And we're waiting for the scripture that says they weren't and were able to receive the things of the Spirit while they were spiritually dead.
Was Mary Sinless?
- Thread starter randyk
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And we're waiting for the scripture that says they weren't and were able to receive the things of the Spirit while they were spiritually dead.
I believe God, the Holy Spirit, draws people to the Father through Jesus Christ and although those earthly things testify of a Creator, the preached Word or anointed testimony of another reaches your spirit ( My words that I speak unto you they are spirit, and they are life John 6:63) not your natural soul, to which it is foolishness. Spirit to spirit, flesh to flesh remember?
You made the claim first, prove it, scripturally. BTW, what do you have a team behind you, you said "we're waiting"
)You said they are not born again, that is being spiritually dead.
You claimed being born again is a revitalisation of the spirit to connect to God.
Well? Alive to God or not? Spiritually alive or spiritually dead? Do you even know what it means?
I don't think you have a clue.
David had a spirit because he was born again, this is how He could receive the things of the Spirit and know the Lord God.
You don't even listen. You think by my reckoning God must have put a flawed spirit in him? I have stated categorically He cannot which, is why we are not born with a spirit as only God can generate the human spirit. This is why we must be born again. First time physically, second time spiritually. Not two births spiritually which, is what you intimate with your born "again" insistence.
Jesus spoke to Nicodemus who only had the OT at the time, yet Christ expected him to understand what he was talking about. So your excuse is not lack of evidence, it is lack of understanding.
More justification of self I see and I'm not your brother.
Why did you say that?
Man is naturally born soul and body.
No human spirit until born again.
It is the human spirit that connects our soul with God.
It is with our soul that we believe.
God saves our soul.
For “you were like sheep going astray,” but now you have returned
to the Shepherd and Overseer of your souls. 1 Peter 2:25
Not.... Shepherd and Overseer of your spirits.
I have only bumped into A VERY few who think what you do. And, always wondered why you do.
For the Bible does not teach it.
You misunderstand. We are made in the image of God, correct? God is Spirit. He only communicates with spirit. Adam was created good, but he was not complete. God offered the Tree of Life and the Tree of the knowledge of good and evil to Adam and Eve. They chose to disobey God and chose the fruit of the tree of knowledge.
The spirit is the part of Adam that died to God. Adam was still capable of thinking, feeling and choosing. These are aspects of the soul. God drove Adam and Eve out of Eden. He did not want them to become immortal as that would leave them incapable of being saved.
Once a person is born again, the spirit is made alive. This is clear because the soul is not instantly perfected. If it was, then there would be instant Christian maturity. Yes, we need our souls to be delivered from all kinds of bondages. We need our minds renewed and our self will to be turned towards God's will. We need to learn to live by faith, not by feelings. The spirit is the part of us made alive. The soul needs delivering, but it is the organ of expression, not the source of life. Lord Jesus dwells in the born again spirit, not in the soul.
Most scripture arguments are pretty standard, the same scriptures keep getting quoted over and over again. There is no scripture that clearly states that fallen angels are demons, but there are very few passages that even refer to them, and most do not even occur in the Protestant Bible, which greatly restricts what passages can even be considered.,And I'm sorry you would be so patronizing thinking I can read your mind. Have you seen some of the scriptures people put forward to support their views in this forum?
That's two, to what is the third one you are referring?
The words angel and demon both mean messenger so it is describing their role, not their being. There is no evidence to suggest God created a third species, there is only spirits and souls.
The fallen angels locked away are referring to a specific group that fell during the days of Noah. Other angels, Satan being the origin of such rebellion, fell prior to the creation of man.
Now is the time to see something more than you have been seeing.
Yes... God is spirit.
But, the Son of God - Who is God?
He is uniquely also Soul!
Angels are spirit and were created in God's image.
Yet? Man is Soul and was also created in God's Image as souls.
Here are some often times overlooked OT passages that reveal God is also having Soul!
It is man (not angels) who when created, who was modeled after the Son of God!
We are failing to see the high value God places on a soul!
Here are some often times overlooked OT passages that reveal the Son of God (Jesus)
is being spirit and also being a Soul!
'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new. Moreover,
I will make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not reject you.'I will also
walk among you and be your God, and you shall be My people." Lev 26:10-12
And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah,
so that his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel. Judges 10:16
Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone
loving violence his soul certainly hates." Psalm 11:5
“Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons,
the Sabbaths, and the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred
meeting. Your New Moons and your appointed feasts My soul hates; They are a trouble
to Me, I am weary of bearing them.. Isa 1:13-14
But my righteous one will live by reason of faith, and, if he shrinks back, my soul has no
pleasure in him." Heb 10:38
Angels were modeled in the Image of the Holy Spirit! = Spirit + spirit!
Man was modeled in the Image of the Lord God of Israel! =Spirit + soul!
It took me a while for this one to sink in.
It goes deep.
Both are God!
The image of God is a physical nature in your estimation?
How are you discerning between demon activity and sin nature activity?
There is no scripture that clearly states fallen angels are not demons.
So, what then? You will make stuff up to suit?
Like I said, the words angel and demon are simply designating role, not type of creature.
The scriptures only speak of two distinct species that are not classed as animals and they are spirits and souls.
Whether you call them fallen angels or demons, they are both evil spirits of the same family in rebellion against God.
There is also no scripture that clearly states that demons are fallen angels. And those scriptures that reference fallen angels are relying on scripture that the Protestants do not recognize as scripture. Now you claim that the terms "angel" and "demon" are simple designations of role, not distinct types of entities, would you care to back that up with clear, unambiguous scripture?
You accuse me of making stuff up to suit, yet you seem to be doing the exact same thing.
Now I also trust scripture when it claims that the heavens and earth proclaim God's glory and that what can be known about God is available from the creation, thus I use the creation to comprehend difficult and/or ambiguous statements in the Protestant scriptures, as well as other scriptures recognized by Christians (Protestants like to claim a lock on proper scripture, but that is a purely human claim, not supported by scripture, only by circular arguments). But why then do you retreat to a RCC position of elevating tradition to a level equal with scripture to defend your chosen stance, even if you do not directly claim tradition, but merely use its arguments.
How could Abraham be declared righteous unless he were born again?
How could any unregenerate person be declared righteous???
John 3:3~~Jesus responded and said to him, “Truly, truly, I say to you, unless someone is born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.”
John 3:7~~~Do not be amazed that I said to you, ‘You must be born again.’
John 3:9~~Nicodemus responded and said to Him, “How can these things be?”
John 3:10~~Jesus answered and said to him, “You are the teacher of Israel, and yet you do not understand these things?
Seems even the teachers and students of today don't understand these things. Don't be a modern Nicodemus.
I think you need to read your original statement again. "No human spirit until born again." Not true. That's all I was saying.
My bad....
There is someone here who thinks man is spirit.
The way you started out I assumed it was you.
I now see that was not what you were getting at.
You already said that.
It's in the meaning of the words. Both words mean messenger/delegate/provider which is a description of what they do, not what they are. We have come to use the words to distinguish between good and bad spirits. Angels and demons are both spirits in nature, either referred to as evil spirits/demons Lk.2:8 or ministering spirits Heb.1:14 in scripture.
What is it with people nowadays that they can't tell the difference between a statement and a question? You've given nothing to uphold your position other than a vague claim and I'm wondering what you are on about. I haven't made anything up. Look up for yourself the meaning of the words angel and demon and you will see what I said was true.
What can be known about God from creation is limited to His Godhead and His eternal power Rom.1:20 so trying to derive answers to complex questions would be somewhat foolish in my book as the creation is not designed to answer them.
So, what then? We throw out tradition? Again you give nothing except make vague claims.
If you have an argument proving demons and fallen angels are two distinct species then put it forth logically and systematically and we can look at it. Otherwise, why should I waste time arguing against the air.
You made the claim first, prove it, scripturally. BTW, what do you have a team behind you, you said "we're waiting"
I already have shown you from the scripture.
"We" was a reference to Genez and I as we are both arguing with you regarding man not having a spirit before they are born again.