Was Mary Sinless?

  • Christian Chat is a moderated online Christian community allowing Christians around the world to fellowship with each other in real time chat via webcam, voice, and text, with the Christian Chat app. You can also start or participate in a Bible-based discussion here in the Christian Chat Forums, where members can also share with each other their own videos, pictures, or favorite Christian music.

    If you are a Christian and need encouragement and fellowship, we're here for you! If you are not a Christian but interested in knowing more about Jesus our Lord, you're also welcome! Want to know what the Bible says, and how you can apply it to your life? Join us!

    To make new Christian friends now around the world, click here to join Christian Chat.
Lovette said:
I chose messianic Judaism because Torah, the first five books, is the foundation of the entire bible, rather than any church doctrine or tradition; Christianity is the EXPANSION of Judaism, rather than alternative or replacement, as most Christians believe.
Click to expand...

Actually, I think I just understood what you might mean by "expansion".
Yes, in Matt. 5 Jesus expanded the moral laws, redefining murder as hatred, for example.
Thus, Christ BOTH fulfilled AND expanded the Torah, thereby superseding it with the Gospel per Heb. 7:11-10:1 (cf. Gal. 3:28).

It is good you realize that being a Judaizer rather than a Christian/Messianic Jew is wrong.
 
  • Like
Reactions: JanineJ07
GWH said:
Actually, I think I just understood what you might mean by "expansion".
Yes, in Matt. 5 Jesus expanded the moral laws, redefining murder as hatred, for example.
Thus, Christ BOTH fulfilled AND expanded the Torah, thereby superseding it with the Gospel per Heb. 7:11-10:1 (cf. Gal. 3:28).

It is good you realize that being a Judaizer rather than a Christian/Messianic Jew is wrong.
Click to expand...
Actually, I meant it in the sense of Paul's expansion of his ministry into the Gentiles, as they're "grafted" into the olive tree of Israel.

I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. (Rom. 11:11-18)
 
Lovette said:
Actually, I meant it in the sense of Paul's expansion of his ministry into the Gentiles, as they're "grafted" into the olive tree of Israel.

I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles. Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!
For I speak to you Gentiles; inasmuch as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry, if by any means I may provoke to jealousy those who are my flesh and save some of them. For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? For if the firstfruit is holy, the lump is also holy; and if the root is holy, so are the branches. And if some of the branches were broken off, and you, being a wild olive tree, were grafted in among them, and with them became a partaker of the root and fatness of the olive tree, do not boast against the branches. But if you do boast, remember that you do not support the root, but the root supports you. (Rom. 11:11-18)
Click to expand...

Oh, okay, that meaning is true, too.
Just let Gal. 3:28 and Rom. 11 & 3:21-5:1 keep you from error.
 
Lovette said:
How about admitting that he didn't "walk out of the tomb" at all, since the tomb was already empty when the women arrived and the angel rolled the stone away?
Click to expand...
Huh? Sometimes I wonder if people actually put any thought into what is said before they respond. :confused:
 
  • Like
Reactions: GWH
Lovette said:
Yes, but His authority came from Moses, He was the prophet like Moses. God the Father scared the Israelites to death, a prophet like Moses they would listen.
Click to expand...
No, Jesus’s authority came from God the Father, since Jesus is the Son of God and He was from the beginning. Jesus is God the Son. But yes, Jesus was also a Prophet, Priest, and King of the Jews. 🙂

Does the pot’s authority to exist come from another pot, or does it come from its creator?

Lovette said:
“The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your midst, from your brethren. Him you shall hear, according to all you desired of the Lord your God in Horeb in the day of the assembly, saying, ‘Let me not hear again the voice of the Lord my God, nor let me see this great fire anymore, lest I die.’ “And the Lord said to me: ‘What they have spoken is good. I will raise up for them a Prophet like you from among their brethren, and will put My words in His mouth, and He shall speak to them all that I command Him. And it shall be that whoever will not hear My words, which He speaks in My name, I will require it of him. (Deut. 18:15-19)
Click to expand...
Yes, this is referencing Jesus Christ.
 
TruthDefender said:
No, Jesus’s authority came from God the Father, since Jesus is the Son of God and He was from the beginning. Jesus is God the Son. But yes, Jesus was also a Prophet, Priest, and King of the Jews. 🙂

Does the pot’s authority to exist come from another pot, or does it come from its creator?
Click to expand...
Nope, his power came from God the Father, his authority came from Moses. A glowing bush or a smoking mountain has no authority, only a human being does.
TruthDefender said:
Yes, this is referencing Jesus Christ.
Click to expand...
And this is why his authority came from Moses, the first authoritative figure to the nation of Israel.
 
Lovette said:
Nope, his power came from God the Father, his authority came from Moses. A glowing bush or a smoking mountain has no authority, only a human being does.

And this is why his authority came from Moses, the first authoritative figure to the nation of Israel.
Click to expand...
So you don’t believe Jesus was/ is God in the flesh?
 
Lovette said:
Nope, his power came from God the Father, his authority came from Moses. A glowing bush or a smoking mountain has no authority, only a human being does.

And this is why his authority came from Moses, the first authoritative figure to the nation of Israel.
Click to expand...
So you don’t believe Jesus was/ is God in the flesh, and His Son?

Jesus’ authority comes from the Father:

“For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.””
‭‭John‬ ‭12‬:‭49‬-‭50‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
 
TruthDefender said:
So you don’t believe Jesus was/ is God in the flesh, and His Son?

Jesus’ authority comes from the Father:

“For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. And I know that His command is everlasting life. Therefore, whatever I speak, just as the Father has told Me, so I speak.””
‭‭John‬ ‭12‬:‭49‬-‭50‬ ‭NKJV‬‬
Click to expand...
Is the Father's authority exercised through fire and brimstone? Or through his human mediums?
 
TruthDefender said:
So you believe He was just a man?
Click to expand...
See, you just don't get it. I ask you again, does a glowing bush, a smoking mountain, a pillar of fire or any angel of God has authority over Israel? God struck a few naughty ones instantly dead, did that create any authority? Did any of those theophanies even remotely resemble a "father" figure? Or maybe, just maybe, did God establish his authority through his chosen ruler over Israel, starting with Moses?
 
sawdust said:
The discussion which, you rose yourself, was around physical relationship, not spiritual.

Genesis 3:15
And I will put enmity Between you and the woman, And between your seed and her Seed; He shall bruise your head, And you shall bruise His heel.”
Click to expand...

Seed refers to the relationship of Satan with humanity, primarily spiritual, but described in physical terms.
 
GWH said:
Seed refers to the relationship of Satan with humanity, primarily spiritual, but described in physical terms.
Click to expand...

That is called a dual prophesy.

One was representative...
Man = Satan's seed.

The other was literal in meaning....
Messiah born of a woman.
 
  • Like
Reactions: GWH
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back