Was Mary Sinless?

[Genez]

I chose messianic Judaism because Torah, the first five books, is the foundation of the entire bible, rather than any church doctrine or tradition; Christianity is the EXPANSION of Judaism, rather than alternative or replacement, as most Christians believe.

Christianity is not a mere expansion.
It is like a butterfly looking back at a caterpillar and trying to relate to it.

The Greek for "new creation" in the following passage, means Christians are an entirely new created thing.
Unlike anything that came before it.

​

Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; ​

behold, all things have become new. 2 Corinthians 5:17​

Problem is... too many Christians are failing to walk in the spiritual power potential that God has created them to have.

As for Judaism? I was born a Jew. Grew up Jewish... and found Christ when I was in college.
My big joy was finding a few good teachers who have the gift to dig in and find buried treasures that produce life when held.

grace and peace ..............

 

[Genez]

So, you claim that anyone born from parthenogenesis, a rare but not unheard event (potentially as high as 1 in 10,000 births) where male sperm is not involved, is born without sin?

No... there was a very real equivalent to a male sperm being supplied by the Holy Spirit to make sure that Jesus was not born as a clone.
It was the Holy Spirit who provided the needed genetic material to fertilize the ovum of Mary.

In effect. Jesus was born a sinless man, as Adam had been created from the Hand of God.

 

[Genez]

If Mary bore Him, she is the mother.

Mary was the mother of his humanity only.
Catholics jump the fence and try to say she was the mother of God.

 

[TruthDefender]

So, you claim that anyone born from parthenogenesis, a rare but not unheard event (potentially as high as 1 in 10,000 births) where male sperm is not involved, is born without sin?

Sin is not inherited. Sin is in the world, because Satan is in the world.

 

[TruthDefender]

Mary was the mother of his humanity only.
Catholics jump the fence and try to say she was the mother of God.

Why do you bring up Catholics? I’m not Catholic.

She bore Him; don’t you call the woman who bore you mom/ eema?

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Twain? Why are you speaking in old English?

That's a good question.

 

[Just_A__Follower]

We are not born with a 'sinful nature' but a 'human nature' polluted by sin. There is a difference.

Nah. Care to provide scripture to go along with your pelagian view?

 

[GWH]

Which christ are you talking about? The only true one's character is set up in the OT Judaism. I encourage you to educate yourself 1 Cor. 15:3, in particular, which I suppose we can at least agree, that the gospel message is encapsulated in this verse - "Christ died for our sins, according to the scripture", is this Paul's teaching or not? Well gues what, the scripture therein is the OT, and 'sin" is defined by the OT. Without the OT narrative, you won't know what you're saved from or saved for.

Fulfillment means something later completes something preceding.
Per 1Cor. 15:3 Jesus fulfilled OT prophecy of Messiah atoning for sin,
and the rest will be fulfilled when he returns at the Judgment.

 

[reneweddaybyday]

So? All of these are just validation of Gen. 3:19, nothing about decay or decomposition is mentioned.

Yeah, invisible to those two disciples, out of their sight.

What does that have anything to do with the resurrection or the empty tomb? Keep your red herring to yourself.

bless your heart ... hope/pray you have a blessed Passover and Resurrection day ...

.

 

[rewriter]

No... there was a very real equivalent to a male sperm being supplied by the Holy Spirit to make sure that Jesus was not born as a clone.
It was the Holy Spirit who provided the needed genetic material to fertilize the ovum of Mary.

In effect. Jesus was born a sinless man, as Adam had been created from the Hand of God.

Are you basing that on CLEAR scripture or your own understanding? And since God was involved in the birth of both Jesus and Sampson, why were they different?

 

[Karlon]

NO, MARY ABSOLUTELY NOT, WAS SINLESS! Romans 3:23- "for ALL have sinned & come short of the glory of God"!!!

 

[NightTwister]

No you can't, these were quotes from Deuteronomy 6:4–5 and Leviticus 19:18, Jesus didn't invent them. Are you even sure what "love" means? That's THE most abused word in English languge.

Understanding scripture doesn't depend on a person's understanding of any human language. It is understood by revelation through the Holy Spirit.

 

[rewriter]

NO, MARY ABSOLUTELY NOT, WAS SINLESS! Romans 3:23- "for ALL have sinned & come short of the glory of God"!!!

A very dangerous verse as it could be implying that Jesus sinned, and if one is not familiar with the concept of "tzekhut" that is a major issue.

 

[Karlon]

A very dangerous verse as it could be implying that Jesus sinned, and if one is not familiar with the concept of "tzekhut" that is a major issue.

no, doesn't implie Jesus sinned. God is the 1 doing the talking. all in the Bible must always be studied in context with proper translation noted.

 

[sawdust]

If Mary bore Him, she is the mother.

If she bore Him but had no part in His genetic makeup, as was suggested, then she would be His surrogate mother, not His biological mother.

 

[Karlon]

If she bore Him but had no part in His genetic makeup, as was suggested, then she would be His surrogate mother, not His biological mother.

& too that, if Jesus had a biological father, he would be sinful but that wasn't the case. the Holy Spirit miraculously impregnated Mary.

 

[rewriter]

no, doesn't implie Jesus sinned. God is the 1 doing the talking. all in the Bible must always be studied in context with proper translation noted.

God speaking is an assumption, not something provable, and the word "all" does not include an automatic exclusion for Jesus unless the reader inserts one, and such an act would be adding to scripture, something that scripture calls a huge "no-no".

I might also note that "proper translation" is another huge problem, there is sufficient variance among different translations that it is a serious issue if one has to determine which translation is "proper". Some potential translations are not even presented in any generally available biblical translation and 1 John 5:8 seems to be almost universally mistranslated as the Greek implies that it should read "and the three are one (thing)" rather than "in agreement". I have checked that with numerous Greek scholars, and all agree, but that translation raises the question of "what one thing", and that is problematic/

 

[Karlon]

God speaking is an assumption, not something provable, and the word "all" does not include an automatic exclusion for Jesus unless the reader inserts one, and such an act would be adding to scripture, something that scripture calls a huge "no-no".

I might also note that "proper translation" is another huge problem, there is sufficient variance among different translations that it is a serious issue if one has to determine which translation is "proper". Some potential translations are not even presented in any generally available biblical translation and 1 John 5:8 seems to be almost universally mistranslated as the Greek implies that it should read "and the three are one (thing)" rather than "in agreement". I have checked that with numerous Greek scholars, and all agree, but that translation raises the question of "what one thing", and that is problematic/

holyvheavens! another victim of "paralysis by analysis" read 2nd Peter 1: 20 & 21 & 2nd Timothy 3:16 & 17. there's NO WAY that God would refrain from leaving us a way to NOT understand His Bible. if there was, then why did He write it along with his Jesus & the Holy Spirit? also study verses 2nd Timothy 2:7 & 15. we also have the Holy Spirit to assist in understanding & our spirit too.

 

[UnoiAmarah]

Both Joseph and Mary were the earthly parents of Jesus/God the Son,

Thy father and thy mother shall be glad, and she that bare thee shall rejoice. Prov 23:25

FYI, that verse is not referring unto to Y-Chromosome Adam, Mitochondrial Eve and our most recent common ancestor.

and God the Father is the heavenly Parent of God Incarnate,

"...for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost." Matt 1:20
"...therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God." Luke 1:35

You know, the Holy Ghost; who is the Comforter, who is the Spirit of truth, who is the the LORD who is the God of the heaven above and the earth beneath, who is only begotten of the eternal One.
That is the reason I call Jesus the Son of God, because the LORD said to call him the Son of God.
Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise. John 5:19

in Whose image both male and female are created miraculously.
(Luke 2:48-51, John 1:1-14, Gen. 1:26-27)

Have you ever seen the Holy Ghost? He looks almost identical to the eternal God, who is being of invisible Light. While it is written that no man has seen the Father at any time, save he who is of God, he hath seen the Father. As far as likeness, as the eternal One has life in himself, he gave the Son to have life within himself.

 

[TruthDefender]

A very dangerous verse as it could be implying that Jesus sinned, and if one is not familiar with the concept of "tzekhut" that is a major issue.

Why dangerous? The Bible is the word of God to humans. It’s dangerous to humans who refuse to heed Him.

Jesus was God in the flesh/ and is God now, sitting at the right hand side of God the Father, King of the Universe.