Unborning Eternal Life

[WebersHome]

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Human life is susceptible to death; viz: human life is a kind of life that's very
easy to unborn.

Eternal life is quite a bit different than human life. It's impervious to death;
hence eternal life is impossible to unborn. If that were not true, it would be
possible to assassinate God.

There's quite a number of verses in the New Testament promising eternal
life to Jesus' believing followers; and some of those verses are in the
grammatical present tense; for example:

● John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has eternal life

● John 6:54 . . Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life

Here's three more-- again, note the grammatical tense; it's present,
indicating that Jesus' believing followers have eternal life right now-- no
delay and no waiting period.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message and trust in God
who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins,
but they have already passed from death into life.

● John 6:47 . .Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

● 1John 5:13 . . I write these things to you who believe in the name of the
Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

I suggest ceasing to quarrel about "losing your salvation" and instead
concentrate on obtaining your eternal life because eternal life can't be lost
seeing as how it's impervious to death.

● John 10:27-28 . . My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they
follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish

Webster's defines "never" as: not ever, at no time, not in any degree, not
under any condition.

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[crossnote]

In other words there are no abortions from heaven

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

The eternal life is GOD, not man. Man doesn't own eternal life; he has possession of it inasmuch as he walks in it. Israel had possession of the land, but lost it through disobedience.

The idea that eternal life can't be lost because it is eternal derives from the gnostic heresy that held once a person woke up through knowledge to see that he was an eternal spirit being, he could never be lost.

 

[Grace777x70]

In other words there are no abortions from heaven

LOL..good one..that one made me laugh...thanks!

 

[Grace777x70]

1 John 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

 

[FreeNChrist]

The eternal life is GOD, not man. Man doesn't own eternal life; he has possession of it inasmuch as he walks in it. Israel had possession of the land, but lost it through disobedience.

The idea that eternal life can't be lost because it is eternal derives from the gnostic heresy that held once a person woke up through knowledge to see that he was an eternal spirit being, he could never be lost.

Oops, there it is. That eternal life that isn't eternal. An oxymoron if ever there was one.

 

[Grace777x70]

Oops, there it is. That eternal life that isn't eternal. An oxymoron if ever there was one.

I like crossnote's comment...there are no abortions in heaven. That is in effect what people are accusing God of when they say we will lose His life that is in us....He in essence is aborting us even though the scriptures say " I will never leave nor forsake you"...does He abort those born of Him - redeemed by the blood of Christ? Of course not...it's a smoke screen for those trying to establish their own salvation by works.

 

[Magenta]

Haha I thought you had said unboring eternal life. Well, that is a complaint of some non believers, when they get over their indignation and grousing about not going to heaven and how unfair of God it is to keep them out (despite their recalcitrant refusal to acknowledge Him as the creator of the universe, and author and giver of life), then they start in with how boring eternity will be anyway, with a bunch of party poopers and holier than thou hypocritical Christians. That is when they pull out their "how much more fun it will be in hell" card, and talk about how those in heaven will be stuck with people like Hitler and Dalmer forever, as if they know who is saved, and as if the fact that Jesus forgives all but the unforgivable sin is such a bad thing. Of course they completely overlook that our new life will be in the new Earth

As to the eternal nature of the soul: nowhere is it stated in Scripture that eternal life exists aside from accepting the propitiatory sacrifice that Jesus Christ made on our behalf. Scripture explicitly states that God can and will at some point completely destroy the soul in sin, and sin itself. There is no eternal life for those whose names are not written in the Lamb's book of life. Death and hell are likewise done away with. The idea of eternal torment in hell is bad theology from top to bottom. Nobody can be unborn, but we need to be born again of the Spirit, for the flesh counts for nothing.

The losing salvation issue took a turn recently to becoming about what constitutes salvation, or how one gains it. Some were saying that water baptism is a necessary component, even though John the Baptist made a distinction in all four gospels between baptism with water and the baptism by fire that Jesus Christ would effect on believers via the Holy Spirit of God. Since the whole thrust of Scripture pertains to our need of being born again Spiritually, it seems so plain to many that the baptism required for salvation is the one administered by Jesus Christ, Who gave His life after having fulfilled the requirements of the law, that we might stand in His righteousness on the day of reckoning, covered by His righteous blood, being found in Him, counted as His, and sealed by His Spirit through our baptismal rebirth, adopted as children of God and inheritors of the promises, one of which is eternal life. At that time there will be no more sorrow or tears or suffering, nor pain nor death and dying. Such a glorious future we have to look forward to! Praise God and glory hallelujah He loved us so much He sent His Son to be the propitiation for our sins. Those are my thoughts this Friday morning I wish you all a wonderful God blessed day!

. . . . . . . .

 

[WebersHome]

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Q: If Jesus' believing followers have eternal, then why do they still die just
like everybody else?

A: Eternal life is often mistaken for immortality. The two are not the same.

Immortality is a physical kind of life that has to do with a superhuman body
impervious to age, death, and putrefaction.

Eternal life, on the other hand, isn't a physical kind of life; it's a spirit kind of
life; which is why it's possible for people to obtain eternal life before they
obtain immortality.

For example: according to John 5:26-27 and 1John 1:1-2 Christ had eternal
life when he was here. However, according to Rom 6:9 he didn't obtain
immortality until his resurrection.

The same holds true for Christ's believing followers. According to Rom 8:23-
25 and 1Cor 15:35-54, they too won't obtain immortality until their
resurrections.

So then, eternal life has zero to do with the longevity of a human body.
That's something else altogether.

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[know1]

-
Human life is susceptible to death; viz: human life is a kind of life that's very
easy to unborn.

Eternal life is quite a bit different than human life. It's impervious to death;
hence eternal life is impossible to unborn. If that were not true, it would be
possible to assassinate God.

There's quite a number of verses in the New Testament promising eternal
life to Jesus' believing followers; and some of those verses are in the
grammatical present tense; for example:

● John 3:36 . . He who believes in the Son has eternal life

● John 6:54 . . Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life

Here's three more-- again, note the grammatical tense; it's present,
indicating that Jesus' believing followers have eternal life right now-- no
delay and no waiting period.

● John 5:24 . . I assure you, those who heed my message and trust in God
who sent me, have eternal life. They will never be condemned for their sins,
but they have already passed from death into life.

● John 6:47 . .Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes has eternal life.

● 1John 5:13 . . I write these things to you who believe in the name of the
Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.

I suggest ceasing to quarrel about "losing your salvation" and instead
concentrate on obtaining your eternal life because eternal life can't be lost
seeing as how it's impervious to death.

● John 10:27-28 . . My sheep listen to my voice; I know them, and they
follow me. I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish

Webster's defines "never" as: not ever, at no time, not in any degree, not
under any condition.

=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=

Yes, we do have within us, eternal life, so long as we keep the word of God, we shall continue in the son.
1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.
1Jn 2:25 And this is the promise that he hath promised us, even eternal life.

But if we do not keep the truth of the gospel, we will not keep the son. For, he who has the Son, has life, and he who does not have the Son, does not have life abiding in him.
For we are born again BY the word of God.
1Pe 1:23 Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, by the word of God, which liveth and abideth for ever.


And who or what is the Son of God?
Among other things, he IS the WORD of God, and the Word of God IS TRUTH.
So since the word of God says we are born again BY the word of God, and the word is the salt/light/seed/offspring/blood/life/truth/Holy Spirit of God, then it would stand to reason, that if we do not keep the truth of the gospel, neither will we keep the life/seed/offspring of the Son of God.
We have eternal life because of the Spirit that abides in our hearts. But if you no longer agree with the truth, can two walk together except they be agreed? The answer is, no.
I talked with a former ordained baptist minister, who turned atheist, because, he said he died three times and all he saw was blackness. So because he based his believing on his experience, he no longer believed Jesus was his personal savior, nor that there is a God, or a heaven, or that there is a hell.
He once believed with all his heart in Jesus, like many of you, so much so, that he became a minister, with his wife. But because his believing, or rather foundation, was not in the rock but on the sand, he was offended, and fell away.
Will this man or his wife go to heaven? I think, not.

Also, we are heaven bound BECAUSE our sins are forgiven us, but if we refuse to forgive someone else's offense, as it is written, neither will the Father forgive us our sins.
Mar 11:26 But if ye do not forgive, neither will your Father which is in heaven forgive your trespasses.


So I ask, can the blood of Jesus remove, wash away, or cover what God said He will not forgive?
Again I ask, if a sin is not forgiven by the Father, will God let any profane thing in heaven?
And yet again I ask, is God a respecter of persons, regardless of their status? Wasn't Jesus the Son of God before He was sent to hell? And did God the Father spare Him when He became sin for us? So would God break His word and do any less to us, if we fail to repent of our debt collecting?

It has been taught that in order for a child of God to be sent to hell, Jesus Himself would have to go to hell, because we are in and of the body of Christ.
Part of that is not true.
If Jesus told us to cut off or pluck out a part of our body that offends us so that we don't get sent to hell, is God a hypocrite that He would do any less with those who are in Him that He finds offensive? Such as those who refuse to forgive everyone that offends them?
Again, I think, not.
I find there to be more than enough scripture to cast reasonable doubt for OSAS.

 

[FreeNChrist]

Yes, we do have within us, eternal life, so long as we..........

In what is eternal there is no "so long as". Eternal means no beginning and no end. Our eternal life does not begin with us, it is only received by us....and that only in the One who has eternal life, Christ Jesus. We have eternal life because we have Jesus Christ in whom is eternal life.

 

[FreeNChrist]

-
Q: If Jesus' believing followers have eternal, then why do they still die just
like everybody else?

A: Eternal life is often mistaken for immortality. The two are not the same.

Immortality is a physical kind of life that has to do with a superhuman body
impervious to age, death, and putrefaction.

Eternal life, on the other hand, isn't a physical kind of life; it's a spirit kind of
life; which is why it's possible for people to obtain eternal life before they
obtain immortality.

For example: according to John 5:26-27 and 1John 1:1-2 Christ had eternal
life when he was here. However, according to Rom 6:9 he didn't obtain
immortality until his resurrection.

The same holds true for Christ's believing followers. According to Rom 8:23-
25 and 1Cor 15:35-54, they too won't obtain immortality until their
resurrections.

So then, eternal life has zero to do with the longevity of a human body.
That's something else altogether.

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If immortality relates to physicality how do we explain that the invisible God who is Spirit, is described as possessing immortality??

 

[Grace777x70]

There are a lot of times in the original greek the "if" is actually a statement of it is fulfilled.....

example:

Colossians 1:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


If so be that ye continue in the faith ([FONT="Gentium" !important]ei ge epimenete tēi pistei[/FONT]). Condition of the first class (determined as fulfilled),

A. T. Robertson Word Pictures in the New Testament.



Example in our modern english....you went to the bank ( determined as being fulfilled )..and I say to you.... If you went to the bank give me $100 bucks...


I'll take a check too...

 

[WebersHome]

If immortality relates to physicality how do we explain that the invisible God
who is Spirit, is described as possessing immortality??

You'll have to provide a reference before I can answer your question.

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[WebersHome]

Colossians 1:23 . . if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established
and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you
have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of
which I, Paul, was made a minister.

Unless you find a way to obtain eternal life unconditionally, I can just about
guarantee you will pass on without it.

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[FreeNChrist]

You'll have to provide a reference before I can answer your question.

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"...God, the blessed and only Ruler, the King of kings and Lord of lords, who alone is immortal and who lives in unapproachable light, whom no one has seen or can see. To Him be honor and might forever. Amen." 1 Timothy 6:15-16

"Now to the King eternal, immortal, invisible, the only God, be honor and glory for ever and ever. Amen." 1 Timothy 1:17

 

[Grace777x70]

Unless you find a way to obtain eternal life unconditionally, I can just about
guarantee you will pass on without it.

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Read post #13 again...slowly and meditate on it. We have eternal life now because Christ is in us! That settles it for me..I'm a believer in what Christ has done and I rest in His finished work....

 

[know1]

There are a lot of times in the original greek the "if" is actually a statement of it is fulfilled.....

example:

Colossians 1:23 (NASB)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister.


If so be that ye continue in the faith (ei ge epimenete tēi pistei). Condition of the first class (determined as fulfilled),

A. T. Robertson Word Pictures in the New Testament.



Example in our modern english....you went to the bank ( determined as being fulfilled )..and I say to you.... If you went to the bank give me $100 bucks...


I'll take a check too...

I always amazes me what people will do to propagate what they want the bible to say.
So let's examine the assumption that it is already done.

Col 1:23 If ye continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, which ye have heard, and which was preached to every creature which is under heaven; whereof I Paul am made a minister;

First off, the Greek word used in Colossians differs from that of the ones in 1 John and Hebrews, though it has a similar definition, it has the same function as the one I used in 1 Jn. It too is a conditional conjunction.
Its condition is based on "continuing", 1) to stay at or with, to tarry still, to abide, to persevere, to continue, or remain in the truth of the gospel, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel, [so long as you shall live], is what if implied.
If one is not gone to be with the lord yet, they have not FINISHED the course of the condition. The condition is ongoing, continuing in and not being moving away from the faith, till they die or are taken up in the rapture. If you are still here, the condition has NOT been fulfilled.
Unlike Paul in your example, you have not finished the course. You are not about to depart from this world.

2Ti 4:6 For I am now ready to be offered, and the time of my departure is at hand.
2Ti 4:7 I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith:

If anyone's condition of continuing in the faith while not being moved away from the hope of the gospel had been fulfilled, it was Paul, who was about to die.
It is to the end, not while you are still running the race.

Heb 3:14 For we are made partakers of Christ, if we hold the beginning of our confidence stedfast unto the end;

1Jn 2:24 Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father.

Mat 4:9 And saith unto him, All these things will I give thee, if G1437 thou wilt fall down and worship me.

According to the Greek, the word "if G1437", is a conditional conjunction also. And like it says below, "it is often used in connection with other particles.
So I thought I would give an example above of a condition that was not fulfilled, when the devil prompted Jesus to bow down and worship him.

G1437
ἐάν
ean
Thayer Definition:
1) if, in case
Part of Speech: conjunction

Strong's Definition:
From G1487 and G302; a conditional particle; in case that, provided, etc.; often used in connection with other particles to denote indefiniteness or uncertainty:

If the condition is not yet fulfilled, such as your life in not in the balance and you are not about to die, then it casts uncertainty in the situation.
On the other hand, when you are about to go, to be with the lord, there is a certainty of the end results, because you are finished, and only then has the condition of, "if" you continue unmovable to the end, been fulfilled.

 

[know1]

In what is eternal there is no "so long as". Eternal means no beginning and no end. Our eternal life does not begin with us, it is only received by us....and that only in the One who has eternal life, Christ Jesus. We have eternal life because we have Jesus Christ in whom is eternal life.

Jesus said, except you eat my flesh and drink my blood, you have no life in you.
The blood of Jesus is the truth of the gospel.
The blood of Jesus IS the Holy Ghost.
One drinks His blood when they believe, agree with, and receive the truth of the gospel.
When one rejects the truth of God's word, they reject the Holy Ghost, which is the seed whereby we are sealed.

Eph 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
Eph 1:14 Which is the earnest of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of his glory.


Again, can two walk together except they be agreed?

 

[Grace777x70]

I'll just stick with the truth of believing in Christ is what will save me and when I die I will go to be with my Lord. No amount of works-based religion will keep me out. If people want to depend on "their" works to get them to heaven - they can take that up with the Lord.

1 John 5:13 (NASB)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] These things I have written to you who believe in the name of the Son of God, so that you may know that you have eternal life.

Jude 1:24-25 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumbling, and to make you stand in the presence of His glory blameless with great joy,
[SUP]25 [/SUP] to the only God our Savior, through Jesus Christ our Lord, be glory, majesty, dominion and authority, before all time and now and forever. Amen.

When Jesus falls apart and can't perfect me - then I'll be destroyed ( But it's not going to happen )

Philippians 1:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] For I am confident of this very thing, that He who began a good work in you will perfect it until the day of Christ Jesus.


1 John 3:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Beloved, now we are children of God, and it has not appeared as yet what we will be. We know that when He appears, we will be like Him, because we will see Him just as He is.