Walking on the water

[tomahojo]

Hi all,
Our life group is studying John Ortberg: If You Want to Walk on the Water, you Have to get out of the Boat. Very slowly as it is a great study. This morning as I wrote the prayer requests, I gave thought to the importance of our group and headed the email with something you may be able to use. Or at least invoke some encouragement and discussion. In any case to cause you to give some thought also...

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Hi everyone!

Am looking forward to seeing all ya' all Tuesday. Although we do have nice discussions with a smaller number, each of you are important to all the rest. Have been reading, through the Bible again, story after story of how God took just one person, poured out His spirit through them, and changed the world in miraculous ways. These are the grand stories of obedience that made waves.

We also have the Spirit which works through each of us. Just like Saul, or Samuel, or Sampson, or... the point is that as we allow the Holy Spirit to direct us we change the world just like they did. The interactions, comments, and conversations we have around the table Tuesday evenings are having more of an impact than you might think.

Just like rock causing ripples on a calm, still pond which extend farther than one could see.

Remember that there is nothing impossible for God. Nothing. He can make His own ripples, but wants your heart to be with Him forever. So He allows us to make those ripples as we rely on Him and follow His will as best we can. That small shred of light (the ripple), now out of our sight, can be coaxed by His great power into a tidal wave of His saving grace in places and to people you have no idea of. Just one comment or kindness to a stranger is all it takes...

This is why we need each other desperately. Like iron sharpens iron. When we gather and discuss His Word, our understanding of things is tempered and refined by the work of the Holy Spirit through our words to each other. The imperfections of understanding concepts of scripture get polished by us as a group and we leave more mature in Christ each time.

Then we are more readily able to make those ripples that God is able to use as we walk through our lives. More times than not we don't even know they are being made.

Or, you never know. A random, Spirit led comment from your lips could be a confirmation to your friend across the table to step out in faith and become the next person that God makes waves with. We are studying '...Get out of the boat...'.

This week we finish the first study set and move to chapter 2 and the second set. Let's polish each other up!

 

[Beckie]

check out John Ortberg

 

[ronpal]

Hi brother! I have a Christian friend in Florida who told me about the book: Is Atheism Dead by Eric Metaxas, which gives great evidence for the existence of God and how we can know that the Bible is true. Christian kids and youth , as you know, are questioning everything to do with the Bible and our faith. A Missouri pastor told me that even church-going adults are giving up on their faith in Christ.

Fortunately Christ Jesus has given us the Word and the Spirit of Christ and inspiring, erudite Christians such as John Ortberg. and Eric Metaxas, and one of my favorites, Alan Millard, who expound on the Bible to increase all of our faith in Christ.

It really caught my eye when you use the example of how we can be like a rock making ripples in a calm pond that will have great effects for the Kingdom of God further than we can see.

I actually use that analogy with close Christian friends when I try to get them to help me with something- but your "tidal wave" part is great. I'll just copy that and maybe use "tsunami" !

 

[posthuman]

Peter ended up back in the boat. v. 32

Peter doubted, as Thomas, saying 'if it is You' - as Israel, Simeon Peter, asking for a sign.

 

[posthuman]

Peter ended up back in the boat. v. 32

Peter doubted, as Thomas, saying 'if it is You' - as Israel, Simeon Peter, asking for a sign.

God calls Peter "of little faith" v. 31

IMO if you leave these things out of your sermon you misrepresent the scripture and potentially lead the sheep astray.

 

[posthuman]

Our life group is studying John Ortberg

check out John Ortberg

um.

 

[Seeker47]

I once read a comment that this event was not really about too little faith. Peter did get out of the boat and walk. The "little faith" comment is actually referencing a faith that is too short, had no endurance. Peter started strong but could not endure. This changed my view of the whole incident.

 

[Magenta]

I once read a comment that this event was not really about too little faith.
Peter did get out of the boat and walk. The "little faith" comment is actually
referencing a faith that is too short, had no endurance. Peter started strong
but could not endure. This changed my view of the whole incident.

It is often mentioned in conjunction with this incident that Peter took his eyes
off our Lord and focused on his circumstance and that is when he sank...

When he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”

And yet it is often a matter of circumstance that prompts many to cry out in the same manner...

Thank God for His faithfulness!

 

[posthuman]

In John 21 the disciples go out fishing overnight, catching nothing. they see the resurrected Christ on the shore cooking breakfast in the morning.
He tells them to cast their net in a certain place, and they catch 153 fish.
John recognizes Him.

Peter, believing John's testimony, "puts on his cloak" and rushes from the boat towards Jesus.
The prevailing view is that he swam to shore. but why put on his clothes to jump in the water and soak them? is that any way to swim? in a full length tunic?? a lifelong fisherman knows better.

i say he ran across the water

 

[posthuman]

I once read a comment that this event was not really about too little faith. Peter did get out of the boat and walk. The "little faith" comment is actually referencing a faith that is too short, had no endurance. Peter started strong but could not endure. This changed my view of the whole incident.

this goes back to where Peter wound up and what he did of his own accord, IMO. Jesus didn't call them to come to Him on the water. He was coming to them, in the boat. it's Peter's idea to get out of the boat, not Christ's.

Peter doubts it is Him, and tests Him, saying "if it is You"
Jesus is coming to the boat.
Peter asks for a sign and jumps out of the boat. he 'gets in over his head' - and yes, Christ immediately saves him.
but then what happens?
Jesus brings Peter back to the boat.

If not for God's mercy, Peter is getting himself killed doing this.
yes God is merciful - He demonstrated it immediately! but Peter is putting God to the test here.

so i see Simeon, unbelieving, asking for a sign.
Simeon leaving the place God is coming to,
God acquiescing to give Simeon a sign he cannot stand under.
Simeon falling in the very sign he asked for, being preserved only by the hand of God.
God calling Simeon's faith small.
God bringing Simeon back to the place God was coming to from the beginning.

Simeon is a sign of Israel.


Who has greater faith, the one who knows God is coming and waits for Him?
Or the one who doubts, asks for a sign, jumps ship, falls, and has to be taken by the hand of God and brought back to the boat?


John 21 is a different story. Jesus isn't coming to them, but waiting for them, and preparing a meal for them.
these two accounts can't be understood without each other, IMO

 

[Seeker47]

this goes back to where Peter wound up and what he did of his own accord, IMO. Jesus didn't call them to come to Him on the water. He was coming to them, in the boat. it's Peter's idea to get out of the boat, not Christ's.

Peter doubts it is Him, and tests Him, saying "if it is You"
Jesus is coming to the boat.
Peter asks for a sign and jumps out of the boat. he 'gets in over his head' - and yes, Christ immediately saves him.
but then what happens?
Jesus brings Peter back to the boat.

If not for God's mercy, Peter is getting himself killed doing this.
yes God is merciful - He demonstrated it immediately! but Peter is putting God to the test here.

so i see Simeon, unbelieving, asking for a sign.
Simeon leaving the place God is coming to,
God acquiescing to give Simeon a sign he cannot stand under.
Simeon falling in the very sign he asked for, being preserved only by the hand of God.
God calling Simeon's faith small.
God bringing Simeon back to the place God was coming to from the beginning.

Simeon is a sign of Israel.


Who has greater faith, the one who knows God is coming and waits for Him?
Or the one who doubts, asks for a sign, jumps ship, falls, and has to be taken by the hand of God and brought back to the boat?


John 21 is a different story. Jesus isn't coming to them, but waiting for them, and preparing a meal for them.
these two accounts can't be understood without each other, IMO

Excellent post, had not considered it this way before....

 

[JohnDB]

It is often mentioned in conjunction with this incident that Peter took his eyes
off our Lord and focused on his circumstance and that is when he sank...

When he saw the wind, he was afraid and, beginning to sink, cried out, “Lord, save me!”

And yet it is often a matter of circumstance that prompts many to cry out in the same manner...

Thank God for His faithfulness!

Now this suggests that Peter was in control over the power allowing him to walk on the water....

He wasn't. Jesus just used the opportunity to teach a lesson.

 

[Magenta]

Now this suggests that Peter was in control over the power allowing him to walk on the water....

He wasn't. Jesus just used the opportunity to teach a lesson.

I don't see how Peter walking on water while focused on Jesus suggests that Peter was in control.

Care to explain?

 

[JohnDB]

I don't see how Peter walking on water while focused on Jesus suggests that Peter was in control.

Care to explain?

Because what you are suggesting is that it was Peter's focus on Jesus kept him afloat and when he lost that focus (because of fear of waves) that he began to sink....as if it was Peter's focus that was controlling/allowing the power to work.

 

[Nehemiah6]

...as if it was Peter's focus that was controlling/allowing the power to work.

What else?

 

[JohnDB]

What else?

Really?
Omnipotence, omniscience....
Do you have a good understanding about these two attributes?

 

[JohnDB]

Let's say this...

Peter has God/Jesus standing less than 6 meters away from him and yet Peter is in control of something other than his attitude?

 

[Nehemiah6]

Really? Omnipotence, omniscience....Do you have a good understanding about these two attributes?

Of course I do. And they have nothing to do with Peter faltering on the water. Of course it's hard to fault Peter either.

 

[Magenta]

Because what you are suggesting is that it was Peter's focus on Jesus kept him afloat and when he lost that focus (because
of fear of waves) that he began to sink....as if it was Peter's focus that was controlling/allowing the power to work.

What was the lesson you alluded to earlier? Is it not the fact that focusing on anything
other than Jesus to see us through our trials and tribulations often nets zero?

 

[JohnDB]

What was the lesson you alluded to earlier? Is it not the fact that focusing on anything
other than Jesus to see us through our trials and tribulations often nets zero?

That was the point Jesus was making....but that doesn't mean that Peter's focus was in control of God's power.

Omnipotence means ALL power is God's. Not one spark exists without God's power. Your next breath is not at God's acquiescence but at His active support.

God is Sovereign....
Meaning He has perfect control and is perfectly efficient in His use of power. It really does not require God's full attention to control anything anywhere at anytime...because He already is. Especially when it's going on less than 6 meters in front of Jesus.