Uh yeah.. But i still sin, and so do you, and all men sin. I did not once say to purposely disobey, but if you are foolish enough to, you are covered eternally.
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Uh yeah.. But i still sin, and so do you, and all men sin. I did not once say to purposely disobey, but if you are foolish enough to, you are covered eternally.
In another thread you said that I could be a murdering Christian and still go to Heaven.
Yeah, I saw that. And I thought why such a drastic example the majority of people cannot identify with?! How about using civil law instead. We are commanded to obey the law of the land, right. So instead of "murderer" insert speeding. Can a saved person who goes over the speed limit be saved and still speed in traffic. It is just a fallacious argument.
Oh, Jesus is the vine, not the root. He is the root of David, but in the teaching he is the vine.
L
LT
Guest
Explain that. People see the gospel through YOUR actions? and you know this? thats a bold statement when people here the actual word of God and still they reject the free gift. So, how do you show people the gospel with your actions? you take people sins upon you?
I am bold only in Christ. When Christ is helping me forgive, and I am able to forgive another, and when Christ is helping me be kind, and I am kind to another, in those moments Christ is seen in me.
Your actions are a part of your witness to others.
Denying that, is denying the work of the Holy Spirit that is within us. Why are you being so aggressive on this? I made no accusation.
I used the exact opposite extreme and talked about lying also.Yeah, I saw that. And I thought why such a drastic example the majority of people cannot identify with?! How about using civil law instead. We are commanded to obey the law of the land, right. So instead of "murderer" insert speeding. Can a saved person who goes over the speed limit be saved and still speed in traffic. It is just a fallacious argument.
L
LT
Guest
Now you are just arguing for the sake of argument... the teaching stands.Oh, Jesus is the vine, not the root. He is the root of David, but in the teaching he is the vine.
Please don't continue in this rant, it is unproductive, as we have already agreed that salvation is based on faith in Christ alone, and that once saved we are called to follow after Christ.
I just wanted you to be clear for everyone what you mean. I know we are ambassadors of Christ and our actions impact the world, we should be the salt of the world. The site isnt just for me, its for the readers too. Asking someone to explain is ok, its not aggressive at all.I am bold only in Christ. When Christ is helping me forgive, and I am able to forgive another, and when Christ is helping me be kind, and I am kind to another, in those moments Christ is seen in me.
Your actions are a part of your witness to others.
Denying that, is denying the work of the Holy Spirit that is within us. Why are you being so aggressive on this? I made no accusation.
Some of the posts cause various things to come to mind for me. Any person who stands by the faith of Christ, in grace... knows there is not a "license to sin", that is ludicrous.
There are some verses the comments brought forth for me "having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof... which creep into houses, lead captive... laden with sins... ever learning, and never able" this is ungodliness, false religious people leading other lost religious people in false doctrine.
Another portion, "unawares brought in... to spy out our liberty" that they might bring us into bondage.
Which made me think of Acts 15.
There are some verses the comments brought forth for me "having a form of godliness, but denying the power thereof... which creep into houses, lead captive... laden with sins... ever learning, and never able" this is ungodliness, false religious people leading other lost religious people in false doctrine.
Another portion, "unawares brought in... to spy out our liberty" that they might bring us into bondage.
Which made me think of Acts 15.
C
cfultz3
Guest
Let us say instead: Can I be a hating Christian and still go to Heaven? The answer to that is still no. The one who hates has neither the Father or the Son. Neither does he have everlasting life in him.Yeah, I saw that. And I thought why such a drastic example the majority of people cannot identify with?! How about using civil law instead. We are commanded to obey the law of the land, right. So instead of "murderer" insert speeding. Can a saved person who goes over the speed limit be saved and still speed in traffic. It is just a fallacious argument.
We can even use your form: Can a saved person who habitually breaks the law (live a lawless life) still be considered a law abiding citizen when he breaks the law? No!!! So, can a lawless Christian still go to Heaven? No!!!!
It is just a fallacious argument to say that we can be lawless and still make it to Heaven.
We cannot be both a law abiding citizen and lawless citizen at the same time.
C
cfultz3
Guest
I used the exact opposite extreme and talked about lying also.
Does a lying Christian have two fathers?
Let us say instead: Can I be a hating Christian and still go to Heaven? The answer to that is still no. The one who hates has neither the Father or the Son. Neither does he have everlasting life in him.
We can even use your form: Can a saved person who habitually breaks the law (live a lawless life) still be considered a law abiding citizen when he breaks the law? No!!! So, can a lawless Christian still go to Heaven? No!!!!
It is just a fallacious argument to say that we can be lawless and still make it to Heaven.
We cannot be both a law abiding citizen and lawless citizen at the same time.
Who taught you calvinism?
Help me with a real life scenario that doesnt involve murder. A man is married, he commits adultery and his wife leaves him. His wife doesnt divorce him out right, but the man files for divorce. The man meets another women and marries her. She has been divorced once also. The man again, commits adultery knowingly, by marrying a women who has been divorced. Since he knew remarrying the woman was a sin, is that mans sin unpaid for? Is he going to hell?
Keep in mind 1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
Keep in mind 1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
C
cfultz3
Guest
If he seeks forgiveness and repent (leave) of that life.Help me with a real life scenario that doesnt involve murder. A man is married, he commits adultery and his wife leaves him. His wife doesnt divorce him out right, but the man files for divorce. The man meets another women and marries her. She has been divorced once also. The man again, commits adultery knowingly, by marrying a women who has been divorced. Since he knew remarrying the woman was a sin, is that mans sin unpaid for? Is he going to hell?
Keep in mind 1 Corinthians 6:9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
But, if he remains where he stands, he rejects the conviction from the Holy Spirit.
C
cfultz3
Guest
Who taught you calvinism?
I don't do logies. Let us stick to Scripture...
I used the exact opposite extreme and talked about lying also.
Oh, I saw it early and have not revisited the thread. I like speeding, because some people seem to for get the vastness of sinning.
If he seeks forgiveness and repent (leave) of that life.
But, if he remains where he stands, he rejects the conviction from the Holy Spirit.
So then he has to go through divorce again, and sin again to make it right? And where is the verses to teach this?
We cannot be both a law abiding citizen and lawless citizen at the same time.
What we are is citizens of heaven dead to sin and alive to God, from God's perspective "without controversy" the scripture says. And, the Scripture also says "no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus" we serve God with our spirit, the holy Spirit of promise, that spirit that is of God. We need to understand our identity and know our doctrine.
T
The_highwayman
Guest
Uh yeah.. But i still sin, and so do you, and all men sin. I did not once say to purposely disobey, but if you are foolish enough to, you are covered eternally.
It will cause you brain damage, but there are some sins, that I committed decades ago, I do not commit anymore....I am tempted yet without sin on those things. They have no power over me anymore, because when I was translated from the power of darkness into the kingdom of his dear son, I got my choice back.
SIN is not a lifestyle.... it's a choice....and that is all over the Bible. We are not powerless over sin one bit, we have authority and power over sin in our lives.
When you stop eating the powdered milk of the word, you will come into this knowledge. You still cling to the sin consciousness, The Bible says we are the Righteousness of God in Christ Jesus.
DO NOT MISTAKE MY MESSAGE: I STILL SIN, BUT ONLY WHEN I CHOSE TO SIN! I AM NOT PERFECT, NOR WILL I EVER BE PERFECT. I still battle over temptations and I do commit SIN!
There is no such things as involuntary sin and you would do really well to study this out in the Bible and then leave whoever is keeping you trapped under that false doctrine. SIN is purely voluntary and we chose to SIN. Study out the SIN cycle in James 1.12-18.
I was raised in a church as a child where the SIN consciousness was held up as a weapon over my head. Thank you Jesus, my parents saw the true light and left that junk. That Pastor was trouble, teaching us that SIN was involuntary, so there is never escape from SIN, newsflash buddy, there is!
Now I know this will cause your brain to hurt and spirit to get all jumbled up and you will seek to divert with silly questions about what i beleive, but really son, take a look at what you are saying and study Romans 8, except for verses 1 and 35-39...When my Dad challenged that Pastor with the rest of Romans 8, we were shunned and kicked out of the church, because it threatened that pastors entire faith and belief system...
That was all the Godly confirmation my Dad needed to know that pastor had zero clue about SIN and the regeneration we have been given.
You are more than just forgiven Son....
As far as the idea that once saved you can live anyway you want, let's see what Jesus said in the Bible about that:
Matt 6.22-23 and in red he said:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]The light of the body is the eye: if therefore thine eye be single, thy whole body shall be full of light.
[SUP]23 [/SUP]But if thine eye be evil, thy whole body shall be full of darkness. If therefore the light that is in thee be darkness, how great is that darkness!
I am not going any further than giving you the verses, but I can assure you those that have evil in their heart and yet profess to have light, have a far greater darkness in them. The Bible goes on to teach us that darkness and light cannot live with each other. You should also study through ALL OF 1 John.
I know many Pastors that won't teach or preach the book of 1 John, because it completely refutes the sin conscious theology that has bound and continues to bind thousands of would be foot soldiers for the kingdom.
Read it Son and gain new insights....the things you say, are not standing true to God's word.
Yes there are people who willingly sin, then there are people who sin and have no idea that what they are doing because they just havent heard Gods word yet, or they are unbelievers. But even believers can unknowingly sin, and until its brought to their attention it will be unknowing. Thats why there is more chastisement given to someone who willingly sins because they know better.
And the thing is, im not even defending sin, im defending grace and eternal security...
And the thing is, im not even defending sin, im defending grace and eternal security...
Atheists can choose to not do some sins or bad choices... they have a moral compass. The thing to grasp is God demands all men everywhere to repent and be reconciled by trusting in Christ & believing the gospel of grace. God looks at where we stand, our position, is it in Adam or in Christ. This is salvation of our souls. Eternal security.