Was Mary Sinless?

[JayWalker]

The Bible does not tell us why it was done.

We know why it was rolled away and that is so all will see it was rolled away so they could look in side the tomb and see that Jesus isn't there so all would know He has risen from the dead.

How much repeating and repeating must someone like you keep pumping it up?

The confused need to hear things numerous times before they get it you know.

One would think you believe that if you did not keep such things going that you are afraid you may lose your salvation

No, it's the greasy grace crowd that will lose their salvation since heresy is a work of the flesh and is on God's list of things that cause people to not be accepted in to His Kingdom.

 

[JayWalker]

Who handed you the sceptre?

The Holy Ghost.

I quoted that verse in response to your comment that intimated Jesus was too "royal" for menial tasks. You seemed to have forgotten what makes a man great.

It's odd that you don't realise why I quoted it.

What's odd is you forgetting Jesus is no longer in His earthly ministry and is now the Risen Lord of Glory seated at the Right Hand of the Father so yeah He has the help doing the menial tasks these days.

 

[GWH]

Interesting.
Always nice to speak to persons that actually THINK.
The resurrection certainly was a kind of big bang.
I believe we have the effect of it stored up in a church in Torino.

As to confusion...would have to agree with Acts 2:12
But John 20:9 ??
Didn't this make John understand?

John 20:9
6When Simon Peter got there, he went into the tomb and saw the strips of cloth.

7He also saw the piece of cloth that had been used to cover Jesus' face. It was rolled up and in a place by itself.

8The disciple who got there first then went into the tomb, and when he saw it, he believed.

9At that time Peter and the other disciple did not know that the Scriptures said Jesus would rise to life. 10So the two of them went back to the other disciples.


Never noticed that verses 8 and 9 KIND OF conflict.
What did John believe in v erse 8?

I believe that AT THAT TIME, in verse 9,,,,means the time (period) before John and Peter went to the tomb.

Well, I think the resurrection was closer to being the planting of a mustard seed that would become big or worldwide.

I agree that v. 9 must mean that the disciples had remained skeptical of the Christ's resurrection until they saw the empty tomb.

 

[GWH]

Whatsoever you'd like to call it, new covenant is restoration of the old, which the Israelites broke with their idolatry.

Also, NT gospel is summerized in 1 Cor. 15:3, Christ died for our sins, according to the Scripture (OT). Any other gospel, even preached by an angel, is from the devil. Two most common forms of these other gospels are "prosperity gospel" and "social gospel", it is very easy to fall for either one of these without your awareness, if your understanding is not according to the OT scripture.

You say tomato; the NT says tomatah (Rom. 3:21-5:1, Heb. 7:11-10:1, Eph. 2:8-10, John 3:16, etc).

You omit 1Cor. 15:4-5, the key part of the Gospel (1Cor. 15:14-17).

Re sola scriptura: both.

 

[sawdust]

The Holy Ghost.




What's odd is you forgetting Jesus is no longer in His earthly ministry and is now the Risen Lord of Glory seated at the Right Hand of the Father so yeah He has the help doing the menial tasks these days.

Well, I'm seated in the heavens now Eph.2:6 and I'm finding this conversation too menial so I will leave it for others to sweep up and throw out.

 

[bytheblood]

The old was broken by the Israelites due to their idolatry, Moses smashed the tablets out of rage, the law was a temporarty fix, the full restoration was accomplished by Christ. You can argue that it's new for the Gentiles who never received the Abrahamic covenant in the first place, but for Israel, it's a restoration.

Why would you restore something that has already been fulfilled? The law fixed nothing, it was given, for the most part, to show man that he, in and of himself, could never meet it's requirements and that he (we)

This is a very complex topic and I don't think we could push it aside one way or the other.

What I believe is that God would not place His Son in a body tainted with original sin, or the sin nature - call it what you will.

Beyond this, I don't believe neither you nor I can offer scriptural evidence for either belief.

For all have sinned...is not proof of anything.
God can make any exception He wants to.

Paul does not supersede God's desires.

"And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God MY SAVIOUR." Luke 1:46 Question, if Mary is/was sinless why would she need a Saviour???

 

[bytheblood]

And yet There is only ONE God. Weird.

Deuteronomy 6:4
Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD:

1 Corinthians 8:6
But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord
Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Isaiah 44:6
Thus saith the Lord the King of Israel, and his redeemer the Lord of hosts; I am the first, and I am
the last; and beside me there is no God.

John 10:30
I and my Father are one.

Revelation 1:8
I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and
which is to come, the Almighty.

James 2:19
Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well





Yep.

1 John 2:23
Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: (but) he that acknowledgeth the Son
hath the Father also.

" But unto the Son He( the Father ) saith, Thy throne , O GOD, is forever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of THY KINGDOM." Hebrews 1:8 If the Father calls Jesus God what's the problem? Jesus, who lived as the example of how we are to live, said that He only spoke what the Father said, shouldn't we?

 

[bytheblood]

I don't think so. Soul, i.e. "living being", is body activated by the spirit, Gen. 2:7. It's not a separate entity.

" And the very God of peace sanctify you WHOLLY; and I pray God your WHOLE (1) spirit AND (2) soul AND (3) body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thess. 5:23. Man is a three part being. The body and soul and spirit are not the same, but are one.

 

[JayWalker]

If the Father calls Jesus God what's the problem?

It's no problem for me!

" And the very God of peace sanctify you WHOLLY; and I pray God your WHOLE (1) spirit AND (2) soul AND (3) body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thess. 5:23. Man is a three part being. The body and soul and spirit are not the same, but are one.

Yep, man is a three part being

These people would be so much better off if they would just accept what God says in His Word.

 

[Toknow]

Who made you the thread moderator and chief?

Oh the irony.

 

[Toknow]

Why would you restore something that has already been fulfilled? The law fixed nothing, it was given, for the most part, to show man that he, in and of himself, could never meet it's requirements and that he (we)

"And Mary said, My soul doth magnify the Lord. And my spirit hath rejoiced in God MY SAVIOUR." Luke 1:46 Question, if Mary is/was sinless why would she need a Saviour???

I guess that takes care of that!
Luke 1:46 must certainly be the key.
or is it ?

Let me ask you this....
Why do YOU need a savior?

If Mary was sinless,,,
Why would SHE need a savior?

Do you believe the creator of the universe could so whatever He wants to do?
Or do you limit Him in some way?

Mary needed a savior to save her from sinning.
YOU need a savior because you already have sinned.

God did not place His Son...who is GOD...in the body of a sinful person...
in the body of a person that had the sin nature from birth.

This is why Mary was immaculately conceived....
she never had any sin in her.

BTW,,,I'm not Catholic so you could concentrate on showing where, from scripture, it states that Mary sinned somehow.
It does not.
So we cannot ASSUME anything except what we read.

I tend to not be dogmatic about doctrine that cannot be absolutely proven with scripture....and the IC really cannot...
however we also shouldn't discard what some in the early church believed to be true and what makes common sense, at least to me.

 

[Lovette]

You say tomato; the NT says tomatah (Rom. 3:21-5:1, Heb. 7:11-10:1, Eph. 2:8-10, John 3:16, etc).

You omit 1Cor. 15:4-5, the key part of the Gospel (1Cor. 15:14-17).

Re sola scriptura: both.

I say in for a penny first, in for a pound later. If you can't get a hold on 1 Cor. 15:3, you can't move in the right direction, neither can you dig deeper and get it right later.

 

[Lovette]

Why would you restore something that has already been fulfilled? The law fixed nothing, it was given, for the most part, to show man that he, in and of himself, could never meet it's requirements and that he (we)

We were talking about the Abrahamic covenent in Gen. 12:1-3, not the Mosaic law. The law was a fix for the broken covenant, the covenant itself lasts till kingdom come.

 

[Lovette]

" And the very God of peace sanctify you WHOLLY; and I pray God your WHOLE (1) spirit AND (2) soul AND (3) body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thess. 5:23. Man is a three part being. The body and soul and spirit are not the same, but are one.

The trichotomical view is dangerous, as it leads to erroneous theologies. Human being is not a microcosm of the holy trinity.

"Is it important to conclusively decide between dichotomy and trichotomy? Perhaps not; however, a word of caution is appropriate. Some who hold the trichotomist view have erroneously taught that God can bypass our soul/intellect and communicate directly with our spirit; such teaching leads to irrational mysticism. Other churches have used the trichotomous position to teach the possibility of Christians being demon-possessed. Because they see the soul and spirit as two separate immaterial aspects within the Christian, they postulate that one can be indwelt by the Holy Spirit and the other can be possessed by demonic forces. This teaching is problematic in that there are no biblical references that those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit can be simultaneously possessed by demons."

Do we have two or three parts? Body, soul, and spirit? Dichotomy or trichotomy? | GotQuestions.org

Do we have two or three parts? Body, soul, and spirit? Is humanity dichotomous or trichotomous?

www.gotquestions.org

 

[Lovette]

" And the very God of peace sanctify you WHOLLY; and I pray God your WHOLE (1) spirit AND (2) soul AND (3) body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ." 1 Thess. 5:23. Man is a three part being. The body and soul and spirit are not the same, but are one.

If you're utterly convinced that soul is an indespensible part, then it'd be the rebellious part that quenches the spirit, the feeling Paul personally had struggled with, I'll give you that.


Has then what is good become death to me? Certainly not! But sin, that it might appear sin, was producing death in me through what is good, so that sin through the commandment might become exceedingly sinful. For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am carnal, sold under sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand. For what I will to do, that I do not practice; but what I hate, that I do. If, then, I do what I will not to do, I agree with the law that it is good. But now, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh) nothing good dwells; for to will is present with me, but how to perform what is good I do not find. For the good that I will to do, I do not do; but the evil I will not to do, that I practice. Now if I do what I will not to do, it is no longer I who do it, but sin that dwells in me. (Rom. 7:13-20)

 

[Toknow]

The trichotomical view is dangerous, as it leads to erroneous theologies. Human being is not a microcosm of the holy trinity.

"Is it important to conclusively decide between dichotomy and trichotomy? Perhaps not; however, a word of caution is appropriate. Some who hold the trichotomist view have erroneously taught that God can bypass our soul/intellect and communicate directly with our spirit; such teaching leads to irrational mysticism. Other churches have used the trichotomous position to teach the possibility of Christians being demon-possessed. Because they see the soul and spirit as two separate immaterial aspects within the Christian, they postulate that one can be indwelt by the Holy Spirit and the other can be possessed by demonic forces. This teaching is problematic in that there are no biblical references that those who are indwelt by the Holy Spirit can be simultaneously possessed by demons."

Do we have two or three parts? Body, soul, and spirit? Dichotomy or trichotomy? | GotQuestions.org

Do we have two or three parts? Body, soul, and spirit? Is humanity dichotomous or trichotomous?

www.gotquestions.org

Got Questions,,,which I did not click on BTW,,,,,
IF it is teaching what YOU state it is....
it's incorrect.

The trichotomy model makes more sense and helps one to understand their condition better.

The spirit does have an effect on the soul.

However, anyone may believe what they will...
but neither side should be misrepresented.

 

[Lovette]

Got Questions,,,which I did not click on BTW,,,,,
IF it is teaching what YOU state it is....
it's incorrect.

The trichotomy model makes more sense and helps one to understand their condition better.

The spirit does have an effect on the soul.

However, anyone may believe what they will...
but neither side should be misrepresented.

both sides are doomed to be misrepresented if you deviate from "living being", the biblical defition of soul, and you fail to specify which "spirit", 'cause there're coutless other spirits, which are repeatedly mentioned and warned in the NT. Everyone born alive is born with a "human spirit", but nobody is born with the Holy Spirit until being baptized with the Holy Spirit.

 

[GWH]

I say in for a penny first, in for a pound later. If you can't get a hold on 1 Cor. 15:3, you can't move in the right direction, neither can you dig deeper and get it right later.

GW says you are looping rather than headed in the right direction.

 

[Toknow]

both sides are doomed to be misrepresented if you deviate from "living being", the biblical defition of soul, and you fail to specify which "spirit", 'cause there're coutless other spirits, which are repeatedly mentioned and warned in the NT. Everyone born alive is born with a "human spirit", but nobody is born with the Holy Spirit until being baptized with the Holy Spirit.

You're conflating SPIRIT with BEING.

We are human BEINGS
not human SPIRITS.

No need to specify which spirit since your entire premise is incorrect.



Genesis 2:7 CEV
7 The Lord God took some soil from the ground and made a man.+ God breathed life into the man, and the man started breathing. 8The Lord made a garden in a place called Eden, which was in the east, and he put the man there.


NASB
7Then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
NET
7The LORD God formed the man from the soil of the ground and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man became a living being.
YLT
7And Jehovah God formeth the man -- dust from the ground, and breatheth into his nostrils breath of life, and the man becometh a living creature.

 

[Toknow]

both sides are doomed to be misrepresented if you deviate from "living being", the biblical defition of soul, and you fail to specify which "spirit", 'cause there're coutless other spirits, which are repeatedly mentioned and warned in the NT. Everyone born alive is born with a "human spirit", but nobody is born with the Holy Spirit until being baptized with the Holy Spirit.

Just to add that I agree that a living being does, indeed, have a soul.
And we receive the spirit of God, which is added to our body and soul,
upon believing.