Understanding God’s election

[Magenta]

I understand that concept. God knew I was the elect all my life I did not. In this earthy realm I was not the elect
I was not a believer I was a disgusting sinner until God's grace allowed me to willing accept
Jesus as Lord and savior. In God's eternal realm I always was. I had to come to him willingly. So you cannot
take man's free will out of the process but you can remove man's free will with having anything to do with the outcome.

That describes all of us. But guess what? Not everyone here agrees with and/or believes even that. They say the natural man is not that bad. He is actually a good guy, you know? Just a little misunderstood perhaps. He is certainly not the person Scripture makes him out to be.

He is a slave to sin and a lover of darkness and suppresses the truth in unrighteousness, but he is going to believe what he is inherently opposed to and hostile in his mind about, and just up and accept that which is foolishness to him because he is a good guy after all.

 

[lrs68]

Do you believe Jesus is the Savior or not? Yes, or no, please

Yes!

 

[BillyBob]

I understand that concept. God knew I was the elect all my life I did not. In this earthy realm I was not the elect I was not a believer I was a disgusting sinner until God's grace allowed me to willing accept Jesus as Lord and savior. In God's eternal realm I always was. I had to come to him willingly. So you cannot take man's free will out of the process but you can remove man's free will with having anything to do with the outcome.

Your will changed because God gave you a new heart. Just like Magenta, I was in my fifties when I turned to God. But, He knew me even before I knew Him. Praise the LORD.

 

[GWH]

Of course God asks us to pray for our enemies. We cannot make a judgment as to how they will be used by God. Perhaps that person is just like Saul of Tarsus who became Paul the Apostle. God can change anyone at any time, and use them in anyway.
Although I will admit it would not be easy!

No, God commands us to love and pray for our enemies,
so that we will be like God, who loves His enemies. (Rom. 5:5-8)
I agree that truth seems to be quite difficult for some folks to comprehend.

 

[GWH]

I dont disagree with you. I do believe God inspired the words of the Bible for every single human being to hear. Only his sheep understand it. I guess it is hard for me to explain. God's grace is what saves us that and that alone. God's grace is what gives us the choice to follow him. Without that grace our deprived sinful disgusting mind could not even conceive that choice. God knew the elect from the beginning we do not. For the first 35 years of my life as a human in this world I was not the elect. Drugs booze women you name it. However God knew I would come to him the exact day I did. He set it up so I had to come to him willingly. In no ways does that mean I think I had some part in saving my soul I did not. God's grace gave me the ability to willing choose him.

Yes, which is what may be called "seeking grace" (Matt. 7:7, 1Tim. 2:3-4).
It nullifies/neutralizes the natural man's sinful will sufficiently
to provide the opportunity to choose to seek and be saved/become elect--or not (Deut. 30:19).

 

[BillyBob]

I dont disagree with you. I do believe God inspired the words of the Bible for every single human being to hear. Only his sheep understand it. I guess it is hard for me to explain. God's grace is what saves us that and that alone. God's grace is what gives us the choice to follow him. Without that grace our deprived sinful disgusting mind could not even conceive that choice. God knew the elect from the beginning we do not. For the first 35 years of my life as a human in this world I was not the elect. Drugs booze women you name it. However God knew I would come to him the exact day I did. He set it up so I had to come to him willingly. In no ways does that mean I think I had some part in saving my soul I did not. God's grace gave me the ability to willing choose him.

Excellent Post! If you stray off in a different direction, I will remind you of what you just proclaimed...

 

[Jackson129]

That describes all of us. But guess what? Not everyone here agrees with and/or believes even that. They say the natural man is not that bad. He is actually a good guy, you know? Just a little misunderstood perhaps. He is certainly not the person Scripture makes him out to be.

He is a slave to sin and a lover of darkness and suppresses the truth in unrighteousness, but he is going to believe what he is inherently opposed to and hostile in his mind about, and just up and accept that which is foolishness to him because he is a good guy after all.

I dont belive man's free will has anything to do with his salvation. I do believe we have to willing choose to follow him. In no ways in my mind does that mean I chose to save my soul. It means to me God's grace gave me the ability to hear his voice and willingly follow him.
I do disagree strongly on here with some that the words of the Bible are only for the elect. I believe God gave every human those words to hear. Not that everyone hears and responds. For many are called but few are chosen. His sheep from one end of the earth to the other can't be called if there is nothing to hear. So he calls to everyone and only the chosen hear or understand or respond.

 

[rogerg]

Yes!

So, since salvation was/is given solely and freely by Him as the God/Savior, once given, it cannot be lost by man.

 

[Magenta]

I dont belive man's free will has anything to do with his salvation. I do believe we have to willing choose to follow him. In no ways in my mind does that mean I chose to save my soul. It means to me God's grace gave me the ability to hear his voice and willingly follow him.
I do disagree strongly on here with some that the words of the Bible are only for the elect. I believe God gave every human those words to hear. Not that everyone hears and responds. For many are called but few are chosen. His sheep from one end of the earth to the other can't be called if there is nothing to hear. So he calls to everyone and only the chosen hear or understand or respond.

It does sound like you are saying God did what was necessary so you could and would respond to Him because none can do so without His acting first. Nobody comes unless they are drawn and all who are given to Jesus will come. We do co-operate for sure, after our will is freed from the power and control of the devil, and our hearts are absolutely changed before we do any of that, just like God's Word says: He will give us a new heart so we may love Him. The world does not know Him at all.

Romans 8 verse 7a, Galatians 5 verse 17, John 1 verse 5, John 14 verse 17 ~ The mind of the flesh is hostile to God: It does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. The flesh craves what is contrary to the Spirit, and the Spirit what is contrary to the flesh. Darkness does not comprehend the Light. The world cannot receive the Spirit of Truth, because it neither sees Him nor knows Him.

 

[Magenta]

I was a disgusting sinner until God's grace allowed me to willing accept Jesus as Lord and savior.

Me too!

From Romans 6:19-21 You used to offer your body in slavery to impurity and to escalating wickedness when you were slaves to sin. What fruit did you reap at that time from the things of which you are now ashamed? The outcome of those things is death.

 

[Jackson129]

So, since salvation was/is given solely and freely by Him as the God/Savior, once given, it cannot be lost by man.

You are right it can't be lost by man it cannot be taken from you by Satan or power or dominion. But this is my question i have been thinking about. There is one who can take it away. I would think the Father who gave you to the Son has the power to take you away. The idea of once saved always saved just sits a little weird in me that's all. I would never do it but I have the free will to deny God even after comming to him. I think it's called apostasy? I just think if a a Christian tried hard enough he could separate himself from God again. And I understand the argument then says you were never truly saved to begin with. Its just that concept in my journey so far sits in a weird feeling area like I dont know about that feeling.

 

[Magenta]

You are right it can't be lost by man it cannot be taken from you by Satan or power or dominion. But this is my question i have been thinking about. There is one who can take it away. I would think the Father who gave you to the Son has the power to take you away. The idea of once saved always saved just sits a little weird in me that's all. I would never do it but I have the free will to deny God even after comming to him. I think it's called apostasy? I just think if a a Christian tried hard enough he could separate himself from God again. And I understand the argument then says you were never truly saved to begin with. Its just that concept in my journey so far sits in a weird feeling area like I dont know about that feeling.

Romans 9 verse 18; John 6 verse 44; John 6 verse 65; John 6 verse 37; John 6 verse63; Titus 3 verse5 ~ God has mercy on whom He wants to have mercy, and He hardens whom He wants to harden. No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him. This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless it is granted him by the Father. All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. The Spirit gives life; the flesh profits nothing. He saved us because of His mercy, through the washing of rebirth and renewal by the Holy Spirit.

 

[Magenta]

John 6 verse 37 All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out.

 

[lrs68]

Most in this thread think man has no power in earth concerning God and His Will even though God placed DOMINION and ALL THINGS in man's control.




4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him?

5 For thou hast made him but little lower than God,
And crownest him with glory and honor.

6 Thou makest him to have dominion over the works of thy hands;
Thou hast put all things under his feet:

 

[PaulThomson]

Did He love Esau?

Esau, in 1836 BC, the brother of Jacob? Yes.

Esau, in 430 BC, the descendants of the brother of Jacob? No.

 

[GWH]

Your will changed because God gave you a new heart. Just like Magenta, I was in my fifties when I turned to God. But, He knew me even before I knew Him. Praise the LORD.

God gave me a new heart from childhood just like Timothy (2Tim. 3:15-17) before I was even able to understand GRFS (Matt. 19:14).
PTL!!

 

[rogerg]

You are right it can't be lost by man it cannot be taken from you by Satan or power or dominion. But this is my question i have been thinking about. There is one who can take it away. I would think the Father who gave you to the Son has the power to take you away. The idea of once saved always saved just sits a little weird in me that's all. I would never do it but I have the free will to deny God even after comming to him. I think it's called apostasy? I just think if a a Christian tried hard enough he could separate himself from God again. And I understand the argument then says you were never truly saved to begin with. Its just that concept in my journey so far sits in a weird feeling area like I dont know about that feeling.

I understand your question and at a certain point had the same one myself. However, based upon these
verses, the question pretty much settled itself in my mind - that for those so chosen by God, it would be impossible to
fall away through apostacy or for any other reason given that God Himself assumed responsibility that
we do not. While at times we may feel more confident about it than at other times, nevertheless, we always
come back to the realization and sure belief that it is Christ alone who truly is the Savior (and all that is represented by that title), which, I believe, demonstrates God working in us.

[1Pe 1:4-5 KJV]
4 To an inheritance incorruptible, and undefiled, and that fadeth not away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

I can expound further on these verses you'd like

 

[Intersection]

So, since salvation was/is given solely and freely by Him as the God/Savior, once given, it cannot be lost by man.

Those who are not of the elect never have salvation.

 

[rogerg]

Those who are not of the elect never have salvation.

Correct. Otherwise, it would be by works, in which case, no one would/could be saved.

 

[BillyBob]

I do disagree strongly on here with some that the words of the Bible are only for the elect.

Jackson,
I do not think anyone has said that scripture is not meant to instruct everyone who reads it. They are, however, saying that it is very important to understand who is speaking and to whom they are speaking.
For example: Suppose that I was speaking to a large group of Christian friends and I said:
“You all are very loving and kind.” No one should take that to mean that I said that all are loving and kind, meaning the whole world. That is exactly what many do!