Unconditional love verses from God to us the people

[Rufus]

On the contrary, it is you who does not understand God's grace enables volition, which is free to choose either God or Satan.

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth again! Since when did you come to believe in the efficacy of God's saving grace?

And I acknowledged that Jesus, in those four Johannine passages, didn't mention conditional forgiveness based on faith by saying that "the harmonization [of those passages with the pearls about omnilove] is that God's love is unconditional,
but His forgiveness is conditional upon faith, which is why Jesus preached repentance and seeking..."

The four Johannine passages, AGAIN, have nothing to do with faith or forgiveness. Jesus was giving his disciple deep, profound insights into God's love. We both know this which is why you cannot and will not "interact" (to borrow Studier's term) with any of the four passages. Jesus clearly taught in those passages that God's love was conditioned on the state of man's heart -- or to be even more specific whether a man loves God with all his heart, mind, soul and strength and on the obedience (faithfulness) that springs forth from that love.

Regarding your question: God loves evil-doers but not evil, which you would realize if your mind was open to the teaching
of Paul in Romans:

First, if God loves both his saints and the sinners of the world alike, then what is the point to Jesus' teaching in the four Johannine texts?

Then why didn't Jesus pray for the "evil-doers" that He and his Father love so much in Jn 17:9?

And how could He or his Father love "evil-doers" when it is these very evil doers that neither the Father or the Son ever knew from all eternity (Mat 7:23; 1Cor 8:3))!? These evil-doers stand in sharp contrast to God's chosen sheep who are personally, intimately and covenantally known by God -- even by name (John 10)!

And since you say that God does not love evil, then how can he love sinners who ARE innately evil (Gen 6:5; 8:21; Job 15:16; Jer 17:9; Mat 7:11; Mk 10:18)? Both sinful acts (Prov 11:1) and the perverse hearts of sinners which is the fountainhead of all evil (Prov 11:20) are equally as abominable to the Lord! To deny this fact would be tantamount to you admitting that God hates neither sin (v.1) or the sinner (v.20), since the same exact Hebrew term that is rendered "abomination" is used in both verses.

All your Roman passages do not address the nature of God's love. Every single one of them are non sequiturs. So...get busy and address the four specific and explicit Johannine passages wherein Jesus does address the nature of God's love. Why are you avoiding those four passages and throw up to us a bunch irrelevant passages that do not address this specific topic?

 

[GWH]

Here are the verses put forth to you. Looking at each one of them, how is it that you see only God's unconditional love?

John 10:17
17 The reason my Father loves me is that I lay down my life — only to take it up again.
NIV

John 14:21
21 Whoever has my commands and obeys them, he is the one who loves me. He who loves me will be loved by my Father, and I too will love him and show myself to him."
NIV

John 15:10
10 If you obey my commands, you will remain in my love, just as I have obeyed my Father's commands and remain in his love.
NIV

John 16:27
27 No, the Father himself loves you because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God.
NIV

John 10:17 - I see Jesus laying down his life for all sinners per Romans 5:6-8.

 

[GWH]

You're talking out of both sides of your mouth again! Since when did you come to believe in the efficacy of God's saving grace?

The four Johannine passages, AGAIN, have nothing to do with faith or forgiveness. Jesus was giving his disciple deep, profound insights into God's love. We both know this which is why you cannot and will not "interact" (to borrow Studier's term) with any of the four passages. Jesus clearly taught in those passages that God's love was conditioned on the state of man's heart -- or to be even more specific whether a man loves God with all his heart, mind, soul and strength and on the obedience (faithfulness) that springs forth from that love.

First, if God loves both his saints and the sinners of the world alike, then what is the point to Jesus' teaching in the four Johannine texts?

Then why didn't Jesus pray for the "evil-doers" that He and his Father love so much in Jn 17:9?

And how could He or his Father love "evil-doers" when it is these very evil doers that neither the Father or the Son ever knew from all eternity (Mat 7:23; 1Cor 8:3))!? These evil-doers stand in sharp contrast to God's chosen sheep who are personally, intimately and covenantally known by God -- even by name (John 10)!

And since you say that God does not love evil, then how can he love sinners who ARE innately evil (Gen 6:5; 8:21; Job 15:16; Jer 17:9; Mat 7:11; Mk 10:18)? Both sinful acts (Prov 11:1) and the perverse hearts of sinners which is the fountainhead of all evil (Prov 11:20) are equally as abominable to the Lord! To deny this fact would be tantamount to you admitting that God hates neither sin (v.1) or the sinner (v.20), since the same exact Hebrew term that is rendered "abomination" is used in both verses.

All your Roman passages do not address the nature of God's love. Every single one of them are non sequiturs. So...get busy and address the four specific and explicit Johannine passages wherein Jesus does address the nature of God's love. Why are you avoiding those four passages and throw up to us a bunch irrelevant passages that do not address this specific topic?

I have always said God enables everyone to accept His grace--or not.

Re the passages in John, see my post to studier.

God can love sinners because He is more loving than you,
although Jesus commanded that you do the same in Matt. 5:44 & 48.

Re Romans, address your complaints to Paul.

 

[GWH]

John 10:17 - I see Jesus laying down his life for all sinners per Romans 5:6-8.

John 14:21 teaches that saving faith is manifested by loving works, as indicated by Eph. 2:8-10 & Gal. 5:22-23.

John 15:10 teaches the need for perseverance, along with 15 other Scriptures.

John 16:27 teaches that God's love is conditional, which contradicts Scripture saying otherwise,
so harmonization is needed.

 

[NeutralZone]

Ephesians 2:8-9
Eph 5:25
Titus 2:11
John 3:16
John 14:21
John 15:12
John 15:13
Romans 5:8
Romans 11:6
Romans 11:32
1 Cor 13:7
1 Cor 13:13
2 Cor 12:9
1 Peter 5:10
1Peter 4:8
1John 3:1
1John 3:16
1John 4:8
1John 4:16
1John 4:18
Col 3:14
Jeremiah 31:3

I looked through your posted scriptures and could not find any that says God's love is unconditional, homwardbound.

Maybe I missed something. Please quote at least one verse of scripture that indicates God's love is conditional, based upon the context.

 

[GWH]

I looked through your posted scriptures and could not find any that says God's love is unconditional, homwardbound.

Maybe I missed something. Please quote at least one verse of scripture that indicates God's love is conditional, based upon the context.

John 3:16, Romans 5:6-8, Titus 2:11 and many other Scriptures indicate that God loves all sinners whether or not they reflect His love,
however many Scriptures teach that God's forgiveness is conditional upon repentance or reflecting His love.

 

[studier]

John 10:17 - I see Jesus laying down his life for all sinners per Romans 5:6-8.

ESV John 10:14-18 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge/commandment/mandate I have received from my Father."

FWIW, IMO you're being evasive in not dealing with the specific topic of love being unconditional vs. conditional.

Jesus is clearly saying there is a cause for this love from the Father. He's been commanded by our Father to do something specific. By this commandment He has authority to do something specific. Our Father desires something specific. Jesus will willingly do this specific will of our Father and for this reason our Father loves Him.

IMO this is a conditional aspect of our Father's love, and it is repeated in other Scriptures pertinent to us and in essence to all men in that God has a specific aspect of His love for willingly faithful obedience of His creation and our Lord showed us how this applied also to Him, exemplifying it for us.

There may be a better way to explain this than by my wording 'conditional & specific aspect' but the language of "cause" (reason & cause wording in the verse) is clear, and IMO needs to be taken into account when discussing God's love.

 

[Magenta]

ESV John 10:14-18 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge/commandment/mandate I have received from my Father."

John 10 verses 14-16 ~ I am the good shepherd. I know My sheep and My sheep know Me, just as the Father knows Me and I know the Father. And I lay down My life for the sheep. I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them in as well, and they will listen to My voice. Then there will be one flock and one shepherd.

 

[Rufus]

I have always said God enables everyone to accept His grace--or not.

Re the passages in John, see my post to studier.

God can love sinners because He is more loving than you,
although Jesus commanded that you do the same in Matt. 5:44 & 48.

Re Romans, address your complaints to Paul.

ESV John 10:14-18 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge/commandment/mandate I have received from my Father."

FWIW, IMO you're being evasive in not dealing with the specific topic of love being unconditional vs. conditional.

Jesus is clearly saying there is a cause for this love from the Father. He's been commanded by our Father to do something specific. By this commandment He has authority to do something specific. Our Father desires something specific. Jesus will willingly do this specific will of our Father and for this reason our Father loves Him.

IMO this is a conditional aspect of our Father's love, and it is repeated in other Scriptures pertinent to us and in essence to all men in that God has a specific aspect of His love for willingly faithful obedience of His creation and our Lord showed us how this applied also to Him, exemplifying it for us.

There may be a better way to explain this than by my wording 'conditional & specific aspect' but the language of "cause" (reason & cause wording in the verse) is clear, and IMO needs to be taken into account when discussing God's love.

First to Studier:

Of course, GWH is evasive. It appears that God has graciously "enabled" him to not believe the passage. (After all, GWH essentially said that God gives grace to all w/o exception to believe or NOT believe!) For this reason, he cannot honestly address any of the four passages straight up and head on. In fact, the best GWH can do is what he selectively sees in the text -- Christ laying down his life for the sheep. But what he cannot see is that this incomprehensible act of faithful, loyal obedience of the Son -- even unto death -- is the cause (as you have rightfully said) behind His own Father's love! This to me is a mind-boggling passage; for God does not love even his one and only begotten Son unconditionally! How much more then must this be true of sinners, as the other three passages teach!?

Jesus is the Last Adam who was sent to this dark, forlorn, depraved world to do everything the first Adam did not do. Jesus, then, is God's Realized Eschatology! The Last Adam is God's Spiritual Ideal that He always intended for all mankind.

So, Mr. GWH, God [ineffectually] "enables" people to believe ("accept His grace" and others not to believe (accept His grace)? Or does God effectually enable all people to believe or not believe? Either God is talking out of both sides of his mouth or you are! But I know who I am going to believe! I'm going with my Lord and Savior; for all mere mortals are by nature liars!

Also, God's love, grace, actions, mercy, compassion, etc. are not dependent on any of his creatures. The reason why God's love is conditional has nothing to do with sinners who have no love of God within them. God's love is necessarily limited by His own character, which includes his love, since he CANNOT love sin or anyone whose heart is the fountainhead of all evil (again, see Prov 11:1, 20 respectively). Agape love has a very strong moral component to it! As such, God can do NO wrong (Rom 13:10), such as loving whatever IS EVIL! And man is clearly evil! There is no good thing in man's "flesh" (evil nature)!

 

[GWH]

ESV John 10:14-18 I am the good shepherd. I know my own and my own know me, 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father; and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 And I have other sheep that are not of this fold. I must bring them also, and they will listen to my voice. So there will be one flock, one shepherd. 17 For this reason the Father loves me, because I lay down my life that I may take it up again. 18 No one takes it from me, but I lay it down of my own accord. I have authority to lay it down, and I have authority to take it up again. This charge/commandment/mandate I have received from my Father."

FWIW, IMO you're being evasive in not dealing with the specific topic of love being unconditional vs. conditional.

Jesus is clearly saying there is a cause for this love from the Father. He's been commanded by our Father to do something specific. By this commandment He has authority to do something specific. Our Father desires something specific. Jesus will willingly do this specific will of our Father and for this reason our Father loves Him.

IMO this is a conditional aspect of our Father's love, and it is repeated in other Scriptures pertinent to us and in essence to all men in that God has a specific aspect of His love for willingly faithful obedience of His creation and our Lord showed us how this applied also to Him, exemplifying it for us.

There may be a better way to explain this than by my wording 'conditional & specific aspect' but the language of "cause" (reason & cause wording in the verse) is clear, and IMO needs to be taken into account when discussing God's love.

Oh, you are saying that God the Father's love for God the Son is conditional upon Jesus doing His Father's will?!

Okay, I agree the verse says that. I thought you were talking about God's love for sinners.

I guess you saw my comments regarding the rest?:

John 14:21 teaches that saving faith is manifested by loving works, as indicated by Eph. 2:8-10 & Gal. 5:22-23.

John 15:10 teaches the need for perseverance, along with 15 other Scriptures.

John 16:27 teaches that God's love is conditional, which contradicts Scripture saying otherwise,
so harmonization is needed (which I already offered).

 

[homwardbound]

I would "thank you", except for the fact that you have given me no reason to! First, you couldn't define "unconditional". And then you just shrugged off the four Johnanaine passages I quoted out of the Gospel of John; for you didn't even attempt to reconcile your ill-conceived theory with Jesus' teachings in those passages. And to show you just how impoverished you are in terms of actual bible knowledge (as opposed to human traditions), I would like to ask one more question with respect to Jn 16:20; 17:9, which is: Did Jesus use the term "world" in the distributive sense to mean all mankind w/o exception in these two passages?

For all that choose to believe God sincerely

As each person knows personally if they personally believe God or not. Each person makes the only choice left after Christ reconciled everyone as reconciled, forgiven first
2 Cor 5:17-20
Hebrews 10:10 After the willing death of Son, got done once for us all, being reconciled as forgiven to God Father, in Son's home time done work once for everyone. All that tis left is:
To choose to believe God or not consciously.
As you already know in your own Heart, as well as everyone else also
For all will know and all will bow, whether have chosen to believe God or have chosen not to believe.At that time there will be no excuse for anyone. Time to choose, thank you and do s0o consciously

 

[studier]

Oh, you are saying that God the Father's love for God the Son is conditional upon Jesus doing His Father's will?!

Okay, I agree the verse says that. I thought you were talking about God's love for sinners.

I guess you saw my comments regarding the rest?:

John 14:21 teaches that saving faith is manifested by loving works, as indicated by Eph. 2:8-10 & Gal. 5:22-23.

John 15:10 teaches the need for perseverance, along with 15 other Scriptures.

John 16:27 teaches that God's love is conditional, which contradicts Scripture saying otherwise,
so harmonization is needed (which I already offered).

Thanks for hanging in and coming around. I thought I was being clear from the outset.

John14:21 per my read follows what Jesus said in John10 about the conditional aspect of our Father's love for Him because of our Lord's willingly faithful obedience to our Father.

The language may be odd to us in our time but in ancient times to obey a king was to love the king and vice versa. Thus, what Jesus says in John14:21 was quite normal to their ears and was used in the OC.

So, He essentially says, if you obey Me then you love (are loving) Me, which was the same thing He was saying about His relationship with our Father's love. So, John14:21 is the same in that our Father's love for us - that specific aspect of His love I mentioned before - is conditioned upon our willingly faithful obedience to our Lord.

So, once again, this aspect of God's love for us is conditional and based upon our [faithful] obedience to our Lord and thus to Him.

Jesus actually says in those verses that this obedience will result in not only love but a special manifestation of Himself to those loving/obeying Him. So, the conditional love came with special benefits, which IMO is something to consider when wrestling with this specific aspect of love being discussed.

Just a thought, but we've both alluded to His perfect essence and all His attributes working perfectly together, a concept IMO difficult for us to comprehend sufficiently. If we are in willing, faithful obedience to Him, IOW loving Him, then in essence He's free to love us without His righteousness and justice (for example) having to deal with us or having to set those attributes aside for a time to deal with us in mercy, etc. And, as His children, He's free from having to discipline us (albeit in love), and can just be laser-focused (so to speak) in pure and free love for us. Maybe you can do better, but you can see some of the difficulty in trying to explain from a human point of view how perfect essence may function. It's back to what I said earlier about our trying to more fully understand God who is love, so understanding perfect love is difficult to say the least.

Once again, I see conditional love on John14:21 as I did in John10:17.

 

[homwardbound]

I looked through your posted scriptures and could not find any that says God's love is unconditional, homwardbound.

Maybe I missed something. Please quote at least one verse of scripture that indicates God's love is conditional, based upon the context.

I hope you take the time to read this entire post and ask God for truth, thank you

I never once said God's Love is Conditional as you just asked above
You might have meant show one verse that says "Unconditional Love"
Well, lets ask this:
Why, Did Jesus go to that cross willingly, without any fight back? Why did he not come down from that cross, when he was being berated by those that hung him on it?
What did that alone do? by his going, there willingly and not fight back? Even asked Father, his Father for any other way to go, than the cross, before taken away in the Garden of Gethsemane? I mean he even stopped Peter from harming Malchus from taking him away. What, Why?
Jesus said, nevertheless, not my will Father, your will. Total submission to God. The God of Psalm 82. The exact representation of Love and mercy for us all is God, to me at least. As it be Father that reveals to who Daddy, PaPa, Father decides to reveal this truth to them, that do not quit or do not deny God, even if feel like it going through troubles either.
God loves me and you, along with everyone else. 1 John 2:1-2, 12, 27 Unconditional of any work(s) I do or not do, or anyone else either. God just loves us all. Whoever does not get this truth in them, will not ever begin new in love and mercy for them, or will they, have you? Love you from God in through Son who reconciled everyone as forgiven in his one time willing death first, thank you. (2 Cor 5:176-20) Father only patiently waiting, ever since the cross, done one time for us all (Hebrews 10:10) for everyone to choose consciously to believe God or not
Consciously so! And then one will grow new and mature in this truth and love all in the same mercy and truth given them by Son first (1 John 4:18-19). This has been my learning walk, not quitting belief to God since age 12, I am 68 now. God loves us all y'all thank you. And oh boy, I have made many a mistakes along the way, and God has never left me, or you or anyone else, even though we all have still sinned still, have you completely quit? 2 Cor 10:5
Religion puts on people guilt and then gets people to behave, at least act like it and this leaves guilt and pride in people as yourself is in, and people can't quit, because no one but Son could quit sin, that you are desperately wanting to quit, yet can't, as there are many others like you too, that do not see 2 Cor 12:7-10. God's grace is sufficient to stand in belief and see by God alone you are made perfect alone in Son's done work alone. Col 1:21-23, What?
Time to read, re-read Romans Chapters 2-5, still don't get, 6-8. Maybe Galatians? God did it for us the people, everyone, and has proven even the first Chosen one's could not do it perfectly in the First Testament, known as the Old, when it is to me the first. before the revealing of truth given through Son as risen where Father gives new life for all that seek sincerely John 4:23-24
Love from God to us all, started and is sorted out in risen Son for me at least, now others as well that sincerely believe God too see and on their way to see this freedom given them to do God's righteousness, working through them in his love and mercy for them first
That be what is Unconditional Love from God is

 

[homwardbound]

So, once again, this aspect of God's love for us is conditional and based upon our [faithful] obedience to our Lord and thus to Him.

This be what I see! God did it for us all by Son for us, in his one time death willingly to first reconcile everyone as forgiven first. (2 Cor. 5:17-20)
Before any new life could ever get given anyone. The Holy Spirit of God the Father living in us, now as compared to the Old (First) Testament, God, (The Holy Spirit)only visited, did not live in anyone then. This is for us all now, those that choose to believe God in Son as risen for them get given the new life offered in God's spirit and Truth. it begins at one's free choice to believe God or not in Son as risen where the new life offered is at, as in John 10:10 states, the last part of that verse, not the first part. The first part is to me, emotions (Thief) leading people into stress, and anger and then sin and this ends up harming others as well as self, as all have done growing up first in the flesh nature, first birth of man and woman having sex
Born again from God Father is a gift given to all that choose to believe and not move away, Col 1:21-23 I do not have to do it, as I had to do it, when I was under Law, I had to and could not do it, thank g God I went through it now.
Now delivered from under Law to Uphold Law (Romans 3:31) as good and perfect, seeing, I need Father and Son to lead not me anymore, or any other flesh person over me. 1 John 2:27, read it from verse 1 please. I am freed in this love and mercy given me, to give to all and for all, you and all others that choose too, thank you
Believe God in risen Son and be revealed truth over error, that takes a while to see, and anyone will if do not quit belief to God Father in risen Son fro them too, love to all

 

[NeutralZone]

I hope you take the time to read this entire post and ask God for truth, thank you

I never once said God's Love is Conditional as you just asked above

Really? That what you stated in the title of your thread:

"Unconditional love verses from God to us the people"

 

[GWH]

Thanks for hanging in and coming around. I thought I was being clear from the outset.

John14:21 per my read follows what Jesus said in John10 about the conditional aspect of our Father's love for Him because of our Lord's willingly faithful obedience to our Father.

The language may be odd to us in our time but in ancient times to obey a king was to love the king and vice versa. Thus, what Jesus says in John14:21 was quite normal to their ears and was used in the OC.

So, He essentially says, if you obey Me then you love (are loving) Me, which was the same thing He was saying about His relationship with our Father's love. So, John14:21 is the same in that our Father's love for us - that specific aspect of His love I mentioned before - is conditioned upon our willingly faithful obedience to our Lord.

So, once again, this aspect of God's love for us is conditional and based upon our [faithful] obedience to our Lord and thus to Him.

Jesus actually says in those verses that this obedience will result in not only love but a special manifestation of Himself to those loving/obeying Him. So, the conditional love came with special benefits, which IMO is something to consider when wrestling with this specific aspect of love being discussed.

Just a thought, but we've both alluded to His perfect essence and all His attributes working perfectly together, a concept IMO difficult for us to comprehend sufficiently. If we are in willing, faithful obedience to Him, IOW loving Him, then in essence He's free to love us without His righteousness and justice (for example) having to deal with us or having to set those attributes aside for a time to deal with us in mercy, etc. And, as His children, He's free from having to discipline us (albeit in love), and can just be laser-focused (so to speak) in pure and free love for us. Maybe you can do better, but you can see some of the difficulty in trying to explain from a human point of view how perfect essence may function. It's back to what I said earlier about our trying to more fully understand God who is love, so understanding perfect love is difficult to say the least.

Once again, I see conditional love on John14:21 as I did in John10:17.

I understand that John uses "love" where Paul prefers "faith", but you know me--I like both/and.

However, Paul teaches that God's love for sinners/atheists is unconditional,
but they will not be forgiven/saved unless they satisfy the condition of faith,
which in John's preferred terminology I state as reflecting God's love.
BTW, the synoptics speak of both belief/repentance and love for God and fellow humans.

 

[Rufus]

Oh, you are saying that God the Father's love for God the Son is conditional upon Jesus doing His Father's will?!

Okay, I agree the verse says that. I thought you were talking about God's love for sinners.

I guess you saw my comments regarding the rest?:

John 14:21 teaches that saving faith is manifested by loving works, as indicated by Eph. 2:8-10 & Gal. 5:22-23.

John 15:10 teaches the need for perseverance, along with 15 other Scriptures.

John 16:27 teaches that God's love is conditional, which contradicts Scripture saying otherwise,
so harmonization is needed (which I already offered).

So if the Last Adam, who is the Federal Head of all God's chosen people, was loved on the condition of his perfect, faithful, loyal obedience, and if this Last Adam is also God-incarnate -- the God-MAN, then how does the truth that you just conceded not apply to all mankind? Since the Father could not even love his own Son unconditionally, then why would anyone think that the immutable character of God would change for sinners?

 

[NeutralZone]

Yes, God's love is unconditional, but His forgiveness is conditional upon repentance.

Your comment is contradictory, GWH. When love is unconditional, it doesn't require repentance.

 

[Rufus]

I understand that John uses "love" where Paul prefers "faith", but you know me--I like both/and.

However, Paul teaches that God's love for sinners/atheists is unconditional,
but they will not be forgiven/saved unless they satisfy the condition of faith,
which in John's preferred terminology I state as reflecting God's love.
BTW, the synoptics speak of both belief/repentance and love for God and fellow humans.

Prove it with explicit chapter and verses.

And there you go conflating love and forgiveness again! Why are you UNABLE to focus on the subject of God's love, without bringing other subjects to bear upon his love? This dishonest tactic is your attempt to deflect the explicit love verses away. You want to muddy up the water with various aspects of salvation.

 

[NeutralZone]

Dictionaries can be quite meaningful especially when we can pick & choose definitions. For example our friend (cc: @Rufus ) says he has been bold, brassy and audacious:
. . .

Re: Love, it seems this is a good topic to be harmonized. His Word most certainly shows God's love for all men without condition, and it shows God's love with condition.

Actually, studier, throughout scripture, we are reminded that God's love is based on being obedient to him. No such thing as "without condition" aka "unconditional love" from Jehovah/Yahweh the Father is found anywhere in his inspired word, the Bible.