Yet you reject Thomas seeing with his own eyes had anything to do with his coming to believe, even though Scripture, in the very words of Jesus no less, affirm this fact.
Was the person who falls away drawn to Jesus by the Father?
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Faith is a fruit of having the Holy Spirit. Maybe he was one of those with a negative attitude that needed a boost?
You're saying it's impossible for the people who didn't really believe and who stopped their fake believing to repent because they don't want to be saved. But the passage says it's impossible for them to repent because it puts Christ to open shame, not that they don't want to believe. That means unbelievers can't come to Christ later, not that they won't.
The only scenario that fits is these are saved people who fall away.
The only true scenario is Christ did not pay for their sins. So they could not believe in any true sense.
Which means, according to the passage, that the unsaved person who rejects the gospel can never have another chance to believe and be saved.
People do not have chances to save themselves. It they do, they are the savior. God saves all whom he will. That is why we believe. Had he not saved you, you could not believe.
That's what I'm saying.
If your understanding of Hebrews 6:4-6 is correct, that it's talking about unsaved people, then the unsaved person who rejects the gospel can not ever be saved because God will not ever let them be saved.
No, accepting the gospel saves nobody. If it does, they save themselves. Grace saves those who cannot believe or discern Christ in truth. If anyone receives Christ it is because they are born again.
If they are saved what are the falling away from ? Crucifying Christ subjecting him to public shame as if one demonstration was not enough to appease the father.?
I would think we would look to the foundation below to find the comtrext. What does "dead works" and "faith of toward God" mean.
Again if we are to find the meat of the word. They must be defined .
Hebrews 6 King James Version (KJV) Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. And this will we do, if God permit.
Believing the gospel is in fact how a person is saved. That is not a works gospel.
You're afraid that if the person does the believing that would be a works gospel.
No where in scripture is the works gospel defined by a person believing God.
They are falling away from sharing in the Holy Spirit.
"4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age 6and who have fallen c away, to be brought back to repentance. To their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace. " - Hebrews 6:4-6
Only saved people share in the Holy Spirit.
And it's impossible for people who have repented to be brought back to repentance, not impossible to be brought back to a repentance they never had. And it's impossible because God won't allow it--it subjects Christ to open shame.
Just go with what it plainly says.
The Son of man Jesus believed the Father. The father put his words on his Sons lips. Jesus preached the gospel as it is written
It is a works gospel according to Christ 's three day labor of His love as a work of His faith .Without that work of His faith we would still be dead in our trespasses and sin .We have a living hope in us. . . .not of us lest any man boast in false pride.
“13 They on the rock are they, which, when they hear, receive the Word with joy; and these have no root, which for a while believe, and in time of temptation fall away (completely refutes the unscriptural doctrine of unconditional eternal security).” Luke 8
“44 No man can come to Me, except the Father which has sent Me draw him (the idea is that all initiative toward Salvation is on the part of God toward the sinner and not from the sinner himself; without this “drawing of the Father,” which is done by the Holy Spirit, no one could come to God, or even have any desire to come to God): and I will raise him up at the last day (for the third time in this Chapter alone, Jesus addresses the Resurrection).” John 6
JSM
That would then be 'another Jesus'.
1 John 2:19 (KJV) They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.
Perhaps but only God can be certain of that.
1 Corinthians 4:5 (KJV) Therefore judge nothing before the time, until the Lord come, who both will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts: and then shall every man have praise of God.
It becomes works when it becomes a condition for salvation. In that case it turns the gospel into law and salvation into works. Are you saved because you believe? Or do you believe because you are saved?
Revelation 22:16 King James Version (KJV)
16 I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.
Given that they have no root, how could it be that the Father have drawn them?
No, believing/ trusting in Christ is contrasted with works for justification, not equated with it:
"4Now to the one who works, wages are not credited as a gift but as an obligation. 5However, to the one who does not work but trusts God who justifies the ungodly, their faith is credited as righteousness." - Romans 4:4-5
No, Paul said faith and law are diametrically opposed:
"12The law is not based on faith; on the contrary" - Galatians 3:12
And even if faith was a law, for surely Paul speaks of a 'law of faith' (Romans 3:27), he does not include it in the works that cannot justify but instead says it excludes any boast of self-righteous:
"27Where then is boasting? It is excluded. By what kind of law? Of works? No, but by a law of faith." - Romans 3:27
A 'law of faith' actually nullifies the law of works and removes any boast of works in justification that might somehow make having faith a self-righteous work of law.
I am saved because I believe:
30 “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31They said, “Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household.” - Acts 16:30-31
'No root' is an obvious figure of speech. You've probably used it yourself before. No plant grows without any roots at all.
Recently a giant tree fell over on the land across the road from my house. I was amazed to see it had 'no root'. Of course it had roots (no plant grows without roots), but it's roots were only a few inches long, and so it was not firmly rooted in the ground. And so it is with the word of God that sprang up and was growing in soil #2:
"6Some fell on rocky ground, and when it came up (it was growing), the plants withered because they had no moisture.
13Those on the rocky ground are the ones who receive the word with joy when they hear it, but they have no root. They believe for a while, but in the time of testing they fall away.
The problem was the word of God had no deep root in the heart of this believer and did not reach deep sources of water to sustain that word in them when the heat of the sun beat on them, and so the word dried up. If you've ever cleaned out trees starting to grow in the gutters on a house you'll see that clearly demonstrated.
The Galatians are a good example of the #2 soil believer.
If choosing to believe is a condition for salvation, you turn the Gospel law and grace into works. Grace saves those who cannot believe turning them into repentant believers through the New Birth (Salvation). You believe because God saved you.