E
Truth you never heard...
- Thread starter Jason1975
- Start date
-
Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.
If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!
To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
If you believe this, then you must believe that if babies die they go to hell for Adam's sin and not their own.
If one goes to hell, it's because of their own sin, not Adam's. What is true is that all are born with a sin nature and will eventually choose to sin, for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Alot of people come in like this, and we later find out they are not even part of a church. Makes you wonder.
So Eve wouldn't realize she's naked until the one who was directly instructed disobeyed?
What nonsense is this?
If Eve sinned on her own account she should have immediately realized she was naked.
False logic is nothing but claiming that Adam represent humanity while leaving out Eve as if she's not a human.
The rest of mambo jambo on Adam not teaching Eve is just painful to read.
You are obviously set on whatever it is that you believe - I will leave you to it...
Gen 3:1Now the serpent was more crafty than any of the wild animals the Lord God had made. He said to the woman, “Did God really say, ‘You must not eat from any tree in the garden’?”2The woman said to the serpent, “We may eat fruit from the trees in the garden, 3but God did say, ‘You must not eat fruit from the tree that is in the middle of the garden, and you must not touch it, or you will die.’ ”4“You will not certainly die,” the serpent said to the woman. 5“For God knows that when you eat from it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”6When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it. 7Then the eyes of both of them were opened, and they realized they were naked; so they sewed fig leaves together and made coverings for themselves....12The man said, “The woman you put here with me—she gave me some fruit from the tree, and I ate it.”13Then the Lord God said to the woman, “What is this you have done?”The woman said, “The serpent deceived me, and I ate.”
1 Tim 2: 13For Adam was formed first, then Eve. 14And Adam was not the one deceived; it was the woman who was deceived and became a sinner. 15But women[SUP]c[/SUP] will be saved through childbearing—if they continue in faith, love and holiness with propriety.
I don't know what you are talking about but in case you want to learn anything, read again, i've posted for your benefit.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yes i can see it right there, it says Eve was the one who was deceived and became a sinner (1 Tim 2:14) and no where does it imply that Adam witnessed Eve eating the fruit for the first time. From Adams defense (Gen 3:12), it is clear that Adam did not witness Eve eat the fruit the first time.
The question that still stands unanswered is, why didn't Eve realize she was naked the first time she ate the fruit? why did she realize she was naked after Adam ate the fruit?
Jesus took punishment for our sins, can we then say God is unjust or that's how it is?
1 Timothy 2:12 But I suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Paul said he didn’t suffer a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority, because Adam was first formed, then Eve.
By the same reasoning, Jesus Christ, the second Adam, is the firstborn of God’s new creation. And as with Adam, the body of Jesus Christ of Nazareth was first formed, then the church in the resurrection.
Eve was deceived.
To understand how and why requires study.
Adam wasn’t deceived.
Yet, Adam sinned, for he did also eat.
Where there isn’t law, sin is not imputed.
But there was one law, the commandment...
Genesis 2:16-17
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying,
Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
So, Adam’s and Eve’s sin is defined.
But, the cause of the sin is not so easily discerned in either case.
Adam sinned because he loved his own bone and flesh more than he loved God. And when he saw Eve was alienated from him by her sin, he joined her. Which also proved he loved himself more than he did Eve. For had he loved her as Jesus loves, he wouldn’t have joined her, but would’ve obeyed God, sought his counsel and have instead, laid down his life for her.
13 For Adam was first formed, then Eve.
14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.
15 Notwithstanding she shall be saved in childbearing, if they continue in faith and charity and holiness with sobriety.
Paul said he didn’t suffer a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority, because Adam was first formed, then Eve.
By the same reasoning, Jesus Christ, the second Adam, is the firstborn of God’s new creation. And as with Adam, the body of Jesus Christ of Nazareth was first formed, then the church in the resurrection.
Eve was deceived.
To understand how and why requires study.
Adam wasn’t deceived.
Yet, Adam sinned, for he did also eat.
Where there isn’t law, sin is not imputed.
But there was one law, the commandment...
Genesis 2:16-17
And the LORD God commanded the man, saying,
Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat: but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.
So, Adam’s and Eve’s sin is defined.
But, the cause of the sin is not so easily discerned in either case.
Adam sinned because he loved his own bone and flesh more than he loved God. And when he saw Eve was alienated from him by her sin, he joined her. Which also proved he loved himself more than he did Eve. For had he loved her as Jesus loves, he wouldn’t have joined her, but would’ve obeyed God, sought his counsel and have instead, laid down his life for her.
Last edited:
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Here, let me post on verse for you, maybe trying to read it in a paragraph has you confused.
6When he woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, who was with her, and he ate it.
her husband was with her, how could he be with her yet not see what she did. He willfully sinned, she was decieved. BOTH SINNED!
7
7seasrekeyed
Guest
Genesis 2:23 And Adam said, This is now bone of my bones, and flesh of my flesh: she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Adam and Eve were married, and not ashamed of their nakedness.
And married folk have had no shame in nakedness since, unless sin or its consequences enter into the marriage.
Yet, married folk will have shame in nakedness in public settings.
Shame is the expression of embarrassment due to public exposure of truth‘s that humble us. That is, we may even experience unwarranted shame when humbled publically by lies that make us appear less than we desire to be seen as.
When Adam and Eve heard God coming to see them they were shamed by their nakedness because they had obtained the knowledge of good and evil, which made them aware of God’s goodness and his impending judgment of their evil.
God asked who told them they were naked, because they formerly had no knowledge of good, nor evil, but the Devil was on the loose in the garden of Eden.
24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be one flesh.
25 And they were both naked, the man and his wife, and were not ashamed.
Adam and Eve were married, and not ashamed of their nakedness.
And married folk have had no shame in nakedness since, unless sin or its consequences enter into the marriage.
Yet, married folk will have shame in nakedness in public settings.
Shame is the expression of embarrassment due to public exposure of truth‘s that humble us. That is, we may even experience unwarranted shame when humbled publically by lies that make us appear less than we desire to be seen as.
When Adam and Eve heard God coming to see them they were shamed by their nakedness because they had obtained the knowledge of good and evil, which made them aware of God’s goodness and his impending judgment of their evil.
God asked who told them they were naked, because they formerly had no knowledge of good, nor evil, but the Devil was on the loose in the garden of Eden.
I beg to differ. 1 Tim 2 is about submitting to the authority above you. It is supported by:
Eph 5:22Wives, submit yourselves to your own husbands as you do to the Lord. 23For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior. 24Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.
Sin is a spirit which only comes when we hear and believe. When Eve believed satan, sin was already in her and the disobedience is just a manifestation of that sin. But that sin had to be counted on Adam because he had dominion over everything- The reason Eve didn't realize her nakedness until Adam disobeyed. Each had some punishment for disobeying but Death (wages of sin) was on the account of Adam.
The issue about marriage (a husband becoming one flesh with his wife) is very key in the Adam/Eve story and it is the theme that is carried all the way to Christ/Church union and ultimately, salvation.
The one who has dominion over the other is the one who sin is accounted. Eve would have disobeyed a thousand times but it wouldn't matter but Adam because he had dominion over everything, his disobedience mattered and impacted everything including Eve and all life on the planet.
In the same manner, sin and death are overcome in marriage. We the church must submit to the one who has authority and dominion (Christ), then our sins are counted on Him and He is punished on our behalf. And because He is also obedient and righteous, His righteousness is counted on us as long as we submit to Him. He overcame sin and death, we also being one body with Him are counted to have life eternal on His account.
Even though the sin of Adam and Eve is defined, and the apparent cause also defined, nevertheless, a deeper cause for sin emerges upon closer inspection of the matter.
Most of us know that lust is involved. Which is why money is at the root: for money is the medium of the exchange of all things lusted after by carnal man.
But, when we look at...
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
...we find that sin is a conceived thing. Notice that lust is the mother of sin.
Who fathered the sin and how?
We know the answer is that Satan fathered sin in man.
Satan planted his seed in Eve’s mind after first insuring that she had the lust in her heart to mother it.
Satan’s seed was his word, which was a lie, set contrary to God’s word.
And Eve’s strength to conceive was provided by her faith in the word of Satan.
(compare to Sarah’s strength to conceive Isaac, the child of God’s promise (word).
Therefore, unbelief concerning the word of God is the root cause of sin.
Simply stated...
Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. (Romans 14)
Most of us know that lust is involved. Which is why money is at the root: for money is the medium of the exchange of all things lusted after by carnal man.
But, when we look at...
James 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:
14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed.
15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.
...we find that sin is a conceived thing. Notice that lust is the mother of sin.
Who fathered the sin and how?
We know the answer is that Satan fathered sin in man.
Satan planted his seed in Eve’s mind after first insuring that she had the lust in her heart to mother it.
Satan’s seed was his word, which was a lie, set contrary to God’s word.
And Eve’s strength to conceive was provided by her faith in the word of Satan.
(compare to Sarah’s strength to conceive Isaac, the child of God’s promise (word).
Therefore, unbelief concerning the word of God is the root cause of sin.
Simply stated...
Whatsoever is not of faith is sin. (Romans 14)
Last edited:
Adam and Eve were the only people on the entire planet so being with her could mean something that you don't want to admit.
It could mean 1m from her or 100km from her depending on the size of the garden. But there are so many other things which imply Adam was not 1m from her- satan tempted her in isolation and she had time to observe the fruits on a tree that was in the middle of the garden and found them pleasing to the eye. We can assume that she was already in the middle of the garden but if Adam was with her, he would have at least reacted. From Adams defense, we know he was not 1m from her because he says "..it is the woman you gave me who deceived me..". From Adam's reaction we can tell that he was not party to the first agreement made between satan and Eve- if he were, he would taken full responsibility or at least try to blame satan instead of Eve.
We also know that Eve picked and ate the fruit first before bringing some to Adam. She admired the tree for food and the act of eating food is picking as much as possible or at least eating one full one (it was not tasting but eating). She then picked some and took to her husband.
This, coupled with 1 Tim 2, shows that Adam was not close to her when she was tempted and when she ate of the fruit for the first time.
E
eternally-gratefull
Guest
Yeaah man,
Do you have any other thing or we can give you more time to read?
The doctrine of headship and authority is well supported in scripture.
But, 1 Timothy 2:12-13 is aimed at explaining why a woman isn’t allowed to teach or usurp authority over a man. So, I see no differerence on the matter of authority.
As for the rest of your post I see we do differ on...
1. You believe in sin as an evil spirit.
But you provided no proof of the notion.
2. You said sin already existed in Eve.
But James 1 proves that sin must be first, fathered, conceived and then born.
( I have posted on this before reading your post)
3. You claim to know at what moment Eve became ashamed of her nakedness.
But, you provided no proof.
Last edited: