Was the Sabbath (7th day) abolished?

[john832]

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

if God's law in our hearts according to the new covenant includes the entire old covenant (torah) with all the ceremonial law, why aren't were bringing animal sacrifices to the temple?

he means that we keep the whole of his word in our hearts, as it is the story of Jesus and God's plan and character. if we know his character and holiness, we know what is right and wrong. if we are unsure, we refer to the new covenant, which Jesus entrusted to his apostles.

Sounds very good but Paul says something else...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Paul said he wouldn't know right from wrong without the Law.

no temple, no animals, no mosaic sabbath taught.

Lemme see here...

Gen 2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were finished, and all the host of them.
Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God ended his work which he had made; and he rested on the seventh day from all his work which he had made.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it: because that in it he had rested from all his work which God created and made.

The Sabbath was created two thousand five hundred years before Moses, the fourth Commandment tells us that...

Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

See what it says here? The Eternal blessed and hallowed a day He calls the Sabbath on the seventh day of creation week.

Now you can call it anything you like, you can even call it a space shuttle if you want but God calls it HIS Sabbath...

Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

It is HIS Feast...

Lev 23:1 And the LORD spake unto Moses, saying,
Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of the LORD, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings.

Now as I have said in other threads, if your Bible says this...

Lev 23:1 And Moses spake, saying,
Lev 23:2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, Concerning the feasts of Moses, which ye shall proclaim to be holy convocations, even these are my feasts.
Lev 23:3 Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, an holy convocation; ye shall do no work therein: it is the sabbath of Moses in all your dwellings.

You need to return it and demand your money back, it is spurious and heretical.

i have seen the argument that christians who believe the sabbath was a shadow of Jesus Christ and the rest he brings to hopeless sinners think the sabbath was changed.

this may be true for the catholic church, i am not an expert on their dogmatics.

but it's not what protestants believe, to the best of my knowledge.

Well there you go, that is what happens when you trust your own knowledge instead of the Word of God...

Mar 2:27 And he said unto them, The sabbath was made for man, and not man for the sabbath:
Mar 2:28 Therefore the Son of man is Lord also of the sabbath.

 

[clittle]

the purpose of the Law?

18For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. 19Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made...


The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase.

explain that if you can

 

[john832]

the purpose of the Law?

18For if the inheritance is based on law, it is no longer based on a promise; but God has granted it to Abraham by means of a promise. 19Why the Law then? It was added because of transgressions, having been ordained through angels by the agency of a mediator, until the seed would come to whom the promise had been made...


The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase.

explain that if you can

Ah, so this is a contradiction of the seventh chapter of Romans? if you really believe that, then how do you trust anything written in the Book?

Gal 3:19 Wherefore then serveth the law? It was added because of transgressions,...

What was added because of transgressions?

Deu 5:22 These words the LORD spake unto all your assembly in the mount out of the midst of the fire, of the cloud, and of the thick darkness, with a great voice: and he added no more. And he wrote them in two tables of stone, and delivered them unto me.

He added no more at Mt. Sinai. Nothing is said about sacrifice for sin here. Ever wonder why?

Jer 7:22 For I spake not unto your fathers, nor commanded them in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, concerning burnt offerings or sacrifices:
Jer 7:23 But this thing commanded I them, saying, Obey my voice, and I will be your God, and ye shall be my people: and walk ye in all the ways that I have commanded you, that it may be well unto you.
Jer 7:24 But they hearkened not, nor inclined their ear, but walked in the counsels and in the imagination of their evil heart, and went backward, and not forward.

Here is what was added...

Heb 10:1 For the law having a shadow of good things to come, and not the very image of the things, can never with those sacrifices which they offered year by year continually make the comers thereunto perfect.
Heb 10:2 For then would they not have ceased to be offered? because that the worshippers once purged should have had no more conscience of sins.
Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Heb 10:6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure.
Heb 10:7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.
Heb 10:8 Above when he said, Sacrifice and offering and burnt offerings and offering for sin thou wouldest not, neither hadst pleasure therein; which are offered by the law;

Animal sacrifices. Why were they added? To pay the penalty for sin?

Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.

Well then, for how long were they added? Back to Gal 3:19

...till the seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was ordained by angels in the hand of a mediator.

Gal 3:20 Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one.
Gal 3:21 Is the law then against the promises of God? God forbid: for if there had been a law given which could have given life, verily righteousness should have been by the law.
Gal 3:22 But the scripture hath concluded all under sin, that the promise by faith of Jesus Christ might be given to them that believe.

So what is the promise of faith by Christ? Anarchy? or is it this...

Rom 5:6 For when we were yet without strength, in due time Christ died for the ungodly.
Rom 5:7 For scarcely for a righteous man will one die: yet peradventure for a good man some would even dare to die.
Rom 5:8 But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us.

Gal 3:23 But before faith came, we were kept under the law, shut up unto the faith which should afterwards be revealed.
Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

What Law was to bring us to Christ?

Heb 10:3 But in those sacrifices there is a remembrance again made of sins every year.
Heb 10:4 For it is not possible that the blood of bulls and of goats should take away sins.
Heb 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Sacrifices which were a type and a shadow of what Christ was coming to do.

Gal 3:25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.
Gal 3:26 For ye are all the children of God by faith in Christ Jesus.

We no longer have to offer sacrifices to remind us that the perfect sacrifice is coming, it is here.

Now did Christ do away with the Law? If you believe that, then explain this...

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

If the Law is done away, there is no transgression and what is transgression?

1Jn 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Sin.

Rom 5:13 (For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.

So if the Law is done away, there is no sin. If there is no sin, one does not need a sacrifice for sin. Therefore, one does not need Christ.

The whole concept of doing away with the Law is a horrible affront to Christ and the sacrifice He made to pay for our sins. He shed His blood to justify us but some want a cheap justification that does not require blood to be shed because there is no Law to define sin.

How about explaining this away?

 

[clittle]

how can one reason with people who insist you have said the law is abolished (not the old covenant)?

The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase.

please explain this simple verse above. why increase?

 

[john832]

how can one reason with people who insist you have said the law is abolished (not the old covenant)?

The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase.

please explain this simple verse above. why increase?

Well first of all, let's clarify, what is abolished?

 

[clittle]

Well first of all, let's clarify, what is abolished?

no, you are far more learned than i on the LAW.
i simply asked why it says clearly

The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase.

i suppose we would want to know what/which trespass...and how and why the Law being brought in can cause it to increase.
if you can tie this to sacrificial (animal/temple) laws, i will be surprised.

 

[Jeff_56]

how can one reason with people who insist you have said the law is abolished (not the old covenant)?

The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase.

please explain this simple verse above. why increase?

THANK YOU ! very good question. simple, seeking truth (we all hope anyway), and with simple answer.

when people do not realize they are vicious, pernicious, deceived, repugnant sinners, they don't repent.

when people realize what the law says, if yahweh permits, they see what vicious, pernicious, deceived, repugnant sinners they are.

hopefully, in accordance with the purpose of the law(yahweh's purpose and yahweh's plan),

people will then repent with complete revulsion at their previous sin and sinfulness, and will completely renounce all sin and sinfulness.

if the trespass does not increase, if they don't realize how totally evil they have been in the flesh/ carnality/ 'normal' life,

then , without repentance, they aren't even seeking a right relationship with yahweh, not realizing they are separate from him.

btw, this is very very very common today -= people not realizing they are not with him but are separate from him, and

people not even seeking him - not even caring if they live a corrupt life or a righteous life. this is the world position (dead in sin, dead in corruption) , and is the position of many who 'claim' to be 'christian' , even right up until judgment !

that's part of it anyway (why the trespass must increase). the hopeful part.

another part is this: the sin increases, as it is written "the wicked(most people) become more wicked" until their wickedness is filled up(as it is written somewhere), like, as if, God has a measure beyond which he finally puts a stop to it,
and
perhaps, hopefully, as love hopes all things,
a point before that, or somewhere, where he grants the sinner grace to repent instead of continuing in repugnant sinful life
in which repugnant sinful life the whole world wallows and is increasing.

 

[Jeff_56]

no, you are far more learned than i on the LAW.
i simply asked why it says clearly

The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase.

i suppose we would want to know what/which trespass...and how and why the Law being brought in can cause it to increase.
if you can tie this to sacrificial (animal/temple) laws, i will be surprised.

hard to tell, but we still hope everyone is seeking the truth and very real and true repentance from sin. to be right with God.

 

[clittle]

Well first of all, let's clarify, what is abolished?

15Brothers and sisters, let me take an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or add to a human covenant that has been duly established, so it is in this case. 16The promises were spoken to Abraham and to his seed. Scripture does not say “and to seeds,” meaning many people, but “and to your seed,”i meaning one person, who is Christ. 17What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. 18For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on the promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.

19Why, then, was the law given at all? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come. The law was given through angels and entrusted to a mediator. 20A mediator, however, implies more than one party; but God is one.


430 years later...than what? the promise made to abraham?
that would place us at sinai, wouldn't it? i am probably wrong.

 

[john832]

no, you are far more learned than i on the LAW.
i simply asked why it says clearly

The law was brought in so that the trespass might increase.

i suppose we would want to know what/which trespass...and how and why the Law being brought in can cause it to increase.
if you can tie this to sacrificial (animal/temple) laws, i will be surprised.

Help me out here, what verse is that?

 

[clittle]

isn't "the trespass" the golden calf incident?

 

[clittle]

Help me out here, what verse is that?

romans 5-20

 

[clittle]

hard to tell, but we still hope everyone is seeking the truth and very real and true repentance from sin. to be right with God.

the law most certainly shows us our sin. which leads us to look for forgiveness...through the promised Seed, Jesus Christ.


What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."

 

[clittle]

What shall we say, then? Is the law sinful? Certainly not! Nevertheless, I would not have known what sin was had it not been for the law. For I would not have known what coveting really was if the law had not said, "You shall not covet."

so this would make the Law a teacher or schoolmaster, as i hear.

Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

 

[john832]

Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Seems pretty obvious to me, read on down in the letter...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

If you believe that the Law was added to increase sin, why in the world was that necessary?

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

God found the earth so wicked that He destroyed it. How do you increase sin above that?

Or was it that the Law was given so that sin came to be understood for how gruesome and horrible it is? Rom 7:13

 

[clittle]

But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

 

[john832]

hard to tell, but we still hope everyone is seeking the truth and very real and true repentance from sin. to be right with God.

Why bother? according to some the Law is done away and if it is done away there is no more sin.

 

[clittle]

Rom 5:20 Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound. But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound:

Seems pretty obvious to me, read on down in the letter...

Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Rom 7:13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.

If you believe that the Law was added to increase sin, why in the world was that necessary?

Gen 6:5 And GOD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every imagination of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.
Gen 6:6 And it repented the LORD that he had made man on the earth, and it grieved him at his heart.
Gen 6:7 And the LORD said, I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth; both man, and beast, and the creeping thing, and the fowls of the air; for it repenteth me that I have made them.

God found the earth so wicked that He destroyed it. How do you increase sin above that?

Or was it that the Law was given so that sin came to be understood for how gruesome and horrible it is? Rom 7:13

the law is not sin. i know that much

but

For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death.

 

[john832]

But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.

Oh, OK, since sin is the transgression of the Law, we no longer sin. I get it, we don't need Christ's sacrifice because we no longer sin.

Hmmm, so what you are saying here is "Well thanks Christ for the sacrifice but I don't need it because I no longer sin because there is not Law.

 

[clittle]

Why bother? according to some the Law is done away and if it is done away there is no more sin.

For when we were in the realm of the flesh, the sinful passions aroused by the law were at work in us, so that we bore fruit for death.


But before faith came, we were kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed.Therefore the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ, so that we may be justified by faith.

But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.


the Law has become our tutor
we are no longer under a tutor

how do you make sense of this?