E
He thinks, Peter should not be in the Bible either 
See how ridiculous this sounds ... Grief
See how ridiculous this sounds ... Grief
Was Paul a false apostle according to you ?
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to be honest. you have to remove acts also.. Luke was a liar also. se we can discount Luke, since he lied in his second letter of the acts, he must have lied in his gospel, the whole NT must be a sham according to him.
I agree with you in the overall snse, and included my prior response ti show my stance.
We have no hint that Kepha (Peter) considered Shaul's writings "Scripture" but certianly he considered them inspired words of truth, however easily misunderstood.
IMO this Scripture proves Shaul was legit and shows the reason for the accusations.
2 Kepha 3:15-16, "And recognize that the longsuffering of our Savior is salvation; just as our beloved brother Shaul, in accordance with the wisdom given to him, has written to you, As also in all his letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which those who are unlearned and unstable twist, as they also do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."
Shaul was educated by the Pharisiee and roman schools, if I remember correctly the school of Tiberius, so his worldly education was beyond any of the other writers of the Scroptures. He writes in a way that is hard to understand, I think all can agree when first read Shaul's writings they must be read over and over to grasp what he is saying, and looked at as not changing anything but supporting what Yahshua said and did. I think to try to understand his words outside that context is certian error. Yahweh inspired Kepha to write this passage about Shaul's words being easily misunderstood, I think this has to be taken into consideration when studying. I do want to add that IMO most churches these days almost exclusively read Shaul and ignore the rest, which creates fertile ground to twist his words, and what happens is people carry these false interpretations on and then others know these are false but then point to Shaul being false insted of correctly putting the blame on misunderstanding.
We have no hint that Kepha (Peter) considered Shaul's writings "Scripture" but certianly he considered them inspired words of truth, however easily misunderstood.
IMO this Scripture proves Shaul was legit and shows the reason for the accusations.
2 Kepha 3:15-16, "And recognize that the longsuffering of our Savior is salvation; just as our beloved brother Shaul, in accordance with the wisdom given to him, has written to you, As also in all his letters, speaking in them about these things, in which are some things hard to be understood, which those who are unlearned and unstable twist, as they also do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction."
Shaul was educated by the Pharisiee and roman schools, if I remember correctly the school of Tiberius, so his worldly education was beyond any of the other writers of the Scroptures. He writes in a way that is hard to understand, I think all can agree when first read Shaul's writings they must be read over and over to grasp what he is saying, and looked at as not changing anything but supporting what Yahshua said and did. I think to try to understand his words outside that context is certian error. Yahweh inspired Kepha to write this passage about Shaul's words being easily misunderstood, I think this has to be taken into consideration when studying. I do want to add that IMO most churches these days almost exclusively read Shaul and ignore the rest, which creates fertile ground to twist his words, and what happens is people carry these false interpretations on and then others know these are false but then point to Shaul being false insted of correctly putting the blame on misunderstanding.
E
one must remember, Paul wrote to different churches with different problems. thus he may appear to write different things. But if we look, his message was always the same.
I think the message Peter was trying to get at is people misinterpreting paul to teach an easy believism gospel. Say a few words and your saved, live however you want it does not matter. Paul never taught this, but one could see how it would be easy to misinterpret him to be saying this (in fact MANY have said paul taught this)
I was on the verge of permanently losing belief in God, but in one last desperate effort tried to find Him. "Knock and the door will be opened," the Bible assures; but it wasn't so. Jesus said that God loves the lost sheep more than the one safe in the fold. So why would God set obstacles in the path. The atheist has the answer; the theist has excuses, or so it seems to me.
That’s almost laughable. I did not want command of God, I wanted to know God truly existed. I just needed to know. That would have been enough.
You seem not to understand the atheist mind. We simply do not believe in the existence of gods of any kind.
Demanding of him is your choice of words. It was never mine. I think Christian’s such as yourself, not understanding why God would choose to ignore a sincere seeker, assume we must be ruffling His feathers in some way. That we are putting him off and causing him to ignore us. You can’t accept intellectually that a sincere person would be ignored by God, so you imagine some infraction must have taken place. Yet I was sincere and I was ignored.
Six years. That’s how long I was a seeker. I wasn’t after a multitude of ways for God to show himself. I only needed on. Sometimes believing, sometimes not, but always searching. Never did I hear from God.
I permanently lost all belief after six years. The time to believe has passed.
That’s almost laughable. I did not want command of God, I wanted to know God truly existed. I just needed to know. That would have been enough.
You seem not to understand the atheist mind. We simply do not believe in the existence of gods of any kind.
Demanding of him is your choice of words. It was never mine. I think Christian’s such as yourself, not understanding why God would choose to ignore a sincere seeker, assume we must be ruffling His feathers in some way. That we are putting him off and causing him to ignore us. You can’t accept intellectually that a sincere person would be ignored by God, so you imagine some infraction must have taken place. Yet I was sincere and I was ignored.
Six years. That’s how long I was a seeker. I wasn’t after a multitude of ways for God to show himself. I only needed on. Sometimes believing, sometimes not, but always searching. Never did I hear from God.
I permanently lost all belief after six years. The time to believe has passed.
U
Cycel ... I believe you. I believe you when you said "that would have been enough" for you ... just having that assurance that He is closer than a brother. That He truly is gentle and humble in heart ... and that we will find rest for our souls in Him. There has been no greater comfort to me in the many hardships and trials of life than just knowing that Jesus Christ my Lord was right there beside me. No miracle or supernatural occurence could have brought me the peace that the knowledge of His presence did. So I can relate to what you have said. But I won't lie to you and pretend that I am always in this place. Sometimes ... and more often than I would like to admit, I allow myself to get caught up in the things of this world that when all is said and done, ... are meaningless ... and of no eternal value. I don't believe that any christian is "always walking in perfect harmony with Christ". And when we/they are not, we feel as you have surely expressed you felt. It is extremely difficult for some to intellectually accept that God has forgiven them and received them unto Himself when they have sincerely asked for it. They don't believe they deserve it. Truth is ... we don't deserve it. We all fall short of the mark. What did God "not do" to make you believe that He didn't hear the cries of your broken and contrite heart ? Six years huh ? Would it be worth it to you if you received the answer you sought in seven ?
Still, I sense there is still a hunger, an empty hole in your heart. Or you would not be in a Christian forum. I pray for you that God will reveal himself. Not necessarily in a supernatural way. With incredible fireworks, miracles and trumpets sounding. But rather, you would hear God in the silence of your own heart. That you would realize he has always been there, you just did not know how to recognize him.
"Be Still and know that I am God." Psalm 46:10
[video=youtube;C01lLxEo3xM]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C01lLxEo3xM[/video]
Praying for you, Cycel!
(meanwhile...........back to the topic)
One thought I have is that some of the confusion concerning the Apostle Paul and his writings/teachings may well arise from the fact that he wrote in two specific styles.
1) Thus sayeth the Lord........when writing in this style, Paul was stating that there was no room for debate whatsoever, it was thus sayeth the Lord, and that was how was to be.
2) It would be better that/I would rather that.......when writing in this style, Paul was giving advice on how those new believer's he was writing to could/should live in order to have a more rewarding and less troubled life in Christ. He was not writing these as "thus sayeth the Lord," in other words, these writings were not commandments from God, rather they were inspired "advice."
If believers would approach the reading of Paul's Epistles with this in mind, I think there would be far fewer misunderstandings of what he was saying, and how it was to be taken.
One simple example of "I would rather that...." was when Paul wrote about marriage......Everyone should know that Paul started off saying that he would rather that men and women did not get married........This sounds as if he is teaching against what Jesus taught [if we take it as thus sayeth the Lord], but it really isn't. What Paul was saying is that if a new believer dedicated himself/herself to the service of God, and He alone, there would be far fewer earthly problems arise to cause him strife in his earthy life......Goodness, all we have to do is consider the door we open up when we marry, and while we marry one woman/man, we get far more! In-laws! For while it may not suppose to be true, the reality is that we not only marry the woman/man, we marry their family as well, and all the baggage that comes with them. And this can and usually is/proves to be a distraction from our dedicating our lives to serving God.........Children come into play as well.........WHILE I THANK GOD FOR MY DAUGHTER AND GRANDSON, I also am aware that at times my concentrating on their earthly needs was a true distraction.........no, I am not perfect......I would think others here could identify with this.
So, trying to keep this short, so that it will actually be read........We must, when reading Paul's Epistles, identify when he was writing in what style to assure that we understand the difference between "thus sayeth the Lord," and "I would rather that...."
God bless.
One thought I have is that some of the confusion concerning the Apostle Paul and his writings/teachings may well arise from the fact that he wrote in two specific styles.
1) Thus sayeth the Lord........when writing in this style, Paul was stating that there was no room for debate whatsoever, it was thus sayeth the Lord, and that was how was to be.
2) It would be better that/I would rather that.......when writing in this style, Paul was giving advice on how those new believer's he was writing to could/should live in order to have a more rewarding and less troubled life in Christ. He was not writing these as "thus sayeth the Lord," in other words, these writings were not commandments from God, rather they were inspired "advice."
If believers would approach the reading of Paul's Epistles with this in mind, I think there would be far fewer misunderstandings of what he was saying, and how it was to be taken.
One simple example of "I would rather that...." was when Paul wrote about marriage......Everyone should know that Paul started off saying that he would rather that men and women did not get married........This sounds as if he is teaching against what Jesus taught [if we take it as thus sayeth the Lord], but it really isn't. What Paul was saying is that if a new believer dedicated himself/herself to the service of God, and He alone, there would be far fewer earthly problems arise to cause him strife in his earthy life......Goodness, all we have to do is consider the door we open up when we marry, and while we marry one woman/man, we get far more! In-laws! For while it may not suppose to be true, the reality is that we not only marry the woman/man, we marry their family as well, and all the baggage that comes with them. And this can and usually is/proves to be a distraction from our dedicating our lives to serving God.........Children come into play as well.........WHILE I THANK GOD FOR MY DAUGHTER AND GRANDSON, I also am aware that at times my concentrating on their earthly needs was a true distraction.........no, I am not perfect......I would think others here could identify with this.
So, trying to keep this short, so that it will actually be read........We must, when reading Paul's Epistles, identify when he was writing in what style to assure that we understand the difference between "thus sayeth the Lord," and "I would rather that...."
God bless.
M
Yet you stated that you were seeking him then suddenly wanted proof?
After what? many perceived bad happenings?
We are promised trials and tribulation not wealth fame and the easy life.
After what, Many ill fated circumstances?
You haven't vanished into thin air, so why turn on HIM?
What it is you are not understanding my friend is
.....subconsciously whether you realize it or not is your message to God in its essence, to the very root without actually saying so that day you asked for proof was this:
---Prove it or Else---
Be well informed...That is not just a demand... it is a threat.
Prove you are real God or else I will turn my back on you. Is that about correct?
If not you may clear yourself up with him, because that's what I and many other are seeing is the message you sent to your Lord that day instead of getting on your knees, getting out of your fancy clothes and putting on sackcloth and humbling yourself before him in prayer.
So God called your bluff
and You turned your back on him. what did you expect him to do.
...fall at YOUR KNEES?
He tells us whoever turns their ear to him so will he turn his ear to them as well
Jesus Christ says, whoever denies me, so will I deny him before my Father.
God knew your heart before you tested him which is why he didn't dignify you with a response
The very same when the Sanhedrin questioned Christ in court, he for the most part ignored them when they demanded proof of who he was. Christ took beatings and whippings and lashings to signify he serves no one that demands of him but only those who come to him with servants heart.
The servant is not greater than the master
God is no respecter of persons
I mean no disrespect toward you in any fashion although the depth of the argument you are attempting to represent lacks the water of the river of life to fill its canyons to the brim with any validity.
I'm not trying to embarrass you or lessen the value of how you feel because I'm sure your feelings are real.
Yet you state I dont understand the atheist mind
Translation, the depraved mind..... which God states he gives people up to once crossed over to the other side.
---This is a mind which places itself under limited understanding
---when instead you could have progressively unlimited understanding with God.
not through the teachings of man
But only with you...and him...one on one
from God and the Holy spirit himself speaking directly to your being.
That is the problem which requires a solution
The problem being attempting to understand spiritual matters without asking God for spiritual insight.
Can an ant understand the dynamics of appreciating Beethoven's 9th symphony?
This is the kind of limited understanding we have in comparison to God Almighty.
Beethoven was DEAF ...yet he still knew people would appreciate and feel within their soul what he was saying with those notes.
Although even though the composer being deaf, could another deaf person hear and appreciate what he was saying?
No...WHy is that?
We need ears to hear the author and composer of whats being said in the soul, the ears God provides to know his voice.
His sheep hear his voice.
Can a child understand the rigors, trials, love and sacrifice given to them in their upbringing from their parent until they experience it for themselves? No, half the time the child is rebelling, trying to firgure things out on their own or telling the parent they hate them. Until what though?
Granted you may have been disappointed when you did not hear Gods voice booming through the clouds like thunder from heaven to address you personally to reveal his awesome Power and Glory, or whatever sign it is you may have asked for.
But you're sincerely looking for signs and proof of Gods existence ...yet you exist?
I think your were looking for more that day you tested him.
His Power is in prayer and a relationship with him,
not proof by tangible means of our own limited capacity to understand him in all his ways.
We are asked to study his word to show OURSELVES Approved
Not we ask him to show himself approved to us
Now I anticipated that you would use the "Knock and the door shall be opened" scripture before hand so I give you credit for being predicatable, therefore I appreciate your cooperation in this matter.
And for that very reason I have an answer for you
It can be found in James 4:2-3
You do not have because you do not ask God.3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives.
Again do not test the Lord your God comes into play in precisely the same way Satan told Christ to throw himself off the mountain and the angels would come and save him.
Why even entertain the thought to do so?
Satan was asking Jesus to prove who he really was
Same as you asked God to prove who he really was, so who were you acting similarly to there?
I have compassion for you in your plight for searching for truth of the living God.
But perhaps you could take yourself out of the category of being a lost sheep forcing God to have come and rescue you from a position you placed upon yourself after saying you once served him.
Did you expect something return here?
Is our reward here or in heaven?
I encourage you to instead place yourself into the category of the Prodigal son who wandered off and realized his folly then returned with the proper attitude and motives.
If you wish to see tangible visible proof of God's existence look around you. Look at how magnificent and balanced nature is, how the planets suspend in perfect equilibrium revolving around the sun without spinning off into orbit or crashing into it.
Earth itself the perfect distance from the sun to sustain life with a fairly nice window of temperatures which isn't too extreme from season to season. Other planets, what are their extremes in comparison?
Hydrogen one of the most flammable things known to man and oxygen the catalyst which allows it to burn.
Yet mix the two together and what do you get?
Confounding wisdom by the two suddenly being the very thing that Puts puts fire.
The epitome of genius it would take to create such an incredibly intriguing and complex world we live on.
Yet so perfectly balanced and almost in...."Harmony"
So I dont believe it is physical proof you seek
What is it that you feel you still lack in life?
Completeness and harmony is the thing lacking in your life, harmony with your creator.
Again I say go to him, because it was you who turned. Don't make the mistake of transferring the blame to God.
He loves you enough, he will take you back once you earnestly seek him.
No one comes to the father but through Christ.
Translation=No one comes to God but by the word of God.
You won't find God or get closer to him reading other peoples writings unless you are filling your heart with his word and conversing with him.
Humbly and respectfully.
Meaning you don't expect nothing back. You are a servant and in turn you do these things as a service to him.
If he feels like blessing you that is his choice, or not, but don't demand it or throw a fit if he doesn't comply.
I tell you the truth, if you back into his word, fill your mind and heart with the things of God so that you may be transformed as a new creation by the renewing of your mind to be that of his will, you will know and feel him in your being.
And you will do as he says and you will glorify him.
If you commit no sin, and are a good person which I believe you are a good person.
Then there's only one thing left, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, believe on Gods word, the very same voice that spoke all things into creation. The same voice which created you. The voice it would be good to stop covering your ears to.
God Bless, I will pray for you
After what? many perceived bad happenings?
We are promised trials and tribulation not wealth fame and the easy life.
After what, Many ill fated circumstances?
You haven't vanished into thin air, so why turn on HIM?
What it is you are not understanding my friend is
.....subconsciously whether you realize it or not is your message to God in its essence, to the very root without actually saying so that day you asked for proof was this:
---Prove it or Else---
Be well informed...That is not just a demand... it is a threat.
Prove you are real God or else I will turn my back on you. Is that about correct?
If not you may clear yourself up with him, because that's what I and many other are seeing is the message you sent to your Lord that day instead of getting on your knees, getting out of your fancy clothes and putting on sackcloth and humbling yourself before him in prayer.
So God called your bluff
and You turned your back on him. what did you expect him to do.
...fall at YOUR KNEES?
He tells us whoever turns their ear to him so will he turn his ear to them as well
Jesus Christ says, whoever denies me, so will I deny him before my Father.
God knew your heart before you tested him which is why he didn't dignify you with a response
The very same when the Sanhedrin questioned Christ in court, he for the most part ignored them when they demanded proof of who he was. Christ took beatings and whippings and lashings to signify he serves no one that demands of him but only those who come to him with servants heart.
The servant is not greater than the master
God is no respecter of persons
I mean no disrespect toward you in any fashion although the depth of the argument you are attempting to represent lacks the water of the river of life to fill its canyons to the brim with any validity.
I'm not trying to embarrass you or lessen the value of how you feel because I'm sure your feelings are real.
Yet you state I dont understand the atheist mind
Translation, the depraved mind..... which God states he gives people up to once crossed over to the other side.
---This is a mind which places itself under limited understanding
---when instead you could have progressively unlimited understanding with God.
not through the teachings of man
But only with you...and him...one on one
from God and the Holy spirit himself speaking directly to your being.
That is the problem which requires a solution
The problem being attempting to understand spiritual matters without asking God for spiritual insight.
Can an ant understand the dynamics of appreciating Beethoven's 9th symphony?
This is the kind of limited understanding we have in comparison to God Almighty.
Beethoven was DEAF ...yet he still knew people would appreciate and feel within their soul what he was saying with those notes.
Although even though the composer being deaf, could another deaf person hear and appreciate what he was saying?
No...WHy is that?
We need ears to hear the author and composer of whats being said in the soul, the ears God provides to know his voice.
His sheep hear his voice.
Can a child understand the rigors, trials, love and sacrifice given to them in their upbringing from their parent until they experience it for themselves? No, half the time the child is rebelling, trying to firgure things out on their own or telling the parent they hate them. Until what though?
Granted you may have been disappointed when you did not hear Gods voice booming through the clouds like thunder from heaven to address you personally to reveal his awesome Power and Glory, or whatever sign it is you may have asked for.
But you're sincerely looking for signs and proof of Gods existence ...yet you exist?
I think your were looking for more that day you tested him.
His Power is in prayer and a relationship with him,
not proof by tangible means of our own limited capacity to understand him in all his ways.
We are asked to study his word to show OURSELVES Approved
Not we ask him to show himself approved to us
Now I anticipated that you would use the "Knock and the door shall be opened" scripture before hand so I give you credit for being predicatable, therefore I appreciate your cooperation in this matter.
And for that very reason I have an answer for you
It can be found in James 4:2-3
You do not have because you do not ask God.3 When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives.
Again do not test the Lord your God comes into play in precisely the same way Satan told Christ to throw himself off the mountain and the angels would come and save him.
Why even entertain the thought to do so?
Satan was asking Jesus to prove who he really was
Same as you asked God to prove who he really was, so who were you acting similarly to there?
I have compassion for you in your plight for searching for truth of the living God.
But perhaps you could take yourself out of the category of being a lost sheep forcing God to have come and rescue you from a position you placed upon yourself after saying you once served him.
Did you expect something return here?
Is our reward here or in heaven?
I encourage you to instead place yourself into the category of the Prodigal son who wandered off and realized his folly then returned with the proper attitude and motives.
If you wish to see tangible visible proof of God's existence look around you. Look at how magnificent and balanced nature is, how the planets suspend in perfect equilibrium revolving around the sun without spinning off into orbit or crashing into it.
Earth itself the perfect distance from the sun to sustain life with a fairly nice window of temperatures which isn't too extreme from season to season. Other planets, what are their extremes in comparison?
Hydrogen one of the most flammable things known to man and oxygen the catalyst which allows it to burn.
Yet mix the two together and what do you get?
Confounding wisdom by the two suddenly being the very thing that Puts puts fire.
The epitome of genius it would take to create such an incredibly intriguing and complex world we live on.
Yet so perfectly balanced and almost in...."Harmony"
So I dont believe it is physical proof you seek
What is it that you feel you still lack in life?
Completeness and harmony is the thing lacking in your life, harmony with your creator.
Again I say go to him, because it was you who turned. Don't make the mistake of transferring the blame to God.
He loves you enough, he will take you back once you earnestly seek him.
No one comes to the father but through Christ.
Translation=No one comes to God but by the word of God.
You won't find God or get closer to him reading other peoples writings unless you are filling your heart with his word and conversing with him.
Humbly and respectfully.
Meaning you don't expect nothing back. You are a servant and in turn you do these things as a service to him.
If he feels like blessing you that is his choice, or not, but don't demand it or throw a fit if he doesn't comply.
I tell you the truth, if you back into his word, fill your mind and heart with the things of God so that you may be transformed as a new creation by the renewing of your mind to be that of his will, you will know and feel him in your being.
And you will do as he says and you will glorify him.
If you commit no sin, and are a good person which I believe you are a good person.
Then there's only one thing left, believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, believe on Gods word, the very same voice that spoke all things into creation. The same voice which created you. The voice it would be good to stop covering your ears to.
God Bless, I will pray for you
Last edited:
U
I think the matter of Paul's writings goes much deeper than this for those so inclined to negate God's truth contained within them (this is not directed at you). One only has to consider what Paul's "worldly religious qualifications" were to understand why God would choose one such as he to bring the message of God's grace thru Christ ... i.e. .. the simple message of the gospel to the gentiles. Who better understood the laws utterly insufficient means to save us from God's wrath than Paul ? ...
Philippians 3:4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]though I myself have reasons for such confidence.
If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]as for zeal,persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
The more one comes to understand and savour the depth of God's unmerited love and grace towards us in Christ's sacrifice on our behalf, the further one distances him/herself from reliance upon the law for salvation. I have never found Paul's writings difficult or controversial in this regard. Who but those in contention of God's method and means (in Jesus Christ) would ... i.e... the Pharisee's and such ? In matters relating to what exactly were God's words (thus saith the Lord) versus Paul's words of advice to us, I would only venture to say that entirety of Scripture is wholly trustworthy and true ... and given to us from God that we might be transformed through that by which we are informed or given knowledge and understanding of.
Philippians 3:4-6
[SUP]4 [/SUP]though I myself have reasons for such confidence.
If someone else thinks they have reasons to put confidence in the flesh, I have more: [SUP]5 [/SUP]circumcised on the eighth day, of the people of Israel, of the tribe of Benjamin, a Hebrew of Hebrews; in regard to the law, a Pharisee; [SUP]6 [/SUP]as for zeal,persecuting the church; as for righteousness based on the law, faultless.
The more one comes to understand and savour the depth of God's unmerited love and grace towards us in Christ's sacrifice on our behalf, the further one distances him/herself from reliance upon the law for salvation. I have never found Paul's writings difficult or controversial in this regard. Who but those in contention of God's method and means (in Jesus Christ) would ... i.e... the Pharisee's and such ? In matters relating to what exactly were God's words (thus saith the Lord) versus Paul's words of advice to us, I would only venture to say that entirety of Scripture is wholly trustworthy and true ... and given to us from God that we might be transformed through that by which we are informed or given knowledge and understanding of.
I think that every single one of the posters who read Paul without putting his words in context of the entire bible has distorted Paul. Every one. Paul told us how God taught us at the most important time in our world history, when we were learning of the changes that Christ living with us and was crucified made. This 30 or so years has the most coverage in the entire bible, it is so important. But without seeing it in context with the other thousands of years, we can't understand it properly.
Just take the one teaching that God tried to teach us, the relationship between works and love. When people tried to buy God's favor expressed in good crops with sacrifices that were all people then knew of Christ God said He didn't want that kind of sacrifice. When people said that they gave love so nothing else was required and works were out, God said that your faith is no good without doing something. A works based religion is worthless. So is a no work based religion worthless. We need all of scripture to understand.
Just take the one teaching that God tried to teach us, the relationship between works and love. When people tried to buy God's favor expressed in good crops with sacrifices that were all people then knew of Christ God said He didn't want that kind of sacrifice. When people said that they gave love so nothing else was required and works were out, God said that your faith is no good without doing something. A works based religion is worthless. So is a no work based religion worthless. We need all of scripture to understand.
K
Wow if Paul was false then we have to throw out 2/3 of the new testament. Are you kidding me, Paul brought the gospel to the gentiles and to him was revealed the true meaning of the cross. We are nothing with out the cross as Paul so wonderfully explains by the anointing of the Holy Spirit. Most want to discredit Paul because He advocates speaking in tongues as the Spirit gives the utterance and misinformed or taught by false teaching people cannot accept that, because they believe it is demonic. Paul spoke in tongues, his constituents spoke in tongues and he preached speaking in tongues as well as Christ and Him crucified.
U
I won't even ask how you came up with this one. But for the umpteenth time, the tongues (earthly human languages) spoken during the time of the pentecost were the real deal. Of course Paul would speak of them. Their purpose served as a sign that Jesus Christ was the Messiah to the unbelieving Jews. They verified the gospel message that Paul preached ... Christ alone ... Christ crucified. "Tongues" were never the gospel message. Leading and guiding us to God's truth in salvation thru Jesus Christ alone was, is and always shall be the task designated to God's most precious Holy Spirit.
K
No Paul spoke in them and also of them as a gift of the Holy Spirit. I don't think that Cornelius was present at the day of pentecost and nor was Paul. In fact was pursuing and imprisoning christians at that time. This exactly what I said, most discredit Paul for this fact or say it was for that day only. By the way, it's not paul they discredit but, the Holy Spirit as He spoke through Paul.
M
Isn't claiming that Paul was a false apostle just an excuse to start Judaising Christians? And once those calling themselves Christians become try-hard Jews, it won't be hard to convince them to deny Jesus.
The Pharisees boast about not trying to proselytise, but in reality, they proselytise to any Christian who will listen.
The Pharisees boast about not trying to proselytise, but in reality, they proselytise to any Christian who will listen.