Undesirable

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Chapel

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Hello everyone. I am really enjoying reading the questions and answers here; there are a lot of knowledgable people, so I have comment/question on sin.

If our Lord detests sin so much, has wanted to wipe out mankind because of our sins, and sacrificed His own son for sin; then why did he create us with a sinful nature?

I understand the concept of free will; the question is not about free will. It is about the very creation of something so undesirable.

I do understand that God's ways our higher than our own; that we in our limited knowledge can never fully understand why He does what He does; but I would like to know your thoughts on this.

Thanks.
 
God did not create us with a sinful nature. He made us perfect...in His own likeness. He did give us free will and with that free will we chose sin instead of God. Have you read Genesis? If not, I suggest that you do. The story of Adam and Eve isn't just a story.
 
AS scripture says "For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, said the LORD." so the ways of the Lord, well who is to know what they are. Satan was made perfect (Ezek 28:12-15) and there was some problem there.


From my human thought process I think of those Giga pets my kids had, - those pocket watch type digital pets that you had to look after. If God wanted to share his space with perfection he might just want to give it a trial run by creating a reasonable facsimile to what he had in mind. Of course he could have just created a robot , but like those Giga pets, robots are not a whole lot of fun and there isn't much interaction.
 
amymine712 said:
God did not create us with a sinful nature. He made us perfect...in His own likeness. He did give us free will and with that free will we chose sin instead of God.
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Thank you for your response! To answer your question; yes, I have read Genesis...I have read much of the Bible. I am familiar with the story of Adam and Eve.

It seems as though that you have missed my point though.

In my original post, I wrote that my question was not...repeat...not...a question about "free will", but about sin itself.

You stated, "He did give us free will and with that free will we chose sin instead of God." Well, really..."we" didn't, being as that you and I were not even born then; but I know what you mean.

So I guess my question is more along the lines of...what CREATED those circumstances? Did SIN just pop out of nowhere?
While it is true that sin was a choice. Why did it exist in the first place?

Thank you again. I appreciate you taking out if your time to answer.
 
I think that's something only God can answer with certainty, but personally I think there has to be sin for there to be righteousness. It's necessary for love to even exist. There has to be that "choice" for love to work. I mean would it really be love if we were all programmed perfect? I think that would make use lifeless robots personally. Since you've read so much of the bible you see how He try's and try's to show us His perfection with the Law, yet we can't see it and we kept on rebelling even to this day against His word. We can not hope to do it on our own, that's why He had to com fulfill the requirements and live3 by the Law perfectly to be the "Perfect Sacrifice", to pay for all sin. That's what Jesus did on the cross was reconcile us with God again, washing our sin away with His blood Giving Himself (the Holy Spirit) a chance to dwell within us.

Make sense?
 
Chapel said:
Hello everyone. I am really enjoying reading the questions and answers here; there are a lot of knowledgable people, so I have comment/question on sin.

If our Lord detests sin so much, has wanted to wipe out mankind because of our sins, and sacrificed His own son for sin; then why did he create us with a sinful nature?

I understand the concept of free will; the question is not about free will. It is about the very creation of something so undesirable.

I do understand that God's ways our higher than our own; that we in our limited knowledge can never fully understand why He does what He does; but I would like to know your thoughts on this.

Thanks.
Click to expand...
Mankind was created sinless not perfect.
Mankind fell IN Adam (So now we are born with a sinful nature) and redeemed IN Christ (So now we are reborn with His nature).
He does not desire our death but has given Himself unto death for our salvation.
 
Jimbone,

You explained it in a way that make prefect sense. Thank you thank you thank you for actually answering the question rather than just ignoring it and throwing in a bunch of Christian rhetoric!

I have had similar thoughts myself as to to why sin may exist. Would we truly know what love feels like if we had nothing bad to compare it to? Would we truly appreciate the good things in life if everyday was a good day? Would we even pray or be grateful to God if we never fell and knew the feeling if Him picking us up? Many people don't even pray until things go bad.

Would you say that...in a way...God needs the bad, to show us the good? If it were not for Satan (and I am not glorifying Satan) would we REALLY appreciate appreciate God?
 
Chapel said:
Jimbone,

You explained it in a way that make prefect sense. Thank you thank you thank you for actually answering the question rather than just ignoring it and throwing in a bunch of Christian rhetoric!

I have had similar thoughts myself as to to why sin may exist. Would we truly know what love feels like if we had nothing bad to compare it to? Would we truly appreciate the good things in life if everyday was a good day? Would we even pray or be grateful to God if we never fell and knew the feeling if Him picking us up? Many people don't even pray until things go bad.

Would you say that...in a way...God needs the bad, to show us the good? If it were not for Satan (and I am not glorifying Satan) would we REALLY appreciate appreciate God?
Click to expand...

I would say that, but don't think any of us can fully grasp Gods reasons, but to show His Holiness I feel it is necessary. Thank you for your kind words, and all the "Christian rhetoric" thrown was out of good intentions, and I feel some were trying to say the same thing. It is a very good question to think on though, so I thank you for bringing it up to discuss.

May God bless you and your family,
your brother in Christ,
Jimmy Rogers
 
Chapel said:
Hello everyone. I am really enjoying reading the questions and answers here; there are a lot of knowledgable people, so I have comment/question on sin.

If our Lord detests sin so much, has wanted to wipe out mankind because of our sins, and sacrificed His own son for sin; then why did he create us with a sinful nature?

I understand the concept of free will; the question is not about free will. It is about the very creation of something so undesirable.

I do understand that God's ways our higher than our own; that we in our limited knowledge can never fully understand why He does what He does; but I would like to know your thoughts on this.

Thanks.
Click to expand...


On earth as it is in heaven as Christ spoke in Matthew 6:10 My thoughts are only those on earth that choose to turn away from sin by the choice of free will will be allowed into heaven where there is no sin. It wasn't a sinful nature we were created with but created with free will to either love God and his commandments or let the tempter give us what our flesh desires. Those who recognize the power of love and the rewards he has for us want nothing else. All sin debt was paid by Christ blood on the cross and no one that chooses to hold on to anything that they think is more important than Jesus and not lay it at the foot of the cross will be allowed beyond the cross. Romans 6:23 For the wages of sin is death but the gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. My thoughts are that only God knows why there is an undesirable influence on earth and knows the reason for its creation. I think it was for the purpose of God to live forever with those that choose his way over our self serving ways. Just my thoughts
 
Very good question by the way. As a programmer, I have written programs that do exactly as I have created them to do. I do not "love" them. I do not have a relationship with them. They do not choose what to do, when to do it, how to do it ... I have them programmed to do EXACTLY as I designed them.

God could have made us like that. No choice, no will. No ability to do anything but exactly be in line with Him at all times.

God created Angels, and Men, with a capacity to decide, to think, to reason, and to make their own decisions. According to Ezekiel, Satan corrupted himself. Man, specifically Adam, as Eve wasn't even created yet, was given a choice, and a single command of God. "Do not eat of this tree.", and a set of consequences "It is the tree of knowledge of Good and evil" and "In the day you(singular) eat of it, you(singular) will die. (Kind of explains why Eve didn't get consequences for eating.)

So now we have it. We have God's command. We have Adam with full knowledge of God's command. We have Adam with the ability to choose to obey God, or not to obey God, and, without a knowledge of good and evil, this is the only "choice" that Adam has that can change his destiny.

Now think about this. Rewards and punishment and justice. Can I be just and punish you if you were knocked unconscious, someone put a gun in your hand, and pulled the trigger with the gun in your hand, killing someone else? Why or why not? No, right? It wasn't your "will" that executed the action that resulted in death. Someone else's will made it so that, even though the gun was in your hand, you weren't responsible for the action. You didn't kill anyone, nor did the gun. In this instance you would be just like the computer programs I write, executing commands that they have no choice but to follow.


Same with rewards. I cannot be just and reward you for something you had no part in doing as an act of will. Your choice has to be involved for just rewards to be given out. Otherwise, again, it is just like the computer program. It does as programmed. If I wrote it into a robot, and it did as I had programmed, would I seek to reward it? Do they reward the machines at automobile manufacturing plants? No. Ludicrous, right?


Now we all have a choice to seek out God, his truth, his will, and keep on seeking, proving, rightly dividing, examining ... to be sure that we have the truth and are doing what pleases God or we can just gather things we can use to prove our beliefs true and all opposing beliefs false and interpret everything in the light of our beliefs. We all have a choice as to how we respond to what we are given, and all of us have been given quite a lot. Rom. 1:18-32. We can all suppress, reject, exchange ... the truth of God, that He gives to each one of us, for a lie. We can refuse to accept a love for truth that exceeds our love for our beliefs, or we can seek God diligently and persistently for the rest of our lives, and be rewarded for our desire to know the truth about Him.


Again, acts of will produce rewards or punishment. If we choose to love Him, if we choose to seek Him, if we love truth more than any of our beliefs, we end up in a relationship with Him. It's not a relationship with robots without a choice. It's a relationship with those that choose to seek Him, to seek to understand Him, who want to be with Him, and live in accordance with all He thinks, believes, feels, wants, ... IF WE LOVE .... then we will keep His commandments. And we figure out what each and every one of them really says and means. And we have a relationship with our God.

Does this make sense?
 
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