Understanding the 4-Horsemen of Revelation chapter 6, via Daniel chapter 7 scriptures

[BereanBride]

Realignment of Daniel chapter 7

Daniel had a vision of 4-animal beasts outlined in Daniel Chapter 7. Today’s understanding of them is based on the traditional understanding developed by the early church. In fairness, early scholars developed it based on what they knew at the time. But History wasn’t complete, and they did not know what was to come, which would have altered their understanding. They began by assuming the 4-beasts of the vision were the same empires as those of Nebuchadnezzar’s statue, aligning the first beast, the lion with eagle wings, with Nebuchadnezzar’s Babylonian empire, based on the Lion’s Gate of Babylon. This is where the misalignment of Daniel’s beast vision began, and why we may have missed understanding the 4-Horsemen.

At the time of Daniel's vision, Babylon was in the final moments of its empire's reign. Nebuchadnezzar has passed away, and Belshazzar was king, as Daniel 7:1 states. These 4 beasts empires were to come after the Babylonian Empire, beginning with the Medo-Persian Empire that soon conquered Babylon. The description of the Lion beast is as follows.

Daniel 7: 4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.

Here is a picture of an archeological discovery from the Medo-Persian Empire period, and it is called a Faravahar. The top man half actually represents Marduk, the creator God from the time of Nimrod in Babylon, and the bottom wings symbolize Assur (his believed wife), the goddess of fertility, also known as the queen of the heavens, who was heavily worshiped in Assyria. In the bible the Israelites worshipped them as Baal and Asherah.



Here is a picture of an archeological discovery from the Medo-Persian Empire period, and it is called a Faravahar. The top man half actually represents Marduk, the creator God from the time of Nimrod in Babylon, and the bottom wings symbolize Assur (his believed wife), the goddess of fertility, also known as the queen of the heavens, who was heavily worshiped in Assyria. In the bible the Israelites worshipped them as Baal and Asherah.



Interestingly, this symbol still exists today, as the national symbol of Iran

It will make a big difference, properly identifying the first lion beast with Medio-Persia, as opposed to today’s traditional premise of Babylon.

The 2nd beast in the vision was a bear on its side with 3 ribs in its mouth, consuming much flesh, which would be the Grecian Empire led by Alexander the Great

Daniel 7:5 “And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: ‘Arise, devour much flesh!’

An important concept to recognize about these sequential empires is that each subsequent empire consumes most of the geographical territory of the previous empire, plus more. Greece was located off to the northwest side of the Medio-Persian Empire (bear on its side), and it consumed the territories of the 3 previous empires of 1st Assyria, 2nd Babylon, and 3rd Medio-Persia (representing the 3 ribs in its mouth). Alexander the Great consumed much flesh (lives) in his conquests. More than did the conquests of the previous 3 empires.

Today’s tradition defines the 3rd beast as the Grecian Empire, and the 4th Terrifying beast then becomes the Roman Empire, and subsequently, many today still watch for a revived Roman Empire. But as we will discover, there is another Empire in history that was even larger than the Roman Empire, existed for a longer period of time, and has been ignored. The Islamic empire is the 3rd beast of Daniel's vision, and will explain why it best fits the clues momentarily. This 3rd beast of Islam will help explain the 4-Horsemen.

Danial 7:6 “After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.

First, we need to explain why tradition misleads Greece as the 3rd beast. The Early church had identified Babylon as the 1st beast, and therefore, the sequence dictated Media-Persia as the 2nd and Greece as the 3rd. To explain the clues of the 4 heads and wings, they alter history a little, by stating that Alexander’s empire was divided into 4 parts after his death, representing the 4 heads, and the 4 wings representing the speed of the Empire’s development. They got away with altering historical facts, as the masses were not educated enough to know better. Remember, Daniel was told to seal his vision until the time of the end when knowledge was increased. Knowledge is increased, and Alexander’s empire was not divided into 4-parts after his death, but was actually divided into 13 parts, as shown in Today’s historical map below. Two of the parts are biblically prominent, defined in Daniel Chapter 11, as the king of the North – Antigonos (Rust-Red area below) and the king of the South – Ptolemais (yellow area below). The remaining color parts are the other 11 divisions of the Grecian empire.



The Roman Empire was next in sequence, and the Early Church scholars assumed the Romans to be the Terrifying 4th beast, but Rome wasn’t for two major reasons. First, and most importantly, the Roman Empire was not an Idolic empire for three quarters of its existence as defined by the previous Idolic beast Empires. It was a Christian Empire for the vast majority of its existence. Therefore, it does not conform to the Idolic Beast criteria. Remember, Revelation 17:8 indicates the beast that was, is not, and will come again. The Roman Empire is the empire that is not a beast empire. The other reason is geographic. Rome only conquered a small portion of the Geographical regions of the previous two empires, and didn’t even hold that small portion, called Parthia, for very long. The Romans lost to the Parthians. The Roman Empire consisted mostly of areas in western Europe and areas around the Mediterranean Sea. The Roman Empire did not consume the regional Territories, as the previous Empires did

For us to find the 3rd beast empire defined in Daniel 7:6, we need to look beyond the Roman Empire, to the next major empire, which will support the clues of 4 heads and 4 wings very well.

Danial 7:6 “After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.

In the 7th AD century, the Islamic Empire would rapidly come into existence over a period of a few decades, and would consume all the Geographic regions of the 2nd Grecian Empire. Over the coming centuries, it would spread like the 4-winds (4-wings) to every corner of the world. During this time, Islam would be religiously governed by 4 major Caliphate periods (4 heads of dominion).

Rashidum Caliphate (AD 632 – 661) Note: Founding propet Muhammad died in AD 632

• Umayyad Caliphate (AD 661 – 750)
• Abbasid Caliphate (AD 750 – 1517)
• Ottoman Caliphate (AD 1517 – 1924). After WWI, when the Ottoman Caliphate was disbanded, as they had sided with Germany during the 1st World War.

While the Caliphate dominion does not exist today, it is Islam's desire to religiously reestablish the Caliphate, as we recently witnessed with ISIS. For the time, religious division (Sunni and Shite) stands in the way, until the coming time of the little horn, 8th King, who Muslims believe is the coming return of their Prophet Mohammad. Ironically, they believe Jesus (also a Prophet in their teachings) will also return with Mohammad. It almost sounds like the makings of the Antichrist and False Prophet in Christianity. Islam could be the wounded head with the fall of the Ottoman Empire, found in Revelation 13:3.

Continued on next Post

 

[BereanBride]

Realignment of Daniel chapter 7

Daniel had a vision of 4-animal beasts outlined in Daniel Chapter 7. Today’s understanding of them is based on the traditional understanding developed by the early church. In fairness, early scholars developed it based on what they knew at the time. But History wasn’t complete, and they did not know what was to come, which would have altered their understanding. They began by assuming the 4-beasts of the vision were the same empires as those of Nebuchadnezzar’s statue, aligning the first beast, the lion with eagle wings, with Nebuchadnezzar’s Babylonian empire, based on the Lion’s Gate of Babylon. This is where the misalignment of Daniel’s beast vision began, and why we may have missed understanding the 4-Horsemen.

At the time of Daniel's vision, Babylon was in the final moments of its empire's reign. Nebuchadnezzar has passed away, and Belshazzar was king, as Daniel 7:1 states. These 4 beasts empires were to come after the Babylonian Empire, beginning with the Medo-Persian Empire that soon conquered Babylon. The description of the Lion beast is as follows.

Daniel 7: 4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle’s wings. I watched till its wings were plucked off; and it was lifted up from the earth and made to stand on two feet like a man, and a man’s heart was given to it.

Here is a picture of an archeological discovery from the Medo-Persian Empire period, and it is called a Faravahar. The top man half actually represents Marduk, the creator God from the time of Nimrod in Babylon, and the bottom wings symbolize Assur (his believed wife), the goddess of fertility, also known as the queen of the heavens, who was heavily worshiped in Assyria. In the bible the Israelites worshipped them as Baal and Asherah.

View attachment 287275

Here is a picture of an archeological discovery from the Medo-Persian Empire period, and it is called a Faravahar. The top man half actually represents Marduk, the creator God from the time of Nimrod in Babylon, and the bottom wings symbolize Assur (his believed wife), the goddess of fertility, also known as the queen of the heavens, who was heavily worshiped in Assyria. In the bible the Israelites worshipped them as Baal and Asherah.

View attachment 287276

Interestingly, this symbol still exists today, as the national symbol of Iran

It will make a big difference, properly identifying the first lion beast with Medio-Persia, as opposed to today’s traditional premise of Babylon.

The 2nd beast in the vision was a bear on its side with 3 ribs in its mouth, consuming much flesh, which would be the Grecian Empire led by Alexander the Great

Daniel 7:5 “And suddenly another beast, a second, like a bear. It was raised up on one side, and had three ribs in its mouth between its teeth. And they said thus to it: ‘Arise, devour much flesh!’

An important concept to recognize about these sequential empires is that each subsequent empire consumes most of the geographical territory of the previous empire, plus more. Greece was located off to the northwest side of the Medio-Persian Empire (bear on its side), and it consumed the territories of the 3 previous empires of 1st Assyria, 2nd Babylon, and 3rd Medio-Persia (representing the 3 ribs in its mouth). Alexander the Great consumed much flesh (lives) in his conquests. More than did the conquests of the previous 3 empires.

Today’s tradition defines the 3rd beast as the Grecian Empire, and the 4th Terrifying beast then becomes the Roman Empire, and subsequently, many today still watch for a revived Roman Empire. But as we will discover, there is another Empire in history that was even larger than the Roman Empire, existed for a longer period of time, and has been ignored. The Islamic empire is the 3rd beast of Daniel's vision, and will explain why it best fits the clues momentarily. This 3rd beast of Islam will help explain the 4-Horsemen.

Danial 7:6 “After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.

First, we need to explain why tradition misleads Greece as the 3rd beast. The Early church had identified Babylon as the 1st beast, and therefore, the sequence dictated Media-Persia as the 2nd and Greece as the 3rd. To explain the clues of the 4 heads and wings, they alter history a little, by stating that Alexander’s empire was divided into 4 parts after his death, representing the 4 heads, and the 4 wings representing the speed of the Empire’s development. They got away with altering historical facts, as the masses were not educated enough to know better. Remember, Daniel was told to seal his vision until the time of the end when knowledge was increased. Knowledge is increased, and Alexander’s empire was not divided into 4-parts after his death, but was actually divided into 13 parts, as shown in Today’s historical map below. Two of the parts are biblically prominent, defined in Daniel Chapter 11, as the king of the North – Antigonos (Rust-Red area below) and the king of the South – Ptolemais (yellow area below). The remaining color parts are the other 11 divisions of the Grecian empire.

View attachment 287277

The Roman Empire was next in sequence, and the Early Church scholars assumed the Romans to be the Terrifying 4th beast, but Rome wasn’t for two major reasons. First, and most importantly, the Roman Empire was not an Idolic empire for three quarters of its existence as defined by the previous Idolic beast Empires. It was a Christian Empire for the vast majority of its existence. Therefore, it does not conform to the Idolic Beast criteria. Remember, Revelation 17:8 indicates the beast that was, is not, and will come again. The Roman Empire is the empire that is not a beast empire. The other reason is geographic. Rome only conquered a small portion of the Geographical regions of the previous two empires, and didn’t even hold that small portion, called Parthia, for very long. The Romans lost to the Parthians. The Roman Empire consisted mostly of areas in western Europe and areas around the Mediterranean Sea. The Roman Empire did not consume the regional Territories, as the previous Empires did

For us to find the 3rd beast empire defined in Daniel 7:6, we need to look beyond the Roman Empire, to the next major empire, which will support the clues of 4 heads and 4 wings very well.

Danial 7:6 “After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.

In the 7th AD century, the Islamic Empire would rapidly come into existence over a period of a few decades, and would consume all the Geographic regions of the 2nd Grecian Empire. Over the coming centuries, it would spread like the 4-winds (4-wings) to every corner of the world. During this time, Islam would be religiously governed by 4 major Caliphate periods (4 heads of dominion).

Rashidum Caliphate (AD 632 – 661) Note: Founding propet Muhammad died in AD 632

• Umayyad Caliphate (AD 661 – 750)
• Abbasid Caliphate (AD 750 – 1517)
• Ottoman Caliphate (AD 1517 – 1924). After WWI, when the Ottoman Caliphate was disbanded, as they had sided with Germany during the 1st World War.

While the Caliphate dominion does not exist today, it is Islam's desire to religiously reestablish the Caliphate, as we recently witnessed with ISIS. For the time, religious division (Sunni and Shite) stands in the way, until the coming time of the little horn, 8th King, who Muslims believe is the coming return of their Prophet Mohammad. Ironically, they believe Jesus (also a Prophet in their teachings) will also return with Mohammad. It almost sounds like the makings of the Antichrist and False Prophet in Christianity. Islam could be the wounded head with the fall of the Ottoman Empire, found in Revelation 13:3.

Continued on next Post

 

[BereanBride]

Understanding division is important when we look at Nebuchadnezzar's statue. Our correct understanding is that the Head of gold represents Babylon, the chest and arms of silver represent Medio-Persia, and the belly and thighs of Bronze represent the Grecian Empire. But notice that our bodies are split into legs above the thighs. The Grecian Empire is represented as being whole at the belly and then splits into 2, the major components of the Kings of the North and South, as the thighs. The 2 legs of Iron are already separated from the beginning (Empire inception). Which is exactly what happened with the formation of the Islamic Empire, and still exists today via Religious Ideology divisions. The last part of the Statue is the feet and 10 toes of Iron and Clay. These feet and 10 toes are Daniel’s 4th terrifying beast and is yet to come, but will come within Islam. Does today’s headline news seem a little more important?



Going to Revelation Chapter 17 with what we have learned, we can apply our new wisdom, understanding that mountains are symbolic of Empires that rise and fall.



Revelation 17: 9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition



Sequential…………………………………………………………………………………8 Kings

7 Mountian (Empires)…………5 Statue Elements, Daniel 2……………(Daniel 7 Beasts Vision)

1. Assyrian…………………………...Not Represented…………………………….1st Sargon of Akkad

2. Egyptian…………………………..Not Represented…………………………….2nd Pharoh

3. Babylonian………………………Head of Gold…………………………………...3rd Nebuchadnezzar

4. Medio-Persian………………….Chest & Arms of Silver……………………..4th Cyrus the Great (1st Lion)

5. Grecian…………………………… Belly & Thighs of Bronze………………….5th Alexander Great (2nd Bear)

6. Roman - Christianity is not of ‘the Beast that was, now is not’…......6th Caesar (5 fallen above, 1 is)

7. Islamic……………………………...Legs of Iron……………………………………..7th Muhammad (3rd Leopard)

Ten Nation(Caliph Alliance)….Feet & 10-toes of Iron & Clay…………..8th Antichrist (4th Terrifying - Little Horn - 8th king is of the 7th)



I spent 5 years living and working in the Middle East from 2010 to 2015. During that time, I worked with a very devout Muslim Colleague, who felt it was his mission to convert me to his faith. He was a nice person, and I needed to maintain a good, close working relationship without being rude about his efforts. During our social times, I would politely divert the conversation efforts away from the Koran by asking questions about the history of Islam and how it came to be. I learned some interesting things that seemed to align with the first 2 horsemen of Revelation, but it was speculation at the time, as I couldn’t find anything that aligned with the 3rd and 4th horsemen, until around 2014 when ISIS declared itself a Caliphate and became daily news. Was it possible that the first 2 horsemen were the beginning, and the last 2 were the ending, with a time gap in between, similar to the time gap between the 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel? I began researching the history of Islam via a book written by Sayed Ali Asgher Razwy, called ‘A Restatement of the History of Islam and Muslims’. Sayed is a renowned Muslim Historian with numerous publications. His book was his dream fulfillment, intending to present and correct numerous myths and legends that had become part of Muslim History. What is particularly nice about this book is that, as he goes through the events of Islamic history, he quotes the writings of numerous Western and Muslim well-known historians, providing a historical comparison. In the interest of time, we are not going to get deep into Muslim History, but if you wish, the source of what is presented here, the book is free online at: https://al-islam.org/restatement-history-islam-and-muslims-sayyid-ali-asghar-razwy. Yes, it is on a Muslim library site, but it won’t harm your computer.

The first thing that caught my attention was the sword given to the first 2nd Horsemen,

Revelation 6:3 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come [b]and see.” 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.

Like most, I assumed this sword was somehow symbolic of the future prophetic use of modern weaponry, as we don’t fight with swords in modern-day warfare. But what I learned is that there was an actual sword given to Islam’s greatest warrior, Muhammad’s cousin and bodyguard, Ali ibn Abi Talib, and without it in Ali’s hands, Islam would not exist today. Ali and this sword have very literally taken peace for the world to this very day. The sword called the ‘Sword of Zulfiqar’ is the most venerated sword in the Muslim world. You can read basics about this sword and Ali at this Link: https://swordbuy.co/the-zulfiqar-sword-history-significance-and-legacy/. In the interest of reading space, you can Google ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib’, to learn more about Muhammad’s cousin, the battles, and why the sword is so important to this scripture.

One thing of note about Ali from Sayed's book is that Ali was a stocky fighter covered with red hair, wore a red battle vest, and it is a Muslim belief that he was a direct descendant of Jacob’s brother Esau (the one God hated, maybe this is why). This would align with the red horse symbology of the 2nd seal, red horse.

If Ali was symbolized by the Red Horse, then it might make sense that Muhammad could be symbolized by the white horse, and research supports this.

Revelation 6:2 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

Three clues, Jesus doesn’t appear to be generous with his clues, but it might be enough, based on the research.

Muhammad was a peace-seeking man and didn’t like fighting and war. The Koran and Hadith have a lot of dichotomies written throughout them. They have peaceful loving aspects, as well as hate and kill thy enemy aspects. The Koran and Hadith were not written by Muhammad, but a collection of his teachings and thoughts, developed by his followers well after his death. When Muhammad died, he didn’t have a rightful male heir. He had 2 faithful lieutenants, a right hand of force in his cousin Ali (kin), and a left hand of religious leadership in a non-related person named Abu Baker. Each had a significant following. It would appear Ali’s supporters would come to provide the hate and killing aspects, and the Abu Baker followers the more peaceful aspects, according to Islam’s holy books. Ali would become the father of the more radical Shia sect of Islam, and Abu Baker, the more moderate sect of the Sunnis. These sects would represent the religious divide within Islam, from its inception, through to our present day

 

[BereanBride]

In Sayed’s book, he describes how, as a boy, Muhammad refused to participate in violent tribal war games. A common sport of the day, to prove young men’s manhood and worthiness of leadership within the tribal families. Muhammad’s required participation was to hang back and retrieve arrows to supply those in the small skirmishes.

At the time of Muhammad’s youth, Arabia was Polytheistic, with a pantheon of gods being worshiped, and Mecca was the business center of making the idols that would be shipped all over the region. Idol making was the main business of Mecca, and when Muhammad began promoting his monotheistic cave visions, he became very disliked by the local merchants. He might have been killed outright except his uncle, who raised him, was the caretaker of the Kaaba, the center where Idol worship was formally conducted. Therefore, Mohammad was off limits to physical harm until his uncle passed away. By then, Muhammad had formed a family following that included his cousin Ali, whom he had raised. After Muhammad’s uncle’s death, the business community sought to harm Muhammad, and Ali became his bodyguard protector. The business community ultimately drove Muhammad and his family from Mecca, and they fled to Medina, where the exiled Jewish Community of Medina helped Ali form an army to fight their way back to Mecca. There would be several major skirmishes, and while Muhammad did not like violence, he knew the battles were necessary to overcome the polytheistic ideology of Arabia. Before Ali’s army set out to fight, Muhammad would review and encourage Ali’s troops, reviewing the troops as he carried a bow without arrows. He would not engage in the fights, and it would be Ali who led them to victories. With each victory, Muhammad’s following would increase until they became strong enough to ride triumphantly back into Mecca. Muhammad would eventually conquer the polytheist ideology in Arabia before his death. But his death led to an immediate split in his following. While Ali and family members spent a month burying and mourning Mohammad’s death in the desert, Abu Baker was busy back in Mecca acquiring signed commitments of leadership as the successor to Muhammad. This put the power of Islam in Abu Baker’s hands. Abu Baker only had to look toward the church in Rome to appreciate the wealth that could be obtained from a monotheistic religion and quickly set out to spread Islam throughout the Middle East, by force, when necessary, with the key objective of acquiring vast wealth for him and his key followers. Mohammad’s Islamic ideals were quickly corrupted in the name of greed and power. It was not long before Ali and his followers knew they needed to forcibly take back the leadership from Abu Baker, reinstituting Muhammad’s intended values, resulting in a major civil war within Islam. Ali would succeed, before he was eventually assassinated while praying in a mosque. But the seeds of religious division had been sown and would continue to grow for centuries, and are still growing today. One last note about Muhammad, Muslims believe him to be a direct descendant of Ishmael, while his cousin Ali is believed to be descended from Esau, whom God hated. But we are yet to find any genealogy records to prove either.

It is an Islamic traditional belief that Muhammad rode a small white horse known as al-Buraq on his midnight journey to Jerusalem as well as his Ascension to heaven. He set out to conquer polytheistic religious beliefs and succeeded with the crowned reverence of the Muslim world. In Greek, there are 2 different words used for a crown in the Bible. One is ‘Diadema’, referring to a king’s royal crown as Jesus would wear as ‘King of Kings’, and the other is ‘Stephanos’, referring to a victor’s crown. A banned wreath, awarded to conquerors or winners of games and conquests. The Greek scriptural word used for the crown given to the rider of the White horse was ‘Stephanos’. The crowned rider of the White Horse is not Jesus, King of Kings, but a conquer wearing a wreath. As a side note, the crowns given to some church faithful, such as the ‘Crown of righteousness’ referred to in 2 Timothy 4:8 or the crown of life in James 1:12, are also ‘Stephanos’, victor's wreaths. We do not potentially receive kings' crowns, which are reserved for Jesus.

While the white horseman appeared to be Muhammad and the Red Horseman, his cousin Ali, I could not find any understanding of the third black horse in history, until 2015, after ISIS came on the scene. Then a new possible understanding came to light. The Four Horsemen appeared to represent a beginning, the first two (witnesses) of White and Red, and the last two (witnesses) of Black and Pale Green, with a 1400-year gap in the middle, similar to the gap in Daniel’s 70 weeks.

Continued on next Post

 

[BereanBride]

Here are some excerpts from Sayad’s book. There are a lot more, but I couldn’t find everything or have the room to post them all. If you want further understanding, I suggest reading Sayad’s long book for free, online

From sections titled “Banu Hashim - Before the Birth of islam”: Mohammad’s descent from Ismael was a national privilege or fable (sic); but if the first steps of the pedigree are dark and doubtful (sic), he could produce many generations of pure and genuine nobility; he sprang from the tribe of Koreish and the family of Hashim, the most illustrious of the Arabs, the princes of Mecca, and the hereditary guardians of the Kaaba. (The Decline and Fall of the Roman Empire)

From the section titled “The Battles of Islam” (Note: Makkah is Mecca and the Quraysh is a merchant tribe of Mecca): Muhammad Mustafa, the Messenger of God, had to fight a series of battles in the defense of Islam from his new home in Medina. … Roughly speaking, the Prophet launched 80 campaigns during the ten years from his migration in A.D. 622 to his death in A.D. 632. Some of these campaigns were nothing more than reconnaissance missions.

From the section titled “The Treaty of Hudaybiyya”: The Treaty of Hudaybiyya was the prelude to the victory of Islam over the forces of paganism, polytheism, idolatry, ignorance, injustice, and exploitation.

From the section titled “The Conquest of Makkah”: The Muslim occupation of Mecca was virtually bloodless. The fiery Khalid bin Waleed killed a few people at the southern gate and was sharply reprimanded by Mohammed for doing so. (Sir John Glubb)

From the section titled “The Conquest of Makkah”: Eight years earlier, Muhammad had left Makkah as a fugitive with a price on his head, and now he was entering the same city as its conqueror. (The Great Arab Conquests)

From the section titled “The Birth of Ali ibn Abi Talib”: Ali was born on the 13th of Rajab of the 30th year of the Elephant (AD 600). His cousin, Muhammad, was now thirty years old.48 But when Ali was born, Muhammad, the future Messenger of God, came into the precincts of the Kaaba to greet him. He took the infant into his arms and dedicated him to the service of Allah. The future prophet must have known that the infant in his arms was someday going to be the nemesis of all idolaters and polytheists and of their gods and goddesses. When Ali grew up, he extirpated idolatry and polytheism from Arabia with his sword. Ali was destined to become the right arm of Islam and the shield and buckler of Muhammad, the Messenger of God. His destiny was inseparably linked with the destiny of Islam and the life of its Prophet. He was present at every juncture in the history of the new movement, and he played a stellar role in it.

From the section titled “The Battle of Badr”: The Battle of Badr was fought in the second year of Hijra, on the 17th of Ramadan, the ninth month of the Islamic calendar (March 15, 624). The Makkan army moved out of its camp early in the morning to meet the Muslims. The two armies ranged themselves in battle formation. The Prophet took a bow in his hand and walked between the lines dressing the rows of the Muslims. His last act before the battle began was to pray to God to grant victory to His humble slaves.

From the section titled “The Battle of Badr”: The leadership of the polytheists of Makkah was indeed permanently crippled at Badr. The hero responsible for this was Ali. He alone killed 22 Makkans, twelve of them being the leading members of the clan of Banu Umayya. The rest of the army of Islam killed another 27 pagans. Among the spoils of the Battle of Badr was a sword which was to become the most famous sword in the whole history of Islam. Its name was Dhul-Fiqar.

From the section titled “The Battle of Uhud”: The Prophet’s sword was called Dhu’l-Fiqar. A traditionalist told me that I. Abu Najih said, “Someone called out in the battle of Uhud: There is no sword but Dhu’l-Fiqar. And there is no hero like Ali.” (Muhammad Ibn Ishaq, The Life of the Messenger of God)

From the section titled “The Conquest of Khyber”: A third attack was led by Ali, whom Mohammed armed with his own scimitar, called Dhu’l-Fiqar, or the Trenchant. And here it may be well to give a traditional account of the person and character of Ali. He was of the middle height, but robust and square, and of prodigious strength. He had a smiling countenance, exceedingly florid, with a bushy beard. He was clad, they say, in a scarlet vest, over which was buckled a cuirass of steel. (Washington Irving, The Life of Mohammad)

From the section titled “The Conquest of Khyber”: Ali was no giant, but he made up for his lack of height by his great breadth and prodigious strength. Today he was formidable in a scarlet tunic over which he wore his shining breastplate and backplate. . . . In his right hand, he brandished Mohammed’s own scimitar, Dhu’l-Fiqar, which had been entrusted to him with the black banner. (R.V.C Bodley, The Messenger—The Life of Mohammed)

It is very challenging to be certain about prophecy fulfillment when you close its time of fulfillment, so I will be the first to admit the following is still speculative, but with the current events in Iran, it is becoming less speculative. Jesus told us to be watching, and that doesn’t mean we should expect we will get everything right as we do. It is our effort that counts.

We are all familiar with the black flags symbolic of ISIS, so let’s attempt to decipher the clues of the Black Horseman

Revelation 6:5 When He opened the third seal, I heard the third living creature say, “Come and see.” So I looked, and behold, a black horse, and he who sat on it had a pair of scales in his hand. 6 And I heard a voice in the midst of the four living creatures saying, “A quart of wheat for a denarius, and three quarts of barley for a denarius; and do not harm the oil and the wine.”

Again, 3 clues, not much, but maybe enough. The first is a pair of scales. Scales can represent a means of tangibly weighing something, but also intangibles like the scales of law and justice. The main goal of ISIS was the implementation of ‘Shia law’. Shai law is the implementation of a strict, repressive code of Islamic law, with severe consequences, as witnessed with ISIS. The implementation was repressive and created a collapse of the economic system in the areas of Iraq and Syria, which they controlled. It led to the displacement of millions of Muslims in refugee camps on an unprecedented scale in world history. Millions of Muslims are surviving on the black markets and world charities, for food, satisfying the second clue. As terrible as it was to watch for the Western World, it was confined to the aspects of the Muslim world, and did not affect the Oil of Judaism, nor the new wine of Christianity symbolized in the third clue. ISIS may have diminished in power and domain, but they are far from completely gone. I wish to make a special note here. Every book has a setting to the story, and the Bible’s setting is predominantly the Middle East, which is where our End-Times Prophecy watching should be focused. It is where the story began and where it will end. We shouldn’t be looking at America and England with replacement theology or the revival of a Roman Empire in Europe.

We will need to see if this theory holds as we move to the 4th Horsemen of Death and Hades.

Revelation 6:7 7 When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

When He opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth living creature saying, “Come and see.” 8 So I looked, and behold, a pale horse. And the name of him who sat on it was Death, and Hades followed with him. And power was given to them over a fourth of the earth, to kill with sword, with hunger, with death, and by the beasts of the earth.

The first thing to mention is I don’t think this has happened yet, but we might be on the verge of it. There is a huge clue in that power was given to them over a fourth of the earth. The Greek word for power used is exousia, and it means authority. More specifically, it refers to moral authority. In Islam, the Caliph oversees moral authority for the Muslim world.

According to the Pew Research Center (Census Data providers), Muslims as of 2020, represent 25.6% of the global population with approximately 2 billion Islamic faithful. Pew Research projects that by 2050, the Islamic population will be 2.8 billion or 30% of the Global population. This would equate to approximately 27% by 2030. Muslims presently make up a quarter of the world’s population. The Middle East conflict is front and center in the news. The straits of Hormuz are closed, and while the focus is on oil loss, there is something more vital to the world that is not being produced and shipped. The fertilizer needed to ensure the quantity of crops required to feed the world is not being produced and shipped as needed. Famines in various places will most likely be incurred as per the Olivet Discourse of Matthew 24 and the 4th Horseman.

As a note, the Greek word for beasts at the end of Revelation 6:8 is ‘therion’, which means an animal beast, but is also used metaphorically for a savage bestial man. Here beast is referring to the brutality of men killing in a savage manner, as we witnessed within ISIS. Also, commas were not used in ancient times, and the comma after death is probably erroneous, meaning the ending text should read ‘with death by the beasts (brutal men) of the earth (region or country).

 

[BereanBride]

Final Post of the series

If you have read this far, thank you for being a Berean. The 4 -Horseman might be challenging to accept, I agree. But if this is correct, then we are approaching the 6th seal rapidly, when I believe Jesus calls his Bride home. We should be watching for the reinstatement of the Islamic Caliph. This Caliph reinstatement has long been a desire of the president of Turkey, Tayyip Erdogan. His desire is to reform the Ottoman Empire. He is not seeking to do it militarily, but through the formation of a strategic alliance of nations in the Middle East, like the NATO alliance. The alliance would give him the means to establish a religious authority. To learn more about this, I would suggest Googling, ‘Does Erdogan want to restore the Ottoman Empire?’. I suspect this nation’s alliance would represent the 10 toes of Nebuchadnezzar’s statue. I question if the Middle East events of today are a precursor for Middle East Countries to perceive the need for a strategic alliance. We will need to watch and see.
In my posts about the coming Jubilee year, I showed that Isaac’s twin sons, Jacob and Esau, who wrestled in Rebekah’s womb, were born during the 40th Jubilee year, which began the Age of Law. Jacob’s lineage led to Christianity, and Esau’s lineage appears to have led to Islam. It appears Jesus is addressing these lineages, historically, in his message to the 7 churches (descended from Jacob), followed by the lineage outcome of Esau in the 7-seals. We find this when we view the overall context of the Bible, as opposed to a selective scripture view.
Now it is time to complete the Berean process and check the scriptures for yourself, to reach your own conclusions of which perspective, the traditional or the fresh perspective, best fits Jesus’s message. Don’t just believe or disbelieve what I’ve presented; research the whole of the scriptures for yourself and reach your own conclusions. As a side to the above, the fig tree parable is also a bit misunderstood

Fig Tree Parable
Some will make a point, Jesus told us no one knows the day or hour of his coming, but there is a difference between specific date setting and knowing the approximate time within a few years. After all, in Matthew 24, Jesus told us to be always watching, and in Matthew 24:32, Jesus gives the Parable of the Fig Tree as something to watch for.
Matthew 24:32 “Now learn this lesson from the fig tree: As soon as its twigs get tender and its leaves come out, you know that summer is near. 33 Even so, when you see all these things, you know that it[e] is near, right at the door. 34 Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened. 35 Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away
When Israel became a nation in 1948, scholars immediately equated Israel’s rebirth to the Fig Tree parable, with a 70-year generation for the completion of Jesus’s return. The 70 years ended in 2018, and still some say the generation could be 80 years (80 years is a rightful possibility, although a lot has to happen in the next 2 years). The issue is in the identification of Israel as the Fig Tree. To properly understand what the Fig Tree represents, we need to consider the complete scriptural context from when Jesus cursed the Fig Tree (Matthew 21:18) through when Jesus spoke the parable. Jesus cursed the Fig tree as he reentered Jerusalem the day after his Triumphant entry. Jesus also states the reason for the curse, ‘because it failed to bear fruit’. Jesus already knew what a confrontational day lay ahead, found in chapters 23 and 24 with the High Jewish Clergy. Jerusalem was the center of Israel's religious leadership. Jerusalem was what was not bearing fruit. When Israel became a country in 1948, Jerusalem was declared an international city, because both the Muslims and Israelites wanted it. Declaring Jerusalem an international city was supposed to end the conflict over Jerusalem's possession. The war of June 1967 changed that, as Israel took possession of Jerusalem. The year 1967 when the symbolic Fig Tree budded, and the 70-year generational end is 2037 (of possibly 2047).

 

[BereanBride]

Please ignore the double-posting of the 1st post, my apologies. I think it happened as I was having issues with picture insertion.

 

[tablet123]

Dan 7:1 In the first year of Belshazzar king of Babylon Daniel had a dream and visions of his head upon his bed: then he wrote the dream, and told the sum of the matters.
Dan 7:2 Daniel spake and said, I saw in my vision by night, and, behold, the four winds of the heaven strove upon the great sea.
Dan 7:3 And four great beasts came up from the sea, diverse one from another.

Daniel had a vision of 4 kingdoms that were different than each other.

Which are 4 ways of people and even though all 4 kingdoms operated by all 4 ways, 1 of those ways was their chief mode of operation.

Dan 7:4 The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

Babylon- lion, represents human religion, the occult.

Rode on eagle's wings the revelation of God because king Nebuchadnezzar acknowledged the God of Israel as the greatest God.

And proclaimed throughout his kingdom not to say anything amiss about Him or they would be cut in pieces and their house made a dunghill.

His son took the throne and blew it and the eagle's wings were plucked.

They would then be known as the kingdom of man.

Dan 7:5 And behold another beast, a second, like to a bear, and it raised up itself on one side, and it had three ribs in the mouth of it between the teeth of it: and they said thus unto it, Arise, devour much flesh.

Medo-Persia- bear, represents physical cruelty in war.

Raised up on on one side because Persia was the bigger influence.

3 ribs, 3 nations, probably Babylon, Lydia, and Egypt, who they conquered.

Dan 7:6 After this I beheld, and lo another, like a leopard, which had upon the back of it four wings of a fowl; the beast had also four heads; and dominion was given to it.

Greece- leopard, represents human wisdom.

4 wings of a fowl flew higher than other nations, higher mathematics, science, medicine, philosophy.

4 heads, 4 generals ruling the kingdom split in to 4 parts.

Dan 7:7 After this I saw in the night visions, and behold a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible, and strong exceedingly; and it had great iron teeth: it devoured and brake in pieces, and stamped the residue with the feet of it: and it was diverse from all the beasts that were before it; and it had ten horns.

Dan 7:23 Thus he said, The fourth beast shall be the fourth kingdom upon earth, which shall be diverse from all kingdoms, and shall devour the whole earth, and shall tread it down, and break it in pieces.

Roman Empire- iron, represents pushing for territory, world domination.

The 10 horns is the world split into 10 sections with a leader in each section that will cover the earth.

Which at that time all Caucasian nations and all nations taken over by them which will be in league together.

Bound by the new age christianity(1 Timothy 4:1-5, 2 Timothy 4:2-4).

Which they will influence the world.

Which is a Caucasian led plan that interprets the Bible and religions according to the occult and evolution, and they will evolve to be spiritual, and greater, and Jesus became an ascended master, and there is no personal God but they honor the God of forces the power of the Cosmos, and the New Age Christ is the next world teacher.

Dan 7:8 I considered the horns, and, behold, there came up among them another little horn, before whom there were three of the first horns plucked up by the roots: and, behold, in this horn were eyes like the eyes of man, and a mouth speaking great things.

The antichrist will come from the 10 horns which he will be of the new age.

Dan 7:11 I beheld then because of the voice of the great words which the horn spake: I beheld even till the beast was slain, and his body destroyed, and given to the burning flame.
Dan 7:12 As concerning the rest of the beasts, they had their dominion taken away: yet their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

The Roman Empire does not lose their physical dominion until Jesus puts down the world.

Babylon, Medo-Persia, and Greece, will never have physical dominion again but their lives were prolonged for a season and time.

Which means their ways of how they operated still remain.

Which they have not fallen yet.

And all 4 show up at the beast kingdom, Revelation 13.

So Islam and Arab nations will not have physical dominion and impact the world which the physical dominion is the Roman Empire.

The antichrist is of the new age which Islam would not accept.

Islam will not have any power and is not the beast kingdom.

Dan 2:31 Thou, O king, sawest, and behold a great image. This great image, whose brightness was excellent, stood before thee; and the form thereof was terrible.
Dan 2:32 This image's head was of fine gold, his breast and his arms of silver, his belly and his thighs of brass,
Dan 2:33 His legs of iron, his feet part of iron and part of clay.

Dan 2:34 Thou sawest till that a stone was cut out without hands, which smote the image upon his feet that were of iron and clay, and brake them to pieces.
Dan 2:35 Then was the iron, the clay, the brass, the silver, and the gold, broken to pieces together, and became like the chaff of the summer threshingfloors; and the wind carried them away, that no place was found for them: and the stone that smote the image became a great mountain, and filled the whole earth.

Dan 2:42 And as the toes of the feet were part of iron, and part of clay, so the kingdom shall be partly strong, and partly broken.

In chapter 2 it is the same 4 kingdoms.

The 10 toes is the 10 horns.

And all 4 kingdoms do not fall until Jesus hits the feet of the statue, iron, Roman Empire physical dominion.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
Rev 13:2 And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as the feet of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority.

All 4 kingdoms chief mode of operation show up at the beast kingdom.

The kingdom of man in it entirety.

The beast kingdom is Babylon in spirit which she represents human religion, the occult, and the kingdom of man which is what the beast kingdom is about.

A person either belongs to the kingdom of God or Babylon the kingdom of man.

The Roman Empire has the physical dominion and Islam and the Arab nations will not have any power or influence to promote their ways.

They will rebel against the new age but they will be plucked up by the roots.

Continued in next post

 

[tablet123]

Continued from above post

Rev 17:9 And here is the mind which hath wisdom. The seven heads are seven mountains, on which the woman sitteth.
Rev 17:10 And there are seven kings: five are fallen, and one is, and the other is not yet come; and when he cometh, he must continue a short space.
Rev 17:11 And the beast that was, and is not, even he is the eighth, and is of the seven, and goeth into perdition.

7 kingdoms.

5 are fallen

1. Egypt

2. Assyria

3. Babylon

4. Medo-Persia

5. Greece

1 is at the time John wrote Revelation

6. Roman Empire

1 is to come who will continue a short space

7. 10 horn kingdom who will rule for 3.5 years.

8. Beast, antichrist, who will rule for 3.5 years.

The 8th king is of the 7 kings because the devil influenced those kingdoms.

Rev 12:3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.

In chapter 12 the crowns are on the heads Satan in the spiritual realm deceiving people by the 7 kingdoms.

Rev 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.

In chapter 13 the crowns are on the horns Satan in the physical realm deceiving people as the antichrist.

Rev 13:3 And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast.

The 7th head, 10 horn kingdom, failed at providing peace and security for the world with major problems for when they say Peace and safety sudden destruction comes upon them.

During their operation Islam rebelled against their operation causing them to be devastated by nuclear weapons which 3 sections, 3 horns, will be plucked up by the roots.

The world was in despair, and lost hope for peace and safety on earth.

But the antichrist had a solution and restored order and gave them hope and the deadly wound was healed.

United Nations Agenda 21 for the 21st century which is a sustainability act.

They want to move all people in to the cities, and no development can happen outside city limits, and the people are the police force.

They want to give the people a microchip under the skin linked to satellite like a GPS tracking system for humans.

They can watch the people, and know their location, and if a crime happens they will know who was in the area, and how close they were to the crime scene.

This will cut out judges, lawyers, and the now known police force.

All information about the person will be on the chip including finances for it is the one world economic system.

Rev 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:
Rev 13:17 And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name.
Rev 13:18 Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is Six hundred threescore and six.

chi xi stigma
khee xee stig'-ma
The 22nd, 14th and an obsolete letter (G4742 as a cross) of the Greek alphabet (intermediate between the 5th and 6th), used as numbers; denoting respectively 600, 60 and 6; 666 as a numeral: - six hundred threescore and six.

stigma
stig'-mah
From a primary word στίζω stizō (to “stick”, that is, prick); a mark incised or punched (for recognition of ownership), that is, (figuratively) scar of service: - mark.

The mark of the beast is something stuck under something and since it is given to a person it is stuck under their skin.

The New Age Christ's agenda is there is no personal God to help mankind but their technology can help them to deter crime, and have peace.

 

[BereanBride]

Thank you for your comments and for taking the time to read my posts. We are obviously of different opinions, which is fine. You wish to stick to the traditional understandings (although I have never seen it supported in quite the way you have). Today's traditional understandings of Daniel's vision of the four beasts are from the 2nd-century teachings of the early church. Sticking with traditional understandings involves ignoring a key scripture given to Daniel, which states that the understanding of his visions would be sealed until the time of the end, when knowledge would be increased

Daniel 12:4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”

God even repeats in verse 9, as a point of emphasis

Daniel 12:9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.

The understanding of Daniel's book was sealed until the End Times, and sticking with 1800-year-old traditional beliefs may not be prudent. But it is challenging for people to let go of tradition, despite the warning, I fully appreciate. But we can't ignore what scripture tells us just because it doesn't support what we have been traditionally taught.

But God knew we are stubborn and provided us with another warning in Isaiah, about closing our minds to things like Daniel 12:4

Isaiah 6:9 He said, “Go and tell this people: ‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’
10 Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull, and close their eyes. Otherwise they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.”

We might not feel Isaiah is pertinent to this discussion, but if we look at Jesus's parable of the 10 virgins, we should note that the virgins are asleep just before the bridegroom comes. All the Virgins represent the church in the End Times (unbelievers would not be waiting for their Bridegroom).

Matthew 25:5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

What happens when we are asleep, our eyes are shut, and our ears dulled. Basically, the receptors of our minds are closed. We are in a state of closed-mindedness. Isaiah further notes 'calloused hearts'. Calloused hearts represent stubbornness to change, particularly religiously. Think that's a stretch, here's what AI said when asked if a calloused heart represented stubbornness.

AI,
Yes, a calloused heart is a profound representation of stubbornness, particularly in a spiritual or emotional context. It signifies an obstinate, hardened, and insensitive state that resists change, correction, or emotional connection.

• Willful Resistance (Obstinacy): A calloused heart is often described as a "stiff-necked" condition, which is a conscious, repeated refusal to submit or change, similar to the biblical example of Pharaoh hardening his heart.

Please don't take it as I'm calling you stubborn; I'm simply clarifying the meanings within Isaiah's scripture, and it appears Jesus has taken an Isaiah reference to the End Times church state. The good news from Jesus is that we awake.

The awakening is what I'm trying to present, stepping away from loosely supported or inaccurately understood concepts based on ingrained tradition. The Grecian Empire was not broken into 4 parts, as modern-day historians will tell you, and I have shown in the map I enclosed. What I presented has been reviewed by theological scholars and a Biblical Historian, and the consensus was that it was enlightening.

I would like to encourage you to look at it again, and consider it with an open mind

One last point, to properly understand Revelation, the book of Daniel must be properly understood (Particularly his Beast visions). Daniel's visions are foundational to Revelation.

 

[greenonions]

Today’s tradition defines the 3rd beast as the Grecian Empire, and the 4th Terrifying beast then becomes the Roman Empire, and subsequently, many today still watch for a revived Roman Empire. But as we will discover, there is another Empire in history that was even larger than the Roman Empire, existed for a longer period of time, and has been ignored. The Islamic empire is the 3rd beast of Daniel's vision, and will explain why it best fits the clues momentarily. This 3rd beast of Islam will help explain the 4-Horsemen.

Danial 7:6 “After this I looked, and there was another, like a leopard, which had on its back four wings of a bird. The beast also had four heads, and dominion was given to it.

First, we need to explain why tradition misleads Greece as the 3rd beast. The Early church had identified Babylon as the 1st beast, and therefore, the sequence dictated Media-Persia as the 2nd and Greece as the 3rd. To explain the clues of the 4 heads and wings, they alter history a little, by stating that Alexander’s empire was divided into 4 parts after his death, representing the 4 heads, and the 4 wings representing the speed of the Empire’s development. They got away with altering historical facts, as the masses were not educated enough to know better. Remember, Daniel was told to seal his vision until the time of the end when knowledge was increased. Knowledge is increased, and Alexander’s empire was not divided into 4-parts after his death, but was actually divided into 13 parts, as shown in Today’s historical map below. Two of the parts are biblically prominent, defined in Daniel Chapter 11, as the king of the North – Antigonos (Rust-Red area below) and the king of the South – Ptolemais (yellow area below). The remaining color parts are the other 11 divisions of the Grecian empire.

View attachment 287277

There were four Greek kingdoms in 301 BC.

Diadochi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Daniel 8 tells us that Greece is the kingdom after Medo-Persia and that four kingdoms would arise from that nation.

Daniel8:20 NKJV The ram which you saw, having the two horns—they are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the male goat is the kingdom of Greece. The large horn that is between its eyes is the first king. 22 As for the broken horn and the four that stood up in its place, four kingdoms shall arise out of that nation, but not with its power.

 

[BereanBride]

There were four Greek kingdoms in 301 BC.

Diadochi - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Daniel 8 tells us that Greece is the kingdom after Medo-Persia and that four kingdoms would arise from that nation.

Daniel8:20 NKJV The ram which you saw, having the two horns—they are the kings of Media and Persia. 21 And the male goat is the kingdom of Greece. The large horn that is between its eyes is the first king. 22 As for the broken horn and the four that stood up in its place, four kingdoms shall arise out of that nation, but not with its power.

In regard to your reference to Daniel 8:20-22 as support that the ancient Grecian empire of Alexander the Great divides into 4 kindoms, I wish to point out that the Ram-Goat war vision of Daniel 8 is an end-times event, as noted 3 verses before your reference verses, as well as 1 verse before. (as explained by Gabriel)

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood, and when he came I was afraid and fell on my face; but he said to me, “Understand, son of man, that the vision refers to the time of the end.”
Daniel 8:19 And he said, “Look, I am making known to you what shall happen in the latter time of the indignation; for at the appointed time the end shall be

All of chapter 8 will happen in the End Times. It has been a busy day. I will respond to the rest tomorrow

 

[greenonions]

In regard to your reference to Daniel 8:20-22 as support that the ancient Grecian empire of Alexander the Great divides into 4 kindoms, I wish to point out that the Ram-Goat war vision of Daniel 8 is an end-times event, as noted 3 verses before your reference verses, as well as 1 verse before. (as explained by Gabriel)

Daniel 8:17 So he came near where I stood, and when he came I was afraid and fell on my face; but he said to me, “Understand, son of man, that the vision refers to the time of the end.”
Daniel 8:19 And he said, “Look, I am making known to you what shall happen in the latter time of the indignation; for at the appointed time the end shall be

All of chapter 8 will happen in the End Times. It has been a busy day. I will respond to the rest tomorrow

I think time of the end just means a long time in the future in this case.

Daniel 10:20-11:4 repeat the same message that the Persian empire will be defeated by Greece, and it will be split toward the four winds. One additional detail is that Daniel 11:2 talks about three more kings, in other words, after the current king of Persia, so not some unrelated Persian kingdom in the future.

 

[BereanBride]

I think that is a view of convenience, not wishing to let go of an ingrained traditional belief, which is a tough challenge, I will admit. I used to be of the same beliefs. You are right, it is a long time in the future. The Grecian empire began only a couple of hundred years after Daniel's Vision. That is not a very long time in the future when speaking in Biblical terms. And it certainly isn't the 'Time of Indignation' as specifically identified.

Moving on to how the Grecian Empire was divided, the map you refer to says in AD 300, there were 5 major kingdoms/Empires and 3 others (5 is not 4, nor is 8). The number of divisions is very fluid during the Diadochi and Hellenistic periods after Alexanders death in 523 BC. There was no long-term static period of 4 divisions for an extended period of time.

This map depicts the kingdoms of the Diadochi c. 301 BC, after the Battle of Ipsus. The five kingdoms of the Diadochi were: Kingdom of Ptolemy I, Soter Kingdom of Cassander, Kingdom of Lysimachus, Empire of Seleucus I, Nicator, Kingdom of Epirus Other Carthaginian Empire, Roman Republic, Greek colonies

Reading your Wikipedia reference, we find the following, which I cut and pasted (note I added the numbers for counting clarity). This is how the Grecian Empire was initially divided after Alexander's death. Apologies if I miscounted 13 versus 12 in my initial writing

Without a clear successor, Alexander's generals quickly began to dispute the rule of his empire………………. Perdiccas, summoned a council of the great men of Alexander's court to appoint satraps for the parts of the Empire in the partition of Babylon. 1.Ptolemy received Egypt; 2. Laomedon received Syria and Phoenicia; 3. Philotas took Cilicia; 4. Peithon took Media; 5. Antigonus received Phrygia, Lycia and Pamphylia; 6. Asander received Caria; 7.Menander received Lydia; 8.Lysimachus received Thrace; 9. Leonnatus received Hellespontine: Phrygia; and 10.Neoptolemus had Armenia, 11. Macedon and the rest of Greece were to be jointly ruled by, Antipater and Craterus, while Alexander's former secretary, 12. Eumenes of Cardia, was to receive Cappadocia and Paphlagonia.

The Diadochi civil wars reduced the division of 12 to 3 major kingdoms for the next 200 plus years, Antigonus in the Northern Region, Ptolemy in the Southern Region, and Seleucus in the Eastern Region.

The Battle of Ipsus (301 BC)

The Battle of Ipsus at the end of the Fourth War of the Diadochi finalized the breakup of the unified Empire of Alexander. Antigonus I Monophthalmus and his son Demetrius I of Macedon were pitted against the coalition of three other companions of Alexander: Cassander, ruler of Macedon; Lysimachus, ruler of Thrace; and Seleucus I Nicator, ruler of Babylonia and Persia. Antigonus was killed, but his son Demetrius took a large part of Macedonia and continued his father's dynasty. After the death of Cassander and Lysimachus, following one another in fairly rapid succession, the Ptolemies and Seleucids controlled the vast majority of Alexander's former empire, with a much smaller segment controlled by the Antigonid dynasty until the 1st century.

 

[BereanBride]

If you don't mind, I wish to come back to the challenge of discerning traditional understandings. Not everything is in error. This is just one area, and another is found in the understanding of Revelation (specifically, the traditional devised term, 'The 7-year Tribulation period' versus the Scripturally defined period of 'Daniel's 70th week of 7 years.' I will explain in a moment, but first, we should recognize how Tradition deceived the Jewish people. Tradition had taught them that the coming Messiah would be their savior king, ignoring the scriptures defining him as a suffering servant who would die for our sins. The lesson is we shouldn't ignore scriptures that appear contrary to a traditional teaching. The Jewish people were challenged by aspects of traditional teachings, and it appears we are also. We have to take into account all pertinent scriptures, even when they don't fit with tradition, and are therefore being ignored in teachings

The specific example to the Book of Daniel is found in Daniel 12:4, and God even repeated it in 12:9. Exclamation punctuation did not exist at the time of the original writing, and repetition was a means of exclamatory emphasis, to something very important, not to be ignored.

Daniel 12:4 But you, Daniel, roll up and seal the words of the scroll until the time of the end. Many will go here and there to increase knowledge.”
Daniel 12:9 And he said, “Go your way, Daniel, for the words are closed up and sealed till the time of the end. 10 Many shall be purified, made white, and refined, but the wicked shall do wickedly; and none of the wicked shall understand, but the wise shall understand.
Clearly, God knew there would be traditional misunderstandings in the distant future, before knowledge was increased, providing us with a warning.

God also knew how stubborn we can be and provided us with another warning in Isaiah, about closing our minds to things like Daniel 12:4. God wasn't just telling this to the Israelites, but all generations of man. We are no different

Isaiah 6:9 He said, “Go and tell this people: ‘Be ever hearing, but never understanding; be ever seeing, but never perceiving.’
10 Make the heart of this people calloused; make their ears dull, and close their eyes. Otherwise, they might see with their eyes, hear with their ears, understand with their hearts, and turn and be healed.”

If we look at Jesus's parable of the 10 virgins, we will note that the virgins are asleep just before the bridegroom comes. All the Virgins represent the church in the End Times (unbelievers would not be waiting for their Bridegroom).

Matthew 25:5 The bridegroom was a long time in coming, and they all became drowsy and fell asleep.

What happens when we are asleep, our eyes are shut, and our ears are dulled. Basically, the receptors of our minds are closed. We are in a state of closed-mindedness. Isaiah further notes 'calloused hearts'. Calloused hearts represent stubbornness to change, particularly religiously. Think that's a stretch, here's what AI said when asked if a calloused heart represented stubbornness.

AI,
Yes, a calloused heart is a profound representation of stubbornness, particularly in a spiritual or emotional context. It signifies an obstinate, hardened, and insensitive state that resists change, correction, or emotional connection.

• Willful Resistance (Obstinacy): A calloused heart is often described as a "stiff-necked" condition, which is a conscious, repeated refusal to submit or change, similar to the biblical example of Pharaoh hardening his heart.

Please don't take it as I'm calling you or anyone else stubborn; I'm simply clarifying the meanings within Isaiah's scripture, and it appears Jesus has taken an Isaiah reference to the End Times church state. The good news from Jesus is that we awake.

The awakening is what I'm trying to present, stepping away from loosely supported or inaccurately understood concepts based on ingrained tradition. The Grecian Empire was not broken into 4 parts, as modern-day historians may traditionally try to tell us. What I presented has been reviewed by theological scholars and a Biblical Historian, and the consensus was that it was enlightening.

I mentioned above 'The 7-year traditional Tribulation Period, ' versus 'Daniel's 70th week of 7 years'. The traditional concept has generated centuries of arguments and confusion over Pre, Post, Mid-Tribulation, and Prewrath Rapture. The arguments have not led to a conclusion, but only caused division within the church. A book in which Jesus states 1:3 Blessed is the one who reads aloud the words of this prophecy, and blessed are those who hear it and take to heart what is written in it, because the time is near. The book is meant to be a blessing, and there is so much Division that most clergy won't touch it from the Pulpit. Let's stop and think, who is the author of deception? Who benefits from cleverly dividing the church?

So let me leave you with a scripture to think about, concerning Daniel's 70th week of 7 years.

Daniel 24: “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed for your people and your holy city to finish transgression, to put an end to sin, to atone for wickedness, to bring in everlasting righteousness, to seal up vision and prophecy, and to anoint the Most Holy Place.

Daniel's 70th week is decreed for the Jewish people and Jerusalem exclusively, just like the previous 69 weeks. If God didn't mean it exactly as it was written, he could have left out those bolded words of designation: “Seventy ‘sevens’ are decreed to finish Transgression.......

'For your people and your holy city' was included with specific intent. If we look at Revelation, we will find that Chapters 11-14 are exclusively about the 'Jewish people and Jerusalem'. This is the 7-year period, which is a subset of what Tradition defines as the 7 yr Tribulation. I plan to provide a deeper review of this in the future thread, and am only pointing it out now as another example of how tradition can be misleading and why Jesus referred to the 10 virgins being asleep. If Jesus said we are asleep, then we must be, and the question becomes how and why. This is the meaning behind, "He who has an eye let them see, he who has an ear let them hear."

I hope you begin to take it to heart

 

[ChristRoseFromTheDead]

why Jesus referred to the 10 virgins being asleep. If Jesus said we are asleep, then we must be, and the question becomes how and why. This is the meaning behind, "He who has an eye let them see, he who has an ear let them hear."

When Jesus said all virgins slept, he meant that all of them physically died. The 5 wise virgins get resurrected at the bridegroom's return, but the foolish 5 have to wait until the 2nd resurrection, at which point they are rejected.

 

[BereanBride]

This is a different take than I have ever heard before. Where did this originate from, if you don't mind my asking, and how does the Raprure fit into this premise

 

[Reddogs]

Understanding division is important when we look at Nebuchadnezzar's statue. Our correct understanding is that the Head of gold represents Babylon, the chest and arms of silver represent Medio-Persia, and the belly and thighs of Bronze represent the Grecian Empire. But notice that our bodies are split into legs above the thighs. The Grecian Empire is represented as being whole at the belly and then splits into 2, the major components of the Kings of the North and South, as the thighs. The 2 legs of Iron are already separated from the beginning (Empire inception). Which is exactly what happened with the formation of the Islamic Empire, and still exists today via Religious Ideology divisions. The last part of the Statue is the feet and 10 toes of Iron and Clay. These feet and 10 toes are Daniel’s 4th terrifying beast and is yet to come, but will come within Islam. Does today’s headline news seem a little more important?



Going to Revelation Chapter 17 with what we have learned, we can apply our new wisdom, understanding that mountains are symbolic of Empires that rise and fall.



Revelation 17: 9 “Here is the mind which has wisdom: The seven heads are seven mountains on which the woman sits. 10 There are also seven kings. Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come. And when he comes, he must continue a short time. 11 The beast that was, and is not, is himself also the eighth, and is of the seven, and is going to perdition



Sequential…………………………………………………………………………………8 Kings

7 Mountian (Empires)…………5 Statue Elements, Daniel 2……………(Daniel 7 Beasts Vision)

1. Assyrian…………………………...Not Represented…………………………….1st Sargon of Akkad

2. Egyptian…………………………..Not Represented…………………………….2nd Pharoh

3. Babylonian………………………Head of Gold…………………………………...3rd Nebuchadnezzar

4. Medio-Persian………………….Chest & Arms of Silver……………………..4th Cyrus the Great (1st Lion)

5. Grecian…………………………… Belly & Thighs of Bronze………………….5th Alexander Great (2nd Bear)

6. Roman - Christianity is not of ‘the Beast that was, now is not’…......6th Caesar (5 fallen above, 1 is)

7. Islamic……………………………...Legs of Iron……………………………………..7th Muhammad (3rd Leopard)

Ten Nation(Caliph Alliance)….Feet & 10-toes of Iron & Clay…………..8th Antichrist (4th Terrifying - Little Horn - 8th king is of the 7th)



I spent 5 years living and working in the Middle East from 2010 to 2015. During that time, I worked with a very devout Muslim Colleague, who felt it was his mission to convert me to his faith. He was a nice person, and I needed to maintain a good, close working relationship without being rude about his efforts. During our social times, I would politely divert the conversation efforts away from the Koran by asking questions about the history of Islam and how it came to be. I learned some interesting things that seemed to align with the first 2 horsemen of Revelation, but it was speculation at the time, as I couldn’t find anything that aligned with the 3rd and 4th horsemen, until around 2014 when ISIS declared itself a Caliphate and became daily news. Was it possible that the first 2 horsemen were the beginning, and the last 2 were the ending, with a time gap in between, similar to the time gap between the 69th and 70th weeks of Daniel? I began researching the history of Islam via a book written by Sayed Ali Asgher Razwy, called ‘A Restatement of the History of Islam and Muslims’. Sayed is a renowned Muslim Historian with numerous publications. His book was his dream fulfillment, intending to present and correct numerous myths and legends that had become part of Muslim History. What is particularly nice about this book is that, as he goes through the events of Islamic history, he quotes the writings of numerous Western and Muslim well-known historians, providing a historical comparison. In the interest of time, we are not going to get deep into Muslim History, but if you wish, the source of what is presented here, the book is free online at: https://al-islam.org/restatement-history-islam-and-muslims-sayyid-ali-asghar-razwy. Yes, it is on a Muslim library site, but it won’t harm your computer.

The first thing that caught my attention was the sword given to the first 2nd Horsemen,

Revelation 6:3 When He opened the second seal, I heard the second living creature saying, “Come [b]and see.” 4 Another horse, fiery red, went out. And it was granted to the one who sat on it to take peace from the earth, and that people should kill one another; and there was given to him a great sword.

Like most, I assumed this sword was somehow symbolic of the future prophetic use of modern weaponry, as we don’t fight with swords in modern-day warfare. But what I learned is that there was an actual sword given to Islam’s greatest warrior, Muhammad’s cousin and bodyguard, Ali ibn Abi Talib, and without it in Ali’s hands, Islam would not exist today. Ali and this sword have very literally taken peace for the world to this very day. The sword called the ‘Sword of Zulfiqar’ is the most venerated sword in the Muslim world. You can read basics about this sword and Ali at this Link: https://swordbuy.co/the-zulfiqar-sword-history-significance-and-legacy/. In the interest of reading space, you can Google ‘Ali ibn Abi Talib’, to learn more about Muhammad’s cousin, the battles, and why the sword is so important to this scripture.

One thing of note about Ali from Sayed's book is that Ali was a stocky fighter covered with red hair, wore a red battle vest, and it is a Muslim belief that he was a direct descendant of Jacob’s brother Esau (the one God hated, maybe this is why). This would align with the red horse symbology of the 2nd seal, red horse.

If Ali was symbolized by the Red Horse, then it might make sense that Muhammad could be symbolized by the white horse, and research supports this.

Revelation 6:2 2 And I looked, and behold, a white horse. He who sat on it had a bow; and a crown was given to him, and he went out conquering and to conquer.

Three clues, Jesus doesn’t appear to be generous with his clues, but it might be enough, based on the research.

Muhammad was a peace-seeking man and didn’t like fighting and war. The Koran and Hadith have a lot of dichotomies written throughout them. They have peaceful loving aspects, as well as hate and kill thy enemy aspects. The Koran and Hadith were not written by Muhammad, but a collection of his teachings and thoughts, developed by his followers well after his death. When Muhammad died, he didn’t have a rightful male heir. He had 2 faithful lieutenants, a right hand of force in his cousin Ali (kin), and a left hand of religious leadership in a non-related person named Abu Baker. Each had a significant following. It would appear Ali’s supporters would come to provide the hate and killing aspects, and the Abu Baker followers the more peaceful aspects, according to Islam’s holy books. Ali would become the father of the more radical Shia sect of Islam, and Abu Baker, the more moderate sect of the Sunnis. These sects would represent the religious divide within Islam, from its inception, through to our present day

The Beast that 'was , and is not' is the one that received the 'deadly wound' but has risen back up and will be destroyed at the end at perdition...

 

[BereanBride]

I agree, and the Ottoman Empire, along with the Caliphate, ceased to exist after WWI to this day (the deadly wound), and I suspect will rise again soon, in the form of a ten-toes strategic Middle East alliance. The Empire doesn't exist today, but the roots still exist today, and are ripe to grow again, based on current events. We can't say this about the Roman Empire or any of the other empires prior. Just my view of things, but open to alternative explanations that support being at the End Times, which I don't have any doubts we are. The Caliphate is the religiously ruling component that is key.