The point is that souls existing in hell without suffering and in a state of limbo forever is not taught in GW.
Sinful atheists choose to belief God and hell do not exist and thus their destiny is eternal death.
Was Mary Sinless?
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The point is that souls existing in hell without suffering and in a state of limbo forever is not taught in GW.
Sinful atheists choose to belief God and hell do not exist and thus their destiny is eternal death.
Their punishment is everlasting separation from God.
Hell is a soul painfully experiencing that everlasting separation...
Because God is everlasting.
The pain of separation is everlasting.
OK, so let him tell you about how a Christians can live in sin and still be saved as he claims it's not possible for anybody to ever lose their salvation which is contrary to what the New Covenant teaches.
But the false teachers claim that was just a made up story the Jesus told at bedtime when He was trying to get the disciples to go to sleep one night, you know after they ate hot chocolate and ding dongs
You do not know what salvation is. Since I've been over this time and time again, I'll leave you to sweat over whether or not you are going to heaven when you die. I am already in heaven. I hope to see you there, but..........
It will be according to your faith. If you believe that your salvation depends on you, good luck for your your future.
You never sinned since you have been saved?
Not sinning is not what saved you.
If we could be saved by not sinning?
That would mean the Cross was unnecessary.
Know what happens to carnal believers who keep on refusing to walk righteously?
If anyone sees his brother sinning a sin which does not lead to death, he will ask,
and He will give him life for those who commit sin not leading to death.
There is sin leading to death. I do not say that he should pray about that.
1 John 5:16
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What we should really be careful is this stereotypical impression of "asceticism" on not only Christians, but all kinds of religious folks. Asceticism is defined as a "practice of strict self-denial as a measure of personal and especially spiritual discipline", originally it was like an intense boot camp training, the purpose was to be mindful and fully present, concentrating on your practice and eliminating all distractions. This is something we desperately need in today's "attention economy". However, over time it was twisted into a form of self-punishment as penance for sinful thoughts and deeds, especially sexual thoughts and deeds. All carnal pleasures, indulgences and desires are worldly corruptions, you must deny all of them and live in austere poverty in order to achieve spiritual purity and move closer to God. Instead of training sessions that strengthen the body, prolonged fasting and self flaggelation are the regular practices that weaken the body. And there're lots of texts in the NT seemingly support this view of "body bad, spirit good" such as Rom. 8:1-11, in 8:10 it literally reads "and if Christ is in you, the body is dead because of sin, but the Spirit is life because of righteousness." I'm personally indoctrinated by this view, now I struggle to enjoy life, even though I live in a relatively bourgeois life. This is why I'm vehemently against the trichotomy of "body, soul and spirit", it's under suspicion of promoting this twisted, oppressive medieval version of asceticism. I wanna go back to the original version of asceticism, spiritual discipline through bodily discipline, body and spirit working in concert as one SOUL.
You are having your own private battle at present. Truth would set you free by making it known what the actual problem is not, rather than what you seem to be imagining it to be. You struggle to enjoy life because you are desperately in need to gain sound teachings with detail and depth that would have God in turn, grant for you a capacity for life, and a prosperity of your soul.
The only truth I'd like to know is the difference between genuine, legitimate desire and the devil's temptation.
Well, despite what YOU say, I believe what the Apostle Paul wrote (inspired by God, the Holy Spirit), again, " And the very God of peace sanctify you WHOLLY; and I pray God your WHOLE (1) spirit and (2) soul and (3) body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thess 5:23. The WHOLE person is spirit AND soul AND body. You can argue that with Paul who, I'm sure, will refer you to the Holy Spirit. " For the Word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the DIVIDING ASUNDER OF SOUL AND SPIRIT, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart." Hebrews 4:12. When we hear and receive the Word of God(Jesus), that Word quickens (brings alive), regenerates, our spirits to the things of God. God's plan for man is to be renewed in our minds," Be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewal of your mind, that you may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God." Romans 12:2. When we receive Christ as our Savior our spirits are perfect, we are one Spirit with Him " But he that is joined unto the Lord is ONE SPIRIT." 1 COR. 6-17, and then sealed (vacuum packed), " In Whom you also trusted, after that you heard the Word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in Whom also after that you believed, you were SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise, Which is the earnest ( down payment ) of our inheritance until the redemption of the purchased possession, unto the praise of His glory." Eph. 1:13-14. Remember, " For as many who are led by the Spirit of God, THEY are the sons of God." Rom 8:14. The Spirit doesn't lead through your soul, He leads through your spirit, your spirit then is supposed to lead you soul, hopefully. The soul consists mainly our minds, wills and emotions. We renew our minds by taking God's thoughts as our own, so as NOT to be lead by our natural minds, wills or emotions.
"Soul" - nephesh/psyche by and of itself is defined as the WHOLE being of an individual. Despite what YOU say, I believe Apostle Paul's use of "soul" is subject to the Torah's definition, rather than what you think it means in modern English.
Definition and Scope of Usage
נֶפֶשׁ (nephesh) occurs roughly seven hundred fifty-four times, encompassing the whole range of human and creaturely life: the living being itself, the animating life-force, the inner self with its thoughts, emotions, and desires, and even the life that may be forfeited in death. Context, rather than a single English equivalent, determines whether translators render it as “soul,” “life,” “person,” “creature,” “appetite,” or related ideas.
Creation and the Breath of Life
From the outset nephesh is bound to God’s creative act. The first appearance designates sea creatures and birds as “living creatures” (Genesis 1:20). Humanity, however, receives a unique impartation: “Then the LORD God formed man from the dust of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being” (Genesis 2:7). Nephesh thus unites material form with divine breath, underscoring both kinship with other creatures and a distinct God-ward capacity.
Nephesh as the Seat of Life
Leviticus 17:11 identifies the life of the flesh with the blood, using nephesh for “life,” establishing the theological rationale for substitutionary sacrifice: “For the life of the creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for your lives upon the altar.” The shedding of blood signifies the surrender of life itself, foreshadowing the ultimate atonement in Jesus Christ.
Nephesh as the Individual Person
Frequently nephesh denotes an individual in census or narrative settings: “Abram took his wife Sarai, his nephew Lot, and all the people they had acquired” (Genesis 12:5); “All the persons who came from Jacob’s loins were seventy in number” (Exodus 1:5). The term emphasizes the worth of each human life, forming the basis for Israel’s laws protecting the individual (for example, Exodus 21:23).
I wonder what you would have to say about this?
Apparently, in Heaven a new realm of perception is manifested.
For in the heavenly realm human souls can be seen and heard without having an earthly body.
Revelation 6:9-10
When he opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the souls of those who had been slain
because of the word of God and the testimony they had maintained. They called out in a loud
voice, “How long, Sovereign Lord, holy and true, until you judge the inhabitants of the earth
and avenge our blood?”
grace and peace ............
This attests to Paul's teaching in 2 Cor. 5:1-5, we're created as WHOLE individuals, not wondering ghosts without body or roaming zombies without spirit. The use of soul therein points to the fourth one, "Nephesh as the Individual Person".
For we know that if our earthly house, this tent, is destroyed, we have a building from God, a house not made with hands, eternal in the heavens. For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee.
I do not claim Jesus lied, but I do think you ignore what Jesus said via Paul:
1. God is just. The Bible teaches that God is justness or righteousness (Rom. 3:25-26, 9:14, 2Thes. 1:6). This doctrine is called theodicy. It means that we should be careful lest our explanations of God’s will seem unloving or unfair. If a person cannot explain how a loving God could order the execution of babies (Josh. 6:17, 8:2), then possibly He did not do so. Another synonym for justness is goodness (Isa. 5:16).
Atheists have a negative or evil conception of God, which may be caused or reinforced by the words and deeds of those who claim to be theists (Rom. 2:24, 2Pet. 2:2). Who would want to believe in such a God? Rather than reject a caricature of God, an atheist should imagine the most perfect, loving and just God that he/she can, and choose to disbelieve in that benevolent Being, if good reason to do so can be found. God is NOT demonic!
What a person believes about the moral attributes of God affects how he or she interprets God’s Word in the Bible, which is called “hermeneutics”. A Scripture-based hermeneutic is explained in Lesson 2 entitled “The Christian Creed”, but it begins by believing that a person should triangulate from two key NT teachings in order to arrive at a correct understanding of problematic OT statements:
First, God loves and wants to save everyone (1Tim. 2:3-4, Ezek. 33:11, Acts 17:26-28); Christ died to show God’s love and the possible salvation of all (Rom. 5:6-8) including His enemies (ungodly, atheist, anti-Christ).
Second, God is just (2Thes. 1:6a, cf. Rom. 3:25-26 & 9:14, Deut. 32:4, Psa. 36:6, Luke 11:42, Rev. 15:3). All explanations of reality and interpretations of Scripture should conform to this certitude: “The Lord is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works.” (Psa. 145:17) The Judge is just. It would be better not to attempt an explanation of God’s Word than to state one that impugns God’s justice and love for all people (Joel 2:13, John 3:16).
Even the wrath of God (Rom. 1:18) is an expression of His love. Hebrews 12:4-11 offers the clue for harmonizing these two themes. This passage indicates that divine wrath is intended as discipline: to teach people to repent of their hatefulness or faithlessness (Pro. 3:12, Isa. 33:14-15 Rev. 3:19) before they die, after which divine wrath will be experienced justly without the opportunity for repentance.
If a righteous explanation cannot be found for a passage, then it should be considered as historical or descriptive of what occurred rather than as pedagogical or prescriptive of how people should behave. Of course, because God is loving and just, He does not tempt, trick, confuse or otherwise contribute to anyone’s sinfulness. On the contrary, God must be doing all that He can do without abrogating justice or volition (MFW) to influence people not to be deceived and become self-condemned (Jam. 1:13-17, Tit. 3:11, Isa. 45:19).
This realization should steer us away from the problematic opinion (a la Augustine via John Calvin) that God predestines most people for hell and lead us to affirm moral free will (MFW) as a paradoxical fact (Deut. 30:19). It is paradoxical, because it affirms both that God is sovereign and that God chooses not to control moral thinking, because doing so would nullify human responsibility for sin, making the biblical revelation of salvation based on repentance irrelevant and absurd.
TOP #19: On Judgment Day God will enforce just punishment via souls reaping what they have sown or done. [Rom. 2:5-6, cf. TOP #83 & #141] Punishment is just because God does not show favoritism (TOP #22). This truth is akin to karma (Gal. 6:7-9).
TOP #20: Those who persevere in seeking God’s salvation will receive eternal life. [Rom. 2:7-8&10, cf. 3:22-24 & 6:23b] Paul explains in detail that seeking to earn salvation by obeying moral law perfectly is impossible, so we should accept God’s plan of salvation/election (s/e) via faith in the Gospel of Christ’s atonement. Seeking echoes what Jesus commanded (in Matt. 7:7) and connects with the doctrine of perseverance (cf. Heb. 10:36 & Jam. 1:3-4).
TOP #21: Those who are self-seeking, who reject God’s truth and do evil will experience divine wrath or spiritual death. [Rom. 2:8-9, cf. 6:23a] Self-seeking may be termed “I-dolatry”.
TOP #22: For Jews, obeying the Mosaic Law will serve as the basis of divine judgment. [Rom. 2:9-13&16] Verse 11 teaches that “God does not show favoritism” (cf. Eph. 6:9, Col. 3:25, 1Pet. 1:17).
TOP #23: For Gentiles, their moral consciences will serve as the equivalent of the Mosaic Law for divine judgment. [Rom. 2:12-16] Sinful souls have a conscience or awareness of “the requirements of the law”, which may be combined with Romans 1:20 to teach that God’s power and moral nature or will may be perceived via creation and conscience (called natural revelation), thus those unfamiliar with God’s Word in Scripture have no good reason for resisting divine leading and choosing atheism/evil.
2. Evil/demonic souls are destroyed. MFW only exists when there is the possibility of choosing between two qualitatively opposite moral options that we call good and evil. These options are opposites because of essentially different consequences for choosing them. Choosing good results in blessing, life and heaven; and choosing evil results in cursing, death and hell (Deut. 30:19). This is why hell as well as heaven exists. It is the just consequence for choosing evil rather than God. The Spirit of God is good: love, peace and joy (Gal. 5:22-23). Therefore, whoever rejects the Lord is spiritually separated from Him (Isa. 59:2) and thereby chooses the evil or satanic spirit of hatred, strife and misery and reaps the just consequence called “hell” in the afterlife (Gal. 6:7-9, Heb. 9:27-28). These options were presented by Moses to the Israelites (DT 30:19), and Jesus referred to this fundamental choice in terms of a fish or egg versus a snake or scorpion (Luke 11:11-13). Life… or Curse? (Gen. 3:24, Rev. 22:1-2)
God created theoretical evil or the possibility of rejecting Him as an option that actualizes MFW/free human personality. As such it is necessary and even good (Gen. 1:31). Of course, it was wrong for Satan (1John 3:8) and humanity (Rom. 5:12) to make evil actual by choosing to Sin or reject Faith in God’s Lordship. The first people to choose the evil option were named Adam and Eve (Gen. 3:6). Sin: ignoring God/God’s Word.
Evil people grieve God and punish/torture themselves by experiencing delayed karma, just as those who experience appropriate justice during this earthly existence also punish themselves or reap what they have sown and send themselves to jail. This view makes souls responsible for breaking the rules rather than blaming evil on the judges (or Judge) who enforce the rules.
The purpose of earthly punishment is to promote repentance, but the reason for retribution in hell is to attain justice. It is difficult to imagine, but somehow even someone as evil as Hitler will receive perfect justice, perhaps experiencing the agony of the millions of deaths he caused in accordance with the principal of “eye for eye” (MT 5:38), after which their souls are destroyed forever (per John 17:12, Rom. 9:22, Gal. 6:8, Phil. 3:19, 2Thes. 1:9, 2Pet. 3:7 & Rev. 20:13-14).
You just said nothing....
When man was created God created the souls "out from nothing" - [bara, in the Hebrew]
So God created [bara] mankind in his own image,
in the image of God he created [bara]them;
male and female he created [bara] them.
Genesis 1:27
What was created by God at that point were male and female souls.
God, he created them;
male and female he created them.
Created the souls that God had just created 'out from nothing' ...
Now, in Genesis 2:7
And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground,
and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man
became a living being.
This is when God provided a physical body for Adam's soul.
Proving a body that enabled his immaterial soul to traverse and move about in the material creation.
God gathered elements of the earth and 'molded and formed' [Hebrew- jatsar] that body.
That "lifeless" body. No soul yet.
After, when the Lord breathed the soul into the nostrils of that body it first became alive in the material world.
Our body is our connection to the created material world.
Now, again. Consider this.
When we are resurrected?
It is no longer the same body we were born into in this creation.
Yet?
Our soul remains the same soul in a resurrection body, granting that soul greater abilities unknown before, to be manifested as God grants them.
Adam's body was not created out from nothing [bara] like his soul.
The soul is everlasting in God's image.
The body is merely a biological vehicle for the soul.
You are the driver.
The car is not you.
The soul drives the body.
grace and peace ........