Understanding God’s election

[Rufus]

What's with these accusations?

And I bet you are so self-deceived that you think that God is going to sing your praises on Judgment Day

You are so blinded by your hatred for God's truth and for the love of your falsehoods

Is this how you address the other brethren when you gather for church?

Where did you learn to talk like that to other people?

You were called to love your enemies, Rufus.

No, I attend a church that consists mostly of lIKE-MINDED brothers and sisters who love God's Truth. My bible tells me that if you have the love of God in your soul, that love will rejoice in the truth. Rather, you rail against it. You fight against it. You oppose it! you deny it! You cannot even accept what is explictly written in scripture! Your only interest, so it seems, is to twist God's Word to fit into your personal, pet theological presuppositions.

 

[GWH]

From 2 Timothy 1 verses 8b-9 Join with me in suffering for the gospel, by the power of God. He has saved us and called us to a holy life - not because of anything we have done but because of His own purpose and grace. This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time.

The doctrine of election can be harmonized with the doctrine of an all-loving God by understanding the meaning of “in Christ” in Ephesians 1:3-14.

1:3, “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will, to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.”

In the EPH passage we can see that what the all-loving God predestined was NOT that some souls would be damned, but rather the plan of salvation to elect potentially all humanity, whom He loves and atoned for (1Tim. 2:3-5), if they exercise their God-given grace of volition to accept His offer of grace IN Christ (2Thes. 2:10).

 

[studier]

Election Scriptures:

The noun used is eklogē

Occurrences in the BGT Manuscript (Combines the BNT - Novum Testamentum Graece, Nestle-Aland 28th Edition. Copyright (c) 2014 Deutsch Bibelgesellschaft, Stuttgart and the LXT - LXX Septuaginta (Old Greek Jewish Scriptures) edited by Alfred Rahlfs. Copyright © 1935 by the Württembergische Bibelanstalt / Deutsche Bibelgesellschaft (German Bible Society), Stuttgart.)

• 7x - only in NC

Definition from BDAG Lexicon (just the main points):
1. a special choice, selection, choice, election
2. that which is chosen/selected,


Since there are only 7 verses to look at and since these verses seem to be very meaningful to the discussion of God’s elect, I’ll break routine and quote all the verses and highlight the pertinent language rather than just summarizing.

• NKJ Acts 9:15 But the Lord said to him, "Go, for he is a chosen vessel of Mine to bear My name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel.
• NKJ Rom. 9:11 (for the children not yet being born, nor having done any good or evil, that the purpose-prothesis of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who
• NKJ Rom. 11:5 Even so then, at this present time there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
• NKJ Rom. 11:7 What then? Israel has not obtained what it seeks; but the elect have obtained it, and the rest were blinded.
• NKJ Rom. 11:28 Concerning the gospel they are enemies for your sake, but concerning the election they are beloved for the sake of the fathers.
• NKJ 1 Thess. 1:4 knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.
• NKJ 2 Pet. 1:10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;

Analyzing the Scriptures:

• Acts9:15 is simply telling us that the Apostle Paul is our Lord Jesus Christ’s chosen vessel/instrument to carry His name before Gentiles, kings, and the children of Israel (who are themselves YHWH’s chosen men as descendants of Jacob/Israel who is also God’s chosen man and one of the fathers of Israel whom God chose.
  • Note that Jesus Christ chose a man to carry His name to all men including to God’s chosen men (Israel) in a line of chosen men going back to Abraham. (See eklektos and eklegō Summaries).

Each of the remaining verses is going to take some work and deserves some added attention for various reasons including some translational issues.

 

[studier]

to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

IMO a most important phrase and concept.

What translation are you using in this post?

 

[GWH]

IMO a most important phrase and concept.

What translation are you using in this post?

I usually use the NIV, as in this case, although I view translations as comparable to brands of gas,
but the NIV has a good concordance and was given to me at my ordination.

 

[studier]

I usually use the NIV, as in this case, although I view translations as comparable to brands of gas,
but the NIV has a good concordance and was given to me at my ordination.

Thanks!

 

[Magenta]

Definition from BDAG Lexicon (just the main points):
1. a special choice, selection, choice, election
2. that which is chosen/selected,

Vine's Expository Dictionary

TDNT Reference: 4:176,505

KJV Translation Count — Total: 7x

The KJV translates Strong's G1589 in the following manner: election (6x), chosen (1x).

1. the act of picking out, choosing
   
   1. of the act of God's free will by which before the foundation of the world he decreed his blessings to certain persons
   2. the decree made from choice by which he determined to bless certain persons through Christ by grace alone
2. a thing or person chosen
   
   1. of persons: God's elect

From 1 Peter 1 verses 3-5 ~ The elect are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood. By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

 

[Rufus]

What's with these accusations?

And I bet you are so self-deceived that you think that God is going to sing your praises on Judgment Day

You are so blinded by your hatred for God's truth and for the love of your falsehoods

Is this how you address the other brethren when you gather for church?

Where did you learn to talk like that to other people?

You were called to love your enemies, Rufus.

No, I attend a church that consists mostly of lIKE-MINDED brothers and sisters who love God's Truth. My bible tells me that if you have the love of God in your soul, that love will rejoice in the truth. Rather, you rail against it. You fight against it. You oppose it! you deny it! You cannot even accept what is explictly written in scripture! Your only interest, so it seems, is to twist God's Word to fit into your personal, pet theological presuppositions.

Deut. 30:19-20

And how did the command in the above passage, which was given way before God would fulfill his circumcision promise, work out for Israel? Israel could not obey the command because their hearts were not circumcised, which means they had no love for God which accounts for their historic failure to obey.

 

[Rufus]

The doctrine of election can be harmonized with the doctrine of an all-loving God by understanding the meaning of “in Christ” in Ephesians 1:3-14.

1:3, “Praise be to the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in the heavenly realms with every spiritual blessing in Christ. For he chose us in him before the creation of the world to be holy and blameless in his sight. In love he predestined us to be adopted as his sons through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will, to the praise of his glorious grace, which he has freely given us in the One he loves. In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of sins, in accordance with the riches of God’s grace that he lavished on us with all wisdom and understanding. And he made known to us the mystery of his will according to his good pleasure which he purposed in Christ, to be put into effect when the times will have reached their fulfillment—to bring all things in heaven and on earth together under one head, even Christ.

In him we were also chosen, having been predestined according to the plan of him who works out everything in conformity with the purpose of his will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, might be for the praise of his glory. And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit, who is a deposit guaranteeing our inheritance until the redemption of those who are God’s possession—to the praise of his glory.”

In the EPH passage we can see that what the all-loving God predestined was NOT that some souls would be damned, but rather the plan of salvation to elect potentially all humanity, whom He loves and atoned for (1Tim. 2:3-5), if they exercise their God-given grace of volition to accept His offer of grace IN Christ (2Thes. 2:10).

Your god is merely a potential savior. But my God who revealed himself in scripture is an actual Savior who gives life to whoever HE pleases!

 

[Rufus]

Mr. GWH, I have a question for you: When you were born how did you get to be in Adam?

 

[Rufus]

Hi Folks:

Yesterday, I did some unpacking of the Parable of the Banquet in Luke 14. Here's another observation from that parable. Clearly, there are two main groups of people in view: One group received the outward call of the gospel and rejected it and were condemned; the other group (consisting of two sub-groups) were recipients of the inward, efficacious call of the gospel which they obeyed. Therefore, God treated both groups quite differently, did He not? So much for the FWT theory that tries to con us into believing that God is the cosmic EOE who treats all people equally.

 

[studier]

Election Scriptures:

The noun used is eklogē

Definition from BDAG Lexicon (just the main points):
1. a special choice, selection, choice, election
2. that which is chosen/selected,

Because I know some things from Romans and I think most of the meat re: Election in the NC is explained there, I’m going to look at Romans last and deal with a few more simpler verses first.

Analyzing the Scriptures:

• NKJ 1 Thess. 1:4 knowing, beloved brethren, your election by God.
  • Paul, Silvanus and Timothy (I’ll just be naming Paul) wrote to the Ekklesia of the Thessalonian Christians
  • This Ekklesia is seen to consist of both Jews and Gentiles Acts17:1-4; 1Thes1:9 so what’s being stated IMO applies to both.
  • Without detailing all the language Paul says they know these Christians – both Jew and Gentile – are chosen
    • Though the phrase is “the selection/choice/election of you (pl)”, words like this can be interesting because they are typically seen as verbal nouns, so we find translators often choosing what to convey.
      • ESV 1 Thessalonians 1:4 For we know, brothers loved by God, that he has chosen you,
      • YLT 1 Thessalonians 1:4 having known, brethren beloved, by God, your election,
      • Either way, IMO it’s clear that both Jewish and Gentile believers are being identified as chosen/elect and I see this noun form as ultimately speaking of God’s election be it His plan, purpose, or whatever else it may be identified as based upon other Scriptures.
    • Interestingly, Paul doesn’t stop here but explains how they know of [God’s] election/choice of these Christians:
      • In 1Thes1:5… Paul explains that he knows these Christian are God’s chosen/elect because of the evangelizing experience he had among them where God was at work in power and in Holy Spirit among them, so they weren’t just listening to Paul’s speech. Paul IMO also is saying he experienced deep conviction in the experience. Then he explains their response in receiving the message and thereafter.
        • So, Paul is saying he knew they were chosen/elect firstly due to God’s work in evangelizing them and secondly due to their response.
    • What is obvious here is that this OC concept of God choosing is now being applied to Christians – both Jew and Gentile - and thus beyond most of how it’s used in the OC.
• NKJ 2 Pet. 1:10 Therefore, brethren, be even more diligent to make your call and election sure, for if you do these things you will never stumble;
  • Apart from any discussions about who Peter is writing to, based upon other NC Scriptures I’m simply taking this writing as addressing Christians, ultimately both Jew and Gentile believers.
  • Peter is commanding Christians to be diligent/conscientious to make their call and election constant/valid. He has already commanded them regarding things for spiritual growth, and he follows by in essence telling them not to stumble and that they will have an abundant entrance into the Lord’s Eternal Kingdom.
  • So, once again, Christians – both Jews and Gentile – are of [God’s] chosen/elect/election.

 

[GWH]

Vine's Expository Dictionary

TDNT Reference: 4:176,505

KJV Translation Count — Total: 7x

The KJV translates Strong's G1589 in the following manner: election (6x), chosen (1x).

1. the act of picking out, choosing
   
   1. of the act of God's free will by which before the foundation of the world he decreed his blessings to certain persons
   2. the decree made from choice by which he determined to bless certain persons through Christ by grace alone
2. a thing or person chosen
   
   1. of persons: God's elect

From 1 Peter 1 verses 3-5 ~ The elect are chosen according to the foreknowledge of God the Father and sanctified by the Spirit for obedience to Jesus Christ and sprinkling by His blood. By His great mercy He has given us new birth into a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead, and into an inheritance that is imperishable, undefiled, and unfading, reserved in heaven for you, who through faith are shielded by God’s power for the salvation that is ready to be revealed in the last time.

The passage actually begins with verse 1, but the proper context is Eph. 1:3-14,
which more clearly indicates that what was predestined was God's plan for those in Christ (i.e. the saved/elect)
to be holy and blameless in His sight (i.e., to share or be reckoned as having the righteousness of Christ per Rom. 3:21-4:3).

 

[Rufus]

The passage actually begins with verse 1, but the proper context is Eph. 1:3-14,
which more clearly indicates that what was predestined was God's plan for those in Christ (i.e. the saved/elect)
to be holy and blameless in His sight (i.e., to share or be reckoned as having the righteousness of Christ per Rom. 3:21-4:3).

So...things are predestined but not people themselves?

 

[rogerg]

for those in Christ

The "those in Christ":

[1Co 30 KJV)
30 But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

which more clearly indicates that what was predestined was God's plan

The "what was predestinated":

[Eph 1:5 KJV] 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
[Eph 1:5 NIV] 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--
[Eph 1:5 ESV] 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

 

[Magenta]

So...things are predestined but not people themselves?

Amazing how all the learning they claim to have undergone results in their repeatedly trying to eliminate true meaning from Scriptures.

 

[Magenta]

The "those in Christ":

[1Co 30 KJV) But of him are ye in Christ Jesus, who of God is made unto
us wisdom, and righteousness, and sanctification, and redemption:

The "what was predestinated":

[Eph 1:5 KJV] 5 Having predestinated us unto the adoption of children by Jesus Christ to himself, according to the good pleasure of his will,
[Eph 1:5 NIV] 5 he predestined us for adoption to sonship through Jesus Christ, in accordance with his pleasure and will--
[Eph 1:5 ESV] 5 he predestined us for adoption to himself as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will,

From Ephesians 1 verses 4-6 ~ He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, which He has freely given us in the Beloved One.

 

[Magenta]

From Ephesians 1 According to the good pleasure of His will, to the praise of His glorious grace, God has made known to us the mystery of His will, which He purposed in Christ before the foundation of the world. In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him Who works out everything by the counsel of His will, in order that we, who were the first to hope in Christ, would be for the praise of His glory. .

 

[Magenta]

2 Timothy 1 verse 9~ He has saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works, but by His own purpose and by the grace He granted us in Christ Jesus before time began. Ephesians 1 verses 4-5~ He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world to be holy and blameless in His presence. In love He predestined us for adoption as His sons through Jesus Christ, according to the good pleasure of His will. Ephesians 1 verse 11~ In Him we were also chosen as God’s own, having been predestined according to the plan of Him who works out everything by the counsel of His will.

 

[GWH]

So...things are predestined but not people themselves?

Yes, and the thing is called God's will, purpose and plan in v. 9 & 11.