAVED" than those Christians over there who had a lot of struggles with their flesh. It creates a Teir Ranking System.


Remember Salvation and Sanctification are two different things. Sanctification is to come after salvation.


Because what good is holy and right living going to do for you if you are still lost and dead in sins and trespasses? The best that any person can do will land them straight on their back in Hell. Keep the main thing the main thing. Get saved first. Then focus on living right and living holy.

 
While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.

Notice what type of sin Judas committed and you will have 50% of the answer.

Judas sin was betrayal, some catholics believe that it was his dispair. which is a sin against the Holy Spirit Matthew 12:31
the only unforgivable sin is against the Holy Spirit.
So in other words, the only true sin is doubt of Jesus Christ ability to save you, which is what you are doing when you say ''oh well if you sin you lose your salvation, born again? lied to someone today?, SALVATION LOST.''" Which is what more than half of you are saying.
You are doubting Jesus when you say that bro.

But to play devils advocate ( horrible metaphor to use, i need a better one)
That betrayal of Jesus is the sin ( which would be any sin, as you are betraying him via sin)
BUT if that is the case, than what did the cross get us? nothing.
UNLESS we are now to a point of saying when you sin your salvation is lost, BUT you can then repent again, and bamn, saved again.
 
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With that train of thought, maybe I answered my own question, the cross saved us from punishment of our sins, IF we repent, but according to most of you, repentance is void if you sin again, so the next question here is, can you sin-repent be saved, sin- lose salvation, repent- gain salvation again. As stated by many we ARE NOT under works for salvation.
 
With that train of thought, maybe I answered my own question, the cross saved us from punishment of our sins, IF we repent, but according to most of you, repentance is void if you sin again, so the next question here is, can you sin-repent be saved, sin- lose salvation, repent- gain salvation again. As stated by many we ARE NOT under works for salvation.

Ephesians 2:8-9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast.

Romans 4:2If, in fact, Abraham was justified by works, he had something to boast about—but not before God.
Romans 9:12not by works but by him who calls—she was told, “The older will serve the younger.”
Romans 9:32Why not? Because they pursued it not by faith but as if it were by works. They stumbled over the stumbling stone.
Galatians 2:16know that a person is not justified by the works of the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by the works of the law, because by the works of the law no one will be justified.
Ephesians 2:9not by works, so that no one can boast.

Hope you get it, only God can reveal this to you. Now by and through Faith one will do works, but they willnot be your works, they will be God's works of Love through you, so one can only boast of God




 
If you are not eternally secure in Christ you maybe eternally lost. If Christ came that we who are saved can have peace and peace that passeth understanding it is hardly reasonable that He would allow doubt regarding our salvation. Even those who espouse this doctrinal error only ever see it in others and not themselves.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
If you are not eternally secure in Christ you maybe eternally lost. If Christ came that we who are saved can have peace and peace that passeth understanding it is hardly reasonable that He would allow doubt regarding our salvation. Even those who espouse this doctrinal error only ever see it in others and not themselves.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Yes you are right, I need to and all need to hopefully hold only themselves accountable as King david did when he said not only did he sin against the people but more importantly against God and God said a man after his own heart
And even at the garden, oh no Lord not nme it was that woman and the woman oh no not me it was that serpent. And nothing has changed when it comes to the flesh, the flesh always finds blame to blame someone else
No wonder we need new lifes here and now in the Spirit of God provided by the resurrection after the death secured the new Covenant we are in back to the original promise to Abraham, by Faith (beleif) in the living God WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So then let us all start to reckon
Romans 6:11In the same way, count yourselves dead to sin but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
Thanks foryour posts Roger
 
With that train of thought, maybe I answered my own question, the cross saved us from punishment of our sins, IF we repent, but according to most of you, repentance is void if you sin again, so the next question here is, can you sin-repent be saved, sin- lose salvation, repent- gain salvation again. As stated by many we ARE NOT under works for salvation.

The issue with sin/repent/sin/repent/sin/repent/sin/repent is that it demonstrates a lack of a genuine repentance.

There is godly sorrow and there is worldly sorrow.

Godly sorrow produces this...

2Co 7:11 For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

Wordly sorrow produces this...

Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

It is godly sorrow that works repentance unto salvation not to be regretted. In other words it is meant to occur ONE TIME.

2Co 7:10 For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

Both godly sorrow and worldly sorrow produce regret and consternation of sin. Yet both do not produce the genuine change of mind by which iniquity is purged from the soul (the axe being laid to the root).

Godly sorrow produces a carefulness, indignation over sin, a strong desire to make restitution, a fear of God, ultimately producing a CLEARING OF WRONGDOING in the heart for the root of iniquity is excised. The result is the genuine change of mind which leaves one in a submissive state to the leading of God.

The Bible says Esau sought repentance with tears yet did not find it and it used that example (of the physical) as an example of the spiritual to us in relation to a root of bitterness which defiles a soul.

Heb 12:13 And make straight paths for your feet, lest that which is lame be turned out of the way; but let it rather be healed.
Heb 12:14 Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
Heb 12:15 Looking diligently lest any man fail of the grace of God; lest any root of bitterness springing up trouble you, and thereby many be defiled;
Heb 12:16 Lest there be any fornicator, or profane person, as Esau, who for one morsel of meat sold his birthright.
Heb 12:17 For ye know how that afterward, when he would have inherited the blessing, he was rejected: for he found no place of repentance, though he sought it carefully with tears.

The writer of Hebrews is painting a picture of a genuine conversion to Christ. The result of a genuine repentance unto salvation is a single eye focused on God (Mat 6:22) which requires due diligence and produces the straight paths for the feel by which we follow peace and holiness. Esau exchanged his birthright in order to temporarily gratify his flesh the end of which was regret due to the long term consequences, yet unfortunately the root of iniquity which motivated such an exchange was not to be purged from Esau because he could not find a genuine repentance.

Many people caught in the sin/repent/sin/repent/sin/repent cycle are just like Esau. Their heart remains defiled although they go through bouts of worldly sorrow and yet any change of behaviour is more akin to law keeping because it is only a forced outward regimentation as opposed to the genuine heart purity resultant of genuine faith.

Many take repentance for granted in the sense that it is something that can be turned on at will. Such is not the case, genuine repentance is a work of God upon the soul of man and it requires a genuine broken contriteness. It is not something one can put off and say "i'll do it later" because it is not something done apart from the working of the grace of God (ie. man leading the way.) No! God initiates the draw on all men and if that draw is despised the ongoing rebellion (sin) hardens the heart with the likely end result being a reprobate mind (inward defiance which snuffs out the light of God/ie. God withdraws Himself and gives them over to their own carnality).

This is not to say that a second repentance is not possible, it is simply unlikely due to the defilement that is wrought. Which is why Peter gave warning...

2Pe 2:20 For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
2Pe 2:21 For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them.
2Pe 2:22 But it is happened unto them according to the true proverb, The dog is turned to his own vomit again; and the sow that was washed to her wallowing in the mire.

If one chooses to be a pig or a dog that is what they will be.

Of course what I have written above has no place in modern theology because repentance has been redefined to a confession of sinfulness as opposed to being completely broken on the rock of Christ. Thus the sin/repent/sin/repent/sin/repent cycle is considered normal, the only concern is if no "growth" (ie. sinning less) is made evident.
 
Comment in Blue.

You are verbose but wrong. Gal 2:21 I do not make void the grace of God for if righteousness come by the law then Christ is dead in vain. The law never could produce righteousness only death. Nothing abstract about that. I never claimed that was abstract. What is abstract is SALVATION as taught under modern evangelical theology. By that I mean is that PURITY OF HEART has been disconnected from SALVATION. Thus an individual CAN BE in a SAVED STATE and yet DEFILED WITHIN.

What I wrote has absolutely NOTHING to do with an opposition of "righteousness not being by the law." I agree with that. The law only serves to REGIMENT outward deeds whilst TRUE RIGHTEOUSNESS is wrought from a pure heart. A pure heart is produced through abiding in Jesus Christ, hence there is no righteousness apart from Christ.
Gal 3:3 Are ye so foolish that having begun in the Spirit are ye now made perfect in the flesh? Gal 4:21 Tell me ye that desire to be under the law, Do you not hear the law? All the history of man testifies to the stark reality that man cannot be righteous under the law. Righteousness must be imputed by grace or there is no righteousness. God imputes FAITH as righteousness. A FAITH THAT WORKS BY LOVE. In other words God LOOKS AT THE HEART and if the HEART IS CLEAN then God counts that as righteousness despite the fact that there is outward imperfections (ie. growing in grace and knowledge is still needed).
The whole counsel of God is of no value until one has a right knowledge of God's righteousness. Rom 10:3-4 Works have nothing to do with the righteousness that God demands. The WORK OF FAITH (1Th 1:3) has EVERYTHING to do with the righteousness that God demands. It is the WORKS OF THE LAW which have nothing to do with it.

If there is no inward purity there is no righteousness. He that DOES what is righteous is righteousness and it is a righteousness produced via abiding in the Spirit of life in Jesus Christ.



For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Skinsky7 What God creates the moment we are saved is pure. We are made the righteousness of God in Christ. You are able to see only the outside. God sees the inside. Even He sees Christ in us.
Righteousness is imputed not merited. Discipleship is a continuing process but salvation is complete the moment we believe and receive. True we await our glorification together with Christ but that is as certain as Christ died for us was buried and rose again the third day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Skinsky7 What God creates the moment we are saved is pure. We are made the righteousness of God in Christ. You are able to see only the outside. God sees the inside. Even He sees Christ in us.
Righteousness is imputed not merited. Discipleship is a continuing process but salvation is complete the moment we believe and receive. True we await our glorification together with Christ but that is as certain as Christ died for us was buried and rose again the third day.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

What exactly do you mean by pure?

A forensic positional purity?

Or

Genuine purity of heart?
 
Re: Do not Believe the Apostle's Doctrine !

Those who deny the Eternal Security of the True Believer, those who have believed through Grace [Because of Christ] Acts 18:27, then they deny Justification freely by God's Grace ! Rom 3:24

24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

Acts 13:39

39And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.

They are saying in essence, that a sinner being Justified by Grace, can if they are not careful, eventually be cast into hell with others who are unbelievers. They are saying those who have been Justified from all things, can if they are not careful, can have their portion in the Lake of Fire. So this means consequently one is not secure in Christ who has been Truly Justified by Grace..35
 
Why warnings then ?


Why the warnings and admonitions if believers are Eternally Secure ? It is the case with scripture, particularity in the NT, though not limited to it there are words of warning that are addressed to all, however the warnings are only applicable to some. This should always be kept in mind when reading scripture, and chiefly the NT, the Epistles, but again not limited to those only. In General an Epistle was addressed to a collective Assembly, some of which would be genuine converted believers, and some who were not and were in danger of apostasy. The warnings could never directly apply to the genuine believer, though the effect of it will serve to there good, as to wrought within them a carefulness as here 2 Cor 7:11a

For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves,.

Now an example of what I am saying is found in Heb 6:4-6

4For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,

5And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,

6If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.

In this passage the writer issues a warning to this first century assembly, this in light of impending apostasy of some within this number to whom written, but he [the writer] neglects not to add to them who the warnings would not directly apply because of the evident fruit of Salvation and Perseverance Note: Heb 6:9-12

9But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.

10For God is not unrighteous to forget your work and labour of love, which ye have shewed toward his name, in that ye have ministered to the saints, and do minister.

11And we desire that every one of you do shew the same diligence to the full assurance of hope unto the end:

12That ye be not slothful, but followers of them who through faith and patience inherit the promises.

It is obvious that in the reckoning of the writer, probably a Apostle, apostasy was not a possibility to the Beloved or the Beloved of God or of the Lord ! So its in line with the general tenor of scripture to address with words of warning to persons collectively, understanding that both tares and the wheat are amongst them !36
 
John 10:4-5


If one of Christ's Sheep, having believed, later on forsakes Christ and follows another Gospel or False Religion, then they make Christ out to be a Liar, who said this of His Sheep Jn 10:4-5


4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

So those of you who believe a True Believer once following Christ, and later apostatizes and follows another way, you are calling Christ a Liar. Even if they turn to atheism, that still makes Christ a Liar, because they then still follow a stranger..
 
John 10:4-5


If one of Christ's Sheep, having believed, later on forsakes Christ and follows another Gospel or False Religion, then they make Christ out to be a Liar, who said this of His Sheep Jn 10:4-5


4And when he putteth forth his own sheep, he goeth before them, and the sheep follow him: for they know his voice.

5And a stranger will they not follow, but will flee from him: for they know not the voice of strangers.

So those of you who believe a True Believer once following Christ, and later apostatizes and follows another way, you are calling Christ a Liar. Even if they turn to atheism, that still makes Christ a Liar, because they then still follow a stranger..

it took 29 years for Abraham tobe 100% sure of God's voice to have the promised child and then be willing to sacrifice him.
To all that are in beleif wanting to know hang in there and let God grow you and youwilllearn truth from any error from mankind, For God promised neve to forsake us or leave us
Halleluah!!!!!!!!!!!!!