True Born Again Christians Have Eternal Security

[eternally-gratefull]

[/B][/COLOR]I may have misunderstood what he was saying.

But he said "They are not saved because they are in the church but are in the church because they are saved."

The part I underlined I disagree wtih. One is saved because he is in the church, in the body of Christ.

He is saying. One does not get saved by being a part of the church. He is part of the church BECAUSE he has BEEN SAVED.

Being "in the church" and "saved" are equivalent terms. As I read and understood his statement above, he seems to be trying to make them NOT equivalent. He is saying that one is first saved, then AFTER he is saved he then is placed in the church.

I do not think that is what he was saying

Here is the reason I am suspecting he is doing this separation between being "in the church" and being "saved":

Paul wrote his Ephesian letter to the church at Ephesus wherein Paul says that church was sealed, Eph 1:13. Yet some years later the church at Ephesus had fallen, left their first love and if they did not obey the command to repent their candlestick (church) would be removed (Rev 2) proving that salvation is conditonal and can be lost. So he is trying to disassociate salvation from being in the church to just the individual to avoid dealing with the church at Ephesus falling.

1. It does not prove salvation is conditional.
2. A candlestick is given to a church, NOT individuals.
3. People can be saved, and show no light. because they are not doing what God wants them. Also called a dead church. I have seen and been a part of many of them. But I KNOW the people in it were saved, they just missed out on so much of what God wanted to give them, and do with them

But one who has fallen away can be "re-save":

According to hebrews 6, They could not be resaved if they actually lost salvation. There is no second chance.

James 5:19,20 "Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins."

Again read heb 6. Scripture can not contradict. I think the context of what james spoke of is sanctification. not justification There is a huge difference between the two.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

[/B]This is biblically impossible.

Jn 3:18. Mk 16:16 unbelief is a condemned state no matter who is in that state, no exceptions are made.[/SIZE]

It is? SInce when did the prodigal son STOP being the son?

Was he not still related by blood to his father?

 

[SeaBass]

It is? SInce when did the prodigal son STOP being the son?

Was he not still related by blood to his father?

He was no longer SPIRITUALLY a son when he became lost.

"For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found"

He becmae spiritually dead (lost) then came to himself returning to his father become spritually alive AGAIN.

Alive AGAIN implies he was spiritually alive before, became spiritually dead, then spirutually alive AGAIN.

------------------

"But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf"


If the son never lost his salvation, how can one commit the sin of fornication yet remain saved? Gal 5:19-21 fornicators wil not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He was no longer SPIRITUALLY a son when he became lost.

Sorry. Jesus was using the WHOLE parable to show a spiritual truth. He was not talking about the prodigal son losing his spiritual relationship.

"For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found"

He becmae spiritually dead (lost) then came to himself returning to his father become spritually alive AGAIN.

Alive AGAIN implies he was spiritually alive before, became spiritually dead, then spirutually alive AGAIN.

------------------

"But as soon as this thy son was come, which hath devoured thy living with harlots, thou hast killed for him the fatted calf"


If the son never lost his salvation, how can one commit the sin of fornication yet remain saved? Gal 5:19-21 fornicators wil not inherit the kingdom of heaven.

1. You added the word spiritual. It is dangerous to add to the word of God
2. He lost his fathers blessings, and access to his fathers love and the ability to take care of his son WHILE ALIVE HERE ON EARTH. He never stopped being his fathers son
3. God uses chastening (of which the son recieved while he was away) to bring his people back. He did it to me But I know I never stopped being the son. The fact the father recieved him before he even repented proves he never stopped being the fathers son.

As for fornication. I guess many OT saints will not be in heaven.. WHy do you want to place yourself back under law?? Because that is what you are preaching.

 

[SeaBass]

He is saying. One does not get saved by being a part of the church. He is part of the church BECAUSE he has BEEN SAVED.

Your language above show you having one saved BEFORE he is part of the church which is not possible. Salvation is only in the church, in the body of Christ and nowhere outside that body at any time.

I do not think that is what he was saying



1. It does not prove salvation is conditional.
2. A candlestick is given to a church, NOT individuals.
3. People can be saved, and show no light. because they are not doing what God wants them. Also called a dead church. I have seen and been a part of many of them. But I KNOW the people in it were saved, they just missed out on so much of what God wanted to give them, and do with them



According to hebrews 6, They could not be resaved if they actually lost salvation. There is no second chance.




Again read heb 6. Scripture can not contradict. I think the context of what james spoke of is sanctification. not justification There is a huge difference between the two.

Yes, they had fallen left Christ and if they did not repent their church would be removed, no longer recognized, acknowledged by God.

Jesus told them "...repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick..."

Rev 1:20 "...the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

So "candlestick" is symbolic for the "church" at Ephesus.


Heb 6, repentance was not "impossible" for Simon in Acts 8. Why would Peter command Simon to repent and pray if repentace was impossible?


"For it is impossible......If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

1) the verbs "crucify" and "put" are Greek present tense denoting a sustained, ongoing action.

2) Christ is "the reason" one repents

So if one is in a state where he is continuously, ongoingly crucifying and putting to shame "the reason" one repents, then it would be impossible for him to repent. But if one stops crucifying and putting to shame "the reason" one repents, then he can come to repentance, as Simon.



James is talking about salvation, about "saving a soul from death" Anyone that cannot lose their salvation never needs their soul saved from death. [Death here being spiritual death not physical]

 

[SeaBass]

Sorry. Jesus was using the WHOLE parable to show a spiritual truth. He was not talking about the prodigal son losing his spiritual relationship.

Jesus was showing one can become lost. You do not look for what is not, can never be lost.

Lk 15:2 "And the Pharisees and scribes murmured, saying, This man receiveth sinners, and eateth with them."

This accusation was made by the Jews agaisnt Christ. So Christ gave them 3 parables, lost sheep, lost coin, lost son. Jesus was showing these Jews that He was going to the lost sinners for the Jews rejected Him.

1. You added the word spiritual. It is dangerous to add to the word of God
2. He lost his fathers blessings, and access to his fathers love and the ability to take care of his son WHILE ALIVE HERE ON EARTH. He never stopped being his fathers son
3. God uses chastening (of which the son recieved while he was away) to bring his people back. He did it to me But I know I never stopped being the son. The fact the father recieved him before he even repented proves he never stopped being the fathers son.

As for fornication. I guess many OT saints will not be in heaven.. WHy do you want to place yourself back under law?? Because that is what you are preaching.

1)The father said this my son was "dead".

Did he mean his son was physically dead? No. He was spiritually dead.

The son went from being spiritually alive, to spiritually dead, to spiritually alive again.



2) I can have a son. He wil always be my son by physical descent whether he is saved or not. But he can be God's son spiritually yet fall away from that. The physical relatonship is not the same as the spiritual.


3) chastening some times does not work. Some will not endure, Heb 12:7.



So you are saying fornicators will make it to heaven inspite of what Paul said in Gal 5?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Your language above show you having one saved BEFORE he is part of the church which is not possible. Salvation is only in the church, in the body of Christ and nowhere outside that body at any time.

lol.. Your not thinking.

One is made a part of the body of christ as a result of being saved. Those are the facts.

They are not made a part of Christ WHILE still under the penalty of sin (death)

Yes, they had fallen left Christ and if they did not repent their church would be removed, no longer recognized, acknowledged by God.

Jesus told them "...repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick..."

Rev 1:20 "...the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are the seven churches."

So "candlestick" is symbolic for the "church" at Ephesus.

Yes. CHURCH Not and inuvidual. Context.. CHURCH

Heb 6, repentance was not "impossible" for Simon in Acts 8. Why would Peter command Simon to repent and pray if repentace was impossible?

Heb 6 says a if a person falls away CANNOT BE RENEWED TO REPENTANCE. Are you going to call the author (namely God who inspired the words) a liar?

"For it is impossible......If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame."

1) the verbs "crucify" and "put" are Greek present tense denoting a sustained, ongoing action.

2) Christ is "the reason" one repents

So if one is in a state where he is continuously, ongoingly crucifying and putting to shame "the reason" one repents, then it would be impossible for him to repent. But if one stops crucifying and putting to shame "the reason" one repents, then he can come to repentance, as Simon.

I disagree. Saying one CAN fall away puts christ to open shame. Because it states his death was not the final act, and has no power. But we have wishy washy salvation which can be lost and gained back again, Which is what judaism and the law taught.

James is talking about salvation, about "saving a soul from death" Anyone that cannot lose their salvation never needs their soul saved from death. [Death here being spiritual death not physical]

ANyone who has eternal life has no fear of spiritual death, Because the life they were given is called eternal.

Are you telling me James spoke AGAINST eternal life??

tisk tisk

"for we have not been given a spirit of fear, but an abba father"

Why do yuo live in fear. when you can Go to God as your daddy, who will never leave nor forsake you?

 

[SeaBass]

lol.. Your not thinking.

One is made a part of the body of christ as a result of being saved. Those are the facts.

They are not made a part of Christ WHILE still under the penalty of sin (death)



Yes. CHURCH Not and inuvidual. Context.. CHURCH

One cannot be saved outside the body of Christ first, then later become part of the body of Christ. When one is water baptized he has his sins remitted and he is baptized into Christ at the same moment.

saved = in the body

The church at Ephesus was made up of individual Ephesians. So when the church was sealed, each individual within the church was sealed. The church cannot fall away without the individuals that make up the church falling away. So when the angel was addressing the church at Ephesus in Rev 2, he was addressing those individuals Ephesians that had fallen, left their first love.

Heb 6 says a if a person falls away CANNOT BE RENEWED TO REPENTANCE. Are you going to call the author (namely God who inspired the words) a liar?

It is impossible for one to repent as long as he remains in and ongoing, sustained state where he continues to crucify Christ and continues to put Christ to shame.

I disagree. Saying one CAN fall away puts christ to open shame. Because it states his death was not the final act, and has no power. But we have wishy washy salvation which can be lost and gained back again, Which is what judaism and the law taught.

"... those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,"

These are words clearly describing one that is saved.

The Hebrew writer then says "[SUP] [/SUP]If they shall fall away.."

"IF" being a conditional word,

Fall away from enlightened to darkness, fall away from the heavenly gift, fall away from being a partaker of the Holy Ghost, fall away from the word of God and powers to come.

ANyone who has eternal life has no fear of spiritual death, Because the life they were given is called eternal.

Are you telling me James spoke AGAINST eternal life??

tisk tisk

"for we have not been given a spirit of fear, but an abba father"

Why do yuo live in fear. when you can Go to God as your daddy, who will never leave nor forsake you?

1 Jn 2:25 "And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life."

I can obey the gospel today and gain this promise of eternal life. Time down the road I can turn from Christ in unbelief and fall away and lose this promise of eternal life. Eternal life is still eternal for those who continue to have this promise, eternal does not stop being eternal just because I no longer possess the promise of eternal life.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

One cannot be saved outside the body of Christ first, then later become part of the body of Christ. When one is water baptized he has his sins remitted and he is baptized into Christ at the same moment.

um.. So one is not justified until they are immersed in water? I sure hope someone who had faith does not die before they can be dipped. they would be lost forever. even though they had saving faith.

And you not listening. Being justified MAKES one a member of the body of Christ.

saved = in the body

Saved = saved from the wrath of God and eternal judgment.
Born again equals being born into the body of Christ (spiritual life) because we have been saved from Gods eternal wrath

The church at Ephesus was made up of individual Ephesians. So when the church was sealed, each individual within the church was sealed. The church cannot fall away without the individuals that make up the church falling away. So when the angel was addressing the church at Ephesus in Rev 2, he was addressing those individuals Ephesians that had fallen, left their first love.

lol. Now your pushing it. Not everyone in ANY church is saved. Paul spoke of ravaging wolves coming into the church, who were just there to take people away from God and insert their own system.

A local church is a local church. The Body of Christ is a universal church. Huge difference.

It is impossible for one to repent as long as he remains in and ongoing, sustained state where he continues to crucify Christ and continues to put Christ to shame.



"... those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost, And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,"

These are words clearly describing one that is saved.

The Hebrew writer then says "If they shall fall away.."

"IF" being a conditional word,

Fall away from enlightened to darkness, fall away from the heavenly gift, fall away from being a partaker of the Holy Ghost, fall away from the word of God and powers to come.

Wrong on all accounts.

If they fall away (if it were possible) they could never be restored to repentance. For they crucify for themselves the son of God

The law stated if you sinned, A sacrifice must be made to forgive that sin, So returning to law. means the only way you can be saved is to crucify Christ again.

The context of ALL of hebrews is the law vs Christ. Who do you think the author was talking to??

Jn 2:25 "And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life."

I can obey the gospel today and gain this promise of eternal life. Time down the road I can turn from Christ in unbelief and fall away and lose this promise of eternal life. Eternal life is still eternal for those who continue to have this promise, eternal does not stop being eternal just because I no longer possess the promise of eternal life.

Then it is not eternal. If it can ever be lost. It is not eternal. Period. Stop twisting the word of God. Your calling him a liar

John 6 makes it clear. As well as Roman, And eph. FOREVER IS FOREVER.

 

[know1]

Here is an excellent example of an apparent contradiction:


[SUP]8 [/SUP]For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
[SUP]9 [/SUP]Not of works, lest any man should boast. - Ephesians 2:8-9 (King James Bible)

From reading this passage in Ephesians, we can clearly see here that the Apostle Paul is telling us that we are saved not by our works but by grace through faith. So salvation is given to us without works.


Now let's see what James concluded in his epistle:


14What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him? 15If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food, 16And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit? 17Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. - James 2:14-17 (King James Bible)

[SUB]And do you ever wonder why so many people say the Bible has contradictions in it? It is because they see stuff like I just showed you with the passage from James and also the passage from Ephesians. They see the differing viewpoints and they see that you cannot reconcile them. Of course, the only way to reconcile this quote on quote "issue" of an apparent contradiction is by simply obeying the command given in 2 Timothy 2:15:
[/SUB]

Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth.


That is why when Christians do not rightly divide the word of truth, they cause contradictions to show up in the Scriptures and they make a mess of the Bible. You basically cause the Bible to contradict; that is when you do not rightly divide the word of truth.

For every apparent contradiction, there is a Scriptural solution. After all God cannot lie (See Titus 1:2) and the Scripture cannot be broken. (See John 10:35).

Having said that, it is obvious that the reason that the book of James emphasizes and teaches both faith and works is because the book of James is written to the twelve tribes which are scattered abroad (See James 1:1) And also the book of James is doctrinally for the Jew (Tribulation Saint) in the Time of Jacob's Trouble. In the Time of Jacob's Trouble, the only Jews which have Eternal Security are the 144,000 sealed Jews (See Revelation 7:1-8).

Other than that, for the rest of the tribulation saints, they must endure unto the end (See Matthew 24:13, Mark 13:13, Hebrews 3:6; 3:14; & 6:11) because they do not have eternal security. They must endure to the end by not taking the mark of the beast and by keeping the faith of Jesus and the commandments of God (Rev. 14:9-12).

I hate to be mean about this, but you sir, failed to rightly divide James 2:14-17, not understanding what the verse is talking about ,because you don't know what faith really is. Where do you people come up with this garbage? If you understood how to walk by faith you would know exactly what God was talking about in James. This scripture verse IS for the child of God for today. The works spoken of in Ephesians 2:8-9, has to do with the works of the law by the flesh to attain righteousness, where the works in James is referring to corresponding action to your faith. One of the works is done in the flesh to attain righteousness by upholding the moral and ethical laws of God, while the other is done in the spirit for answered prayer, whether it be for salvation, healing, or whatever you believe God for. One is an act of obedience to a written law, while the other is an act of faith in God and His word/promises. James is simply talking about acting on the word of God.

Jas 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
Jas 1:6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed.
Jas 1:7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord.
Jas 1:8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.

Without corresponding action to your declaration or prayer of faith, you get nothing from God. That is one reason why so many people fail to receive their healing when they ask God for it.

Example;
Act 3:1 Now Peter and John went up together into the temple at the hour of prayer, being the ninth hour.
Act 3:2 And a certain man lame from his mother's womb was carried, whom they laid daily at the gate of the temple which is called Beautiful, to ask alms of them that entered into the temple;
Act 3:3 Who seeing Peter and John about to go into the temple asked an alms.
Act 3:4 And Peter, fastening his eyes upon him with John, said, Look on us.
Act 3:5 And he gave heed unto them, expecting to receive something of them.
Act 3:6 Then Peter said, Silver and gold have I none; but such as I have give I thee: In the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth rise up and walk.
Act 3:7 And he took him by the right hand, and lifted him up: and immediately his feet and ankle bones received strength.
Act 3:8 And he leaping up stood, and walked, and entered with them into the temple, walking, and leaping, and praising God.



Peter didn't just tell the guy to rise up and walk, hoping the guy would get up and walk. He pulled him up, expecting the man's feet and ankle bones to receive strength immediately. This is what moves the hand of God. His actions/works lined up with his faith. He didn't get off into fear like he did when walking on the water, then started to sink. This is where your faith is dead, useless, and will fail to work without corresponding action. It's just that simple. If Peter would have said, 'see IF you can get up and walk', after he told the impotent man to get up and walk, the man would NOT have received his healing. Or if he said, 'if it be God's will, you can get up and walk', absolutely nothing would have happened. There is NO faith/confidence that God will do anything with those kind of words, and your actions will line up with what you believe. You will act out what you believe in your heart.
So the logical explanation to the seemingly contradictory verses between Ephesians and James, is in the different kind of works in which it's talking about.

 

[SarahM777]

Why because 2 Tim. 2:12 says that if we belive not, yet he (Jesus) abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself (his own Body). We are members of His Body, of His flesh and of His bones (Eph. 5:30)

Sorry Chosen,

That is a very bad understanding of that passage.

2 Timothy 2

11 It is a faithful saying: For if we be dead with him, we shall also live with him:
12 If we suffer, we shall also reign with him: if we deny him, he also will deny us:
13 If we believe not, yet he abideth faithful: he cannot deny himself.

What you are saying is He is going against Himself. You have the Lord going AGAINST His very Word. Didn't Jesus say this

John 3

18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Please show ANYWHERE in scripture that one can be in UNBELIEF and still be saved. Please show from these type of passages that there is a third set of saved people that believed,fell away and are still saved. Please show anywhere from scripture there is a third group of people.

You are trying to force that passage to show there is a third group of people and that DOES NOT stand in light in the rest of scripture.

 

[doseofreality]

Ha this is convenient because there is no real way of knowing whether someone is a "True born again christian" unless you look at their "fruit" and they remain in the faith. Obviously if they stay in the faith their whole life then they were truly born again but if they should fall away, it must mean they weren't truly born again, they didn't really mean it. Blah

Sorry i have a chip on my shoulder since i fall in the latter.

 

[homwardbound]

Originally Posted by SarahM777

But the real question is can one become an unbeliever even after becoming a believer? If that is possible then eternal security is not 100% true.

Not possible, I am one that can't go back to the cess pool, been though it. like Job, can't and won't curse God, no matter what. trusting God no matter what and am positive many that never really believed, even though they claimed it would have turned back.
Anyway Sister it is what it is, Father has got me in Father's hand. no one can snatch me out, not even me
I am apart of the fellowship of the unashamed, The dye has been cast, decision made. I have stepped over the line, it is done
Love you

 

[homwardbound]

Silly question. Of course he does. I just see way too many warnings about walking away the faith. Paul warns us to examine ourselves to be sure we are in the faith. With all the warnings OSAS can NOT be true. All of the warnings are one direction it is about us walking away from the faith.

Walking away from the Faith in the Son's finished work for you is not ever coming to the full assurance in that it is all God and none of you. None of man's works or nonm works changes the fact that Christ first died for us in our stead then rose the thirds day after to give us new life in the Spirit of God that started on Pentecost in the reception of the same Holy Spirit of God that led Christ is here today to live through us as did Christ.
When one sees this by God showing one this and one accepts there is no turning back. One moves past Metamorphosis to new life here and now. And that can't change God's truth John 3:16 ever

 

[homwardbound]

Is Paul LYING here?

Galatians 1

6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting the one who called you to live in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel— 7 which is really no gospel at all. Evidently some people are throwing you into confusion and are trying to pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse! 9 As we have already said, so now I say again: If anybody is preaching to you a gospel other than what you accepted, let them be under God’s curse!
10 Am I now trying to win the approval of human beings, or of God? Or am I trying to please people? If I were still trying to please people, I would not be a servant of Christ.

Paul is very clearly saying they are DESERTING God the Father. Remember Paul is writing this under the insperation of the Holy Spirit.

And again here

Galatians 5

2 Mark my words! I, Paul, tell you that if you let yourselves be circumcised, Christ will be of no value to you at all.3 Again I declare to every man who lets himself be circumcised that he is obligated to obey the whole law.4 You who are trying to be justified by the law have been alienated from Christ; you have fallen away from grace.5 For through the Spirit we eagerly await by faith the righteousness for which we hope.6 For in Christ Jesus neither circumcision nor uncircumcision has any value. The only thing that counts is faith expressing itself through love.

Is Paul lying here? Paul is not saying that they DIDN'T have grace to begin with. He clearly says they HAVE BEEN ALIENATED from Christ. One can NOT be alienated unless one KNEW Christ.

Who is trying to be justified by Law? We are justified and sanctified by Christ alone, resting in that, thank you very much Christ for the delivering me and all that believe to Father, thank you Father for accepting Son's sacrifice for me to be seen as perfect from you and all who believe, which is what gives new life in the spirit of you, thank you

 

[homwardbound]

UMMM Sorry Paul says they have FALLEN AWAY FROM GRACE. If one has FALLEN from grace then how is one still saved? We are saved by grace through faith in Christ Jesus. If one loses their faith in Christ Jesus,then how are they justified,how are they still saved? If one throws away the only thing that saves us then how is that person still saved? Please explain.

Grace is not salvation it is what God did for you and all to receive new life in God's Spirit and that is only accomplished if one believes God in all God has done for us through Son
Belief in God not working to gain God does this. The only work God wants is for us to work hard to enter his rest to see it by belief and when one does there is n o turning back to the beggarly elements of this world

 

[homwardbound]

Add to that,Paul's language makes it IMPOSSIBLE for it mean an unbeliever. An unbeliever NEVER had faith to depart FROM. One can ONLY depart from something that you do have.

No, those that depart and have departed heard truth and did not stick it out through thick and thin, never saw God's truth in full and so never came to full assurance
Read Heb. 5:10 through 6:6, praying you might grab hold of the meat of the word of God through Son

 

[homwardbound]

Sorry EG,

Paul is addressing the GALATIANS. He is telling them THEY HAVE fallen from grace.

From Grace the truth that brings one to the born again life in rest with Father. They had it but did not continue in it adding works of self to it. Noe though God whom is Faithful brings them back to the fold in God's timing to all those that do believe have not really left God. Not in God's point of view anyway, thanks to Christ the Son

 

[homwardbound]

lol. And you have NEVER SEEN THIS?

I see it all the time.

You will NEVER convince me those people were ever saved.

Why would people go back to being a slave when they have been set free. Unless they were never set free?

Thats like saying someone was given a million dollors, with no questions asked, just as a gift. And then telling me that person returned the gift of the million, and said he would rather work to earn it.

True salvation is worth more than a million dollars by an infinite amount. So you want me to believe someone who received this gift and experienced it by the power of God and the Holy Spirit who was given to them. Would all of a sudden give it back. And say, No thank you, I want to earn it..

Sorry not buying it.

Maybe more like they did not understand the depth and love of God, and this admonishment was to bring the whole truth to them to see through it is by Faith in what Christ has done for them and all who beleive. So the rubber hits the road and the choice is made deeper as to continue in belief or make my own way to salvation as is what they had taken on, adding works. when there is no other way but by Faith in the finished work of Son

 

[homwardbound]

Ha this is convenient because there is no real way of knowing whether someone is a "True born again christian" unless you look at their "fruit" and they remain in the faith. Obviously if they stay in the faith their whole life then they were truly born again but if they should fall away, it must mean they weren't truly born again, they didn't really mean it. Blah

Sorry i have a chip on my shoulder since i fall in the latter.

God's Mercy is to all and for all,, whether one sins or not. all that God left for us to do, is beleive God or not. and that is it folks
Believe, one receives, and sees, yet this can take awhile or in an instant. Depending on ones motive, God knows and reveals accordingly to this great Mystery that today is revealed through Christ unto Farther for the new life Christ said he came to give, is by the resurrected Christ, not the dead one. Yet we need to reckon ourselves dead with Christ first in the flesh in order to possibly see the new life in the Spirit of God. It is all God that gets all the glory and that's my final answer a million-air in Spirit and truth, thank you Jesus and Father for the approval through Son. It is done