Was Mary Sinless?

[Bible_Locket]

Adam's death was spiritual, as evidenced by his desire to cover up and hide from God.

Psalm 51:5
"Surely I was brought forth in iniquity; I was sinful when my mother conceived me."

That was David, the man after God's own heart.

Psalm 51:5 ESV)
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

The verse is talking about David's conception.
He wasn't a sinner as an embryo.
And thinking he was a sinner in the womb conflicts greatly with
Psalm 127.

Psalm 127:3
Children are a gift from the Lord; they are a reward from him.

Full context of Psalm 51 and David's life.

 

[Gideon300]

Psalm 51:5 ESV)
Behold, I was brought forth in iniquity, and in sin did my mother conceive me.

The verse is talking about David's conception.
He wasn't a sinner as an embryo.
And thinking he was a sinner in the womb conflicts greatly with
Psalm 127.

Psalm 127:3
Children are a gift from the Lord; they are a reward from him.

Full context of Psalm 51 and David's life.

The two statements are not incompatible. Children were essential for family well being. David was a sinner but also a man after God's own heart. That is contradictory too, or so it seems superficially.

 

[Gideon300]

PaulThomson said:
Traditions within Christendom are not necessarily true representations of reality. Why assume babies are born morally corrupt?


The Bible says nowhere that we are born dead in trespasses and sins. In fact, it says that Jacob and Esau in the womb had done nothing good or evil. So, what sin did they commit as they left the womb that made them become dead in trespasses and sins at birth?

Rom 9:11
(For the children being not yet born, neither having done any good or evil, that the purposeof God according to election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth

"Surely I was brought forth in iniquity; I was sinful when my mother conceived me." Psalm 51:5

It is obviously not possible for an unborn to sin in practice. However, a seed brings forth fruit according to its nature. People sin because they have the nature of a sinner. The nature does not change when they sin. It's the outworking of what is there already.

 

[sawdust]

From a Biblical and Theological perspective a man cannot live on earth without a spirit. Scripture CLEARLY outlines that the spirit is the essential " spark of life " or breath from God that animates physical matter, Without it a human body immediately ceases to function and becomes a corpse. The Bible explicitly establishes this rule through the mechanics of life, the definition of death, and the distinct structure of how humans are designed. Formula For Human Life: Gen. 2:7 " And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the earth, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul." Foundational Blueprint; THE BODY= The physical "earth suit" made from the dust. Completely inanimate THE SPIRIT= Hebrew; Neshamah(closely tied to Ruach) meaning "the breath of life" or the divine power source directly from God. THE SOUL= Greek- Psyche, Hebrew-Nephesh. The soul is not a third "ingredient" mixed in; rather the soul is the seat of the mind, will, emotions and intellect of an individual that results when the spirit "animates" the body. Without the spirit(the electricity), the body( like computer hardware) cannot run the soul( the software ). Ecc. 12:7 ".. the dust returns to the earth as it was, and the spirit returns to God who gave it." Pam 146:4 When a man dies " his spirits departs, he(body) returns to the earth, on that very day his plans(in his soul) perish." Luke 8:55 " Jairus' daughter being raised from the dead " And her spirit returned, and she arose immediately." While modern medicine can temporarily keep organs functioning via machines (biological life), biblically, true human life requires a spirit. The moment a spirit is fully gone, a person has crossed the threshold into death. Sources: Central Baptist Theological ; Got Questions ; Quora- Christian Bible Studies; Supernatural Truth; David Hernandez Ministries; Kimberly Payne. There are VERY FEW who agree with your stance on this issue. P.S. Spiritual death is being alive but separated from God. Spirits don't die.

Completely disagree.

That's right, spirits don't die which means we could never have had one to begin with because it can't die and we would not be dead in our trespasses and sins. We would be born spiritually alive and our spirits would be unaffected by the sin nature. You have it that the sin nature, while not killing the spirit (according to you), makes it as if it were as good as dead. All the while the scriptures state we are actually dead. So on the one hand you claim the spirit cannot die while on the other claiming we sort of died while also asserting that this deadened (according to you) spirit animates our intellect etc. Lunacy!

Human life is in the soul which is why we are called souls, not spirits. It is a third "ingredient" as we are tripartite. Adam and Eve were created and Christ was born tripartite the rest of us become tripartite when we are born (the Spirit giving birth to spirit, bringing something new into existence as that is what a birth is) from above.

Whether people disagree or not is irrelevant. Your claims are irrational as seen over and over again with dead/not dead, born/not born. Whatever way you slice it your theories do not make sense.

Again, ask yourself why do we need a spirit? For what reason did Jesus say we needed a spirit? Was it to animate soul life?

Jn.3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

 

[Bible_Locket]

James 2:26 "the body without the spirit is dead."

 

[sawdust]

It's very simple. God is Spirit. Man is made in God's image. God created man with a live spirit that was empty. Man was good but incomplete. God gave man free will to choose. You can't have real fellowship with a robot. Man obviously made the wrong choice. Salvation is God's way to restore man to the position that He intended for us in the first place.

The real person is the spirit that God placed within us. God never intended for the soul to rule. The soul is meant to serve the spirit.

God's Holy Spirit dwells in the born again spirit. He communicates truth to us there. Problems arise when Christians rely on their own thoughts, feelings and self will instead of the leading of the Holy Spirit. That is why there are so many differing points of view. And with pride being so strong in many, they cling to their point of view no matter what.

​

God is also Spirit, Soul and Body in the Son who is God. So who do we resemble again? Someone who is solely Spirit or a God who is Spirit, Soul and Body?

A live spirit that was empty? What sought of birthing technique are you attributing to the God of all Heaven? He can't get His own work done right? Does the word say He gives birth to an empty spirit? Honestly I don't know from where people get these ideas.

We are not born twice spiritually, we are born once from above. Where does scripture say the Spirit indwells our spirit? The Holy Spirit indwells our body, not our spirit. 1Cor.6:19.

Yes, the Spirit speaks to our spirit for it is our spirit that deciphers spiritual phenomenon 1 Cor.2:14 and as we stand on His truth we let His word dwell in us (in our thinking, values and priorities) richly so we have an answer against the lies of the evil one.

 

[Gideon300]

Completely disagree.

That's right, spirits don't die which means we could never have had one to begin with because it can't die and we would not be dead in our trespasses and sins. We would be born spiritually alive and our spirits would be unaffected by the sin nature. You have it that the sin nature, while not killing the spirit (according to you), makes it as if it were as good as dead. All the while the scriptures state we are actually dead. So on the one hand you claim the spirit cannot die while on the other claiming we sort of died while also asserting that this deadened (according to you) spirit animates our intellect etc. Lunacy!

Human life is in the soul which is why we are called souls, not spirits. It is a third "ingredient" as we are tripartite. Adam and Eve were created and Christ was born tripartite the rest of us become tripartite when we are born (the Spirit giving birth to spirit, bringing something new into existence as that is what a birth is) from above.

Whether people disagree or not is irrelevant. Your claims are irrational as seen over and over again with dead/not dead, born/not born. Whatever way you slice it your theories do not make sense.

Again, ask yourself why do we need a spirit? For what reason did Jesus say we needed a spirit? Was it to animate soul life?

Jn.3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

You are wrong. You do not know what death means. It is not the end of existence. We are created in the image of God. God is Spirit so we must be spirit beings also. Yes, human life is in the soul. This is a consequence of Adam's disobedience. Adam made a catastrophic decision to choose the knowledge of good and evil instead of the fruit of the Tree of Life. His spirit was defiled and separated from God - in other words, dead.

God evicted Adam from Eden and prevented him from accessing the tree of life. If Adam had eaten from that tree in his fallen state, he could not have been redeemed. it was God's mercy that stopped Adam from becoming like Satan. There is no salvation for Satan or the fallen angels.

This is why the cross is essential for salvation. We are crucified with Christ. What does that mean? The body is not dead. The soul is the same. Why could God not just save us by imparting a new spirit to us? It's because the old, dead spirit must be removed first. This is the work of the cross in us the moment we are born again. If you are like me, I knew nothing of this when I was first saved.That does not matter. God includes us in Christ when we believe. The understanding comes later.​

 

[PaulThomson]

"Surely I was brought forth in iniquity; I was sinful when my mother conceived me." Psalm 51:5

It is obviously not possible for an unborn to sin in practice. However, a seed brings forth fruit according to its nature. People sin because they have the nature of a sinner. The nature does not change when they sin. It's the outworking of what is there already.

The Hebrew text does not say "I was sinful when my mother conceived me.” you are looking for translations that sound like they agree with you. You are not going to the source text.

הֵן־בְּעָווֹן חוֹלָלְתִּי וּבְחֵטְא יֶחֱמַתְנִי אִמִּי׃
Behold (הֵן), I was shapen (חוֹלָלְתִּי) in iniquity (בְּעָווֹן); and in sin (וּבְחֵטְא) my mother (אִמִּי) did conceive me (יֶחֱמַתְנִי).

Why are you just blindly parroting what somebody else has told you the text says, instead of studying the actual words of God to show yourself approved?

David’s mother conceived him in sin. That did not make David himself sinful from conception or from birth. Ypu dpn’t have to believe in total depravity to be a Christian. Why are you so in love with that theory of men?

 

[bytheblood]

Adam's death was spiritual, as evidenced by his desire to cover up and hide from God.

Psalm 51:5
"Surely I was brought forth in iniquity; I was sinful when my mother conceived me."

That was David, the man after God's own heart.

My Bible reads "... and in sin did my mother conceive me." Not I was sinful, how could you be sinful at conception? Born with a sin nature? yes, but sinful, no.

Adam's death was spiritual, as evidenced by his desire to cover up and hide from God.

Psalm 51:5
"Surely I was brought forth in iniquity; I was sinful when my mother conceived me."

That was David, the man after God's own heart.

Maybe consider there are traditions in the faith that teach the need for infant Baptism.

The idea being newborns and even the unborn will go to Hell.

Which can explain,not necessarily that it does explain the ideology shared by, @bytheblood, why some believe babies, children are by nature, bad. Unless or until they're taught to do good and behave well.

I DON'T hold to the belief that" newborns and even the unborn will go to hell ", don't connect that to me, please. I believe that until a person reaches the age of accountability and can understand their need of a Savior, God doesn't hold them responsible. He is just. I believe that all born of a woman, except Jesus of course, are born with a fallen, rebellious and selfish nature.

 

[bytheblood]

You are wrong. You do not know what death means. It is not the end of existence. We are created in the image of God. God is Spirit so we must be spirit beings also. Yes, human life is in the soul. This is a consequence of Adam's disobedience. Adam made a catastrophic decision to choose the knowledge of good and evil instead of the fruit of the Tree of Life. His spirit was defiled and separated from God - in other words, dead.

God evicted Adam from Eden and prevented him from accessing the tree of life. If Adam had eaten from that tree in his fallen state, he could not have been redeemed. it was God's mercy that stopped Adam from becoming like Satan. There is no salvation for Satan or the fallen angels.

This is why the cross is essential for salvation. We are crucified with Christ. What does that mean? The body is not dead. The soul is the same. Why could God not just save us by imparting a new spirit to us? It's because the old, dead spirit must be removed first. This is the work of the cross in us the moment we are born again. If you are like me, I knew nothing of this when I was first saved.That does not matter. God includes us in Christ when we believe. The understanding comes later.​

I agree with most of your post,( big deal you might say ). But I need you to explain and to show when and where, scripturally, " the old, dead spirit must be removed." I believe that the same spirit we are born with is the same one we carry throughout our life here on earth and on into eternity ( except if you deny Christ). I believe that our spirits, because of the fall of Adam, are separated from God by our inherited fallen nature, and have taken a secondary position to the soul. When we receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior the Holy Spirit takes up residence within us REGENERATING, by quickening( enlivening) our dormant( dead to the spiritual things of God) spirits, so that with the renewal of our minds and through obedience to God's Word, we can now be led by the Spirit, as was Adam before the fall" For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, THEY are the sons of God." Romans 8:14

 

[bytheblood]

Completely disagree.

That's right, spirits don't die which means we could never have had one to begin with because it can't die and we would not be dead in our trespasses and sins. We would be born spiritually alive and our spirits would be unaffected by the sin nature. You have it that the sin nature, while not killing the spirit (according to you), makes it as if it were as good as dead. All the while the scriptures state we are actually dead. So on the one hand you claim the spirit cannot die while on the other claiming we sort of died while also asserting that this deadened (according to you) spirit animates our intellect etc. Lunacy!

Human life is in the soul which is why we are called souls, not spirits. It is a third "ingredient" as we are tripartite. Adam and Eve were created and Christ was born tripartite the rest of us become tripartite when we are born (the Spirit giving birth to spirit, bringing something new into existence as that is what a birth is) from above.

Whether people disagree or not is irrelevant. Your claims are irrational as seen over and over again with dead/not dead, born/not born. Whatever way you slice it your theories do not make sense.

Again, ask yourself why do we need a spirit? For what reason did Jesus say we needed a spirit? Was it to animate soul life?

Jn.3:3
Jesus answered and said to him, “Most assuredly, I say to you, unless one is born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.”

First of all I

 

[Gideon300]

I agree with most of your post,( big deal you might say ). But I need you to explain and to show when and where, scripturally, " the old, dead spirit must be removed." I believe that the same spirit we are born with is the same one we carry throughout our life here on earth and on into eternity ( except if you deny Christ). I believe that our spirits, because of the fall of Adam, are separated from God by our inherited fallen nature, and have taken a secondary position to the soul. When we receive Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior the Holy Spirit takes up residence within us REGENERATING, by quickening( enlivening) our dormant( dead to the spiritual things of God) spirits, so that with the renewal of our minds and through obedience to God's Word, we can now be led by the Spirit, as was Adam before the fall" For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, THEY are the sons of God." Romans 8:14

Two objects cannot occupy the same space. This is God's promise found in Ezekiel 36:26:

"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh."

Jesus went to the cross to die for our sins. But God includes us in the death of Jesus. If all God had to do was to make our old, dead spirit alive again, we would not need to be crucified.

God's way of maturing the believer is always "change by exchange". The mind, emotion and will are not inherently evil. They reflect what is in the heart. So God's way is the initial death and resurrection to new life in Christ. Then our minds must be renewed. Out with the old way of thinking, in with the new. Our emotions must be used to express what is in our spirit man. We learn not to trust emotion, which is how we used to live. Out with the old way of reacting, in with the new. And most of all, the will has to be directed towards God instead of the old, independent, proud and rebellious choices we used to make before we were saved.

Again, God employs the cross. This time, it is our responsibility to choose God's ways, thoughts and attitudes in place of we learned in the world. This is a lifetime of learning. And comes only by taking up our cross.​

 

[bytheblood]

Two objects cannot occupy the same space. This is God's promise found in Ezekiel 36:26:

"I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; I will remove your heart of stone and give you a heart of flesh."

Jesus went to the cross to die for our sins. But God includes us in the death of Jesus. If all God had to do was to make our old, dead spirit alive again, we would not need to be crucified.

God's way of maturing the believer is always "change by exchange". The mind, emotion and will are not inherently evil. They reflect what is in the heart. So God's way is the initial death and resurrection to new life in Christ. Then our minds must be renewed. Out with the old way of thinking, in with the new. Our emotions must be used to express what is in our spirit man. We learn not to trust emotion, which is how we used to live. Out with the old way of reacting, in with the new. And most of all, the will has to be directed towards God instead of the old, independent, proud and rebellious choices we used to make before we were saved.

Again, God employs the cross. This time, it is our responsibility to choose God's ways, thoughts and attitudes in place of we learned in the world. This is a lifetime of learning. And comes only by taking up our cross.​

I am familiar with the scripture Eze. 36:26, and to whom God was speaking. He was speaking to His people, Jews, to whom He had given the Oracles of God, had delivered over and over again and who had rebelled against Him on numerous occasions. The Gentiles, of which am I, or was, did not have this background, " That at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world." Eph. 2:12 God was addressing people who knew, or should have known Him. Spirits don't die, and armed with that knowledge, when you look up dead, as in" dead in trespasses and sins " you find the word nekros Gr 3498 ; from an appar. prim. nekus(a corpse), dead( lit. or fig; also as a noun): dead. But knowing that spirits don't die I looked down one space to 3499 and found nek-ro-o FROM 3498; to deaden, i.e. (fig.) to subdue:- be dead, mortify. It's like, to me, when I read " Jacob hath I loved but Esau hath I hated." Rom. 9:13, I knew that was not God's nature and character. So I studied it out and found that that word hated can also mean "love less than " So because of our fallen nature inherited from Adam, our spirits were deadened or subdued as we were led by our souls instead of our spirits, as God had originally intended. Now in the fulness of time comes Jesus and to all who receive Him the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us and to quicken or enliven our spirits, that being is the only way we can receive from God, His Word, which are " spirit and life "(John 6:63). We had to have a spirit to receive anything from God, if not it would have been foolishness to our souls.

 

[sawdust]

First of all I

Can you get more petty? Strewth man, argue the details, not the grammar. Give real rebuttal to my actual arguments. Show how animals have spirits and don't just give a verse that has the word when context says it can just as easily mean breath. Show how a non-functioning spirit can animate life. Show how being born means reviving something already existing. Show how a spirit, born of God, unable to die, can suddenly become "deadened" by sin.

As far as I am concerned your beliefs are illogical. I don't expect you to give answer to any of the things above because I know you can't. You will simply repeat your mantra. So be it.

Have a nice Day.

 

[Gideon300]

I am familiar with the scripture Eze. 36:26, and to whom God was speaking. He was speaking to His people, Jews, to whom He had given the Oracles of God, had delivered over and over again and who had rebelled against Him on numerous occasions. The Gentiles, of which am I, or was, did not have this background, " That at that time you were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world." Eph. 2:12 God was addressing people who knew, or should have known Him. Spirits don't die, and armed with that knowledge, when you look up dead, as in" dead in trespasses and sins " you find the word nekros Gr 3498 ; from an appar. prim. nekus(a corpse), dead( lit. or fig; also as a noun): dead. But knowing that spirits don't die I looked down one space to 3499 and found nek-ro-o FROM 3498; to deaden, i.e. (fig.) to subdue:- be dead, mortify. It's like, to me, when I read " Jacob hath I loved but Esau hath I hated." Rom. 9:13, I knew that was not God's nature and character. So I studied it out and found that that word hated can also mean "love less than " So because of our fallen nature inherited from Adam, our spirits were deadened or subdued as we were led by our souls instead of our spirits, as God had originally intended. Now in the fulness of time comes Jesus and to all who receive Him the Holy Spirit comes to indwell us and to quicken or enliven our spirits, that being is the only way we can receive from God, His Word, which are " spirit and life "(John 6:63). We had to have a spirit to receive anything from God, if not it would have been foolishness to our souls.

If the spirit could simply be regenerated, the cross would not be necessary for the believer. The OT promises of God were for gentile believers as well as Jews.

What do you mean by death? What do you think that it means to have a dead spirit?

 

[Bible_Locket]

I DON'T hold to the belief that" newborns and even the unborn will go to hell ", don't connect that to me, please.

I didn't. If you reread my post you'll notice this.

In my opinion,anyone who thinks the jn born or newborns go to Hell when they die are Satanists.

 

[sawdust]

You are wrong. You do not know what death means. It is not the end of existence.

You misunderstand. I have never said death is the end of existence. We are not born with a spirit, it never existed in the first place to end. We are born spiritually dead which, is why we must be born from above, the Holy Spirit generating (for the first time) a human spirit within us. If you are physically dead, you have no body. If you are spiritually dead, you have no spirit. If you are not born, you do not exist. If you are not born spiritually, your spirit does not exist. Real simple.

We are created in the image of God. God is Spirit so we must be spirit beings also.

We are spiritual beings (if born from above), we are not spirit beings, that is the being of what we term angels Ps.104:4 Heb.1:7 and demons or otherwise known evil spirits. And as I pointed out, God the Son, whom all things were made by, through and for Col.1:15--18 is Spirit (Deity), Soul (human) and Body (in time of flesh, in eternity of spirit) 1Cor.15:44 Phil.3:21 So I ask again, which person of the Godhead do we resemble?

Yes, human life is in the soul. This is a consequence of Adam's disobedience. Adam made a catastrophic decision to choose the knowledge of good and evil instead of the fruit of the Tree of Life. His spirit was defiled and separated from God - in other words, dead.

Human life did not swap from his spirit to his soul because Adam sinned. He was always a living soul, never a living spirit.
He died the day He ate and His spirit returned to God who gave it. Ecc.12:7 But He didn't die physically on the day (as he should have, as Christ did), because God had a plan for this occasion, a Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. Rev.13:8
Adam was chosen to be in the garden, not because he would sin, but because he would repent. The Lord was showing the angels the difference between the unrepentant (Lucifer) and the repentant (Adam). The Lord God was showing Himself to be the generous and merciful God He truly is and not the harsh and judgmental God that was being thrown around by angels who questioned His word due to the punishment of the lake of fire which was created for the rebellious angels. Matt.25:41 We see the same arguments from men today that God is unjust by sentencing "good" (so called) men to hell (aka LoF). This is simply a reflection of the world system initiated by Satan. (cmp. Lam.3:22-24 )
Our spirits are born of God, just as flesh comes from the substance of flesh, our spirit comes from the substance of Spirit. Jn.3:6 Our spirit cannot die or be corrupted. Anything we believe that is not true bypasses our spirit and goes to darken our soul. Our spirit is what gives us the capacity to form a relationship with God. The flesh we receive now is born corrupted due to original sin. This is why God cannot give as a spirit at birth and why we are spiritually dead from birth and why we cannot be in a relationship with God, we have no capacity for it. Our spirit is for the purpose of understanding spiritual phenomenon, it is not for the purpose of animating physical life. Physical life has life in itself, God did not form a corpse for Adam to enter. We are souls, all through scripture we are referred to as souls, never are we called spirits. We are said to have spirits, but never be spirits. Adam and Eve (two souls) were created in Gen.1:27 "bara" (word attributed to something God alone is capable of doing) and while not always out from nothing, can mean out from nothing. At this point, it was two undefined individual souls (male and female He created them Gen1:27) We did not know them as the definitive Adam and Even until God brought them into the world.

God evicted Adam from Eden and prevented him from accessing the tree of life. If Adam had eaten from that tree in his fallen state, he could not have been redeemed. it was God's mercy that stopped Adam from becoming like Satan. There is no salvation for Satan or the fallen angels.

I am not sure what any of that has to do with what I said as redemption wasn't the topic. I will say it was God's mercy that allowed Adam to die physically as well otherwise a never ending lifetime as a sinner would have led the bravest man into hopeless despair. Adam was never going to be like Satan that is why he was chosen to be in the Garden.

This is why the cross is essential for salvation. We are crucified with Christ. What does that mean? The body is not dead. The soul is the same. Why could God not just save us by imparting a new spirit to us? It's because the old, dead spirit must be removed first. This is the work of the cross in us the moment we are born again. If you are like me, I knew nothing of this when I was first saved.That does not matter. God includes us in Christ when we believe. The understanding comes later.

Actually being crucified with Christ means we are to reckon our bodies as dead. We don't have dead spirits. I explained earlier why that is the case.

Rom.6:10-12
10For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God. 11Likewise you also, reckon yourselves to be dead indeed to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus our Lord. 12Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body, that you should obey it in its lusts.

1 Peter 2:24
who Himself bore our sins in His own body on the tree, that we, having died to sins, might live for righteousness—by whose stripes you were healed.

God did save us by giving us a new spirit. He saved us from spiritual death, from the consequence of sin. Rom.6:23 Now that we are able to relate to God the Father (who is Spirit) through being in Christ and sharing in His life. We can now be enlightened and relieved of the darkness in our souls, setting them free by the truth of His word and enabling us to counter the lies of the Devil as long as we are led of the Spirit and remain in fellowship by grace through faith.
Christ carried our sin in His body, for that is where the sin nature resides and from where sin originates within us. It is why the Holy Spirit dwells in our body to cleanse us so that our bodies can be the Temple of God. Our bosies, that is the sin nature in our bodies, deceives our minds and leads/keeps us in darkness for we nave no spirit to comprehend the truth of God (prior to salvation). If not for His mercy, grace and truth coming into this world, we would remain in darkness, never knowing the truth that sets us free.
There is much that can be said regarding how our salvation is worked out but one thing we can say for certain is because it rests on the Word of God, we are confident that those who belong to Christ are saved eternally and will never die a second death.

Yes, I was like you in that I knew nothing. It seems after walking 35 years with the Lord I understand so much more yet the more I know the more knowledge awaits before me. I will never run out of quetions, so many things yet to learn. We keep pushing forward to the end and in the Resuurection we will know as we have been known.

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see in a mirror, dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part, but then I shall know just as I also am known.

To know Christ fully, the only worthwhile thing in life and death.

 

[Bible_Locket]

Dichotomist Tradition hold to humans being comprised of Body and Soul/Spirit.
The Greek Orthodox,Evangelical and Pentecostal believers, hold to that understanding.

While the Dichotomist Tradition holds to the idea humans are born with a Body or Soul/Spirit. It is an either or regarding Spirit, Soul. Interchangable terms referring to a singular thing.
Roman Catholics, Eastern Orthodox, and Reformed traditoons and also Presbyterians hold to that belief system.

There is no Christian Denomination that teaches humans are born without a Spirit.

In fact,the very notion is actually indefensible. Because there is not a dongle Scripture that states humans are born without a Spirit.

 

[Bible_Locket]

I didn't. If you reread my post you'll notice this.

In my opinion,anyone who thinks the unborn or newborns go to Hell when they die are Satanists.

Editing what something in the system misspells,even after proof reading before posting.

One post that I wrote was so glitched up as to be nearly incoherent. And after it was found perfect in proof reading.

Unfortunately,it was also too late to correct it or delete.

 

[sawdust]

Editing what something in the system misspells,even after proof reading before posting.

One post that I wrote was so glitched up as to be nearly incoherent. And after it was found perfect in proof reading.

Unfortunately,it was also too late to correct it or delete.

Thank you for that as I was scratching my head as to what the "jn born" were.