True Born Again Christians Have Eternal Security

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The "Once Saved, Always Saved" (OSAS) doctrine is blasphemous.

How dare you think that YOU make the decisions about who goes to Heaven and who doesn't. You are NOT God. HE makes the decisions.
 
John_S said:
The "Once Saved, Always Saved" (OSAS) doctrine is blasphemous.

How dare you think that YOU make the decisions about who goes to Heaven and who doesn't. You are NOT God. HE makes the decisions.
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lol. Then think about what you just said

OSAS is blasphemous? If it is, then it is YOU who decides who goes to heaven, Not God.
 
John_S said:
The "Once Saved, Always Saved" (OSAS) doctrine is blasphemous.

How dare you think that YOU make the decisions about who goes to Heaven and who doesn't. You are NOT God. HE makes the decisions.
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Umm...if it's God that is doing all the saving, then your charge of blasphemy makes no sense.

It's hard to interact on these threads, when such language is used.
 
To say that what God does is not eternal is for sure blasphemous....maybe read Ecclesiastes 3:14 Whatsoever means exactly that...what ever it is that he does!
 
"Revelation 22:19 - 20: And if anyone cancels or takes away from the statements of the book of this prophecy, God will cancel and take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the city of holiness, which are described and promised in this book. He Who gives this warning and affirms and testifies to these things says, Yes (it is true). ..."

Now if true born again christians have eternal security, why would there be a possibility for christians to lose their share in the tree of life and in the city of holiness?
 
Humble1 said:
"Revelation 22:19 - 20: And if anyone cancels or takes away from the statements of the book of this prophecy, God will cancel and take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the city of holiness, which are described and promised in this book. He Who gives this warning and affirms and testifies to these things says, Yes (it is true). ..."

Now if true born again christians have eternal security, why would there be a possibility for christians to lose their share in the tree of life and in the city of holiness?
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So you really think your efforts earn you the state of continuing to be saved?

Ephesians 2.8-9

It is, however, not the characteristic of truly born again Christians to go about denying the word of God, or saying that what Revelation says will happen, won't happen, supposedly; this seems to the point being made in Rev.22.
 
O.K...here we go: Let's say a person is living a good life and doing good things, but is unsaved, what does that person deserve? Well, he deserves death. He has no relationship with God, therefore God will say to him, "Depart from me ye accursed, for I never knew ye!"
O.K. then, let's say he was baptized, what does he deserve now? Well, he deserves the same thing; death. There is no power in baptism to save an individual. It is the grace of God through faith by which one is saved.
O.k. then, let's say he confessed the name of Jesus as his savior, what does he deserve now? Nothing. He deserves death, salvation is not by works lest any man should boast.
O.K. then, let's say he heard the word of Christ, what does he deserve now? Death, that is what he deserves. The demons know for a fact that there is a God, yet they tremble.
O.K. then, now let's say that a man has simply had faith in God, he believes what God has said; what does he now deserve?
He deserves nothing but death, because there is nothing meritorious that a man can do which EARNS salvation, or DESERVES salvation. Man is a sinner and deserves death in all instances, because there is nothing meritorious that he can do to obtain salvation. Faith in God is absolutely powerless to save a man, it is God Himself who renders a man justified, or righteous. He is willing to do for all what He did for Abraham, He will reckon our faith as righteousness. He does not PAY us salvation for our belief. He reckons our faith in Him as righteousness, and thereby are we saved. There is no hoop a man can jump through that will make him deserve his salvation, not even faith. It is God who reckons our faith as righteousness. Until you grasp that and can deal with it, you just think you are saved because you believed. God saves you not based on any deeds you have done, it is by grace through faith by which you are saved. Grace comes through faith, not the other way around, faith comes by Grace. God is the one who takes the action to save the condemned.
Many people simply cannot grasp the concept of salvation by grace through faith. You think that your faith saves you, you are wrong. It is God who saves you by reckoning your faith as righteousness.
 
Humble1 said:
"Revelation 22:19 - 20: And if anyone cancels or takes away from the statements of the book of this prophecy, God will cancel and take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the city of holiness, which are described and promised in this book. He Who gives this warning and affirms and testifies to these things says, Yes (it is true). ..."

Now if true born again christians have eternal security, why would there be a possibility for christians to lose their share in the tree of life and in the city of holiness?
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QUOTE=Humble1;1448114]"Revelation 22:19 - 20: And if anyone cancels or takes away from the statements of the book of this prophecy, God will cancel and take away from him his share in the tree of life and in the city of holiness, which are described and promised in this book. He Who gives this warning and affirms and testifies to these things says, Yes (it is true). ..."

Now if true born again christians have eternal security, why would there be a possibility for christians to lose their share in the tree of life and in the city of holiness?[/QUOTE]

Well, the confusion in Rev 22:19-20 comes from selective exclusion: John does not simply say "if anyone cancels or takes away", he prefaces that with verse 18 which says basically "I warn everyone (emphasis mine) who reads the words of this prophecy..."
So at least in Rev 22:19 we are left asking just exactly who is it that has a share in the tree of life and the city of holiness, since John warns everyone about the penalties, or punishment, associated with altering the words of the prophecy.
And also we are especially interested in exactly what the "words of this prophecy" actually refers to, the Revelation, or another biblical prophecy which Revelation refers to. A prophecy which relates to what John is saying, and not just the Revelation itself.
Also, in Rev 1:1-3, John speaks about a revelation given by Jesus, but notice that the revelation is singular. So does John in Rev1:1-3 refer to some singular revelation given by Jesus contained somewhere within the Book of Revelation which reveals things which were, and are, and will be (relative to 1st century perspective)?
 
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faroukfarouk said:
So you really think your efforts earn you the state of continuing to be saved?

Ephesians 2.8-9

It is, however, not the characteristic of truly born again Christians to go about denying the word of God, or saying that what Revelation says will happen, won't happen, supposedly; this seems to the point being made in Rev.22.
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No, you are saved by His Grace through your faith, and the works follow because God changed your heart, "What is the use (profit), my brethren, for anyone to profess to have faith if he has no [good] works [to show for it]? Can [such] faith save [his soul]?" - James 2:14. Furthermore see James 2:17 and James 2:20.

There is also the parable of the prodigal son, while the prodigal son was doing the works of the flesh he was reckoned by his father as a dead son - only when he came to his senses and returned he was reckoned as alive again. He was a "son" the whole time - alive first - then dead -then alive again.
 
Humble1 said:
No, you are saved by His Grace through your faith, and the works follow because God changed your heart, "What is the use (profit), my brethren, for anyone to profess to have faith if he has no [good] works [to show for it]? Can [such] faith save [his soul]?" - James 2:14. Furthermore see James 2:17 and James 2:20.

There is also the parable of the prodigal son, while the prodigal son was doing the works of the flesh he was reckoned by his father as a dead son - only when he came to his senses and returned he was reckoned as alive again. He was a "son" the whole time - alive first - then dead -then alive again.
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I agree with your first paragraph, certainly.

I would not apply the second paragraph in the same way, though. Paul clearly teaches that before we are saved we are 'dead in trespasses and sins' (Ephesians 2); we become the children of God when we believe, and not before.
 
My only question is "If a saved person should have the condition under which he is now rendered unsaved, does he now have to be re-saved? For some that would mean re-baptized and others would think it means they would have to re-believe. Because as I understand scripture salvation is a one time only thing that is done. Or are we to accept that once a condemning condition exists then that person would be forever condemned without any chance of redemption? In other words once saved, forever sinless or if sinful condemned without any hope for forgiveness?
 
We need to quit trying to see the edge of the ball bark beyond the horizon!

We need, instead, to concentrate of the facts of God's gracious provision of the Savior for whoever believers in Him.

Blessings.
 
Humble1 said:
No, you are saved by His Grace through your faith, and the works follow because God changed your heart, "What is the use (profit), my brethren, for anyone to profess to have faith if he has no [good] works [to show for it]? Can [such] faith save [his soul]?" - James 2:14. Furthermore see James 2:17 and James 2:20.
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The people of james had a dead faith (no faith) He did not at one time have faith, then lose it. They were hearers and not doers as james said. He is warning that mere belief will not save, even demons believe. True faith is what saves, and true faith WILL produce works. (eph 2: 10)

There is also the parable of the prodigal son, while the prodigal son was doing the works of the flesh he was reckoned by his father as a dead son - only when he came to his senses and returned he was reckoned as alive again. He was a "son" the whole time - alive first - then dead -then alive again.
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The prodigal son lost the blessings of his fathers help, His fathers gifts, and his fathers love when he left. Thus he had no help in this life.

He NEVER stopped being his fathers son. You can not break a blood relationship.
 
eternally-gratefull said:
The people of james had a dead faith (no faith) He did not at one time have faith, then lose it. They were hearers and not doers as james said. He is warning that mere belief will not save, even demons believe. True faith is what saves, and true faith WILL produce works. (eph 2: 10)



The prodigal son lost the blessings of his fathers help, His fathers gifts, and his fathers love when he left. Thus he had no help in this life.

He NEVER stopped being his fathers son. You can not break a blood relationship.
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How do you deal with these verses?

2 Peter 2:20-22

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”

James 5:19-20

My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

1 Timothy 4

The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons. 2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron. 3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods,which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth. 4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

Matthew 24

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

How do you reconcile these verses with OSAS?
 
SarahM777 said:
How do you deal with these verses?

2 Peter 2:20-22

For if, after they have escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, they are again entangled in them and overcome, the last state has become worse for them than the first. For it would have been better for them never to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment delivered to them. What the true proverb says has happened to them: “The dog returns to its own vomit, and the sow, after washing herself, returns to wallow in the mire.”
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Imagine spending eternity having known the way to get to heaven, yet not recieving and taking it into your possession.
A child of God is made a new creature. A dog is always a dog. He was never made a new creature. Never saved. He will ALWAYS return to what he really is. A dog. You can teach a dog a new trick. But he will always be a dog.


James 5:19-20
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My brothers, if anyone among you wanders from the truth and someone brings him back, let him know that whoever brings back a sinner from his wandering will save his soul from death and will cover a multitude of sins.

1 Timothy 4

The Spirit clearly says that in later times some will abandon the faith and follow deceiving spirits and things taught by demons.2 Such teachings come through hypocritical liars, whose consciences have been seared as with a hot iron.3 They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods,which God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and who know the truth.4 For everything God created is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving,5 because it is consecrated by the word of God and prayer.

Matthew 24

9 “Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. 10 At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other,11 and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. 12 Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold, 13 but the one who stands firm to the end will be saved.14 And this gospel of the kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come.

How do you reconcile these verses with OSAS?
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We have been over this so many times.

You reconcile them by putting them next to the OSAS verses. And interpret them so that they do not contradict each other. If you can not reconcile them. You just trust God that yuo can not explain it. But you will continue to believe in his promise.

What is his promise?

John 6. Whoever believes in me will never hunger, never thirst, Never die, live forever. Has eternal life. And will be raised by him on the last day (vs delivered to him for judgment)

You can not take john 6. and those verses above, and say they prove one can lose salvation. for doing so will make jesus himself a liar.

This is just one example. there are so many other passages which teach the same thing John 6 teaches.
 
Hello there,

We who have been saved by grace, have been 'Accepted in the Beloved' (Eph. 1:6), and we have been declared to be 'Complete' in Him (Col. 2:10), Holy and without blame (Eph. 1:4). Nothing, we are told, can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus (Rom. 8:35,39).

Don't you believe what God says?

In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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CWJ said:
Hello there,

We who have been saved by grace, have been 'Accepted in the Beloved' (Eph. 1:6), and we have been declared to be 'Complete' in Him (Col. 2:10), Holy and without blame (Eph. 1:4). Nothing, we are told, can separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus (Rom. 8:35,39).

Don't you believe what God says?

In Christ Jesus
Chris
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Amen and very true scripture and application of the truth!
 
I don't know how many times Im going to have to do this. Once saved always saved or "true christians" have eternal security and never fail is false doctrine. Please watch this 20 minute video of a pastor explaining why it is a wrong doctrine that exists within calvinism.

[video=youtube;PVJV6zsEJvY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVJV6zsEJvY[/video]
 
DavidLOVESsnow said:
I don't know how many times Im going to have to do this. Once saved always saved or "true christians" have eternal security and never fail is false doctrine. Please watch this 20 minute video of a pastor explaining why it is a wrong doctrine that exists within calvinism.

[video=youtube;PVJV6zsEJvY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PVJV6zsEJvY[/video]
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If it's God alone that does all the saving, then it must all be done well and securely.

If it depends in part on you and me, rather than being all of grace (Ephesians 2.8-9), then there is no hope for any of us.
 
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