Was Obama right?

[Historicist]

I guess some people do not wish to hear or discuss anything.

I gave you the greek for the word nation. Which can be translated nation, People group, Gentile (non jewish) or heathen.

The exact same word is used in matt 6: 32 -[SUP]32 [/SUP]For after all these things the Gentiles seek. For your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.

God said he took it from them (Israel as a nation or people group) and gave it to another group of people (nation or group) Did this happen? Can we prove it?Or was it one nation? As YOU want us to believe?

lets look at the evidence..

1. Was the kingdon given to one nation? No. People who entered the kingdom came from many different nations, Israel, Rome, and Asia
2. Did any of these nations take control of the kingdom, and responsibility given originally to Israel, (The OT Church) to keep the oracles of God and spread the gospel to the nations? NO! it was held by the church, which after 70 AD, was held by the Gentiles (even though many jews were a part of it)
3. Is their scriptural proof?well I already gave it, but since people do not wish to comment on passages I give, or read up on it. I guess I will post it.


Romans 11:11–12 (NKJV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP]I say then, have they stumbled that they should fall? Certainly not! But through their fall, to provoke them to jealousy, salvation has come to the Gentiles (Same greek word translated nation in matt 24) . [SUP]12 [/SUP]Now if their fall is riches for the world, and their failure riches for the Gentiles, how much more their fullness!


Romans 11:15 (NKJV)

[SUP]15 [/SUP]For if their being cast away is the reconciling of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead?


Romans 11:25 (NKJV)
[SUP]25 [/SUP]For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles (same greek word translated nation in matt 24) has come in.

what happens when the fullness of the gentiles comes in??

ALL ISRAEL WILL BE SAVED

whats this mean? The kingdom is returned to Israel. with as scripture says, christ as her king!

but some people do not want to see this.

You are trying to tell us that "the kingdom of God" (Matt. 21:43) is going to be given---to the people it was taken from. This is confusion to say the least.

Your entire argument is based on the mistaken notion that the people (Judean nation) the kingdom was taken from were the entirety of Israel. This could not be further from the truth. The Judean Pharisees and their loyalists were only a small portion of the total Israelite population at that time, a fact you conveniently ignore.

Also, I specifically asked that you identify the ethnicity of the Christians called "Gentiles" in the NT epistles. This you did not do. All you did is dogmatically assume that, because they are called "Gentiles" they could not have been Israelites. Thus do you build another error upon the first. You do not understand that when "the kingdom of God" was taken from the Judean Pharisees it was not taken from Israel. It was taken from a portion only of Israel.

I will ask again that you identify the ancestry of Christians called "Gentiles" in the NT epistles. And again, be specific. Tell us if they were Edomites, Canaanites, Eskimos, Pacific Islanders, or whatever. Do not just dogmatically say that, because they were not Jews, they could not be Israelites. Their ethnic back round (if you are willing to accept it) is in the context of Romans and other NT epistles.

The bottom line is that the kingdom of God was never taken from God's Israel covenant people, from the Judean nation yes, but they were only a small portion of Israel at that time.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are trying to tell us that "the kingdom of God" (Matt. 21:43) is going to be given---to the people it was taken from. This is confusion to say the least.

No. I did not say it. Paul said it. Daniel was told it in his prophesies, as well as many other prophets. And since their words were inspired by God. God said it.

Your argument is with him. Not me.

 

[Historicist]

you will notice that the top is based on percentage of people responding to polls self-identifying as "Christian"
and that there are many countries with a higher percentage of respondents in that category than the USA.

i agree completely that checking a box next to the word "christian" on a census form is no measure of the heart of a man.
but what, do we just trust your emotional opinion over how people respond when directly asked what category their religious belief falls under? are you the one that judges mens hearts, or is God?
obviously only the Lord knows the heart. men don't even understand their own hearts.

how do you know there is no "bible belt" in Brazil? in Ghana? in Slovenia?
isn't that your own patriotic pride talking?

when you say the Pew Research foundation, US census and CIA purposefully colored the map blue i think you're reaching a bit, my friend. it's true though that this data reflects people who are Catholic as much as it does people who go to no church and read no bible but if asked, would say they are "christian" rather than "muslim" or "hindu" etc. again though, when you refer to a poll saying "78% of Americans are christian" -- you believe that, but you don't believe the same poll when it's applied to any other country?

in the end God knows the hearts of men, and this kind of statistic is probably overestimating % in every country.

i'm also asked, "when did God take the kingdom of heaven away from the USA and give it to Botswana?"

my friend, when did God call America "His chosen people" ?
only men called America this. only American men. did you forget that Mormons call Utah "God's chosen state" ? Salt Lake City was founded by heretical men that call themselves "christian" -- do we accept their testimony? why then should we accept America's testimony that she has some divine authority to do as she pleases with the world? Mormons send missionaries all over the world, and few send missionaries to Utah. is that some sort of "proof" ?

God has never called any nation "His people" but Israel.

posthuman, you are of the mindset which is oblivious to the fact that Christendom was and is Eurocentric. You, apparently, consider it pure coincidence that the New Covenant, that which was promised to, and made with, "the house of Israel and with the house of Judah" (Jer. 31:31; Heb. 8:8), is woven into the history of one people only, the Anglo-Saxon, Celtic, Germanic, Scandinavian and related Europeans. Are you really so naïve as to think that this is pure coincidence? Or, are you so brainwashed with the idea that Israel rejected Jesus and the New Covenant that you cannot see the forest for the trees? Have you not read where, in chapters 8-10 of Hebrews it clearly states that the New Covenant, that which Jesus ratified on that night of the Last Supper, was in effect 2000 years ago? Why do those of your mindset ignore and deny this? Is it not because you are trying to identify God's Israel covenant people falsely, as "...them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are of the synagogue of Satan" (Rev. 2:9; 3:9)? The Pilgrims and the Puritans, the Europeans who founded America even stated that their purpose in doing so was to establish the kingdom of God. The Bible and Christianity are woven into American culture like no other nation in history. Again, is this mere coincidence?

1 Corinthian 15 tells us that, to inherit the kingdom of God, one must obtain "a spiritual body" (v. 44), "incorruption" (v. 53), "immortality" (v. 54). It also tells us that these three things will be obtained by the dead in Christ and those alive in the same on that day, "the last day." Without these three one is not fit to inherit the kingdom with Jesus on resurrection day. Who then, in this resurrection, will be disproportionately represented if not an historically Christian people? How can, historically, a non-Christian people (the dead in Phariseeism) be Israel when they will not rise in the resurrection. The doctrine of the resurrection proves that latter day Israel cannot be, historically, the non-Christian people you falsely identify as Israel. Think about this. Think about the fact that the non-Christians you identify as "Israel" will not rise in the resurrection, cannot therefore inherit the kingdom of God, and are not therefore "the Israel of God."

 

[RedTent]

Not long ago I started a thread on CC suggesting all Christians start using their power in the Lord to stop the trend of government to legislate against what is God's place to legislate. I pointed out that we are giving our money to Hollywood to things that fill our mind with sin. The thread was hardly looked at, and there was very little said about it being a good idea.

Scripture tells us we are to be able to give up our lives for the Lord, but we can't even give up an immoral TV show!

 

[J-Kay-2]

Well we know he is not Christian, how can anyone be and support Gays, Abortion.

I about fell over this morning. my FIL has been a Democrat all his life. He is 86, he said today that he no longer calls himself a Democrat, that Obama runied that when he filpped on Gays. I was shocked.

He was hard core and has given money. I have never given a cent to the Republicans.....LOL It really made me feel good to know he has turned on Obama.

The bad thing is we older people see it, but, the younger people don't.

Running late finding this. But I want to tell you we knew what we were
up against before he was elected. Then of course people were desperate
for a messiah. Remember ? He was going change things. Well, he kept
his word didn't he ?

He is making life hell for many ill friends I am in contact with, with his
great Obamacare. ( He does not want it to be called Obamacare, he
wants it to be just "healthcare.") As for the young people not knowing
it is because they have not known what truth, justice and morality is.
They haven't lived as long as we have to know what the past is all about
and why the present is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Now for FIL ? My husband and I were Dems up until before the first election
of O because we did back him and the info I had on him was enough to
scream ... NOOOOOO !!!! Well, you know he made it. And to make matters
worse ? He made it again. Only by this time we went to the :::Gasp::::::
Reps, side. Big mistake.... Now we are simply Independent....

Personally I believe we are soooo close to being a socialist country and
the people are just giving him the boost he needs. He is going to others
countries and they love him. Hmmm. People loved Hitler too.

Someone asked what is his religious affiliation. Well, he is no Christian.
Hey, his nose is growing. He is Muslim. And if he was Christian and since
the Muslims hate Christians....... well you figure it out for yourselves.

Glad someone can see through the smoke screen and lies. Sadly the
people are no longer free for very long. We the people believe in the
Lord Jesus Christ as Savior AND Lord. No other God but our Creator
God Almighty ~ Blessed be the Lord ~

 

[J-Kay-2]

Not long ago I started a thread on CC suggesting all Christians start using their power in the Lord to stop the trend of government to legislate against what is God's place to legislate. I pointed out that we are giving our money to Hollywood to things that fill our mind with sin. The thread was hardly looked at, and there was very little said about it being a good idea.

Scripture tells us we are to be able to give up our lives for the Lord, but we can't even give up an immoral TV show!

Red Tent .... I did not see your post you are speaking of. I do not go to movies.
We don't watch any TV programs that promote homosexuality or immorality. I am
sorry I did not see it. I don't get over here every day. But I will try to find it later.
In mean time you know I agree with you and admire your wisdom. ~ J~K~2

 

[Historicist]

Not long ago I started a thread on CC suggesting all Christians start using their power in the Lord to stop the trend of government to legislate against what is God's place to legislate. I pointed out that we are giving our money to Hollywood to things that fill our mind with sin. The thread was hardly looked at, and there was very little said about it being a good idea.

Scripture tells us we are to be able to give up our lives for the Lord, but we can't even give up an immoral TV show!

You are mostly correct, all most Christians want to be told is that they are going to heaven (a reward not offered in scripture). When told that Jesus preached "the gospel of the kingdom" (Matt. 4:23) and that this kingdom (Christian theocracy) will be on earth ("the meek shall inherit the earth" [Matt. 5:5]) they react with indifference and rejection.

 

[J-Kay-2]

Now for FIL ? My husband and I were Dems up until before the first election
of O because we did back him and the info I had on him was enough to
scream ... NOOOOOO !!!! Well, you know he made it. And to make matters
worse ? He made it again. Only by this time we went to the :::Gasp::::::
Reps, side. Big mistake.... Now we are simply Independent....

I made typo regarding supporting him... We did NOT support him.
I didn't catch it in time to edit.

 

[dcontroversal]

Not long ago I started a thread on CC suggesting all Christians start using their power in the Lord to stop the trend of government to legislate against what is God's place to legislate. I pointed out that we are giving our money to Hollywood to things that fill our mind with sin. The thread was hardly looked at, and there was very little said about it being a good idea.

Scripture tells us we are to be able to give up our lives for the Lord, but we can't even give up an immoral TV show!

I agree with this and call it the one eyed god of this age.....Yes I do watch news and a few science/discovery/history shows, but can turn it off and go days without it, don't have to have it and will turn it if trash comes on.

 

[J-Kay-2]

Running late finding this. But I want to tell you we knew what we were
up against before he was elected. Then of course people were desperate
for a messiah. Remember ? He was going change things. Well, he kept
his word didn't he ?

He is making life hell for many ill friends I am in contact with, with his
great Obamacare. ( He does not want it to be called Obamacare, he
wants it to be just "healthcare.") As for the young people not knowing
it is because they have not known what truth, justice and morality is.
They haven't lived as long as we have to know what the past is all about
and why the present is wrong, wrong, wrong.

Now for FIL ? My husband and I were Dems up until before the first election
of O because we did back him and the info I had on him was enough to
scream ... NOOOOOO !!!! Well, you know he made it. And to make matters
worse ? He made it again. Only by this time we went to the :::Gasp::::::
Reps, side. Big mistake.... Now we are simply Independent....

Personally I believe we are soooo close to being a socialist country and
the people are just giving him the boost he needs. He is going to others
countries and they love him. Hmmm. People loved Hitler too.

Someone asked what is his religious affiliation. Well, he is no Christian.
Hey, his nose is growing. He is Muslim. And if he was Christian and since
the Muslims hate Christians....... well you figure it out for yourselves.

Glad someone can see through the smoke screen and lies. Sadly the
people are no longer free for very long. We the people believe in the
Lord Jesus Christ as Savior AND Lord. No other God but our Creator
God Almighty ~ Blessed be the Lord ~

Matt 24
[SUP]3 [/SUP]And as he sat on the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world?

[SUP]4 [/SUP]And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man lead you astray.
[SUP]5 [/SUP]For many shall come in my name, saying, I am the Christ; and shall lead many astray.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]And ye shall hear of wars and rumors of wars; see that ye be not troubled: for these things must needs come to pass; but the end is not yet.
[SUP]7 [/SUP]For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom; and there shall be famines and earthquakes in divers places.

[SUP]8 [/SUP]But all these things are the beginning of travail.

[SUP]9 [/SUP]Then shall they deliver you up unto tribulation, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all the nations for my name's sake.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]And then shall many stumble, and shall deliver up one another, and shall hate one another.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]And many false prophets shall arise, and shall lead many astray.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]And because iniquity shall be multiplied, the love of the many shall wax cold.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]But he that endureth to the end, the same shall be saved.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a testimony unto all the nations; and then shall the end come.

 

[Denken]

Not long ago I started a thread on CC suggesting all Christians start using their power in the Lord to stop the trend of government to legislate against what is God's place to legislate. I pointed out that we are giving our money to Hollywood to things that fill our mind with sin. The thread was hardly looked at, and there was very little said about it being a good idea.

Scripture tells us we are to be able to give up our lives for the Lord, but we can't even give up an immoral TV show!

As long as people have a choice to turn off the TV or change the channel on something they dont agree with I dont see an issue with TV. Just because i believe something doesnt make it right or wrong for everyone else. Personal choice and the freedom to express ones self is a great thing whether the topic is up to your standards or not.

 

[AgeofKnowledge]

I wish more immoral people on the left thought as you do but they are hell bent on imprisoning and bankrupting every moral person in the country that refuses to violate their moral conscience and participate in their immoral events.

As long as people have a choice to turn off the TV or change the channel on something they dont agree with I dont see an issue with TV. Just because i believe something doesnt make it right or wrong for everyone else. Personal choice and the freedom to express ones self is a great thing whether the topic is up to your standards or not.

 

[Denken]

I wish more immoral people on the left thought as you do but they are hell bent on imprisoning and bankrupting every moral person in the country that refuses to violate their moral conscience and participate in their immoral events.

I mean it is an industry, if its not popular its ganna be bad for business. TV isnt a charity.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are mostly correct, all most Christians want to be told is that they are going to heaven (a reward not offered in scripture). When told that Jesus preached "the gospel of the kingdom" (Matt. 4:23) and that this kingdom (Christian theocracy) will be on earth ("the meek shall inherit the earth" [Matt. 5:5]) they react with indifference and rejection.

1. Heaven is not a reward, it is a gift. NO ONE can earn entrance to tje new heavens and earth, it can only be given to them.
2. The meek inheriting the earth is those who find the peace which surpasses all understanding Paul spoke of. That is a life God wants us all to have, in all the evil. calamity and distress surrouning us, he offers us peace. Only the meek in Christ will find it

They are two different things offered to all people. 2 aspects of salvation. One temporal and physical. One eternal and spiritual.

Neither is earned. both are gifts. offered by God. but only through Christ.