Was Mary Sinless?

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bytheblood said:
How can the new covenant be a " restoration of the old?
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The old was broken by the Israelites due to their idolatry, Moses smashed the tablets out of rage, the law was a temporarty fix, the full restoration was accomplished by Christ. You can argue that it's new for the Gentiles who never received the Abrahamic covenant in the first place, but for Israel, it's a restoration.
 
bytheblood said:
Again, " AND THE LORD SPAKE UNTO MOSES ***FACE TO FACE ***, as a man speaketh unto his friend..........." Exodus 33:11 You need to tell the writer of Exodus, I believe his name is Moses, and argue that with him. I believe what he wrote because it is inspired by the Holy Spirt. Do you speak to you friend through an angel, or face to face?
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Nope, the Lord spoke to Moses through a pillar of cloud in the Tabernacle, Ex. 33:10. It is explicitly written that no man can see God directly and live. This is deception through omission.

But He said, “You cannot see My face; for no man shall see Me, and live.” (Ex. 33:20)
 
bytheblood said:
The spirit is not the soul and the soul is not the body but all three are one, aren't they ?
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I don't think so. Soul, i.e. "living being", is body activated by the spirit, Gen. 2:7. It's not a separate entity.
 
I don't know why this is a controversial topic for some, but no, I don't think the "virgin" Mary was sinless. It just does not make sense that she would be sinless. Yes she carried Jesus and was chosen by God to do so, BUT that does not mean she was perfect. Only Jesus was/is perfect, and no other human can truly be perfect. We must be "born again", repent and believe in the gospel/Jesus. Mary most likely was saved and is in heaven, but she was in no way perfect.
 
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Lovette said:
No, nothing's changed, all deceased still go to Hades. If all go to heaven, how is anyone supposed to be resurrected from the grave? You've nullified the blessed hope of resurrection.
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The dead body is in one place.
The saved soul is in another.

You are taking things too literally.
Not everyone who died has a body in a grave.

What about WW2 when a British solder was a direct hit by a bomb?
His body was vaporized.
No way to bury that body in a grave!

Besides?
The body we will have won't be anything like our old body.
It will be entirely new and different in its composition.
 
Genez said:
The dead body is in one place.
The saved soul is in another.

You are taking things too literally.
Not everyone who died has a body in a grave.

What about WW2 when a British solder was a direct hit by a bomb?
His body was vaporized.
No way to bury that body in a grave!

Besides?
The body we will have won't be anything like our old body.
It will be entirely new and different in its composition.
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That is dualistic gnosticism, i.e. "immortal soul trapped in a mortal body". This is a fundamental philosophy is conventional western wisdom, that "material things bad, spiritual things good"; that is not biblical. Jesus taught that nobody has ascended to heaven except he himself, Jn. 3:13. No servant is greater than their master, since the master went to the grave, I don't see how any servant can bypass it.
 
Lovette said:
That is dualistic gnosticism, i.e. "immortal soul trapped in a mortal body". This is a fundamental philosophy is conventional western wisdom, that "material things bad, spiritual things good"; that is not biblical. Jesus taught that nobody has ascended to heaven except he himself, Jn. 3:13. No servant is greater than their master, since the master went to the grave, I don't see how any servant can bypass it.
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You might want to consult Enoch and Elijah about that.
 
Lovette said:
That is dualistic gnosticism, i.e. "immortal soul trapped in a mortal body". This is a fundamental philosophy is conventional western wisdom, that "material things bad, spiritual things good"; that is not biblical. Jesus taught that nobody has ascended to heaven except he himself, Jn. 3:13. No servant is greater than their master, since the master went to the grave, I don't see how any servant can bypass it.
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This is not gnosticism.
The resurrection is only referring to humans getting their glorified body.
ALL will receive this type of body.
A person cannot enter heaven with a flesh body....
Jesus did not return to heaven with a flesh body but a glorified body.

You're doing what many do...
reading the bible on your own and attempting to understand Christian theology which
is not simple.

No one goes to hades anymore.
The gates of heaven have been opened.
We go directly to where we are fated to go.

This is done with the body that is glorified at death.
JUSTIFICAITON
SANCTIFICATION
GLORIFICATION


You could accept this or not.
I find, on these threads, that many odd ideas are presented for discussion.
This is one of them.

Paul said that to be absent from the body is to be present with the Lord.
Jesus is not present in hades.
He is present in heaven.

Hades was until Jesus' death.
It is no longer necessary.


2 Corinthians 5:6-7 CEV
As long as we are in these bodies, we are away from the Lord. 7But we live by faith, not by what we see. 8We should be cheerful, because we would rather leave these bodies and be at home with the Lord.


Where is the home of the Lord?
 
Lovette said:
I don't think so. Soul, i.e. "living being", is body activated by the spirit, Gen. 2:7. It's not a separate entity.
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You've incorrectly understood Genesis 2:7
Understanding scriputre incorrectly always leads to confusion about scripture.

If the body is activated by the spirit...
and the spirit is necessary to be saved....
it would mean that eveyrone is saved....
since everyone is a living being.
 
ZoomerX said:
I don't know why this is a controversial topic for some, but no, I don't think the "virgin" Mary was sinless. It just does not make sense that she would be sinless. Yes she carried Jesus and was chosen by God to do so, BUT that does not mean she was perfect. Only Jesus was/is perfect, and no other human can truly be perfect. We must be "born again", repent and believe in the gospel/Jesus. Mary most likely was saved and is in heaven, but she was in no way perfect.
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This is a very complex topic and I don't think we could push it aside one way or the other.

What I believe is that God would not place His Son in a body tainted with original sin, or the sin nature - call it what you will.

Beyond this, I don't believe neither you nor I can offer scriptural evidence for either belief.

For all have sinned...is not proof of anything.
God can make any exception He wants to.

Paul does not supersede God's desires.
 
Toknow said:
You've incorrectly understood Genesis 2:7
Understanding scriputre incorrectly always leads to confusion about scripture.

If the body is activated by the spirit...
and the spirit is necessary to be saved....
it would mean that eveyrone is saved....
since everyone is a living being.
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Nope, only those who accept Jesus as Lord and savior are saved, those who don't are "condemned already".
 
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GWH said:
How about a third option of learning more of GW and harmonizing it with previous learning to become a better witness for Christ?
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Or how about just enjoy a happy Easter and celebrate the resurrection of the Lord?
 
GWH said:
Maybe not of you, but I am one of everyone in union with Him. :love:
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Guess you missed my meaning. Jesus said He overcame the world and told us to be at peace. He did not invoke our help in order to overcome.

John 16:33
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
 
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Lovette said:
That is dualistic gnosticism, i.e. "immortal soul trapped in a mortal body".
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Sweety.... Does your dead body go to heaven when your soul does? NO!

We are to be absent from the body and face to face with the Lord.
Having no body! Our soul goes to heaven. 2 Corinthians 5:8

The resurrection will provide a new body unlike our old body!
A body just like the Lord's glorious body! Philippians 3:21



You conflated two different realities into one.
It has nothing to do with gnosticism, though they do share similar terms, the realities are not the same.
 
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sawdust said:
Guess you missed my meaning. Jesus said He overcame the world and told us to be at peace. He did not invoke our help in order to overcome.

John 16:33
These things I have spoken to you, that in Me you may have peace. In the world you will have tribulation; but be of good cheer, I have overcome the world.”
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No, but you missed my meaning: He also enables His seed to overcome evil.
 
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