Valley of Decision.... It's time to make a choice!

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garee said:
Good example. Reminded me of the Jeremiah parable that defines the proper order of repenting comforting one self having the assurance of where we are being led. The two turnings as one work of the owner . First he turn us puling on the reigns to hear the command and in turn we can follow him .

Not sure as a city person but do you think it would be more work to turn a horse unaccustomed to the bit and reigns or a yoked bullock ?

Jeremiah 31:17-19 King James Version (KJV) And there is hope in thine end, saith the Lord, that thy children shall come again to their own border. I have surely heard Ephraim bemoaning himself thus; Thou hast chastised me, and I was chastised, as a bullock unaccustomed to the yoke: turn thou me, and I shall be turned; for thou art the Lord my God.
Surely after that I was turned, I repented; and after that I was instructed, I smote upon my thigh: I was ashamed, yea, even confounded, because I did bear the reproach of my youth.
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A Bullock unaccustomed to the yoke is hard to turn. Probably one of the hardest things to do is teach a young bull to work under yoke. It's dangerous too. There the writer was admitting how difficult he was and yet God still reigned him in. Amen. Thanks be to the Lord for his patience even with us very difficult people. Bless God.
 
EleventhHour said:
Yes I agree.
I absolutely agree that the grace of God is for everyone and not just for a select few, and He works in everyone's life, and yes some suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
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Two kinds of mercy . Mercy triumphs over judgement. Mercy with grace applied to those who have been given (not offered) a new born again spirit No longer subject to the temporal, dying according to the letter of the law death . and mercy in so much that God is not a God of eternal vengeance. those will not rise on the last day . Their last breath was on the last day according to the letter of the law, it will be cast into the lake of fire and also will not rise and condemn through corruption an entire creation. One rises alone.

We must be careful how we hear the words of eternal life that work in us to both will and do the good pleasure of our God, Christ Jesus.

The words "as many as" used many times to represent not one more or less. They seem to conflict the idea that grace of God as the work of God is for everyone and not just for a select few.

A few examples...

Matthew 14:36 And besought him that they might only touch the hem of his garment: and as many as touched were made perfectly whole.

Matthew 20:28 Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:

Gave not offered. and His name is his power that works in us not of us. If we believe it shows we have been given the power.

John 8:30 As he spake these words, many believed on him.

Luke 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.

In the above parable the word as is used to indicate a parable is in view and the prescription for rightly dividing them must be applied. (2 Corinthians 4:18) The word as also would seem to indicate it is time to mix faith a phrase which represents hearing the gospel. . . hid for those who know not Christ.

Sweat as a metaphor is used to represent the unseen work of the father working with the Son. The phrase as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground indicates spirit life was given to strengthen the Son needed to finish the demonstration of a suffering Savior working with his father to bring us the peace of God the understanding of Him .

While the life of the flesh is in the blood that life is not literal blood without a spirit. Apart from the spirit the flesh is dead. Every sacrifice literal blood was poured out falling down to the ground to show by faith Spirit life was given
 
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garee said:
Why the distinction between tempted and beguiled?

Adam ate and died. Eve ate and died. The letter of the law death was applied to both.
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Adam made a conscious choice. Adam knew what God had said and chose to rebel against God for the sake of Eve. Adam loved Eve who was flesh of his flesh over God who created Adam and Eve.

It helps to understand the differences. We can begin to understand the true depravity of our nature when we understand choice and why man must understand his need to choose Christ over self.

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
Dave-L said:
Why pray "lead us not into temptation" if we have free will?
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Why accuse God of tempting men?
Dave-L said:
Who is saved? The one who gives God full glory for saving them? Or the one who tries to split the glory with him?
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Another untruth told by the spirit of man. Lean not to your own understanding.

Pr 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
garee said:
Why the distinction between tempted and beguiled?

Adam ate and died. Eve ate and died. The letter of the law death was applied to both.
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Beguiled and tempted are not exactly the same. If you see the definition of beguiled below, you find that there is deceptive pleasure, and beauty.
  1. charm or enchant (someone), sometimes in a deceptive way.
    "every prominent American artist has been beguiled by Maine"

  2. LITERARY
    help (time) pass pleasantly. There is a difference between
 
I wonder how many realize the op is centered on receiving the baptism in the Holy Spirit after conversion?
 
Locoponydirtman said:
Beguiled and tempted are not exactly the same. If you see the definition of beguiled below, you find that there is deceptive pleasure, and beauty.
  1. charm or enchant (someone), sometimes in a deceptive way.
    "every prominent American artist has been beguiled by Maine"

  2. LITERARY
    help (time) pass pleasantly. There is a difference between
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Thanks
I am surely no expert but is not beguiled the effect of being tempted? like I fooled you?
 
notuptome said:
Why accuse God of tempting men?

Another untruth told by the spirit of man. Lean not to your own understanding.

Pr 3:5 Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Why pray "lead us not into temptation" if God does not do so? Didn't he lead Adam into temptation?
 
Absolutely said:
I recieved it through the laying on of hands
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The bible uses the word hand (seen the temporal ) in parables to represent will.(not seen the eternal )

Hand or will of the Holy Spirit?. Or rather the hands of corrupted mankind?

The laying on of hands is simply another form of prayer or request like the folding of hands or bowing or closing ones eye entering a closet etc . God is not served by human hands as if he needed something from the corrupted clay he is forming Christ in.
 
EleventhHour said:
I really do not think this is true... one does not have to be born again to respond to truth, but certainly the Spirit of God is at work.
The point is to not rely on human wisdom, but rather the truth of the scripture, human wisdom does not understand the cross.
However, people can a do become like children and are able to lay down preconceived ideas.
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Here's a little test.

See if you can find faith in the unsaved human heart.

“But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:18–21 (KJV 1900)

Now, having searched in vain, see if you can spot faith in the saved person.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.” Galatians 5:22–23 (KJV 1900)

Now, is faith a work of the flesh? Or is it a fruit of the Holy Spirit?
 
EleventhHour said:
Yes I agree.
I absolutely agree that the grace of God is for everyone and not just for a select few, and He works in everyone's life, and yes some suppress the truth in unrighteousness.
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How about those whose hearts he hardened so they could not believe?

“Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.” John 12:39–40 (KJV 1900)
 
Dave-L said:
How about those whose hearts he hardened so they could not believe?

“Therefore they could not believe, because that Esaias said again, He hath blinded their eyes, and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them.” John 12:39–40 (KJV 1900)
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I am not as knowledgeable as you on this particular topic so not sure why I ventured here :)..... but I will state I know that hardened here also means strengthened .. so once they have time reached the point where they refuse to be persuaded then God does add to that for His own purposes.

God is desiring that all come to repentance... I start there and work from that lens.
 
EleventhHour said:
I am not as knowledgeable as you on this particular topic so not sure why I ventured here :)..... but I will state I know that hardened here also means strengthened .. so once they have time reached the point where they refuse to be persuaded then God does add to that for His own purposes.

God is desiring that all come to repentance... I start there and work from that lens.
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“And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.” John 6:65–66 (KJV 1900)
 
Dave-L said:
“And he said, Therefore said I unto you, that no man can come unto me, except it were given unto him of my Father. From that time many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.” John 6:65–66 (KJV 1900)
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I will back .. good point though
 
Dave-L said:
Here's a little test.

See if you can find faith in the unsaved human heart.

“But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies, Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.” Galatians 5:18–21 (KJV 1900)

Now, having searched in vain, see if you can spot faith in the saved person.

“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.” Galatians 5:22–23 (KJV 1900)

Now, is faith a work of the flesh? Or is it a fruit of the Holy Spirit?
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Thinking ....
 
Dave-L said:
Why pray "lead us not into temptation" if God does not do so? Didn't he lead Adam into temptation?
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According to scripture God does not tempt men.

Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
notuptome said:
According to scripture God does not tempt men.

Jas 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man:

For the cause of Christ
Roger
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Satan temps people. But God sets the stage for it. As with Adam.
 
Dave-L said:
Satan temps people. But God sets the stage for it. As with Adam.
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Nope. James continues to disagree with you. Man is enticed or tempted by his lusts not by God. Satan certainly uses this against men but even Satan cannot make you sin. Receive the engrafted word of God with meekness for it is able to save your soul. James 1:21

For the cause of Christ
Roger
 
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