Verse for "once saved always saved"?

[Chester]

How someone can be arminian and believe in eternal security at the same time. They want the freedom to make a decision for Christ but they dont want the freedom to deny Christ.

To answer the question: Here is a verse proving eternal security:

John 6:37-40
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

That should settle it. Everyone that the Father gives to the Son, will come to the Son and those who do come to the Son will never be cast out and Jesus will not lose any of them, but will raise them up on the last day.

Crystal clear.

There are other crystal clear passages elsewhere in the Scriptures but this is the words of Jesus Himself, but lets do one from the pauline epistles:

Philippians 1:6
And I am sure of this, that he who began a good work in you will bring it to completion at the day of Jesus Christ.

Few more that I wont post but you can look them up for yourself:
John 10:28-29, Romans 8:38-39, Ephesians 4:30, Ephesians 1:13, Jude 1:24.

As for the warning passages about apostasy, the quick answer to them is in:

1 John 2:19
They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us. But they went out, that it might become plain that they all are not of us.

This means that the truly regenerated and the truly born again will not be apostate.

I hope this helps. If you got any questions feel free to ask or PM me. Im not a pastor nor do I hold any authority within the Church, but I have taught a couple people some of the basics of the faith, which I consider this subject to be.

\

Does John 6:37-40 say that the will of the Father is always done?
What if the person in verse 37 stops coming to Christ?

Phil. 1:6 - does this verse mean that everyone who becomes a Christian will always be a Christian?
- Read Galatians, Corinthians - Paul talks differently about different groups of believers

 

[Chester]

KJVRomans8:38-39 38. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come. 39. Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature,shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

? ? ?

wonderful verse with deep powerful truths

but it doesn't say "once a person is saved they will always be saved"

 

[Sagart]

To answer the question: Here is a verse proving eternal security:

John 6:37-40
All that the Father gives me will come to me, and whoever comes to me I will never cast out. For I have come down from heaven, not to do my own will but the will of him who sent me. And this is the will of him who sent me, that I should lose nothing of all that he has given me, but raise it up on the last day. For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son and believes in him should have eternal life, and I will raise him up on the last day.”

That should settle it. Everyone that the Father gives to the Son, will come to the Son and those who do come to the Son will never be cast out and Jesus will not lose any of them, but will raise them up on the last day.

Crystal clear.

John 6:35. Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.
36. "But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe.
37. "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38. "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39. "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
40. "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (NASB, 1995)

In John 6:35 Jesus uses the Greek present tense when saying that He is the bread of life. When He says, however, “he who comes to Me” he shifts from the Greek present tense to the Greek present participle describing the action of being in the process of coming to Him. Therefore, those who are in the process of coming to Him will never thirst. The Greek word translated here “thirst” is in the Greek subjunctive mood meaning that this is a conditional statement; that is, those persons who are in the process of coming to Jesus will never thirst. This promise, therefore, does NOT apply to anyone who turns from Jesus and begins walking away, that is backslides. When He says, “who believes in Me” He again uses the Greek present participle describing the action of being in the process of believing in Him. Therefore, those who are in the process of believing in Him will never thirst. Therefore, never thirsting and salvation itself is CONDITIONAL upon our continuing in our faith. Compare Col. 1:21-23,

21. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22. yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach--
23. if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister. (NASB, 1995)

In John 6:37 Jesus uses the Greek future tense in the indicative mood when saying that “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me” meaning that this is not a conditional statement but a statement of fact. When He says, however, “the one who comes to Me” He shifts from the Greek future tense to the Greek present participle describing again the action of being in the process of coming to Him. Therefore, those who are in the process of coming to Him He will not cast out.

The Greek word translated “cast” in verse 37 is in the Greek subjunctive mood meaning that this is a conditional statement; that is, those persons who are in the process of coming to Jesus He will not cast out. This promise, therefore, does NOT apply to anyone who turns from Jesus and begins walking away. The Greek word translated “lose” in verse 39 is also in the Greek subjunctive mood meaning that this is also a conditional statement; that is, it is the will of His Father that He lose nothing, but the actual outcome is conditional upon their continuing to come and their continuing to believe.

When He says in verse 40, “everyone who beholds the Son and believes” He again uses the Greek present participle describing the actions of being in the process of beholding the Son and believing in Him. Therefore, those who are in the process of beholding the Son and believing in Him will have eternal life. Therefore, having eternal life is CONDITIONAL upon our continuing in our faith. The Greek word translated “will have” (eternal life) in verse 40 is in the Greek subjunctive mood meaning that this is a conditional statement; that is, those persons who are in the process of beholding the Son and believing in Him will have eternal life.

Therefore, the Greek text of John 6:3 5-40 does NOT support the doctrine of eternal security (once saved, always saved). Indeed, it EXPRESSLY TEACHES that our having eternal life is CONDITIONAL upon our continuing to do three things,

1. come to Him
2. believe in Him
3 behold Him

This is why the doctrine of CONDITIONAL security is the Biblical doctrine and the doctrine of eternal security (once saved, always saved) is a non-Biblical doctrine, a doctrine that is expressly contradicted in the Bible.

 

[DJ2]

I Agree, I think we are talking about two different Gods.

One God says we can be obedient enough to save ourself and sent his son to die in vein,

The other God says we are all sinners and fall short of his glory, thus can never be obedient enough to pay for sin, so he sent his son to do what we could not do. And wants us to humble ourselves and recieve this gift of eternal life.

You are so deep into faith alone regeneration theology that you cannot see the faith plus in your own words.

We must believe.
We must humble ourselves.
We must receive.

You are like most faith alone regenerationists. You want to proclaim that mankind can do nothing toward their salvation then reel off a list of things that a person must do to be saved.

If mankind can do nothing toward his own salvation then stop with the "must believe correctly" nonsense.

And if mankind cannot choose to believe correctly then stop dangling the impossible to reach predestination carrot at us who believe but because we are not chosen are doomed to always believe incorrectly.

Let us enjoy our illusion of a hope for salvation until the day of judgement when it will be revealed that we were never chosen to believe correctly.

 

[valiant]

John 6:35. Jesus said to them, "I am the bread of life; he who comes to Me will not hunger, and he who believes in Me will never thirst.
36. "But I said to you that you have seen Me, and yet do not believe.
37. "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out.
38. "For I have come down from heaven, not to do My own will, but the will of Him who sent Me.
39. "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of all that He has given Me I lose nothing, but raise it up on the last day.
40. "For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who beholds the Son and believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will raise him up on the last day." (NASB, 1995)

In John 6:35 Jesus uses the Greek present tense when saying that He is the bread of life. When He says, however, “he who comes to Me” he shifts from the Greek present tense to the Greek present participle describing the action of being in the process of coming to Him. Therefore, those who are in the process of coming to Him will never thirst. The Greek word translated here “thirst” is in the Greek subjunctive mood meaning that this is a conditional statement; that is, those persons who are in the process of coming to Jesus will never thirst. This promise, therefore, does NOT apply to anyone who turns from Jesus and begins walking away, that is backslides. When He says, “who believes in Me” He again uses the Greek present participle describing the action of being in the process of believing in Him. Therefore, those who are in the process of believing in Him will never thirst. Therefore, never thirsting and salvation itself is CONDITIONAL upon our continuing in our faith. Compare Col. 1:21-23,

21. And although you were formerly alienated and hostile in mind, engaged in evil deeds,
22. yet He has now reconciled you in His fleshly body through death, in order to present you before Him holy and blameless and beyond reproach--
23. if indeed you continue in the faith firmly established and steadfast, and not moved away from the hope of the gospel that you have heard, which was proclaimed in all creation under heaven, and of which I, Paul, was made a minister. (NASB, 1995)

In John 6:37 Jesus uses the Greek future tense in the indicative mood when saying that “All that the Father gives Me will come to Me” meaning that this is not a conditional statement but a statement of fact. When He says, however, “the one who comes to Me” He shifts from the Greek future tense to the Greek present participle describing again the action of being in the process of coming to Him. Therefore, those who are in the process of coming to Him He will not cast out.

The Greek word translated “cast” in verse 37 is in the Greek subjunctive mood meaning that this is a conditional statement; that is, those persons who are in the process of coming to Jesus He will not cast out. This promise, therefore, does NOT apply to anyone who turns from Jesus and begins walking away. The Greek word translated “lose” in verse 39 is also in the Greek subjunctive mood meaning that this is also a conditional statement; that is, it is the will of His Father that He lose nothing, but the actual outcome is conditional upon their continuing to come and their continuing to believe.

When He says in verse 40, “everyone who beholds the Son and believes” He again uses the Greek present participle describing the actions of being in the process of beholding the Son and believing in Him. Therefore, those who are in the process of beholding the Son and believing in Him will have eternal life. Therefore, having eternal life is CONDITIONAL upon our continuing in our faith. The Greek word translated “will have” (eternal life) in verse 40 is in the Greek subjunctive mood meaning that this is a conditional statement; that is, those persons who are in the process of beholding the Son and believing in Him will have eternal life.

Therefore, the Greek text of John 6:3 5-40 does NOT support the doctrine of eternal security (once saved, always saved). Indeed, it EXPRESSLY TEACHES that our having eternal life is CONDITIONAL upon our continuing to do three things,

1. come to Him
2. believe in Him
3 behold Him

This is why the doctrine of CONDITIONAL security is the Biblical doctrine and the doctrine of eternal security (once saved, always saved) is a non-Biblical doctrine, a doctrine that is expressly contradicted in the Bible.

except that you do not understand the Greek LOL

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are so deep into faith alone regeneration theology that you cannot see the faith plus in your own words.

We must believe.
We must humble ourselves.
We must receive.

You are like most faith alone regenerationists. You want to proclaim that mankind can do nothing toward their salvation then reel off a list of things that a person must do to be saved.

If mankind can do nothing toward his own salvation then stop with the "must believe correctly" nonsense.

And if mankind cannot choose to believe correctly then stop dangling the impossible to reach predestination carrot at us who believe but because we are not chosen are doomed to always believe incorrectly.

Let us enjoy our illusion of a hope for salvation until the day of judgement when it will be revealed that we were never chosen to believe correctly.

Smh

John 6, It is the WORK OF GOD WE BELIEVE IN THE ONE HE SENT.

Faith is not our work. And it can not be boasted about, and it can not be used to earn anything.

We rely and trust the work of another (christ) to save us.

Continue believing you can earn salvation. Thats on you. I just pray you find out the truth before its too late.

ps. Your not the first to come Using these argument, I am sure you Weill noto be the last. They have not worked before, they will not work now, and they will not work later.

 

[Grandpa]

This may be your opinion but the Bible speaks of believing without action as a reality.

Simon Magus
Judas Iscariot
The many disciples who turned back and no longer followed Him (John 6:66)

All are examples of belief but not the proper action.

Salvation causes action. Belief causes action. IF that action is not present then neither is faith.

Faith alone groups cannot have it both ways. If salvation is based solely on believing Jesus as the means to salvation then demanding action as a litmus test as proof of salvation is wrong. If faith alone saves then anything past that faith is a work and not needed.

We are saved by faith alone. Our salvation is not of works.

But our salvation leads us to do certain things. Love is an action, right, not just a belief or a feeling?

This is the logical hole that this reasoning leads to.

Well you are right. Our works aren't needed for our Salvation. Our Salvation is the cause of our work.

The three examples above had to believe plus be willing to be led....a work. There are many secular things and causes that I believe in but are certainly not led by.

This is why there are no verses that state "faith alone" except James 2:24.

The fact is that we are led by Christ and the Holy Spirit. Can't have Salvation without being led. We just aren't smart enough or strong enough to follow the instructions.

Sorry.

I would never have admitted that before being saved. I would have said if someone else is saved then I can certainly do it as well.

 

[beastslayer1970]

KJVRomans8:38-39 38. For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come. 39. Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature,shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Maybe you can clear up a mystery I have concerning Romans 8:39.

39. Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature,shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Now check out the other passages in Romans.
Romans 1:16
For I am not ashamed of the gospel, for it is the power of God for salvation to everyone who believes, to the Jew first and also to the Greek.


Romans 10:1
[ The Word of Faith Brings Salvation ] Brethren, my heart’s desire and my prayer to God for them is for their salvation.


Romans 10:10
for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.


Romans 11:11
I say then, they did not stumble so as to fall, did they? May it never be! But by their transgression salvation has come to the Gentiles, to make them jealous.


Romans 13:11
Do this, knowing the time, that it is already the hour for you to awaken from sleep; for now salvation is nearer to us than when we believed.


Here is my mystery, that nobody seems to be able to solve. Could you explain how Paul used the word salvation in these passages but he did not use it in Romans 8:39? There is not a context issue, so what gives?

Can you solve this mystery?

Given Paul used the word salvation before and after Romans 8, tells us that he knew the word and was using it.

I would argue that if Romans 8:39 was about salvation not the the love of Christ, Paul would have and certainly should have wrote that verse this way:



Romans 8:39-
39. Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature,shall be able to separate us from the salvation of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Yet he does not say that, but clearly he used the same term to describe salvation before and after Romans 8:39, why?

This does not prove we work for or earn our salvation, because we don't. Likewise, this does not prove Eternal Security because the word salvation cannot be defined as love, no matter how hard we try, it is like putting indoor plumbing in an outhouse, it just does not work or is needed.

SO what does it prove?

I think it is rather marvelous that nothing will ever separate me from the love of God in Christ Jesus once I am saved, how about all of you?

 

[DJ2]

Salvation causes action. Belief causes action. IF that action is not present then neither is faith.

We are saved by faith alone. Our salvation is not of works.

But our salvation leads us to do certain things. Love is an action, right, not just a belief or a feeling?


Well you are right. Our works aren't needed for our Salvation. Our Salvation is the cause of our work.
The fact is that we are led by Christ and the Holy Spirit. Can't have Salvation without being led. We just aren't smart enough or strong enough to follow the instructions.

Sorry.

I would never have admitted that before being saved. I would have said if someone else is saved then I can certainly do it as well.

Salvation causes action. Belief causes action. IF that action is not present then neither is faith.

This is why you are confused, the receiving of a gift does not even necessarily require a thank you or an action. A freely given gift does not even need a response to be accepted.

If a gift demands a response it is not truly a gift.

Love is an action, right, not just a belief or a feeling?

Love is not an action, you are making up a definition to fit your narrative.

It is assumptions like these that cause your confusion.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is why you are confused, the receiving of a gift does not even necessarily require a thank you or an action. A freely given gift does not even need a response to be accepted.

If a gift demands a response it is not truly a gift.



Love is not an action, you are making up a definition to fit your narrative.

It is assumptions like these that cause your confusion.

If I offer a bunch of people a gift, It does not mean they HAVE to take it. I could force them all to take it against their will. I could say anyone can take it, then those who do are required to make payments or they gift will have to be returned. or I could offer it to all people. And only those who chose to take it recieve it.

Those who take it did not work to earn it, they did not work to maintain it, They did nothing, But take it.

 

[DJ2]

Sorry, But Judas was classified as one who did not believe in John 6. And he was even called a devil.

There is no such things as faith which does not work, there is belief (mental agreement) but mental agreem,envy is not enough to get people to work. Faith must come first. Thats why James said one who claims to have faith, but has zero his faith is dead (lifeless)

a faith that has life works.

Sorry, But Judas was classified as one who did not believe in John 6. And he was even called a devil.

We may never know to what degree Judas believed in Jesus but he was not one of the many disciples who left Him in John 6. The passage most certainly proclaims that the disciples who left did have more then simple mental agreement. They were labeled as "disciples" not unbelievers, their faith ended well short of the disciples who stayed but disciples they were. Judas had some form of faith in Jesus, of what degree or nature we can only guess.

It is possible to have faith but not the proper works. We may debate what are the proper works but not the need for them.

 

[DJ2]

If I offer a bunch of people a gift, It does not mean they HAVE to take it. I could force them all to take it against their will. I could say anyone can take it, then those who do are required to make payments or they gift will have to be returned. or I could offer it to all people. And only those who chose to take it recieve it.

Those who take it did not work to earn it, they did not work to maintain it, They did nothing, But take it.

This is your point of confusion. You keep speaking of salvation as a gift with no strings attached then proclaim that if not properly accepted is null and void. If salvation is a gift of grace alone then there is no need for a response from the person given the gift. When my children were young I provided everything they needed to survive. They did not earn it, it was a gift of grace alone on my part, not even a thank you was needed.

You keep insisting that a person must properly accept this gift of grace or the gift not valid. Fine, then stop proclaiming that salvation is by grace alone. You are turning the words into a meaningless catch phrase.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This is your point of confusion. You keep speaking of salvation as a gift with no strings attached then proclaim that if not properly accepted is null and void. If salvation is a gift of grace alone then there is no need for a response from the person given the gift. When my children were young I provided everything they needed to survive. They did not earn it, it was a gift of grace alone on my part, not even a thank you was needed.

You keep insisting that a person must properly accept this gift of grace or the gift not valid. Fine, then stop proclaiming that salvation is by grace alone. You are turning the words into a meaningless catch phrase.

Do you have a reading problem?

I explained this in my post. Then you said I still have a problem.

I am not the one with the problem here my friend.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

We may never know to what degree Judas believed in Jesus but he was not one of the many disciples who left Him in John 6. The passage most certainly proclaims that the disciples who left did have more then simple mental agreement. They were labeled as "disciples" not unbelievers, their faith ended well short of the disciples who stayed but disciples they were. Judas had some form of faith in Jesus, of what degree or nature we can only guess.

It is possible to have faith but not the proper works. We may debate what are the proper works but not the need for them.

John 6: 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.


​Judas was included in the group. Not only are we told he did not believe, but he would betray Jesus.

 

[DJ2]

John 6: 64 But there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus knew from the beginning who they were who did not believe, and who would betray Him.


​Judas was included in the group. Not only are we told he did not believe, but he would betray Jesus.

You are reading way too much into this verse. To assume that Judas never believed is false. Was his a weak faith, a faith that ended at some earlier point or a misguided faith? All the apostles and disciples betrayed Jesus in the end. They were all confused by His words and of His nature. They still had hopes that He was to be a earthly king.

The Bible states that Judas was so distraught over what he had done that he threw the money back and killed himself. Who does this over someone they never even believed in.

Simon Magus, Judas Iscariot and the disciples in John 6 all believed yet failed but believe they did.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are reading way too much into this verse. To assume that Judas never believed is false. Was his a weak faith, a faith that ended at some earlier point or a misguided faith? All the apostles and disciples betrayed Jesus in the end. They were all confused by His words and of His nature. They still had hopes that He was to be a earthly king.

The Bible states that Judas was so distraught over what he had done that he threw the money back and killed himself. Who does this over someone they never even believed in.

Simon Magus, Judas Iscariot and the disciples in John 6 all believed yet failed but believe they did.

I am just reading the verse

It says their are some who do not believe, Then it says who they are, Judas is included

Your trying to not read what is there.

Judas did not walk away, because he was a thief, if he walked away he would have lost his income, He did not stay because he believed.

 

[Magenta]

You are reading way too much into this verse. To assume that Judas never believed is false. Was his a weak faith, a faith that ended at some earlier point or a misguided faith? All the apostles and disciples betrayed Jesus in the end. They were all confused by His words and of His nature. They still had hopes that He was to be a earthly king.

The Bible states that Judas was so distraught over what he had done that he threw the money back and killed himself. Who does this over someone they never even believed in.

Simon Magus, Judas Iscariot and the disciples in John 6 all believed yet failed but believe they did.

Jesus said that Judas was not clean, and called Judas the son of perdition, which is to say, Jesus knew that Judas was doomed to destruction, knowing he was lost. I think it is pretty evident that Judas was not saved.

 

[Magenta]

The Bible states that Judas was so distraught over what he had done that he threw the money back and killed himself. Who does this over someone they never even believed in.

Regretting what he did does not equate to Judas suddenly believing in Jesus. Acknowledging Jesus as an innocent man is not the same thing as acknowledging Jesus as their Messiah and God, as the other apostles did. You conflate too much.

 

[mailmandan]

Jesus said that Judas was not clean, and called Judas the son of perdition, which is to say, Jesus knew that Judas was doomed to destruction, knowing he was lost. I think it is pretty evident that Judas was not saved.

Amen! Judas was an unbelieving, unclean devil who would betray Jesus (John 6:64-71; 13:10-11).

 

[DJ2]

Jesus said that Judas was not clean, and called Judas the son of perdition, which is to say, Jesus knew that Judas was doomed to destruction, knowing he was lost. I think it is pretty evident that Judas was not saved.

The salvation of Judas was never part of this discussion. The issue is did he believe, if ever or whatever.