Understanding God’s election

[Rufus]

Well, that was the winning post.

God's favorite nation Israel was elect, chosen, selected from all the nations.

They are the example set for or all of us and we learn that God's grace can be resisted.

The conclusion is even when you become one of the elect, do not resist the Holy Spirit.

Calvin clearly blundered on that tulip point, that is, 'Irresistible grace'.

On the other hand, it is also written:

Rom 9:6b-7
... For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary....
NIV

God's grace cannot be resisted. Name one person Jesus raised from the dead who successfully resisted his power.

 

[HeIsHere]

“He [Christ] came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God” (KJV).

Here the “power” to become sons of God is given only to those who already believe.

Nor can the relationship be achieved by means of any plan that might be devised by the “will of man" meaning >>> man was not in a position to devise the plan, only God could do that.
Rather, it is by means of a spiritual “birth” that such is accomplished and to experience the spiritual birth the call is to believe in the work of Christ Jesus on our behalf.

Every single Calvinist proof text offers no support for this dogma under contextual inspection.

 

[Rufus]

Well, that was the winning post.

God's favorite nation Israel was elect, chosen, selected from all the nations.

They are the example set for or all of us and we learn that God's grace can be resisted.

The conclusion is even when you become one of the elect, do not resist the Holy Spirit.

Calvin clearly blundered on that tulip point, that is, 'Irresistible grace'.

On the other hand, it is also written:

Rom 9:6b-7
... For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary....
NIV

God's grace cannot be resisted. Name one person Jesus raised from the dead who successfully resisted his power.

 

[Rufus]

Well, that was the winning post.

God's favorite nation Israel was elect, chosen, selected from all the nations.

They are the example set for or all of us and we learn that God's grace can be resisted.

The conclusion is even when you become one of the elect, do not resist the Holy Spirit.

Calvin clearly blundered on that tulip point, that is, 'Irresistible grace'.

On the other hand, it is also written:

Rom 9:6b-7
... For not all who are descended from Israel are Israel. 7 Nor because they are his descendants are they all Abraham's children. On the contrary....
NIV

God's grace cannot be resisted. Name one person Jesus raised from the dead who successfully resisted his power.

 

[HeIsHere]

“He [Christ] came unto his own, and his own received him not. But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: Which were born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God” (KJV).

Here the “power” to become sons of God is given only to those who already believe.

Nor can the relationship be achieved by means of any plan that might be devised by the “will of man" meaning >>> man was not in a position to devise the plan, only God could do that.
Rather, it is by means of a spiritual “birth” that such is accomplished and to experience the spiritual birth the call is to believe in the work of Christ Jesus on our behalf.

Every single Calvinist proof text offers no support for this dogma under contextual inspection.

 

[Cameron143]

The notion that the Spirit must operate upon a person in a supernatural fashion, before he can believe, has neither the support of these texts, nor biblical instruction elsewhere.

The Spirit of God operates through the power of the gospel to bring one to faith in Christ (Rom. 1:16).

This is sufficient for one who will give it an honest hearing.
(Wayne Jackson)

It's the very thing John 3 is talking about. That's the substance of Jesus' discourse with Nicodemus.

 

[Rufus]

In the case of Israel only a remnant was saved.

In the case of the Gentiles, well, they have the green light and those saved are a huge number.

In fact, the saved amongst the Gentiles are from all the nations.

Christianity overwhelmed the Roman Empire and a remnant cannot do that.

Of course, a remnant can do that! You have a very low view of God's wisdom, power and purposes. How many times did a rag tag bunch of Israelites defeat much stronger armies when seizing the land from their enemies and he enemies of God?

 

[Kroogz]

My answer is, you refuse to believe Paul, Jesus etc., you will not believe me .........not that I am believing that you do not already have your own opinion on the question so stay where you are, you seem content in your folly, not much more I can do about except pray I guess.

James 4:6
But He gives us more grace. This is why it says: “God opposes the proud, but gives grace to the humble.”

Proverbs 3:34
He mocks the mockers, but gives grace to the humble.

Luke 18:13
But the tax collector, standing some distance away, was even unwilling to raise his eyes toward heaven, but was beating his chest, saying, ‘God, be merciful to me, the sinner!’
14I tell you, this man went to his house justified rather than the other one; for everyone who exalts himself will be humbled, but the one who humbles himself will be exalted.”

2 Cor 6:2~~For He says: “In an acceptable time I have heard you, And in the day of salvation I have helped you.” Behold, now is the accepted time; behold, now is the day of salvation.

John 16~~ 7But I tell you the truth: it is to your advantage that I am leaving; for if I do not leave, the Helper will not come to you; but if I go, I will send Him to you. 8And He, when He comes, will convict the world regarding sin, and righteousness, and judgment: 9regarding sin, because they do not believe in Me;

 

[HeIsHere]

Yes it’s just like any philosophy or faith . Only the gospel is true and actually is of God and is filled with life and salvation

Yes agree, the Gospel is about not being good enough not about how horrible a sinner one is.

 

[Cranberry]

The notion that the Spirit must operate upon a person in a supernatural fashion, before he can believe, has neither the support of these texts, nor biblical instruction elsewhere.

The Spirit of God operates through the power of the gospel to bring one to faith in Christ (Rom. 1:16).

This is sufficient for one who will give it an honest hearing.
(Wayne Jackson)

Perhaps following what Jesus taught is more fulfilling than the opinion of Mr.Jackson.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

Yes agree, the Gospel is about not being good enough not about how horrible a sinner one is.

right jesus came to save sinners and he loved them and called them to him. And we’ve all sinned…..

 

[Cameron143]

Lol once you hear the theory brother it’s up to you , you tell me do you believe I see actual pigs actually flying around my yard at noon every day ?

That wasn't my point, but I hope you can keep your pigs from flying away.

 

[HeIsHere]

Perhaps following what Jesus taught is more fulfilling than the opinion of Mr.Jackson.

I think that is exactly what he is doing exegeting scripture correctly in context.

 

[Pilgrimshope]

It's the very thing John 3 is talking about. That's the substance of Jesus' discourse with Nicodemus.

baptism ?

 

[HeIsHere]

right the fallen natire is why we all need to accept the gospel so we can be restored to Gods children

You have the right perspective there Mr. Pilgrimshope!! Yay!! 🥳

I think it begins with getting the foundation right, how one is saved and then build from there.

 

[Rufus]

It's not the people who are elect it's the plan. Read it again God has predestined that those who get saved will be conformed to the image of His Son. When the elect are mentioned it's a group that you join of free will that is Holy. Elect pretty much means you're set aside. But the plan of salvation and transformation were chosen by God the Father. I thank God for free will salvation because they would any God put people in hell that he never offered salvation if he let some be saved from sin. Seek out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

So Peter in 1 Pet 1 when addressing his audience the "elect" wasn't addressing flesh 'n' blood people but a plan?

 

[Rufus]

And... Would you like a finger bowl with your dainties, sir?

That would be infinitely more appealing than what you have been offering.

 

[HeIsHere]

Right. But what changes so I do believe pigs fly?

 

[Rufus]

The notion that the Spirit must operate upon a person in a supernatural fashion, before he can believe, has neither the support of these texts, nor biblical instruction elsewhere.

The Spirit of God operates through the power of the gospel to bring one to faith in Christ (Rom. 1:16).

This is sufficient for one who will give it an honest hearing.
(Wayne Jackson)

Of course...an "honest" hearing in totally wicked, self-deceived heart in which there is no spiritual soundness. That would only make sense to the inmates of an insane asylum.

 

[HeIsHere]

Right. But what changes so I do believe pigs fly?

We already know what you believe .......and all your questions is not going to change those who actually possess the truth with regards to soteriology according to scripture.