Unconditional love verses from God to us the people

[GWH]

Regarding humans there is no absolute objectivity;
dictionaries are opinions about common usage.

 

[Rufus]

Father, revealed to me in the risen Son, for us all. All are called to believe God and be new in God. It is God that seeks God's creation, us the people. John 4:23-24. As I see it, this is deeply, wide, high and not fathomable to first born flesh. One, (from Daddy, PaPa, Father) needs new life given them, this given is a gift period to me at least and many others as well. Trusting God will reveal this truth to you too, thank you.
I see to seek that out, have sought that out and have been given this beyond flesh nature understanding. That you just said you did not ask for. To be new alive and in love to all, thanks to God's love for all. Demonstrated by Son going to that cross without any flesh fight back. That is what I see God has done once for us all, to have given us new life given us from God Father once one, anyone believes God and does not quit belief will see eventually, going through adversities. once, anyone, see the reconciliation given them first, personally! Not collectively as in a Church group, to me I see God in Hebrews 8:1-4, God built the true Church (which is not the word Church, it is the Ecclesia, that got that true name changed to Church, in the Bible.) Church from Greek = Building. Ecclesia in Greek, means the "Called out ones"
However, God sincerely loves us all, otherwise, Son would have not gone to that cross willingly to first reconcile everyone as forgiven by God. 2 Cor 5:17-20. Seeing verse 16 as well, seeing once we knew Christ in the flesh and blood, today no more. Son is risen for us to be new presently forever in Daddy's Spirit and Truth, the Holy Spirit. Born again by God for us in risen Son to us. To, see in Spirit and truth of God alone (Son included, the only way to get this to begin with, from the view Daddy has given me, humbly. To, see the first born flesh as dead and do right, not guess, with maybe's, should have. could have, better do it better next time. Born again by God Father, one, anyone born new by God does right. Are given the new nature and do righteously. Not of self, Only, of Father's righteousness only. The same as Jesus did first, for us all to believe, receive and be new in love and mercy too, to all. If you have others you still hate, in your life, you might want to regroup and go to God in Spirit and Truth and ask. Then get born new or not by God too, depending on your choice., thank you. God loves you personally, sorry you not see that personally yet, love from Daddy, PaPa, Father to us all is the call I heard and decided to believe Eph 1:6.7.13 Phil 1:6 Growing in grace from God through risen Son

Here you are talking about your salvation experience when the topic in this thread is God's supposed unconditional love. We should really try to stick to the narrow topic at hand -- which is the true nature of God's love. Do you know any passage in Scripture that explicitly (operative term here!) teaches that God loves each and every person in the world w/o exception?

 

[Rufus]

Regarding humans there is no absolute objectivity;
dictionaries are opinions about common usage.

Well, we are using a very common word. If you don't want commonly used words that are often bandied about in theology books, commentaries, etc. then maybe you should refrain from using such terms as "unconditional". The inerrant, infallible, authoritative and inspired Word of God is most assuredly the only ABSOLUTE, objective truth this dark, fallen, depraved, vile, evil world has.

So...how would you define "unconditional"? You must have some foggy, hazy, ambiguous notion since this is a favorite term that is often used by people like yourself who think you understand the nature of God's love.

 

[GWH]

Well, we are using a very common word. If you don't want commonly used words that are often bandied about in theology books, commentaries, etc. then maybe you should refrain from using such terms as "unconditional". The inerrant, infallible, authoritative and inspired Word of God is most assuredly the only ABSOLUTE, objective truth this dark, fallen, depraved, vile, evil world has.

So...how would you define "unconditional"? You must have some foggy, hazy, ambiguous notion since this is a favorite term that is often used by people like yourself who think you understand the nature of God's love.

I don't mind using the term "unconditional", and GW is inerrant,
but beware of thinking you are objective or infallible.

 

[Rufus]

I don't mind using the term "unconditional", and GW is inerrant,
but beware of thinking you are objective or infallible.

Translate: I don't have the first clue what "unconditional" means; but I like using the term because it sounds good and it tickles my ears.

 

[Rufus]

Now that I have been the only one to be so bold and audacious to actually define the term "unconditional" out of two different dictionaries, I will now present four biblical passages wherein Jesus himself had a very different view of the nature of God's love than most professing Christians have. Here they are in all their glory:

John 10:17
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life — only to take it up again.
NIV

John 14:21
21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
NIV

John 15:10
10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.
NIV

John 16:27
27 No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.
NIV

Facts:

1. Jesus in all the above texts qualified the extent of God's love by limiting the objects of that love to those who love and/or obey God's will. Jesus himself was the object of his Father's love on the condition of his obedience to Him.

2. If God's love is unconditional in nature, then the reason for His love to anyone cannot be found its object. The texts would have to say something along the lines of "God loves you because He is love". The reason or condition(s) for God loving anyone would have to be found only within God himself! But that clearly is not the case with any of the texts above.

3. If God's love is unconditional in nature, then what Jesus taught is absolutely meaningless, redundant and contradictory. How could it be possible for a righteous, holy and good God to love one group of people on the conditions stated in the above passages, and another group of people for absolutely no reason found within them or for any conditions enjoined upon them.

4. These four passages above plus a large number of other passages that also qualify God's love explicitly tell us who precisely God loves with his filial covenant of love; yet, one would be very hard pressed to find any passages in scripture that explicitly teaches that God loves all men w/o exception no matter what their love, obedience or their personal, spiritual relationship to God might look like.

5. We also won't find any passage in scripture wherein any preacher or teacher of the Gospel ever tells unbelievers that God love them.

The devil is always found in these kinds of pesky details; and in this case he's been crushed by the Way, the Life and the Truth who teaches us exactly who God loves and under what conditions!

 

[Rufus]

Now that I have been the only one to be so bold, brassy and audacious to actually define the term "unconditional" out of two different dictionaries, I will now present four biblical passages wherein Jesus himself had a very different view of the nature of God's love than most professing Christians have. Here they are in all their glory:

John 10:17
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life — only to take it up again.
NIV

John 14:21
21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
NIV

John 15:10
10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.
NIV

John 16:27
27 No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.
NIV

Facts:

1. Jesus in all the above texts qualified the extent of God's love by limiting the objects of that love to those who love and/or obey God's will. Jesus himself was the object of his Father's love on the condition of his obedience to Him.

2. If God's love is unconditional in nature, then the reason for His love to anyone cannot be found its object. The texts would have to say something along the lines of "God loves you because He is love". The reason or condition(s) for God loving anyone would have to be found only within God himself! But that clearly is not the case with any of the texts above.

3. If God's love is unconditional in nature, then what Jesus taught is absolutely meaningless, redundant and contradictory. How could it be possible for a righteous, holy and good God to love one group of people on the conditions stated in the above passages, and another group of people for absolutely no reason found within them or for any conditions enjoined upon them.

4. These four passages above plus a large number of other passages that also qualify God's love explicitly tell us who precisely God loves with his filial covenant of love; yet, one would be very hard pressed to find any passages in scripture that explicitly teaches that God loves all men w/o exception no matter what their love, obedience or their personal, spiritual relationship to God might look like.

5. We also won't find any passage in scripture wherein any preacher or teacher of the Gospel ever tells unbelievers that God love them.

The devil is always found in these kinds of pesky details; and in this case he's been crushed by the Way, the Life and the Truth who teaches us exactly who God loves and under what conditions!

 

[homwardbound]

Here you are talking about your salvation experience when the topic in this thread is God's supposed unconditional love. We should really try to stick to the narrow topic at hand -- which is the true nature of God's love. Do you know any passage in Scripture that explicitly (operative term here!) teaches that God loves each and every person in the world w/o exception?

Authorized (King James) Version
1 John 1-2

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

God gave this by Son, God did not ask anyone to give it, God gave it by God's Love for us all. There was no condition for his love and mercy to do that, but Sin that began at the first Adam and ended at the last Adam Jesus the Christ risen

Authorized (King James) Version

1 John 2:12

12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.


Authorized (King James) Version

1 John 2:27

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

it, seems you have not yet seen this anointing, I am talking of all that have seen it, got it and testify to it's truth, those that have received, are relieved, from stress as a gift, not of works ever not of people only God's done work of Son for us all to rest in, he is risen, not just for me. Hebrews 4:9-13


Authorized (King James) Version

John 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

That above is done once for everyone Hebrews 10:10, 2 Cor 5:17-20
John 19:30
Sin issue dealt with by Son. Next!!!!!!! New life to get given from Daddy, PaPa, bear, Father, the risen Son by God as in John 4:23-24
Love you Rufus, the same as God loves us all. There is no work of human flesh to get approved in. Just belief that does not quit. God's full love and mercy demonstrated by Son' done work, For anyone to get and be new and be born again from Father above, thank you. It is for us all
Have a great day, you know truth time to accept or reject, thank you
God knows us all, and whether one believes God or not, it is not a competition, it is new life offered everyone to believe God our not, thanks

 

[Rufus]

Now that I have been the only one to be so bold, brassy and audacious to actually define the term "unconditional" out of two different dictionaries, I will now present four biblical passages wherein Jesus himself had a very different view of the nature of God's love than most professing Christians have. Here they are in all their glory:

John 10:17
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life — only to take it up again.
NIV

John 14:21
21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
NIV

John 15:10
10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.
NIV

John 16:27
27 No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.
NIV

Facts:

1. Jesus in all the above texts qualified the extent of God's love by limiting the objects of that love to those who love and/or obey God's will. Jesus himself was the object of his Father's love on the condition of his obedience to Him.

2. If God's love is unconditional in nature, then the reason for His love to anyone cannot be found its object. The texts would have to say something along the lines of "God loves you because He is love". The reason or condition(s) for God loving anyone would have to be found only within God himself! But that clearly is not the case with any of the texts above.

3. If God's love is unconditional in nature, then what Jesus taught is absolutely meaningless, redundant and contradictory. How could it be possible for a righteous, holy and good God to love one group of people on the conditions stated in the above passages, and another group of people for absolutely no reason found within them or for any conditions enjoined upon them.

4. These four passages above plus a large number of other passages that also qualify God's love explicitly tell us who precisely God loves with his filial covenant of love; yet, one would be very hard pressed to find any passages in scripture that explicitly teaches that God loves all men w/o exception no matter what their love, obedience or their personal, spiritual relationship to God might look like.

5. We also won't find any passage in scripture wherein any preacher or teacher of the Gospel ever tells unbelievers that God love them.

The devil is always found in these kinds of pesky details; and in this case he's been crushed by the Way, the Life and the Truth who teaches us exactly who God loves and under what conditions!

 

[Rufus]

Authorized (King James) Version
1 John 1-2

2 My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous: 2 and he is the propitiation for our sins: and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world.

God gave this by Son, God did not ask anyone to give it, God gave it by God's Love for us all. There was no condition for his love and mercy to do that, but Sin that began at the first Adam and ended at the last Adam Jesus the Christ risen

Authorized (King James) Version

1 John 2:12

12 I write unto you, little children, because your sins are forgiven you for his name’s sake.


Authorized (King James) Version

1 John 2:27

27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

it, seems you have not yet seen this anointing, I am talking of all that have seen it, got it and testify to it's truth, those that have received, are relieved, from stress as a gift, not of works ever not of people only God's done work of Son for us all to rest in, he is risen, not just for me. Hebrews 4:9-13


Authorized (King James) Version

John 1:29

29 The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

That above is done once for everyone Hebrews 10:10, 2 Cor 5:17-20
John 19:30
Sin issue dealt with by Son. Next!!!!!!! New life to get given from Daddy, PaPa, bear, Father, the risen Son by God as in John 4:23-24
Love you Rufus, the same as God loves us all. There is no work of human flesh to get approved in. Just belief that does not quit. God's full love and mercy demonstrated by Son' done work, For anyone to get and be new and be born again from Father above, thank you. It is for us all
Have a great day, you know truth time to accept or reject, thank you
God knows us all, and whether one believes God or not, it is not a competition, it is new life offered everyone to believe God our not, thanks

1Jn 1:1-2 you carelessly and irresponsibly quote out of context. You fail to notice that John explicitly excluded his messianic Jewish audience from the "whole world" with that little 3-letter word "but" that denotes a distinction between two groups of people. Therefore, the phrase "whole world" is limited to the Gentiles and cannot mean all Jews and all Gentiles w/o exception. Moreover, the topic of the passage is not God's love per se but Christ's atoning work. Ditto for Jn 1:29.

 

[GWH]

Several NT Scriptural pearls teach divine omnilove:
John 3:16, 1John 4:7-12, Rom. 5:8, Matt. 5:44&48, Gal. 5:6&14, Eph. 3:17b-19, Eph. 5:2, 1Tim. 2:3-4, Tit. 2:11, Ezek. 33:11.

 

[Rufus]

Several NT Scriptural pearls teach divine omnilove:
John 3:16, 1John 4:7-12, Rom. 5:8, Matt. 5:44&48, Gal. 5:6&14, Eph. 3:17b-19, Eph. 5:2, 1Tim. 2:3-4, Tit. 2:11, Ezek. 33:11.

Only by the interpretive method of eisegesis! One MUST read unconditional love into each and every one of those texts. And this practice of adding to God's Word is strictly forbidden by scripture. I'll take Jesus' explicit teaching on love any time and all the time over your abuse of scripture.

 

[homwardbound]

Now that I have been the only one to be so bold, brassy and audacious to actually define the term "unconditional" out of two different dictionaries, I will now present four biblical passages wherein Jesus himself had a very different view of the nature of God's love than most professing Christians have. Here they are in all their glory:

John 10:17
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life — only to take it up again.
NIV

John 14:21
21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
NIV

John 15:10
10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.
NIV

John 16:27
27 No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.
NIV

Facts:

1. Jesus in all the above texts qualified the extent of God's love by limiting the objects of that love to those who love and/or obey God's will. Jesus himself was the object of his Father's love on the condition of his obedience to Him.

2. If God's love is unconditional in nature, then the reason for His love to anyone cannot be found its object. The texts would have to say something along the lines of "God loves you because He is love". The reason or condition(s) for God loving anyone would have to be found only within God himself! But that clearly is not the case with any of the texts above.

3. If God's love is unconditional in nature, then what Jesus taught is absolutely meaningless, redundant and contradictory. How could it be possible for a righteous, holy and good God to love one group of people on the conditions stated in the above passages, and another group of people for absolutely no reason found within them or for any conditions enjoined upon them.

4. These four passages above plus a large number of other passages that also qualify God's love explicitly tell us who precisely God loves with his filial covenant of love; yet, one would be very hard pressed to find any passages in scripture that explicitly teaches that God loves all men w/o exception no matter what their love, obedience or their personal, spiritual relationship to God might look like.

5. We also won't find any passage in scripture wherein any preacher or teacher of the Gospel ever tells unbelievers that God love them.

The devil is always found in these kinds of pesky details; and in this case he's been crushed by the Way, the Life and the Truth who teaches us exactly who God loves and under what conditions!

I can only disagree to agree, thank you
God is full love and Son did that full Love to free us from under Law and love all as God does just love us all. Not on a condition or conditions as religion does still, conditional
However believe as you want and please continue in the work to see, no one else is good enough, I am certainly not, I have let go to see Love surpasses all Law. Thanks Jesus fufilled all the Law and Prophets first Matthew 5:17, John 19:30, John 1:29. Is risen on the third day for the new Law Hebrews 7:11-12 to be new in us each in love and mercy to all too, thank you, love you

 

[homwardbound]

1Jn 1:1-2 you carelessly and irresponsibly quote out of context. You fail to notice that John explicitly excluded his messianic Jewish audience from the "whole world" with that little 3-letter word "but" that denotes a distinction between two groups of people. Therefore, the phrase "whole world" is limited to the Gentiles and cannot mean all Jews and all Gentiles w/o exception. Moreover, the topic of the passage is not God's love per se but Christ's atoning work. Ditto for Jn 1:29.

Straining out Gnats? Look out, see Mercy over sacrifice please, okay you be you, I be me and still love you anyways, since Daddy, PaPa, Father loved me first too

 

[studier]

Regarding humans there is no absolute objectivity;
dictionaries are opinions about common usage.

Dictionaries can be quite meaningful especially when we can pick & choose definitions. For example our friend (cc: @Rufus ) says he has been bold, brassy and audacious:

From M-W & Oxford Languages:

bold: impudent, presumptuous

brassy: sounding like a brass musical instrument; harsh and loud. tastelessly showy or loud in appearance or manner (typically used of a woman).

audacious: showing an impudent lack of respect.


Re: Love, it seems this is a good topic to be harmonized. His Word most certainly shows God's love for all men without condition, and it shows God's love with condition.

When His Word tells us God is Love we should probably sit back and consider that this means we likely understand Love about as well as we understand God.

 

[GWH]

Dictionaries can be quite meaningful especially when we can pick & choose definitions. For example our friend (cc: @Rufus ) says he has been bold, brassy and audacious:

From M-W & Oxford Languages:

bold: impudent, presumptuous

brassy: sounding like a brass musical instrument; harsh and loud. tastelessly showy or loud in appearance or manner (typically used of a woman).

audacious: showing an impudent lack of respect.


Re: Love, it seems this is a good topic to be harmonized. His Word most certainly shows God's love for all men without condition, and it shows God's love with condition.

When His Word tells us God is Love we should probably sit back and consider that this means we likely understand Love about as well as we understand God.

I am comfortable with the harmonization that God's love is omni and unconditional,
but His forgiveness is conditional upon faith, which is why Jesus preached repentance and seeking,
because it provides a logical basis for viewing sinners as self-condemned and God as right
to attain justice in hell before sinful souls are destroyed.

 

[Rufus]

Straining out Gnats? Look out, see Mercy over sacrifice please, okay you be you, I be me and still love you anyways, since Daddy, PaPa, Father loved me first too

So...in your world the eisegetical method of interpretation is A-OK and Kool, even though scripture explicitly forbids adding our words into any text of scripture; but when I exegete a passage and point out where and how you have gone off the interpretive rails, I'm the one "Straining our Gnats"?

 

[Rufus]

I am comfortable with the harmonization that God's love is omni and unconditional,
but His forgiveness is conditional upon faith, which is why Jesus preached repentance and seeking,
because it provides a logical basis for viewing sinners as self-condemned and God as right
to attain justice in hell before sinful souls are destroyed.

In other words, Jesus Christ is a liar! When he spoke of the nature of God's love in very plain, clear, precise terms He didn't know of what he spoke? So...since Jesus in your world is a liar (which you clearly imply) then who or what in scripture is the only truth-teller: Could it be your real father -- the one Adam had?

 

[studier]

I am comfortable with the harmonization that God's love is omni and unconditional,
but His forgiveness is conditional upon faith, which is why Jesus preached repentance and seeking,
because it provides a logical basis for viewing sinners as self-condemned and God as right
to attain justice in hell before sinful souls are destroyed.

Then please explain at minimum the verses that @Rufus posted that clearly seem to assert a condition on God's love.

 

[GWH]

Then please explain at minimum the verses that @Rufus posted that clearly seem to assert a condition on God's love.

I just did by saying "the harmonization is that God's love is omni and unconditional,
but His forgiveness is conditional upon faith, which is why Jesus preached repentance and seeking,
because it provides a logical basis for viewing sinners as self-condemned and God as right
to attain justice in hell before sinful souls are destroyed."