Unconditional love and the church's approach to homosexuality

[Mark47Oz]

[QUOTE="CS1, post: 4587778, ]

There is no such thing as a "Gay Christian" no more than darkness can mix with light.

[/QUOTE]

You're the classic hard hearted Bible Thumper that cause much angst on both sides.

My Pentecostal friend also happens to work in deliverance. We've talked openly about my sexulaity and my life story. And guess what, as much as she would love to give me deliverance, she literally cannot discern anything to deliver me from.

You are speaking from a place of prejudice and pride. You may know scripture inside out. But you do not know the love of Christ.

 

[Mark47Oz]

Hey, how come everyone has stopped commenting now that a gay person has come among us?
Where is all the "guidance in love"?

They run because they think the devil himself has entered the room.

It's easy to judge us and debate us, but when one of us turns up, and puts a human face / voice to the debate everyone scatters.

Here's the 100% truth. I'm still gay. I spent years begging God to take it away from me. But he didn't. I reached out to the church for help and it's people judged me and cast me out. So I just gave up and my heart hardened against God because his people had cast me out. And even worse, had made me believe judgement had already been passed on me and there was no hope in this life or the next. All because of something I have no control over.

But I actually don't care what people think of me anymore. The light of Christ can shine in me. The Holy Spirit does move in me. I am a child of the light and I do love our Father the Creator very much.

My judgement will come from the Trinity alone.

We do not hate homosexuals why should we?

You hate it yourself. you hate yourself, what you are. You are trying to desperately flee from yourself.

Here is God's message to YOU personally

"Come let us reason together though your sins be as scarlet they shall be as white as wool, as pure as the driven snow"
Jesus is calling you, you don't have to go to church to find Him, call upon Him where you are. "Jesus I want to be set FREE, I want to be saved, Jesus I want this NEW LIFE which you came to impart, to be born again. I receive You as my Lord."

If you really mean it He will do everything else.

Jesus came into my room that night to find me and call me out. As for my walk with him, that's my personal journey. This ain't my first rodeo and I'm not new to Christianity.

I know Jesus will lead the way. I've asked him to. In fact that's one of my most common prayers these days 'Jesus, lead the way' that and 'I am here Lord'

And no, I don't hate myself anymore. Shame is the place where Satan lives. It was the self doubt, the belief that I, a gay person could never be worthy of the promise of Christ that kept me from Jesus that the dark one had a field day with. He used the scripture itself to drive a wedge between me and my Saviour, just like he tried to with Jesus in the desert. Except Jesus was a lot smarter than me and saw it for what it was and rebuked him immediately.

 

[Unearthed]

They run because they think the devil himself has entered the room.

It's easy to judge us and debate us, but when one of us turns up, and puts a human face / voice to the debate everyone scatters.

And this tells you all you need to know.
Keep your eyes on Jesus

 

[DeanM]

Sin is sin. Homosexuality, fornication etc. We all know what sin is. After salvation one is to do the best we can to live sin free. Many here have posted about celibacy and the struggles with it. We all sin, choosing to live in sin is the difference.

 

[Unearthed]

Sin is sin. Homosexuality, fornication etc. We all know what sin is. After salvation one is to do the best we can to live sin free. Many here have posted about celibacy and the struggles with it. We all sin, choosing to live in sin is the difference.

By the sounds of it @Mark47Oz has struggled with his sexuality for many years and has repeatedly asked for help with this from both the Church and Jesus Himself. See his previous posts.

So would you say that he is "doing his best to live sin free" or are you accusing him of "living in sin" (see bold in the quote above)? I'm sure you wouldn't want to be presumptuous or to judge.

 

[DeanM]

I would say life is full of choices.

 

[Unearthed]

I would say life is full of choices.

Hmmm, not much to say all of a sudden...

 

[DeanM]

Hmmm, not much to say all of a sudden...

Ive said above what I had to say. If you want touchy feely nonsense you could perhaps find a new age site that will tell you what you want to hear. You start threads just to start arguments. Im not playing your game.

 

[Unearthed]

Ive said above what I had to say. If you want touchy feely nonsense you could perhaps find a new age site that will tell you what you want to hear. You start threads just to start arguments. Im not playing your game.

I'm not starting threads to start arguments at all. Some of my threads are genuine questions which I don't know the answer to while others are designed to challenge existing dogma.

But it's OK, if you'd rather make it personal with me now, so be it.
Have a wonderfully blessed day.

 

[CS1]

[QUOTE="CS1, post: 4587778, ]

There is no such thing as a "Gay Christian" no more than darkness can mix with light.

You're the classic hard hearted Bible Thumper that cause much angst on both sides.

My Pentecostal friend also happens to work in deliverance. We've talked openly about my sexulaity and my life story. And guess what, as much as she would love to give me deliverance, she literally cannot discern anything to deliver me from.

You are speaking from a place of prejudice and pride. You may know scripture inside out. But you do not know the love of Christ.[/QUOTE]


Your friend is unlearned I am not. You have an addiction, and practicing sexual idolatry.


names calling will not make you more biblically correct. That is why those who suffer from that kind of sexual Idolatry have anger issues and self-abuse. What you fail to understand is one's sexuality should be kept in the context as God created it to be.

Not in fornication, not in adultery, and not in homosexuality. BUT is marriage between one man and one woman. AS Gen 2:24 says.

You piping off the oh-so-familiar attacks by those who are gays activists: Bible thumper, prejudice, pride, etc..

I am not speaking from any of that, I am speaking the truth. And I do know the love of God he saved me from sexual perversion and addictions I know more about the love and freedom of God because HE has set me free from sexual sin not saved me In my sexual sin. I have suffered abuse from family members in my childhood and I had a rebellious spirit just like you do. Jesus removed all of that.

Today I am saved filled with the Holy Spirit a minister of the Gospel of Jesus Christ married to one woman for 29 years three children and blessed < free and have the peace of God.

I am speaking from experience and the God I serve can set you free from your sin of Homosexuality. You are not a Christian and gay you are a Christian who is struggling with sexual sin and if you do not fully surrender to the Lord Jesus Christ you will be a disobedient child just as I was and be in torment and no peace.


Your labeling of me will not work. I am telling you the truth and you know I am. You have no peace, no joy, and you are tormented. All the one-liners of those weak Chr-INO's and left activist will not set you free but you will feel better about yourself for about two hours then when you go to sleep the acts begin.

You want to be free?

Repent, surrender, receive and separate from those who are addicted to sexual perversions. I am not better than you I am just free by the power of God and delivered. I don't talk about being delivered I tell all I HAVE BEEN DELIVERED!!!
By the Lord Jesus Christ and you can too.

God Bless

 

[Mark47Oz]

Sin is sin. Homosexuality, fornication etc. We all know what sin is. After salvation one is to do the best we can to live sin free. Many here have posted about celibacy and the struggles with it. We all sin, choosing to live in sin is the difference.

I'm 47 years old. I'm not new on the block and I have literally tried everything to find peace in my life.

That night I walked into the confessional and repented of being gay ....

Had I been told that God forgives me and he wants to help me move toward a more holy life I wouldn't have turned away. But instead I was told there is no absolution for a person like me. That I must not partake of the of our holiest of sacraments anymore.

So, yes I did make the choice to walk away. What else was in suposed to do when the door of salvation was slammed shut in my face by a human passing judgement on me?

 

[CS1]

I'm 47 years old. I'm not new on the block and I have literally tried everything to find peace in my life.

That night I walked into the confessional and repented of being gay ....

Had I been told that God forgives me and he wants to help me move toward a more holy life I wouldn't have turned away. But instead I was told there is no absolution for a person like me. That I must not partake of the of our holiest of sacraments anymore.

So, yes I did make the choice to walk away. What else was in suposed to do when the door of salvation was slammed shut in my face by a human passing judgement on me?

all sinners are like you just the sinful act is different. The porn addict, drunkard, adulterer, and homosexual and those who practice such things Will does not inherit the kingdom of God. NO one is passing judgment on you you are judged already by your own words. What you says and do condemn you But Jesus can set you free

 

[Unearthed]

So, yes I did make the choice to walk away. What else was in suposed to do when the door of salvation was slammed shut in my face by a human passing judgement on me?

Just remember that the people at your local Church do not hold the key to salvation. They do not decide who gets it and who doesn't.

I know I'm a fine one to talk myself as I've had unrelated experiences that have tested me and interfered with my faith, but keep your eyes on Jesus. Don't worry too much about the white noise.

 

[Jocund]

Hey, how come everyone has stopped commenting now that a gay person has come among us?
Where is all the "guidance in love"?

Who stopped commenting?

Sodomy between two men (or a man and a boy) is sinful. So is lying, so is being a drunkard, or a swindler, etc.

If someone had a drinking problem, would you help them? How would you proceed to help them?

Do some people need tough love? Do some people need gentle love? Do we let people drink themselves to death? What do you see as the right answer in this circumstance?

 

[CS1]

Just remember that the people at your local Church do not hold the key to salvation. They do not decide who gets it and who doesn't.

I know I'm a fine one to talk myself as I've had unrelated experiences that have tested me and interfered with my faith, but keep your eyes on Jesus. Don't worry too much about the white noise.

Does your faith, and your eyes make what God said obsolete? Can one keep their eyes on Jesus and while suffering from sexual idolatry? it sounds more like you are saying your opinion over God's word and making the love of God accept what HIS Holy Nature will never accept. If a gay, or drunkard or fornicator is saved and still continues in the sin as if they were never saved what did Jesus save them from? Or did Jesus just used to be forgiven but next Saturday Night it on again.

The reason why many gays are not set free is the same reason why those who are ADDICTED TO PORN ARE NOT,

They don't want to be. They are not sick enough of the depravity that will pull them deeper into the sin of perversion and if they get too deep they very well may never come back. That is so sad, yet those who groomed the sin and spoke the word of God in error have the greater sin. I would not want to be like them on that day. They will as you will and I answer to the living God.

 

[TheLearner]

I believe that the way many churches and Christians approach the issue of homosexuality is unbiblical.

Churches market themselves as offering unconditional love.
However, all too often they use a bait and switch tactic whereby they offer unconditional love to tempt people in and yet once 'captured', it is discovered that this love and acceptance is conditional on the newcomer changing in whichever way the church 'elders' dictate they should change.
If the church member doesn't change, they may find that they are not included in ways that they were before.

This is manipulation and spiritual abuse, and is absolutely not the kind of unconditional love offered by Jesus.

Before anybody says that homosexuality is forbidden by the Bible and that I'm "ignoring scripture"...
Prostitution is also forbidden in the Bible, and we all know how Jesus asked people not to throw stones and cast judgement.

You see, Jesus uses love to define scripture, and yet humans use scripture to define love.

Jesus reached out to the marginalised, and yet we reach out to condemn.
Perhaps it's in our fallen nature to want to play God?

Lastly, the reason I'm sticking up for homosexuals and using them as an example here is not because I'm gay myself, just as the reason why I'm against racism is not because I am black.

Friend, are you willing to die for a gay person? If not, you do not have unconditional love, nor do I claim to have it neither.

 

[peldom10]

Agreed.
It's amazing how some people on here refer to themselves, of us as a group, as "righteous".
We are not righteous. We all live in sin, which is why we need Jesus.

Righteous is the only single word we have to refer to our efforts to be right with God. We cannot say perfect. We can say, as God did with Job......perfect servant...if we are righteous.

 

[peldom10]

If this gets me banned from this site, so be it.

I'm one of the people this thread is about. Yep, I'm gay. And here is my 2 cents.

Yes, the Bible condemns us. Old testament and new. We can't escape it. I can't escape it. But to write us off before we die is to cut us off from the grace and salvation Jesus purchased on the cross for EVERYONE.

As a Christian I was cast out by family and shunned by my church. The last time I went to confession any confessed that I was gay (but single at the time - yes I'm Catholic) I was told that I was living in mortal sin and that until I walked away from my sinful life I was separated from the mercy of Christ. I remember attending mass and the pain that I felt was so great. I could feel the separation from Christ deeply in my soul and I was literally a blubbering mess. I left church that night with a feeling of total desolation. Even God had abandoned me and given up on me. Or so I thought.


I lived a life of great sin, cut off the glory of God. I was always unhappy, I couldn't love myself because I reasoned that if God hated me, why should I have any self respect. I just wanted to die and get it over and done with and end up in hell. Might as well bring on the inevitable I guessed.

Eventually I moved to another country because I could not find peace in my own and while I lived riskiky, my plan of dying early wasn't working either. I met a partner and we somehow managed to stick together and at least get some material stability in worldly terms. That was 16 years ago and I just switched off and became comfortably numb. I figured I wasn't quite happy but it wasn't unbearable either, so it was the best compromise I could hope for.

Then a few months ago Jesus Christ himself entered my room. He showed me something so painful it cut me to pieces. He showed me he wanted to be with me. I saw myself in grey tattered robes in front of him and I was felt so unworthy. So unworthy I said 'Lord I cannot be in your presence, how can you come before me when I am so worthless to you' and he just said to me 'My son, are you with me?'

I tried to answer and I couldn't. My lips were bound. Something had me in its grips. I struggled, but I managed to say the first three words I'd said to him in years 'I am here Lord' As those words left my lips, something went screaming, away. It sounded like a possum actually. And I just wept like a baby. Jesus had just re-entered my life.

In the months since, it's been hectic. I'm trying to make sense if what is going on, still cut off from my spiritual home. I'm honestly terrified of rejoining a parish for fear of judgement again. I'm still gay, but God has called me out. I have no idea what he wants from me, but I'm ready to leave my entire life behind and follow him just like the apostles did.

Soooo if you hate gay people or if you think we don't belong in God's plan, consider this very personal testimony.

You cannot be a Christian and be gay. To say you are a Christian and are gay is to act self serving.....and not in compliance with scriptures.
We must be without ongoing sinfulness in order to be in compliance with God's word and thus able to refer to ourselves as...Christian.

One can choose any self serving rationale one wishes ...that does not make a sinful act in compliance with God. You, as with all sinners, must repent and then turn away from a sinful lifestyle.

Wy are you alone?....God cuts us all off if we do not comply with His commandments.

 

[CS1]

Righteous is the only single word we have to refer to our efforts to be right with God. We cannot say perfect. We can say, as God did with Job......perfect servant...if we are righteous.

that is a very good point to be righteous means you are in the right relationship with God.

 

[Blade]

A preacher many years ago went to bed at around 12 I think and the lord woke him up. The preacher made a vow about that.. if the lord wanted to talk to him wake him up any time. The preacher had to be at the radio station early and lol was telling God that as if God forgot . He gets up goes to the radio station yet they were working on the road and he got lost. So about 2+ hours had passed and he sees this tiny gas station.. hes happy now. It was a gas station with a guy in a little window in the middle with a sliding door. So two guys where there one had tattoos and a Satan thing round his neck. The preacher asked if they knew where the radio station was. The one guy said "is that the one they talk about Christian stuff?" YES the preacher said. The guy with the Satan medallion around his neck said "Im out of here". The other guy said "give me one reason why I should not kill my self" The preacher said I can give you a thousand but Jesus died for you so you can have life and have it more abundantly"

See he pulled out this 38 and said he was about to kill him self when that other guy came up but was waiting until he left so no one would be around. The preacher kept talking to him.. he got saved gave the preacher his gun said he wont be needing it any more.

He told this story first I am sure its not word for word. It was the other I want to shear. So he was preaching and said there was a gay man that had heard him telling the 1st story. The preacher said there were doors after the front ones so he never saw anyone there. He said he preached and then there was a line for people that wanted to be prayed for. He said he prayed for 3 of them when the lord said "stop and go to your left run as fast as you can to the front". So he told the others around him to pray for them he had another assignment. He runs to his left down the hallway as fast as he could and said "you don't have take your life Jesus died for you He loves you". He said the man just melted down in tears. The man said I stood in the door way listening to your testamony how you hear from God and how theres a God that can hear and listen and if you call on Him he'll answer. He said I stood in those doors and prayed for the 1st time in my life and said if theres a God and loves me if you will sent that man to me I will not jump in the river and take my life.

That man thought.. ah He didn't hear this and was starting to leave. He said he gave up and was heading out and thats when the preacher came running around the corner. I can't speak for man... but Jesus loves us.. no matter who you are. To many times I say things asking for help yet I really don't mean it.. the times I really needed Him He was there every time. I once said lol how ..you have no been here all the time where were you? One of those times you know He won't talk back to you. Oh He did "WHEN Have I ever failed you". Makes me cry now.. then shows you.. you start to remember things you thought you forgot...every time He was there. We don't see it hear it feel it.. He never fails you.

I like these stories.. I know so many of them.