True Christianity is Not Biblical.

[NiceneChristian]

Wrong again. Scripture tells me I am washed, I am sanctified and I am justified by the SPIRIT OF OUR GOD. Not by being immersed in water.

The HS can not enter us until we are washed. He must wash us before he can enter us. Water baptism will not wash us. it gets us wet.

Scripture also tells me I am born again (regenerated) by the washing and regeneration (new life given) of the HS, not by some priest baptising me in water.

Jesus never said to be baptized to receive the HS, where do you get this? By twisting scripture again?

Why do you want to replace the work of God, which washed us by water (the word) through the HS, with the work of man getting us wet? Do you not know God calls that blasphemy of the spirit??

Even Martin Luther (the one who started your Church) believed in the power of water baptism, i can't understand how you and some other Protestants have gotten so far away from the true Apostolic Gospel and teaching.

This is what Lutheranism teaches:

Baptism

Lutherans hold that Baptism is a saving work of God,[114] mandated and instituted by Jesus Christ.[115] Baptism is a "means of grace" through which God creates and strengthens "saving faith" as the "washing of regeneration"[116] in which infants and adults are reborn.[117] Since the creation of faith is exclusively God's work, it does not depend on the actions of the one baptized, whether infant or adult. Even though baptized infants cannot articulate that faith, Lutherans believe that it is present all the same.[118]
Because it is faith alone that receives these divine gifts, Lutherans confess that baptism "works forgiveness of sins, delivers from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare."[119] Holding fast to the Scripture cited in 1 Peter 3:21 "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." Therefore, Lutherans administer Baptism to both infants[120] and adults.[121] In the special section on infant baptism in his Large Catechism, Luther argues that infant baptism is God-pleasing because persons so baptized were reborn and sanctified by the Holy Spirit.[122][123]


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lutheranism#Baptism

 

[ada]

she's got a zillion names.
ashteroth, astarte, isis....sigh.

[FONT=Helvetica,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Helvetica,Trebuchet MS][FONT=Arial,Helvetica]Jewish historian and anthropologist Raphael Patai, in his book The Hebrew Goddess, argues that the Jewish religion historically had elements of polytheism, especially the worship of goddesses and a cult of the mother goddess. The book supports the theory through the interpretation of archaeological and textual sources as evidence for veneration of feminine beings. Hebrew goddesses identified in the book include Asherah, Anath, Astarte, Ashima, the cherubim in Solomon's Temple, the Matronit (Shekhina), and the personified Shabbat Bride. The later editions of the book were expanded to include recent archaeological discoveries and the rituals of unification (Yichudim) which are to unite God with his Shekinah.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]


...

 

[iamsoandso]

let me add though im "christian",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,not of greek mytholigy,,,,,,,,,,

 

[iamsoandso]

also you will find in the book of "ezra" that after the return of isrial,,,,,the goveners,princes,ect of isrial did "intermingle with" the children of the nephalim,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,when ezra heard of this he pulled out his beard hair and rent his clothes,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and they divorced their wife,, and those who already bore choildren with them were banded from the temple

 

[iamsoandso]

so he is correct in his book to note the things,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but ezra,,,,,,,,in the bible is correct in sepperating them from the house of god

 

[iamsoandso]

the issue is ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"3,,,,,,,,2,,,,,,,2,,,,",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in 322 a.d. her son acended unto heaven,,,,,,,,,,,,,before that she wasnt enough of "mankind",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Even Martin Luther (the one who started your Church)

MARTIN LUTHER DID NOT START MY CHURCH! What gives you the right to say such crap?? I do not follow Lutheranism.

believed in the power of water baptism, i can't understand how you and some other Protestants have gotten so far away from the true Apostolic Gospel and teaching.

Maybe because we follow What God says, And not what MEN SAY? Why are you using these arguments instead of showing where the passages I wrote do not support what I said? Did Jesus use these tactics when The jewish leaders said he wads wrong? Why are you so afraid to use scripture and always look to History? The jews used these same tactics. did it prove them right??

This is what Lutheranism teaches:

Baptism

Lutherans hold that Baptism is a saving work of God,[114] mandated and instituted by Jesus Christ.[115] Baptism is a "means of grace" through which God creates and strengthens "saving faith" as the "washing of regeneration"[116] in which infants and adults are reborn.[117] Since the creation of faith is exclusively God's work, it does not depend on the actions of the one baptized, whether infant or adult. Even though baptized infants cannot articulate that faith, Lutherans believe that it is present all the same.[118]
Because it is faith alone that receives these divine gifts, Lutherans confess that baptism "works forgiveness of sins, delivers from death and the devil, and gives eternal salvation to all who believe this, as the words and promises of God declare."[119] Holding fast to the Scripture cited in 1 Peter 3:21 "and this water symbolizes baptism that now saves you also—not the removal of dirt from the body but the pledge of a good conscience toward God. It saves you by the resurrection of Jesus Christ." Therefore, Lutherans administer Baptism to both infants[120] and adults.[121] In the special section on infant baptism in his Large Catechism, Luther argues that infant baptism is God-pleasing because persons so baptized were reborn and sanctified by the Holy Spirit.[122][123]


Lutheranism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Thanks. You just proved Luter did not teach faith alone. as you all say he did. But also believed in a works based Gospel. From which MANY MANY other what you call protestant churches believe also! Why do you think I am so offended when you say I follow him?? Try to listen to what I believe, and not use your preconcieved notions of what I believe as given by your church.

Your like a kid who's father said so and so believes this and this is why. and even though the person in question proves over and over your father was wrong, you refuse to believe it because you believe you father could never err. Kids do this. Not grown adults!

 

[iamsoandso]

see,,,,,,,,"skull and bones"

 

[ada]

the issue is ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"3,,,,,,,,2,,,,,,,2,,,,",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,in 322 a.d. her son acended unto heaven,,,,,,,,,,,,,before that she wasnt enough of "mankind",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,?

Why are you spaming?

 

[NiceneChristian]

MARTIN LUTHER DID NOT START MY CHURCH! What gives you the right to say such crap?? I do not follow Lutheranism.


Maybe because we follow What God says, And not what MEN SAY? Why are you using these arguments instead of showing where the passages I wrote do not support what I said? Did Jesus use these tactics when The jewish leaders said he wads wrong? Why are you so afraid to use scripture and always look to History? The jews used these same tactics. did it prove them right??

Thanks. You just proved Luter did not teach faith alone. as you all say he did. But also believed in a works based Gospel. From which MANY MANY other what you call protestant churches believe also! Why do you think I am so offended when you say I follow him?? Try to listen to what I believe, and not use your preconcieved notions of what I believe as given by your church.

Your like a kid who's father said so and so believes this and this is why. and even though the person in question proves over and over your father was wrong, you refuse to believe it because you believe you father could never err. Kids do this. Not grown adults!

Baptism is not a work it is a gift. Baptism is something which gives us the gift of God and His grace, we don't have to "do" anything except be immersed in water. A "work" is something difficult which you must do in order to do the deeds of God, a "gift of God" is something which God gives you free of charge (like Holy Baptism and Communion); these are not "works" these are gifts of God.

A gift must be received. In order to receive any gift we must put ourselves in the proper places to receive that gift. How do we receive the gifts of God? Through Holy Baptism and Communion. It is not a "work" to be baptized or to receive Holy Communion. It is a gift of God.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

see,,,,,,,,"skull and bones"

Yes, from the time of Israels departure from Egypt, it took them no time to return to the egyption Gods.

When they entered the promised land, They did not do what God told them to do and wipe out everything, they let many life. through these people the pagan Gods were allowed to be mixed in no time with the thing God gave them.

Even when they returned from babylon it took them no time to return to playing the harlot with the pagan Gods.

It is this reason Israel never had the peace God promised them. They could not resist playing the harlot with the mother of babylon from the time they were formed until the time they were dispersed in 70 AD.

We see the gentiles made the same mistakes. It did not take long for them to also mix pagan ritual and practice in what was called the church, and the mother of babylon had its greates victory in the church in the late 300's early 400's when it was made the churhc of the state, in what we today call the roman church which , like its name sake) was split between the east and west from catholisism and orthodoxy.

But God promises to destroy this harlot in the end. Then will he set up his kingdom minus pagan influence. and finaly the world will see Gods children as he had planned it all along. SOmething the children of Israel failed to do. and the church failed to do.

 

[iamsoandso]

from the top of my head,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,see these wich are for the kjv,,,,,,,,,,,,,of the different bibles,,,,,,,,,,,,,,zamzummim,emim,hormim,zumim,nephilim,rephilim,rephaim,anakim,anik,hebron,gibborim,rafa,avim,hittites,kenites,gath,sippti,gittite,ashdodite,perizite these are those that are commanded ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"dont mingle",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,see daniel 2;43",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"mingle themselves with the seed of men""""""""""""men",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"while men slept,the enemy sowed tares among the wheat",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,dont sleep through this issue,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,""""""""their real"""""""""""""""""""""

 

[NiceneChristian]

Yes, from the time of Israels departure from Egypt, it took them no time to return to the egyption Gods.

When they entered the promised land, They did not do what God told them to do and wipe out everything, they let many life. through these people the pagan Gods were allowed to be mixed in no time with the thing God gave them.

Even when they returned from babylon it took them no time to return to playing the harlot with the pagan Gods.

It is this reason Israel never had the peace God promised them. They could not resist playing the harlot with the mother of babylon from the time they were formed until the time they were dispersed in 70 AD.

We see the gentiles made the same mistakes. It did not take long for them to also mix pagan ritual and practice in what was called the church, and the mother of babylon had its greates victory in the church in the late 300's early 400's when it was made the churhc of the state, in what we today call the roman church which , like its name sake) was split between the east and west from catholisism and orthodoxy.

But God promises to destroy this harlot in the end. Then will he set up his kingdom minus pagan influence. and finaly the world will see Gods children as he had planned it all along. SOmething the children of Israel failed to do. and the church failed to do.

That's kind of disturbing that you believe this. Who told you this?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Baptism is not a work it is a gift.

Baptism is a work. A man has to baptise you. and you have to go to wherever it is to be baptised.

Baptism of the HS is not a work. It is done where you stand, and it is done by God.

Baptism is something which gives us the gift of God and His grace,

It can not be through grace then, Grace uis unerned. If you are going to be baptised ( a work) then you are doing something to recieve what you are working for. That is called a reward. A gift can not be earned by doing something. Grace can not be earned by doing something.

we don't have to "do" anything except be immersed in water. A "work" is something difficult which you must do in order to do the deeds of God, a "gift of God" is something which God gives you free of charge (like Holy Baptism and Communion); these are not "works" these are gifts of God.

Says who? And you do not think allowing yourself to be immersed in front of people is not difficult? I know many who have struggled and said that was the hardest thing they ever did! (I even remember being scared out of my wits stepping into the baptismal and giving my testimony to 300 people, and allowing my pastor to immerse me!)

But even this does not matter. Since when did paul say we are saved by easy works and not hard ones? Are you adding to scripture again?

Why do you want to reject that act of the HS baptising us? And replace it with the work of Men??

Can man place you into the death of Christ like you were there? NO. Can God?? YES

Can man place you in the grave of Christ? NO!, Can God?? YES

Can man wash you? Even Christ told peter he was completely clean BY THE WORDS CHRIST SPOKE. How can a man immersing us in water make us clean??

Can man make us a child of God, adopt us into his family?? NO. Man does not have any right to do that. Only God does. That is why it is the HS who baptises us into the body. NOT MAN!

Like hebrews says, A high priest could not make amends for the sin of his people because he was sinful himself. So how could a priest, who is also a sinner, make amends for us by immersing us in water, WHEN HE NEEDS AMENDS HIMSELF??

Don't you get it? The priesthood was done away with because God fulfilled the law with his death. No longer do we need people to do things to us to save us. Christ did it ALL. And the HS is the one who comes and does what is needed to washe us, make us alive again ( regenerate)

It does not say in titus 3: 5 I am washed by the regenaration of a man immersing me in water. It says I am washed by the regeneration of the HS..

 

[iamsoandso]

"the smamming",,,,,,,,,,,,,,no,,,,,,,,, in their own beliefs,,,,,,,,, he couldnt accend unto the heavens,,,,,,,,,,,,,unless he was "enough human",,,,,,,,,,,,,,his mother was not,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,he was crossed enough,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,as its written,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"untill the 7th generation he shall not enter into the temple of god",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,they believe he was ,,,,,,and it was in 322 a.d.,,,,,,,,,,,,,so "and his whole house",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,thats why they want to "mingle themselves with the seed of men",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That's kind of disturbing that you believe this. Who told you this?

Who told me this? History did. The works the EO and roman church does, which are pure paganism told me this. You tell me this every time you speak of the eucharist and baptismal cleansing. which are purely pagan rituals of cleansing and purification.

And yes it is disturbing. It is disturbing that it has been almost 2000 years now. And still people by into the roman LIE.

Then again, it is no wonder. The fear romanism places on its people by saying only THEY can interpret the word. and you should not attempt to do it yourself. and the fact that SCRIPTURE (gods own word he spent 200 years putting together) is not complete. and we miust listen to their saying which are not included, or even supported by scripture should be listened to.

The same reasoning and arguments the jews made in Christ's time. why do you think Jesus mother was so scared for him and lied saying he had mental problems. Because the jews religious leaders had such power over its people, just like the Roman church (east or west) church does over its people.

 

[NiceneChristian]

Baptism is a work. A man has to baptise you. and you have to go to wherever it is to be baptised.

Baptism of the HS is not a work. It is done where you stand, and it is done by God.



It can not be through grace then, Grace uis unerned. If you are going to be baptised ( a work) then you are doing something to recieve what you are working for. That is called a reward. A gift can not be earned by doing something. Grace can not be earned by doing something.





Says who? And you do not think allowing yourself to be immersed in front of people is not difficult? I know many who have struggled and said that was the hardest thing they ever did! (I even remember being scared out of my wits stepping into the baptismal and giving my testimony to 300 people, and allowing my pastor to immerse me!)

But even this does not matter. Since when did paul say we are saved by easy works and not hard ones? Are you adding to scripture again?

Why do you want to reject that act of the HS baptising us? And replace it with the work of Men??

Can man place you into the death of Christ like you were there? NO. Can God?? YES

Can man place you in the grave of Christ? NO!, Can God?? YES

Can man wash you? Even Christ told peter he was completely clean BY THE WORDS CHRIST SPOKE. How can a man immersing us in water make us clean??

Can man make us a child of God, adopt us into his family?? NO. Man does not have any right to do that. Only God does. That is why it is the HS who baptises us into the body. NOT MAN!

Like hebrews says, A high priest could not make amends for the sin of his people because he was sinful himself. So how could a priest, who is also a sinner, make amends for us by immersing us in water, WHEN HE NEEDS AMENDS HIMSELF??

Don't you get it? The priesthood was done away with because God fulfilled the law with his death. No longer do we need people to do things to us to save us. Christ did it ALL. And the HS is the one who comes and does what is needed to washe us, make us alive again ( regenerate)

It does not say in titus 3: 5 I am washed by the regenaration of a man immersing me in water. It says I am washed by the regeneration of the HS..

It is by water that we are baptized, not just by the Spirit. It is an apostolic teaching to be immersed in water. It is Scriptural.


Mark 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.


Act 8:36 And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37 And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39 And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.




Words are not what saves us. Water baptism IS a gift of God, it is not a work.

 

[iamsoandso]

see the prophicies of "babylon",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"mingled peoples",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,the melting pot of the earth,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"imagration",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"u.s.",,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,god divided them at the first "babel",,,,,,,,,we ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"we brought it back together,one launguage,,,,,,,,,,,not scattered,,,,united,,,,,,,,,,,one launguage,,,,,,,,,,i.e.use your keyboard,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"translate",,,,,,,,,,,,======the reverse of ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"confounded their launguage,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and they spread out",,,,,,,,,,we came to a common launguage,,,,,,,,,,,,,,and brought them back together,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,"in defience"

 

[NiceneChristian]

Who told me this? History did. The works the EO and roman church does, which are pure paganism told me this. You tell me this every time you speak of the eucharist and baptismal cleansing. which are purely pagan rituals of cleansing and purification.

And yes it is disturbing. It is disturbing that it has been almost 2000 years now. And still people by into the roman LIE.

Then again, it is no wonder. The fear romanism places on its people by saying only THEY can interpret the word. and you should not attempt to do it yourself. and the fact that SCRIPTURE (gods own word he spent 200 years putting together) is not complete. and we miust listen to their saying which are not included, or even supported by scripture should be listened to.

The same reasoning and arguments the jews made in Christ's time. why do you think Jesus mother was so scared for him and lied saying he had mental problems. Because the jews religious leaders had such power over its people, just like the Roman church (east or west) church does over its people.

You're getting anti-scriptural here in order to follow your own doctrine. You are making the word of God to non effect. Jesus and the Apostles taught water baptism, the verses in Acts 8 just proved that to you. So I guess Philip and the Ethiopian eunuch were following pagan rituals.... and also Paul when he spoke about the "communion of the blood and body of Christ".

 

[ada]

Wrong again. Scripture tells me I am washed, I am sanctified and I am justified by the SPIRIT OF OUR GOD. Not by being immersed in water.

The HS can not enter us until we are washed. He must wash us before he can enter us. Water baptism will not wash us. it gets us wet.

Scripture also tells me I am born again (regenerated) by the washing and regeneration (new life given) of the HS, not by some priest baptising me in water.

Jesus never said to be baptized to receive the HS, where do you get this? By twisting scripture again?

Why do you want to replace the work of God, which washed us by water (the word) through the HS, with the work of man getting us wet? Do you not know God calls that blasphemy of the spirit??

No sorry you are just wrong,just read your bible.
You should be baptized cause Jesus commanded it.
Matthew 28:18-20
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen.

Here is more :
Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV

Blue Letter Bible - Search Results for KJV

But if you do not believe in Jesus Christ our savior
that i an other story by your own.
I am so sad about all the debating all night long for the simple facts of the gospel.