Understanding God’s election

[Jackson129]

The 2nd and 3rd chapters of Revelation are addressed to the churches. Jesus quite a number of times says...let he that hath an ear hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
And I never said everyone who is a church member is saved. And if you understand from what is written is to the churches, why would you feel the need to say it again.
A repeated emphasis is placed on hearing in these 2 chapters. Jesus' sheep hear His voice. I haven't seen in scripture another group of whom this is said.

Let he that hath an ear..hear what the spirit say to the churches. Every man or woman who is not deaf has an ear. The words of the Bible are for all to hear. Only his sheep know his voice yes. But he spoke to every sheep. How is anybody ever saved if only his sheep hear his voice if they need to be saved to hear it in the first place?

 

[GWH]

God's Will doesn't have to be contingent because man is capable of messing his own life up.

"God hates sinners because they're evil. God cannot love what is evil." (Rufus)
No per Matt. 5:44 & 48.

 

[Magenta]

The 2nd and 3rd chapters of Revelation are addressed to the churches. Jesus quite a number of times says...let he that hath an ear hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
And I never said everyone who is a church member is saved. And if you understand from what is written is to the churches, why would you feel the need to say it again.
A repeated emphasis is placed on hearing in these 2 chapters. Jesus' sheep hear His voice. I haven't seen in scripture another group of whom this is said.

John 10 verses 27-28 My sheep hear My voice, I know them and they follow Me. I give them eternal life, and they will never perish. No one can snatch them out of My hand.

 

[Magenta]

Every man or woman who is not deaf has an ear.

John 8 verses 43, 47, Acts 13 verse 48, Romans 8 verse 8, John 8 verse 43 “Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you are unable to accept My message.” “Whoever belongs to God hears the words of God. The reason you do not hear is that you do not belong to God.” When the Gentiles heard this, they rejoiced and glorified the word of the Lord, and all who were appointed for eternal life believed. Those controlled by the flesh cannot please God.

 

[Cameron143]

Let he that hath an ear..hear what the spirit say to the churches. Every man or woman who is not deaf has an ear. The words of the Bible are for all to hear. Only his sheep know his voice yes. But he spoke to every sheep. How is anybody ever saved if only his sheep hear his voice if they need to be saved to hear it in the first place?

God grants hearing through His word...Romans 10:17.

 

[rogerg]

I never said God needs man. I said God knows what man is going to do. Your error is not paying attention and why your Biblical explanations don't match Scripture.

So, by that, you are saying it is up to man to do something to be saved, correct? - that man must
contribute his part to the salvation transaction, and if not, then no salvation - not by Christ alone - thus making man part savior too.
My explanations do match scripture because I am saying there can ONLY BE ONE SAVIOR - He alone being the only one who saves - man not. Your explanations fly directly in the face of scripture and the doctrine of a Savior. You would make man a co-savior along with Christ, but you are spiritually blind and unable to see that you are doing so.

 

[Magenta]

Let he that hath an ear..hear what the spirit say to the churches. Every man or woman who is not deaf has an ear. The words of the Bible are for all to hear. Only his sheep know his voice yes. But he spoke to every sheep. How is anybody ever saved if only his sheep hear his voice if they need to be saved to hear it in the first place?

Everyone who hears will live. That blows your theory right out of the water unless everyone is saved.

John 5 verses 24-25 ~ Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life. Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

 

[BillyBob]

"God hates sinners because they're evil. God cannot love what is evil." (Rufus)
No per Matt. 5:44 & 48.

Of course God asks us to pray for our enemies. We cannot make a judgment as to how they will be used by God. Perhaps that person is just like Saul of Tarsus who became Paul the Apostle. God can change anyone at any time, and use them in anyway.
Although I will admit it would not be easy!

 

[Jackson129]

Everyone who hears will live. That blows your theory right out of the water unless everyone is saved.

John 5 verses 24-25 ~ Truly, truly, I tell you, whoever hears My word and believes Him who sent Me has eternal life and will not come under judgment. Indeed, he has crossed over from death to life. Truly, truly, I tell you, the hour is coming and has now come when the dead will hear the voice of the Son of God, and those who hear will live.

Ok I think I know where our difference is comming from. I think we have hearing and understanding mixed up. To me hearing is hearing. If I tell 100 people about Jesus and 1 understands it. To me all of them heard it but only the one understands it.

 

[lrs68]

So, by that, you are saying it is up to man to do something to be saved, correct? - that man must
contribute his part to the salvation transaction, and if not, then no salvation - not by Christ alone - thus making man part savior too.
My explanations do match scripture because I am saying there can ONLY BE ONE SAVIOR - He alone being the only one who saves - man not. Your explanations fly directly in the face of scripture and the doctrine of a Savior. You would make man a co-savior along with Christ, but you are spiritually blind and unable to see that you are doing so.

Man can't do anything to save his soul.

But man can do hundreds of things to bring destruction upon himself like the judgement of God by rejecting God.

 

[rogerg]

Man can't do anything to save his soul.

But man can do hundreds of things to bring destruction upon himself like the judgement of God by rejecting God.

So then you ARE saying that don't believe Jesus Christ is the Savior? Or is it that you just can't comprehend that a Savior alone saves?

 

[Magenta]

Ok I think I know where our difference is comming from. I think we have hearing and understanding mixed up. To me hearing is hearing. If I tell 100 people about Jesus and 1 understands it. To me all of them heard it but only the one understands it.

As you said everyone has ears but it is not simply about hearing, is it? Hearing encompasses comprehension in this
case, and this is evidenced too by the fact that unbelievers hear the gospel message, but it is as foolishness to them.

If it was simply about hearing the words, anyone who heard the gospel would be saved first time.

 

[lrs68]

So then you ARE saying that don't believe Jesus Christ is the Savior? Or is it that you just can't comprehend that a Savior alone saves?

God is the only Savior available.
Man cannot save himself.
Man needs God to be saved.

 

[Jackson129]

As you said everyone has ears but it is not simply about hearing, is it? Hearing encompasses comprehension in this
case, and this is evidenced too by the fact that unbelievers hear the gospel message, but it is as foolishness to them.

If it was simply about hearing the words, anyone who heard the gospel would be saved first time.

I dont disagree with you. I do believe God inspired the words of the Bible for every single human being to hear. Only his sheep understand it. I guess it is hard for me to explain. God's grace is what saves us that and that alone. God's grace is what gives us the choice to follow him. Without that grace our deprived sinful disgusting mind could not even conceive that choice. God knew the elect from the beginning we do not. For the first 35 years of my life as a human in this world I was not the elect. Drugs booze women you name it. However God knew I would come to him the exact day I did. He set it up so I had to come to him willingly. In no ways does that mean I think I had some part in saving my soul I did not. God's grace gave me the ability to willing choose him.

 

[rogerg]

God is the only Savior available.
Man cannot save himself.
Man needs God to be saved.

So, you agree that Jesus saves apart from the actions of man - that based solely upon His good pleasure? And if saved by God apart from man's actions, then neither it can't be lost by man's actions?

 

[Magenta]

I dont disagree with you. I do believe God inspired the words of the Bible for every single human being to hear. Only his sheep understand it. I guess it is hard for me to explain. God's grace is what saves us that and that alone. God's grace is what gives us the choice to follow him. Without that grace our deprived sinful disgusting mind could not even conceive that choice. God knew the elect from the beginning we do not. For the first 35 years of my life as a human in this world I was not the elect. Drugs booze women you name it. However God knew I would come to him the exact day I did. He set it up so I had to come to him willingly. In no ways does that mean I think I had some part in saving my soul I did not. God's grace gave me the ability to willing choose him.

Why do you say you were not of the elect? When you also say God knew the exact day you would turn?

I was almost 50 when I converted. I understand the natural man very well. Many here are clueless about who he is.

Romans 8 verse 29-30; Ephesians 1 verse 5 ~ Those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. And those He predestined, He also called; those He called, He also justified; those He justified, He also glorified. He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will.

 

[BillyBob]

For the first 35 years of my life as a human in this world I was not the elect.

Not True! You were His all alone!

 

[lrs68]

I believe

So, you agree that Jesus saves apart from the actions of man - that based solely upon His good pleasure? And if saved by God apart from man's actions, then neither it can't be lost by man's actions?

I believe God's good pleasure is that all men would Repent and be receptive to the works of Salvation. Romans 1 shows us that God has manifested Himself to even those who reject Him. God wouldn't manifest Himself so people are aware that God is real unless God wanted them to repent.

 

[Jackson129]

Not True! You were His all alone!

I understand that concept. God knew I was the elect all my life I did not. In this earthy realm I was not the elect I was not a believer I was a disgusting sinner until God's grace allowed me to willing accept Jesus as Lord and savior. In God's eternal realm I always was. I had to come to him willingly. So you cannot take man's free will out of the process but you can remove man's free will with having anything to do with the outcome.

 

[rogerg]

I believe

I believe God's good pleasure is that all men would Repent and be receptive to the works of Salvation. Romans 1 shows us that God has manifested Himself to even those who reject Him. God wouldn't manifest Himself so people are aware that God is real unless God wanted them to repent.

I see what @Rufus means about not getting a straight answer from you. Do you believe Jesus is the Savior or not? Yes, or no, please