Understanding the bible in it's ancient near eastern context

[Jeraboo]

New here, and never created anything like this before. Let me attempt to explain the topic and the intent behind it;

This is for those who are curious what the bible has to say on it's own terms, free of opinion, creed, doctrine, translation issues etc. Just wanting to learn about the experience of those who lived in the ancient near east, the language (semantic range and all).

Often times people bring an idea to the bible, and use the bible to confirm that idea. Often times people bring a doctrine that is much less younger than the ancient near eastern biblical writings and it has led to misunderstanding the bible. Often times people consider a certain english translation and certain english word meanings to be succinct when it has nothing to do with reading the bible on it's own terms (the context, the original language etc).

The idea isn't to create a combative zone here as some forums have demonstrated can happen. Instead to foster and promote healthy and peaceful conversation focused on what the bible has to say on it's own terms, understanding the ancient near eastern context and original language.

 

[Nehemiah6]

...what the bible has to say on it's own terms, understanding the ancient near eastern context and original language.

That is not the purpose of the Bible. Here is what the Bible says about itself: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (2 Tim 3:16,17) So everything else is secondary.

 

[Niki7]

The idea isn't to create a combative zone here as some forums have demonstrated can happen. Instead to foster and promote healthy and peaceful conversation focused on what the bible has to say on it's own terms, understanding the ancient near eastern context and original language.

How about a sample then of what it is you are thinking of?

 

[Jeraboo]

How do you view the bible?

Ever find yourself flipping through the pages trying to find a verse that supports an idea, ony

That is not the purpose of the Bible. Here is what the Bible says about itself: All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works. (2 Tim 3:16,17) So everything else is secondary.

Hello, thanks for the reply; the bible was not written in english, nor was it written with many of the world views people have today that are imprinted onto the bible; Not that everyone does this; However the function here is to simply, kindly, peacefully consider exploring that aspect; To pause and reflect if one will and dig a little deeper, some of the words and meanings get lost at times as the centuries and translations roll by. It may not be for everyone, but for people who want to pause and reflect, it's a welcome invite; A curiosity at best; Thanks again!

 

[Jeraboo]

How about a sample then of what it is you are thinking of?

Ok, so this can go many ways, but first, thanks for taking the time to reply and ask the question; I'm by no means a qualified guide, lol, just a curious fellow who has come to understand we have the ability with today's tools to dig deeper than one could before; Deeper into the original language and explore past translations and centuries of proposed ideas, some imprinted onto the bible that may not have always been there, or got lost in translation;

So consider patterns and design as an example, things that english won't allow anyone to pick up on; Like the first chapter or so of the bible itself; There's a pattern, in creation, 3 realms are created, then 3 realms are populated; It may sound simple, but it starts something of a ongoing pattern that can only be built upon by understanding the ancient near eastern writing and the hebrew language;

That's just touching a tiny portion, but before I go further, does it make sense?

How many people read Genesis 1 and see three realms being created, then three realms being populated and then what stems from that? How many people slow down enough and go, wait, there's even more, look at the details?

Or is it, well God created stuff in 6 days, and here we are?

So then fast forward to the time of Noah, and in hebrew you will see that the flood was a reversal of what happened during creation, in hebrew and ancient near eastern context, part of what was created in Gen 1, was uncreated in the story of Noah; and it fits, in hebrew, but gets missed in english; I find it fascinating, something to ponder; I don't offer to anyone what it might mean to them, but I think it creates a more interwoven view of the story for sure!

 

[p_rehbein]

Deeper into the original language and explore past translations and centuries of proposed ideas, some imprinted onto the bible that may not have always been there, or got lost in translation;

IMO these types of threads are based on the premises that God is not powerful enough to protect His Written Word from mistranslations, wrong interpretations, or outright falsehoods being added to it. See, my God is more than powerful enough to keep His Written Word as He intended it to be received.

That, and the fact that He sent the Holy Spirit to teach all who believe the meaning of Scripture. Me thinks the Holy Spirit is well aware of the original languages (Greek, Hebrew) and all the languages the Bible has been translated into. I believe He is fully capable of revealing to Sanctified Believers the true meaning of every word written in Gods Holy Word.

But, hey, you can have your fun revealing what the Holy Spirit has not revealed to those of us who lean on Him for understanding of Scripture.

 

[Eli1]

New here, and never created anything like this before. Let me attempt to explain the topic and the intent behind it;

This is for those who are curious what the bible has to say on it's own terms, free of opinion, creed, doctrine, translation issues etc. Just wanting to learn about the experience of those who lived in the ancient near east, the language (semantic range and all).

Often times people bring an idea to the bible, and use the bible to confirm that idea. Often times people bring a doctrine that is much less younger than the ancient near eastern biblical writings and it has led to misunderstanding the bible. Often times people consider a certain english translation and certain english word meanings to be succinct when it has nothing to do with reading the bible on it's own terms (the context, the original language etc).

The idea isn't to create a combative zone here as some forums have demonstrated can happen. Instead to foster and promote healthy and peaceful conversation focused on what the bible has to say on it's own terms, understanding the ancient near eastern context and original language.

Hello.
I appreciate your open mind but is there anything you'd like to discuss about your understanding of the Bible?

 

[Jeraboo]

Hello.
I appreciate your open mind but is there anything you'd like to discuss about your understanding of the Bible?

All of it

 

[Jeraboo]

All of it

There's so much wonder in it's design and purpose. You know something pretty cool happened on the road to emmaus, I appreciate how coy Jesus is here, like he didn't know what just happened to himself, lol, but then he goes on and does something incredible, he explains how the entire tanak points to him - these well studied disciples, needed their eyes open to this; So I see a sense of humour and a great and profound take on how to look at the tanak, looking for Jesus in it all; it's so fascinating.

 

[notmyown]

Ok, so this can go many ways, but first, thanks for taking the time to reply and ask the question; I'm by no means a qualified guide, lol, just a curious fellow who has come to understand we have the ability with today's tools to dig deeper than one could before; Deeper into the original language and explore past translations and centuries of proposed ideas, some imprinted onto the bible that may not have always been there, or got lost in translation;

So consider patterns and design as an example, things that english won't allow anyone to pick up on; Like the first chapter or so of the bible itself; There's a pattern, in creation, 3 realms are created, then 3 realms are populated; It may sound simple, but it starts something of a ongoing pattern that can only be built upon by understanding the ancient near eastern writing and the hebrew language;

That's just touching a tiny portion, but before I go further, does it make sense?

How many people read Genesis 1 and see three realms being created, then three realms being populated and then what stems from that? How many people slow down enough and go, wait, there's even more, look at the details?

Or is it, well God created stuff in 6 days, and here we are?

So then fast forward to the time of Noah, and in hebrew you will see that the flood was a reversal of what happened during creation, in hebrew and ancient near eastern context, part of what was created in Gen 1, was uncreated in the story of Noah; and it fits, in hebrew, but gets missed in english; I find it fascinating, something to ponder; I don't offer to anyone what it might mean to them, but I think it creates a more interwoven view of the story for sure!

the flood story is huge! there's so much there we can spend a lifetime making the connections to the rest of the Bible, even just in English.

the entire Bible is a beautifully woven tapestry that reflects the wisdom and greatness of the Author.

 

[Niki7]

Ok, so this can go many ways, but first, thanks for taking the time to reply and ask the question; I'm by no means a qualified guide, lol, just a curious fellow who has come to understand we have the ability with today's tools to dig deeper than one could before; Deeper into the original language and explore past translations and centuries of proposed ideas, some imprinted onto the bible that may not have always been there, or got lost in translation;

So consider patterns and design as an example, things that english won't allow anyone to pick up on; Like the first chapter or so of the bible itself; There's a pattern, in creation, 3 realms are created, then 3 realms are populated; It may sound simple, but it starts something of a ongoing pattern that can only be built upon by understanding the ancient near eastern writing and the hebrew language;

That's just touching a tiny portion, but before I go further, does it make sense?

How many people read Genesis 1 and see three realms being created, then three realms being populated and then what stems from that? How many people slow down enough and go, wait, there's even more, look at the details?

Or is it, well God created stuff in 6 days, and here we are?

So then fast forward to the time of Noah, and in hebrew you will see that the flood was a reversal of what happened during creation, in hebrew and ancient near eastern context, part of what was created in Gen 1, was uncreated in the story of Noah; and it fits, in hebrew, but gets missed in english; I find it fascinating, something to ponder; I don't offer to anyone what it might mean to them, but I think it creates a more interwoven view of the story for sure!

well I would say that God definitely created in a pattern....and I've thought about it all often enough....

I'm not sure how far I would go discussing all that in a forum, not really knowing anyone here (although the disagreeable people have a way of impressing themselves on you haha)

I will say I lean towards the world before this one though which makes me pretty much a heretic for many here

I always thought that though even when I was a child because to me, that's the way it seems to read

 

[JohnDB]

The Torah has multiple levels it is written on...
There is of course symbolism and types set up as well as for many not so plain things that are that way because we are 5700 years after it was written.

 

[Nehemiah6]

Ever find yourself flipping through the pages trying to find a verse that supports an idea,

If you have Strong's Concordance online, if you enter just one relevant word in the space, it will show you verses with that word. There are also other Bible study tools,

Hello, thanks for the reply; the bible was not written in english,

That makes absolutely no difference. God already knew it would be translated into many languages. But a faithful translation like the KJB will give you a faithful rendering and that is all that matters.

nor was it written with many of the world views people have today that are imprinted onto the bible;

That is completely false. A faithful translation is just that -- a faithful translation. Not something else.

 

[Jeraboo]

If you have Strong's Concordance online, if you enter just one relevant word in the space, it will show you verses with that word. There are also other Bible study tools,
That makes absolutely no difference. God already knew it would be translated into many languages. But a faithful translation like the KJB will give you a faithful rendering and that is all that matters.
That is completely false. A faithful translation is just that -- a faithful translation. Not something else.

Translations are voted on by committee, they are very open about the process and why they do it. There's also a number of new releases of the same translations that come out 'revised' as the committee's will rework a translated word here or there, as in many instances there are numerous 'english' options to choose from. It's all rather fascinating to learn about.

Strongs is a tool, but not the only one. One tool I also find helpful is https://www.logos.com/ it's super amped up study tool that shows a lot of really cool things. Want to take things further? Look at 'semantic range' study how each occurence of the same Hebrew root word is used and it's many different english translations. If it's of interest of course.

 

[PaulThomson]

How about a sample then of what it is you are thinking of?

Another example. If one reads the histories of Ancient Near Eastern societies, they are keen to emphasise how mighty their god is compared to other nations' gods. So they use hyperbole to describe what they achieved in battle, much as we do to describe what happened on a sports field. We slaughtered men women and children and left none alive, but they did not do that. We find such exaggerations in the Old testament, where The Israelites report having wiped out such and such a nation, and we find that nation appearing soon after in the narrative. So, the reports of genocides that antichristians use to validate rejecting the Bible, and that some Christians use to validate going to war against antichristian agents, are being misunderstood and misapplied.

 

[Jeraboo]

How about a sample then of what it is you are thinking of?

Consider uncovering patterns and designs that fits the ancient near eastern culture... things like waves crashing, it's a common phrase but what does it mean culturally in the Hebrew bible? Waves crashing represents all sorts of trouble, a phrase to them with meaning in their cultural context, but if someone told you today how their day was going and you said, the waves surround me, it might seem odd;

Another fun thing, when things go east and things go west, or when things are referring to going up, or going down, in the Hebrew bible, it carries more to it than just direction, going east, west, up or down also have ancient near eastern cultural meanings that for me, are fun to explore throughout their use in scripture

 

[Burn1986]

New here, and never created anything like this before. Let me attempt to explain the topic and the intent behind it;

This is for those who are curious what the bible has to say on it's own terms, free of opinion, creed, doctrine, translation issues etc. Just wanting to learn about the experience of those who lived in the ancient near east, the language (semantic range and all).

Often times people bring an idea to the bible, and use the bible to confirm that idea. Often times people bring a doctrine that is much less younger than the ancient near eastern biblical writings and it has led to misunderstanding the bible. Often times people consider a certain english translation and certain english word meanings to be succinct when it has nothing to do with reading the bible on it's own terms (the context, the original language etc).

The idea isn't to create a combative zone here as some forums have demonstrated can happen. Instead to foster and promote healthy and peaceful conversation focused on what the bible has to say on its own terms, understanding the ancient near eastern context and original language.

This should go well 🙄

 

[Niki7]

if someone told you today how their day was going and you said, the waves surround me, it might seem odd;

being familiar with the Bible, I think I would catch on pretty quick

Another fun thing, when things go east and things go west, or when things are referring to going up, or going down, in the Hebrew bible, it carries more to it than just direction, going east, west, up or down also have ancient near eastern cultural meanings that for me, are fun to explore throughout their use in scripture

Great. Go for it then. I don't read minds

 

[Niki7]

Another example. If one reads the histories of Ancient Near Eastern societies, they are keen to emphasise how mighty their god is compared to other nations' gods. So they use hyperbole to describe what they achieved in battle, much as we do to describe what happened on a sports field. We slaughtered men women and children and left none alive, but they did not do that. We find such exaggerations in the Old testament, where The Israelites report having wiped out such and such a nation, and we find that nation appearing soon after in the narrative. So, the reports of genocides that antichristians use to validate rejecting the Bible, and that some Christians use to validate going to war against antichristian agents, are being misunderstood and misapplied.

well how shall we consider the following then:

Now go and smite Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have, and spare them not; but slay both man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass. I Samuel 15:3

Judgment on the Idolaters
1 Then I heard him call out in a loud voice, “Bring near those who are appointed to execute judgment on the city, each with a weapon in his hand.”
2 And I saw six men coming from the direction of the upper gate, which faces north, each with a deadly weapon in his hand. With them was a man clothed in linen who had a writing kit at his side. They came in and stood beside the bronze altar.
3 Now the glory of the God of Israel went up from above the cherubim, where it had been, and moved to the threshold of the temple. Then the LORD called to the man clothed in linen who had the writing kit at his side
4 and said to him, “Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”
5 As I listened, he said to the others, “Follow him through the city and kill, without showing pity or compassion.
6 Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary.” So they began with the old men who were in front of the temple.
7 Then he said to them, “Defile the temple and fill the courts with the slain. Go!” So they went out and began killing throughout the city.
8 While they were killing and I was left alone, I fell facedown, crying out, “Alas, Sovereign LORD! Are you going to destroy the entire remnant of Israel in this outpouring of your wrath on Jerusalem?”
9 He answered me, “The sin of the people of Israel and Judah is exceedingly great; the land is full of bloodshed and the city is full of injustice. They say, ‘The LORD has forsaken the land; the LORD does not see.’
10 So I will not look on them with pity or spare them, but I will bring down on their own heads what they have done.”
11 Then the man in linen with the writing kit at his side brought back word, saying, “I have done as you commanded.”
Ezekiel 9

So then the Israelites exaggerated, did not do as God told them and low and behold, they suffer for it to this day?

Something like that?

 

[John146]

Consider uncovering patterns and designs that fits the ancient near eastern culture... things like waves crashing, it's a common phrase but what does it mean culturally in the Hebrew bible? Waves crashing represents all sorts of trouble, a phrase to them with meaning in their cultural context, but if someone told you today how their day was going and you said, the waves surround me, it might seem odd;

Another fun thing, when things go east and things go west, or when things are referring to going up, or going down, in the Hebrew bible, it carries more to it than just direction, going east, west, up or down also have ancient near eastern cultural meanings that for me, are fun to explore throughout their use in scripture

And if you study the KJV, you will understand this without having to know cultural differences.