Understanding God’s election

[Genez]

So you reject the witness that sin originates in the heart of man and finds expression through his body?

Where does sin originate in a person?

James 1:13-15

Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”;
for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires
and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

 

[Genez]

This is the thing.

Sophism?

Is not God's word.

God's word teaches the Christian who understands the Spirit of The Word. And when that Spirit tells us eternal fire awaits Satan and his fallen angel army and demons, that's it!

I never said otherwise....

I said that God offered Satan a chance to repent in the BEGINING of the process of his falling.
Not that God is offering Satan the opportunity to repent now.

Its no wonder you fail to grasp what I originally said.
You read it wrong.

It was the process the Lord offered Cain while Cain was working his way to sinning.


So the Lord said to Cain, “Why are you angry? And why has your countenance fallen?
If you do well, will you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin lies at the door.
And its desire is for you, but you should rule over it.”

Genesis 4:6-7

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Where does sin originate in a person?

James 1:13-15

Let no one say when he is tempted, “I am tempted by God”;
for God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does He Himself tempt anyone.
But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires
and enticed. Then, when desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin;
and sin, when it is full-grown, brings forth death.

Longings (lusts) originate in the body, soul and mind

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the vain boasting of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 John 2:15-16​

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But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil imaginations, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man. Matthew 15:18-20​

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How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who are divisive, soulish, having not the Spirit. Jude 1:18-19​

 

[Genez]

Longings (lusts) originate in the body, soul and mind

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the vain boasting of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 John 2:15-16​

​

But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil imaginations, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man. Matthew 15:18-20​

​

How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who are divisive, soulish, having not the Spirit. Jude 1:18-19​

Without a mind a body does not get its way. Does it?

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Without a mind a body does not get its way. Does it?

You failed to address the point that sin originates in the soul

 

[Magenta]

Longings (lusts) originate in the body, soul and mind

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the vain boasting of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 John 2:15-16​

​

But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man. For out of the heart proceed evil imaginations, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies: These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man. Matthew 15:18-20​

​

How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts. These be they who are divisive, soulish, having not the Spirit. Jude 1:18-19​

James 1:14-15; 1 John 2:16 Each one is tempted when by his own evil desires he is lured away and enticed. Then after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. For all that is in the world- the desires of the flesh, the desires of the eyes, and the pride of life- is not from the Father but from the world. .

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Why say it then?

Yea good point

 

[Pilgrimshope]

No one said man doesn't have a choice -- only that God's image-bearers will always choose according to his nature, just as God always chooses according to his. Don't forget: man is a prisoner to his sin nature (Rom 7:23). And...even prisoners have limited freedom to choose how they're going to spend their time, for example, in their in 10 x 8 cell.

Have you ever grown learned over time to make better choices ? Was there ever addictions you faced and later overcame ?

would we make the same choices if we never heard the things jesus said to choose . Is our “ nature “ a slave master ? Ot a tempter ? Can we learn to do good when we used to do bad ? Repentance ?

what use does this serve ?

“Be ye therefore followers of God, as dear children; and walk in love, as Christ also hath loved us, and hath given himself for us an offering and a sacrifice to God for a sweetsmelling savour.

But fornication, and all uncleanness, or covetousness, let it not be once named among you, as becometh saints; neither filthiness, nor foolish talking, nor jesting, which are not convenient: but rather giving of thanks. For this ye know, that no whoremonger, nor unclean person, nor covetous man, who is an idolater, hath any inheritance in the kingdom of Christ and of God. Let no man deceive you with vain words: for because of these things cometh the wrath of God upon the children of disobedience. Be not ye therefore partakers with them.

For ye were sometimes darkness, but now are ye light in the Lord: walk as children of light: (for the fruit of the Spirit is in all goodness and righteousness and truth proving what is acceptable unto the Lord.

And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove them. Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light.

See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is.”
‭‭Ephesians‬ ‭5:1-11, 14-17‬ ‭KJV‬‬

we have to hear and learn accept believe to know

 

[Genez]

You failed to address the point that sin originates in the soul

The desire to sin can originate in the soul....

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the vain boasting of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 John 2:15-16

When a teen age boy, for the first time, gets horny?
The desire/lust comes out of nowhere.
Then, his soul must choose a target to direct his lust of his flesh to.

His soul chooses how to sin.
But, his sin originated in his flesh.

After a while his soul learned to direct his lusts in unrighteousness.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The desire to sin can originate in the soul....

Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. If any man love the world, the love of the Father is not in him. For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the vain boasting of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world. 1 John 2:15-16

When a teen age boy, for the first time, gets horny?
The desire/lust comes out of nowhere.
Then, his soul must choose a target to direct his lust of his flesh to.

His soul chooses how to sin.
But, his sin originated in his flesh.

The lust of the eyes doesn't originate in the flesh. It's a completely mental/soulish thing. Same with vain boasting of life

 

[Genez]

The lust of the eyes doesn't originate in the flesh. It's a completely mental/soulish thing. Same with vain boasting of life

Now that I know you can read what I say?
Deal with the rest I said.....

The first time a boy has sexual desire it began in his flesh.
The soul then needed to learn to direct that desire towards an object.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Now that I know you can read what I say?
Deal with the rest I said.....

The first time a boy has sexual desire it began in his flesh.
The soul then needed to learn to direct that desire towards an object.

The lust of the eyes can be for many things besides sex. You are avoiding the issue that Jesus said what comes out of a man's heart, not his physical body, is what defiles him.

 

[Genez]

The lust of the eyes can be for many things besides sex. You are avoiding the issue that Jesus said what comes out of a man's heart, not his physical body, is what defiles him.

Just work on breaking down one sin at a time.
You can not...


Maybe Paul will convince you...

I know there is nothing good in me, that is, in my flesh. ​

For I want to do good but I can not. Romans 7:18​

​

Paul differentiated between himself (his soul) and his flesh...

Himself (his soul) wanted to do good.
But Paul said his body rendered him unable to.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Just work on breaking down one sin at a time.
You can not...


Maybe Paul will convince you...

I know there is nothing good in me, that is, in my flesh. ​

For I want to do good but I can not. Romans 7:18​

​

Paul differentiated between himself (his soul) and his flesh...

Himself (his soul) wanted to do good.
But Paul said his body rendered him unable to.

That doesn't mean the flesh is evil; it means there is nothing in the flesh that knows how to do good. There is nothing in the soul either that knows how to do good; it can only desire to do so. Only the spirit is able to instruct us how to do good.

 

[Genez]

That doesn't mean the flesh is evil; it means there is nothing in the flesh that knows how to do good. There is nothing in the soul either that knows how to do good; it can only desire to do so. Only the spirit is able to instruct us how to do good.

Paul said its sinful.
He did not use the word, evil.

I know there is nothing good in me, that is, in my flesh.
For I want to do good but I can not. Romans 7:18

Evil is thinking.
Thinking anti-truth.
Replacing truth with a lie.

Just the same.

Paul said his flesh contains NOTHING GOOD.

If you want to call that evil?
Be my guest...

 

[j55]

I have not swamped the OP with a lot of Scripture quotations,
but hopefully you will recall the NT verses which confirm the following …

Man is doubly incapable of believing in Jesus and the Gospel
1 – Because of the disobedience (sin) of Adam and Eve,
all humans are born with an inherited sin nature,
and are bent on sinning instead of following God (Romans 3:9-18).
Having a saving faith is against their very nature!
2 - All unsaved humans are captive prisoners of Satan,
and are bent on doing whatever he wants them to do (2 Timothy 2:26).
Jesus came to set the captives of Satan free (Luke 4:18).
Having a saving faith is against our enemy’s plans for them,
which, of course, is spending eternity with Satan and his demons in hell.
If the God-worshipping Lydia (Acts 16:14) needs God to give her the necessary
faith to believe in Jesus and the Gospel, surely everyone does also!
Similarly, the “anyones” who believe in Jesus in verses such as John 3:16
are the ones whom God has given saving faith!

Father God elects (chooses) and calls whomever He wishes
Jesus says to the elect, “You did not choose Me, but I chose you ….” (John 16:15).
Surely, here is a strong hint that we should investigate this matter further.
Romans chapter 9 is the most famous proponent of God’s election …
“… that the purpose of election might stand, not of works but of Him who calls.
… So then, it is not of him who wills (to be elected, chosen, and called),
nor of him who runs, but of God who shows mercy.” (Romans 9:11-16)
God gives grace to whomever He chooses, but no one deserves grace (unmerited favor)!
God gives justice to whomever He chooses, and everyone deserves justice!
God wishes that all could be saved, but it is not possible because He insists on His justice.
“You love justice and hate evil.” (Hebrews 1”9)
God is not willing that any (of us) should perish, but that all (of us) should repent …
… the “us” referring to His elect, who are promised salvation.
Christians are called to confess and repent of their on-going sins,
and the blood of Jesus will cleanse them of all their unrighteousness (1 John 1:7-9).

The reason why Father God chooses some, but not others
Father God chooses to elect some people for His great pleasure.
He chooses to elect some to demonstrate to the whole world
His great love, mercy, grace, etc. (Romans 9:23).
He chooses to elect some to be companions for His Son throughout eternity (Scriptural?).
Those not chosen are given justice, which sadly is what they deserve.

Those whom Father God gives to Jesus are guaranteed salvation
This is all about the unconditional security of the born-again believer.
Multitudes of NT verses are God’s promises of salvation given to His elect.
Surely, those of us who are born again should be continually praising God and
thanking Him for choosing us … and for the Holy Spirit sanctifying us unto holiness
… and for Jesus interceding for us before Father God in heaven.

Excellent job. Controversial subject. Took courage to tell the truth. Keep plowing brother.

 

[Genez]

That doesn't mean the flesh is evil; it means there is nothing in the flesh that knows how to do good. There is nothing in the soul either that knows how to do good; it can only desire to do so. Only the spirit is able to instruct us how to do good.

The flesh PREVENTS doing good.

Paul's soul wanted to do good.
His flesh would not allow for it to happen.

I know there is nothing good in me, that is, in my flesh.
For I want to do good, but I can not. Romans 7:18

This is not complex.
I am wondering what it is that you wish it said, but does not.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

The flesh PREVENTS doing good.

Paul's soul wanted to do good.
His flesh would not allow for it to happen.

I know there is nothing good in me, that is, in my flesh.
For I want to do good, but I can not. Romans 7:18

This is not complex.
I am wondering what it is that you wish it said, but does not.

Man is unable to do what his soul wants because there is nothing in the flesh, or the soul for that matter, that knows how to do God's will. That has to be revealed by God himself through his word and spirit. Once the heart is circumcised, cleansed and indwelt by the holy spirit man is freed from the condemnation of the law and given the ability to see what God wants and say 'no' to the longings of the flesh. So the flesh can only prevent doing good when man obeys it rather than the spirit of God.

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. Romans 7:24-8:1​

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:3-4​

 

[Genez]

Man is unable to do what his soul wants because there is nothing in the flesh, or the soul for that matter, that knows how to do God's will. That has to be revealed by God himself through his word and spirit. Once the heart is circumcised, cleansed and indwelt by the holy spirit man is freed from the condemnation of the law and given the ability to see what God wants and say 'no' to the longings of the flesh. So the flesh can only prevent doing good when man obeys it rather than the spirit of God.

O wretched man that I am! who shall deliver me from the body of this death? I thank God through Jesus Christ our Lord. So then with the mind I myself serve the law of God; but with the flesh the law of sin. There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus. Romans 7:24-8:1​

For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. Romans 8:3-4​

Paul wrote Romans after his regeneration.
Even though he was born again?
He still had a battle with his flesh...

Like you do.... And, I.

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

Paul wrote Romans after his regeneration.
Even though he was born again?
He still had a battle with his flesh...

Like you do.... And, I.

Yeah, which is what I said