Understanding God’s election
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Yet at the same time, you think Peter also addressed the world in his second epistle. (Talk out of both sides of your mouth much? The issue here is not who picks up a bible and reads it. The issue is with respect to every book in canon and who was every writer's original audience. If you ignore this fundamental hermeneutical principle, then you can literally make the bible read anyway you want, which is blatantly and shamelessly dishonest! Interpreting any text apart from context is purely a pretext.
And to whom was Ezekiel writing, if not God's chosen people? Also, my edits to your 2Pet 3:9 quote does not change the sense of the passage whatsoever. God is not patient toward the entire world in this passage wanting or wishing or hoping that then entire world comes to repentance (a world that Jesus never prayed for in John 17!), but God is patient toward his elect (for whom Jesus did pray for in John 17) because there are numerous promises in scripture that God will keep, preserve and protect his ELECT so that none of them ever perish!
I am a Christian - However, I would never look at someone who is not a believer and say "you are not among the elect".
Please remember that all were chosen before time, as we know it. The thief on the cross who turned to Christ (at the very last moment) was among the elect!
Anyone who has this line of thinking should stop and re-consider!
Please remember that all were chosen before time, as we know it. The thief on the cross who turned to Christ (at the very last moment) was among the elect!
Anyone who has this line of thinking should stop and re-consider!
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Please remember that we all learn by hearing God's word. But the Bible is not always clear to everyone, especially those who read it for the first time. That is why it is so important to have a good teacher!
Consider both sides, then go back and read what is said in scripture, from both views - you may change your mind as to which is correct.
Consider both sides, then go back and read what is said in scripture, from both views - you may change your mind as to which is correct.
Or you might change your mind to what is incorrect lol. Having a teacher is imporant however there are so many different views and thus different teachers. I like to read the Bible then think on it. I believe God also teaches you that way. He teaches you what you are capable of learning. He's not gonna go strait to the spherical trigonometry without showing you how to add first. The middle verse in the Bible says ( it is better to put your trust in God than put confidence in a man) so yeas teachers are good but when it comes down to the brass tacks if someone is telling you something that you feel in your hear isint true. Thats nothing to ignore either. People can become so confident that they become just as blinded as an unbeliever.
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A few ways:
- Use the search function in the upper right > he identified a "Hermeneutics" thread so I'd search for that.
- You can go back to the "Christian Forums" page linked at the top - Go to "Bible Discussion Forum" and scan through titles for it
- He identified a poster - so you can click on their ID circle to the left of one of their posts - click on their ID name when the pop-up data shows - it takes you to their info page where you can link to their latest posts which you can scan for the thread
- ask @GWH to provide better info but he's still learning how to use some functions also.
- I'm sure there are more routes
So, practice or just click here
- Use the search function in the upper right > he identified a "Hermeneutics" thread so I'd search for that.
- You can go back to the "Christian Forums" page linked at the top - Go to "Bible Discussion Forum" and scan through titles for it
- He identified a poster - so you can click on their ID circle to the left of one of their posts - click on their ID name when the pop-up data shows - it takes you to their info page where you can link to their latest posts which you can scan for the thread
- ask @GWH to provide better info but he's still learning how to use some functions also.
- I'm sure there are more routes
So, practice or just click here
The changing of minds doesn't seem to take place often here. However, it does once in a while and periodically someone you never heard from before may chime and tell you that something you said along the way was helpful. More often though it's a skin thickening experience. I think @GWH once said he uses it as practice to learn how to love better.
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I'm not saying that God doesn't speak to the unsaved through his scriptures. All I'm saying is that Peter's original audience in both his letters were NOT addressed to the unsaved but to BELIEVERS! And, THEREFORE, the content of those epistles can only rightfully be understood in the context of that particular audience.
So, now I ask you: What content in 2Pet 2 prompted Peter to write to Jewish believers that God is patient toward them and not willing that any of them perish but that all of them come to repentance? Why would Peter write such a weighty and sobering exhortation? Do you think you can discover why by actually reading the epistle without your presuppositions?
So, now I ask you: What content in 2Pet 2 prompted Peter to write to Jewish believers that God is patient toward them and not willing that any of them perish but that all of them come to repentance? Why would Peter write such a weighty and sobering exhortation? Do you think you can discover why by actually reading the epistle without your presuppositions?
Ok what i am saying is that Peter spoke by the inspired word of God. Which is continuing to be read and spoke by believers and non believers alike today. While he addressed it to the believers then God knew it would be spoken of still today and so it is addressed to you to me and all others who read it. What they do with it once they read it is up to them.
2pet 3:9
9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Why would Peter say “not wishing that any should perish”, (meaning no one should perish), when we all know that this is not what happens.
If the Lord wishes for something to happen, He can surely make it come to pass.
Would it not make more since to understand that the “all” and "any" mean (believers, God's elect). After all, his elect will not perish and will reach repentance! (IMHO)
9 The Lord is not slow to fulfill his promise as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should reach repentance.
Why would Peter say “not wishing that any should perish”, (meaning no one should perish), when we all know that this is not what happens.
If the Lord wishes for something to happen, He can surely make it come to pass.
Would it not make more since to understand that the “all” and "any" mean (believers, God's elect). After all, his elect will not perish and will reach repentance! (IMHO)
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When it says not wishing that any should perish but that all should reach repentance. It means God does not want any to parish and he that all would reach repentance. Wishing equals wants in my opinion. He loves everyone and wishes we would all be saved but that's not the case. It like a parent with a child who turns to drugs and all the horrors that come with it. You still live them wish they could be saved and when they die you still cry over them. Because you love them.
Is it really up to them if they are still captive to the will of the devil and under the power and influence of the evil one? What choice is one most likely to make as a lover of darkness who is a slave to sin suppressing the truth in unrighteousness? This seems to be the great divide, for many refuse to even acknowledge this plight of the natural man. They believe such a person can and will choose to believe that which they can neither receive nor comprehend, to which they are inherently opposed, and which is foolishness to them.