Was the Sabbath (7th day) abolished?

[Hizikyah]

follow up post coming to add to this as to be a little fuller and even in explanation...

Yes Rome and the rest of mystery babylon will do more...

yet the Messiah did not get the Sabbath "change" memo...

Mattithyah 24:20, "But pray that your flight will not be in the winter, nor on the Sabbath Day."

neither did Paul

Paul
"And Paul, as his manner was went in unto them, and three Sabbath days reasoned with them out of the Scriptures" Acts 17:2

Paul And Gentiles
"And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next Sabbath. And the next Sabbath came almost the whole city together to hear the Word of God." Acts 13:42, 44.


Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out; the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

"and the whole world wondered after the beast..."

Hebrews 4:1-11, "Therefore, since a promise of entering His rest remains, let us fear so that none of you should come short of it. For this message was preached to us, as well as to them; but the word which they heard did not benefit them, because they did not share in the faith of those who obeyed-- However, we who have believed do enter that rest, as He has said: So I vowed in My wrath, They will not enter into My rest, although the works were finished from the foundation of the world, For He spoke in a certain place of the Seventh Day, in this way: And Yahweh rested the Seventh Day from all His works. And in this place again: If they will enter into My rest. Since therefore it remains that some must enter it, and those to whom it was first preached did not enter because of disobedience, Again, He designates a certain day, saying in David: ''Today,'' after so long a time, as it has been said: Today, if you will hear His voice, do not harden your hearts. If Yahshua (ben Nun) had given them rest he would not have spoken afterward of another day. Therefore, there remains the keeping of the Sabbath (word G#4520) to the people of Yahweh, For he who has entered into His rest (word G#2663) has also ceased from his own works, as Yahweh did from His. Therefore, let us be zealous to enter into that rest (word G#2663), so that no one may fall after the same example of unbelief."

the yoke is light, but the real rest Messiah offeres is not in the flesh....

Revelation 14:13, "And I heard a voice from heaven saying to me: Write: Blessed are the dead, the ones dying in the Messiah from now on! Yes, says the Spirit: because they will rest from their labors, and their works do follow them!"

4520 - sabbatismos
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
Word Origin - from a derivation of sabbaton
Definition - a sabbath rest

2663 - katapausis
katapausis: rest
Original Word: κατάπαυσις, εως, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: katapausis
Phonetic Spelling: (kat-ap'-ow-sis)
Short Definition: resting, rest
Definition: (in the Old Testament of the rest attained by the settlement in Canaan), resting, rest, dwelling, habitation.
Word Origin - from katapauó
Definition - rest

Contrast words 4520 from Hebrews 4:9 to all the other "NT" mentions of Sabbath:

Hebrews 4:9, "Therefore, there remains the keeping of the Sabbath (word G#4520) to the people of Yahweh."

4520 - sabbatismos
sabbatismos: a sabbath rest
Original Word: σαββατισμός, οῦ, ὁ
Part of Speech: Noun, Masculine
Transliteration: sabbatismos
Phonetic Spelling: (sab-bat-is-mos')
Short Definition: a Sabbath rest
Definition: a keeping of the Sabbath, a Sabbath rest.
Word Origin - from a derivation of sabbaton
Definition - a sabbath rest
1 Occurrence

4521 - sabbaton
sabbaton: the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week)
Original Word: σάββατον, ου, τό
Part of Speech: Noun, Neuter
Transliteration: sabbaton
Phonetic Spelling: (sab'-bat-on)
Short Definition: the Sabbath, a week
Definition: the Sabbath, a week.
Word Origin - of Hebrew origin shabbath
Definition - the Sabbath, i.e. the seventh day (of the week)
68 Occurrences

Revelation 20:4, "And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them. And I saw the souls of those who were beheaded for their witness of Yahshua and for the word of Yahweh, and who had not worshiped the beast, nor his likeness, neither had received his mark in their foreheads nor upon their hands; and fthey lived and reigned with the Messiah a thousand years."

Revelation 20:6, "Blessed and holy is he who has part in the first resurrection; on such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of Yahweh and of the Messiah, and will reign with Him a thousand years."

2 Kepha (Peter) 3:8, "But, beloved, do not forget this one thing: that with Yahweh, one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

This verse (Hebrews 4:8) has been translated 2 different ways, one as "Jesus" the other as "Joshua"

English Standard Version
For if Joshua had given them rest, God would not have spoken of another day later on.

King James Bible
For if Jesus had given them rest, then would he not afterward have spoken of another day.

"Joshua" son of Nun (Yahshua ben Nun) is the one being talked about here, not Yahshua the Messiah (Jesus).

You know then the Israylites entered the promised land, yet this was not the real promised land, it was a foreshadow of the kingdom of Yahweh in the 1000yr reign.

Thus, "a promise of entering His rest remains"

A promise we are still looking forward to today! and the 7th day Sabbath is the weekly shadow picture of this 1000yr reign to remind us hat we have to look forward to, if one reads Hebrews 4 with this in mind, one will understand the true meaning of it. Not some modern, no understanding, 2000 yrs detached gentile butchering of it. (not implying you look at it like this, but it is commonly misunderstood)

Colossians 2:13-23, " 13 You were dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh. He made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross; 15 having stripped the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it. 16 Let no one therefore judge you in eating, or in drinking, or with respect to a feast day or a new moon or a Sabbath day, 17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Messiah’s. 18 Let no one rob you of your prize by a voluntary humility and worshiping of the angels, dwelling in the things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind, 19 and not holding firmly to the Head, from whom all the body, being supplied and knit together through the joints and ligaments, grows with God’s growth. 20 If you died with Messiah from the elements of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to ordinances, 21 “Don’t handle, nor taste, nor touch” 22 (all of which perish with use), according to the precepts and doctrines of men? 23 Which things indeed appear like wisdom in self-imposed worship, and humility, and severity to the body; but aren’t of any value against the indulgence of the flesh. "

Feasts that Yahweh says should be kept for all generations are promoted in the NT:

1 Corinthians 5:7-8, "Therefore, purge out the old leaven, that you may be a new batch, since you are unleavened. For truly Yahshua our Passover was sacrificed for us. Therefore, let us keep the Feast (1858), not with bold leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness, but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth."

1858 - heortazo
heortazo: I keep a feast
Original Word: ἑορτάζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: heortazo
Phonetic Spelling: (heh-or-tad'-zo)
Short Definition: I keep a feast
Definition: I take part in a festival, keep a feast
keep the feast - see GREEK heorte
From heorte; to observe a festival -- keep the feast

1859 - heorté
heorté: a feast, a festival
Original Word: ἑορτή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: heorté
Phonetic Spelling: (heh-or-tay')
Short Definition: a festival, feast
Definition: a festival, feast, periodically recurring.
Word Origin - of uncertain derivation
Definition - a feast, a festival

Acts 18:21, "But bade them farewell, saying; I must by all means keep this Feast (word #G1859) that comes in Yerusalem; but I will return again to you, if Yahweh wills. And he sailed from Ephesus."

Acts 20:16, "For Shaul had decided to sail past Ephesus, so that he would not have to spend time in Asia; for he hurried, so it would be possible for him to celebrate the Day of Pentecost (word#H4005) at Yerusalem."

4005 - pentékosté
pentékosté: fiftieth, Pentecost, the second of the three great Jewish feasts
Original Word: πεντηκοστή, ῆς, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: pentékosté
Phonetic Spelling: (pen-tay-kos-tay')
Short Definition: Pentecost
Definition: Pentecost, a feast of the Jews, the fiftieth day after Passover

Leviticus 23:2, "Speak to the children of Israyl, and say to them; Concerning the Feasts of Yahweh, which you shall proclaim to be Holy Convocations; these are My Feasts."

Most resources call the ,"Jewish" Feasts, but Yahweh calls them His Feasts, they are not for Jews only.

Exodus 12:48-49, "And when a stranger lives among you and wants to sacrifice the Passover to Yahweh, let all his males be circumcised, and then let him come near, and sacrifice it; and he shall be as a native of the land. But no uncircumcised person shall eat of it. One Law shall be for the nativeborn and for the stranger who dwells among you."

Numbers 15:15-16, "One ordinance shall be for you of the congregation, and for the stranger who sojourns with you, as an ordinance forever throughout your generations. As you are, so shall the stranger be in front of Yahweh. One Law and one manner shall be for you and for the stranger who asojourns with you."

Acts 27:9, "Since much time had passed, and the voyage was already dangerous because The Fast (word #G3521), had already gone by, Shaul warned them,"

3521 - nésteia
nésteia: fasting, a fast
Original Word: νηστεία, ας, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: nésteia
Phonetic Spelling: (nace-ti'-ah)
Short Definition: fasting, the day of atonement
Definition: fasting, the day of atonement

13 You were dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh. He made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses,

14 wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us; and he has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross;

15 having stripped the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

16 Let no one therefore judge you in eating, or in drinking, or with respect to a feast day or a new moon or a Sabbath day,

17 which are a shadow of the things to come; but the body is Messiah’s.

18 Let no one rob you of your prize by a voluntary humility and worshiping of the angels, dwelling in the things which he has not seen, vainly puffed up by his fleshly mind,

19 and not holding firmly to the Head, from whom all the body, being supplied and knit together through the joints and ligaments, grows with God’s growth.

20 If you died with Messiah from the elements of the world, why, as though living in the world, do you subject yourselves to ordinances,

So he is saying if your dead to the world why would you subject yourself to its (the worlds) ordinances. To think he is saying if your dead to the world then why would you subject yourself to Yahweh"s/Yahshua's Commandments would make no sense, but he explains it further.

21 “Don’t handle, nor taste, nor touch”

the pharisees had a law in which you could not eat meat and cheese togather, or even within 4 houhs of eachother. Now this is not in Yahweh's Law even, Yahweh's Law says dont boil a goat in its mothers milk (3 times) (the local pagans had this as a religious practice Yahweh did not want His people to partake in these evil pagan practices) the pharisees using something called "midrashic interpretation" the pharisees looked at it and said well since it says this three times it must meant three different things. SO THEY MADE UP THEIR OWN LAW, that was completely disconnected from Scripture and enforced it as from Yahweh.

22 (all of which perish with use), according to the precepts and doctrines of men?

So here very clearly he states "the commandments of men", now if you read from 16-20 you see he stays on topic, and 20 says basically if your dead to the world why do what the world tells you, so we can see he is still on this topic from v16. In this verse 22, he says "which are all for destruction", how does Sabbath lead to destruction and it would also have to be a "commandment of men" if there is ant commandment that is the farthest thing possible from being a "commandment of men" it is the Sabbath, it was from creation and it shows the AUTHORITY of the Creator, the mark of the Creator. Also tying a "commandment of men" to destruction Romans 8:13, "For if you live according to the flesh, you will die; but if, through the Spirit, you put to death; put an end to, the deeds of the flesh, you will live."

23 Which things indeed appear like wisdom in self-imposed worship, and humility, and severity to the body; but aren’t of any value against the indulgence of the flesh.

Pleasing of the pharisees by following the talmud. v22 for context = "after the commands and teachings of men"

you see the pharisees would have a problem if you did things according to Yahweh's instruction and not their ORAL LAW, this is shown in MATT 15, 23, mark 7:7-9, etc

If you kept the Sabbath NOT according to the Talmud but according to the Scriptures the Pharisees would have a problem.

Matt 12:10 & 12, "And, behold, there was a man who had a withered hand. Then they asked
Him, saying; Is it lawful to heal on the Sabbath Days?--so that they might accuse Him."
"And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

The "Rabbis" also made their own holidays, such as Rosh hashanna and more. They also had their own day and way of "celebrating" Yahweh's Feast Days as opposed to what Yahweh said. When they left babylon they even changed the names of the moons (months), and rosh hashanna even changes the time of the new year, commandment and ordinances of men. the calendar Yahweh instuted is Yahweh's calendar, the one who created it created the heavens and the earth. Our current calendar is the gregorian calendar, which goes back to the bablonian calendar. Yahweh said the days end and begin at sunset, not the "Rabbis."

% made up "feast days" the Pharisees may had, brought you to trial, beat, imprisoned, or even killed you for not honoring. The Talmud tells a story of another "Rabbi" disagreeing and wanting to follow the Scriptures, and the head Pharisees makes then man, on threat of death appear in public on a Scriptual Feast Day in a way that the man cant honor Yahweh, thus commanding him to disobey Yahweh.

Rosh Hashanah (New Year)
Rosh Hashanah occurs on the first and second days of Tishri (the 7th moon or month, Yahweh's year starts in the 1st month). In Hebrew, Rosh Hashanah means, literally, "head of the year" or "first of the year." Rosh Hashanah is commonly known as the Jewish New Year.

How does the year start in the 7th month? According to the Scriptures and Yahweh;s calendar the year starts in the 1st month, Abib.

Chanukkah
On the 25th of Kislev are the days of Chanukkah, which are eight... these were appointed a Festival with Hallel [prayers of praise] and thanksgiving. -Shabbat 21b, Babylonian Talmud

Tu B'Shevat
There are four new years... the first of Shevat is the new year for trees according to the ruling of Beit Shammai; Beit Hillel, however, places it on the fifteenth of that month. -Mishnah Rosh Hashanah 1:1

Purim
Is one of the most joyous and fun holidays on the Jewish calendar. It commemorates a time when the Jewish people living in Persia were saved from extermination.

Tisha B'Av
Five misfortunes befell our fathers ... on the ninth of Av. ...On the ninth of Av it was decreed that our fathers should not enter the [Promised] Land, the Temple was destroyed the first and second time, Bethar was captured and the city [Jerusalem] was ploughed up. -Mishnah Ta'anit 4:6

1 Corinthians 15:50-54, "Now I say this brothers: that flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of Yahweh; neither does corruption inherit incorruption.Behold, I show you a secret truth: we will not all sleep, but we will all be changed--In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet (word #G4536). For the trumpet will sound (word #G4537), and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we will be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible will have put on incorruption, and this mortal will have put on immortality, then will be brought to pass the saying that is written: Death is swallowed up in victory."

1 Thessalonians 4:16-17, "For Yahshua Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the malak gadol, and with the trumpet (word #G4536) of Yahweh. And the dead in Messiah will be raised first, Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet Yahshua in the air; and so will we ever be with Yahshua."

4536 - salpigx
salpigx: a trumpet
Original Word: σάλπιγξ, ιγγος, ἡ
Part of Speech: Noun, Feminine
Transliteration: salpigx
Phonetic Spelling: (sal'-pinx)
Short Definition: a trumpet
Definition: a trumpet, the sound of a trumpet
Word Origin - from salpizó
Definition - a trumpet

4537 - salpizó
salpizó: to sound a trumpet
Original Word: σαλπίζω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: salpizó
Phonetic Spelling: (sal-pid'-zo)
Short Definition: I sound a trumpet
Definition: I sound a trumpet.
Word Origin - of uncertain origin
Definition - to sound a trumpet

Genesis 1:14, "And Yahweh said: Let there be lights in the expanse of the sky to separate the day from the night, and let them serve as signs to mark the Feasts (word #H4150) , and for days (word #H3117) and years."

Leviticus 23:4, "These are the Feasts (word #H4150) of Yahweh, His Holy Convocations, which you shall proclaim in their seasons."

4150 - moed
moed: appointed time, place, or meeting
Original Word: מוֹעֵד
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: moed
Phonetic Spelling: (mo-ade')
Short Definition: meeting
Word Origin - from yaad
Definition - appointed time, place, or meeting

3117 - yom
yom: day
Original Word: יוֹם
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: yom
Phonetic Spelling: (yome)
Short Definition: day

 

[Hizikyah]

follow up post coming to add to this as to be a little fuller and even in explanation...

Mattithyah 5:18, "For truly I say to you; Unless heaven and earth passes away, one yodh--the smallest of the letters--will in no way pass from the Law, until all things are perfected."

Revelation 21:1-2, "And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no more sea. And I, Yahchanan, saw the holy city, Yahweh Shammah, coming down from Yahweh out of heaven, prepared as brides adorned for their husbands. And I heard a great voice out of heaven, saying: Behold, the tabernacle of Yahweh is with men, and He will dwell with them, and they will be His people, and Yahweh Himself will be with them, and be their Father.

"who turn the undeserved pardon of our One Supreme Savior Yahweh into licentiousness, and deny Yahshua our Messiah"

Unless heaven and earth passes away

"And I saw a new heaven and a new earth, for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away,


1 Timothy 4:1-2, "Now the Spirit speaks very plainly, that in the latter times some will depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons Speaking lies in hypocrisy, having their conscience seared as with a hot iron"
2 Timothy 4:3-4, “For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but after their own lusts they will heap to themselves teachers, who will tickle their ears, and they will turn away their ears from the truth, and be turned to fables.”

1 Yahchanan 2:1-2, "My little children, I write these things to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father: Yahshua Messiah, the Righteous; and He is the sacrifice of atonement for our sins, and not for ours only, but also for the sins of the whole world."

1 Yahchanan 3:4, "Whoever commits sin, transgresses also the Law; for sin is the transgression of the Law."

Just because we have mercy does not mean we throw all Instructions in the Law of Yahweh in the trash.

Romans 3:28, "For we maintain that a person is justified by faith apart from the works of the Law."

Romans 3:31, "Are we then doing away with the Law through the faith? By no means! Rather, we establish the Law!"

Romans 6:1-2, "What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin that grace may abound? By no means!How can we who died to sin still live in it?"

Rom 7:7, What? Can anyone therefore say that the Law is sin? No! By no means! But to the contrary, I did not know sin; transgression of the Law, except through the Law, for I did not know lust, unless the Law had said: Do not covet. 12, Therefore the Law is holy, and the commandments are holy, and just, and righteous.13 Did that which is righteous, then, become death to me? By no means! But in order that sin might be recognized as sin, it produced death in me through that which was righteous, so that through the commandments, sin might become utterly sinful."

 

[michael56]

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heav

What commands is Christ teaching at this time? The Beatitudes, he is preaching and teaching of loving God and loving your fellow man. His teaching can be summed up that way. Jesus was sent to Israel, as he said. The torah was given to Israel, not me a Gentile. The law that pertains to love God and love your fellow man remains, it is on your heart. But you can show that love to God by worshipping him any day of the week. If Gentiles must consider clean and unclean food according to the levitical laws, then you must start to dismiss what Paul wrote.
Jesus upped the law that mattered, the law no one could perfectly keep under the old covenant. Why keep talking about which day you go to church and clean and unclean foods, there are far more important laws that matter than those

 

[Hizikyah]

Do you believe if a child refuses to obey both its parents, and they are taken to the minister and still refuse to obey their parents they should be put to death? Just wondered

hold on, so I type and paste all that and that's it, you cut out everything but the first 2 lines and ask me a question that has nothing to do with anything I said..... did you even read my post?

no man is fit to take another's life on judgement, the Messiah is the judge.

 

[Hizikyah]

For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heav

What commands is Christ teaching at this time? The Beatitudes, he is preaching and teaching of loving God and loving your fellow man. His teaching can be summed up that way. Jesus was sent to Israel, as he said. The torah was given to Israel, not me a Gentile. The law that pertains to love God and love your fellow man remains, it is on your heart. But you can show that love to God by worshipping him any day of the week. If Gentiles must consider clean and unclean food according to the levitical laws, then you must start to dismiss what Paul wrote.
Jesus upped the law that mattered, the law no one could perfectly keep under the old covenant. Why keep talking about which day you go to church and clean and unclean foods, there are far more important laws that matter than those

so I guess Messiah lied then huh? because He said:

one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law

no He didnt lie....

and you use Paul in the manner Peter warned against:

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

1 Corinthians 10:23, "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."

Matt 7:13-14, "Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."

 

[michael56]

hold on, so I type and paste all that and that's it, you cut out everything but the first 2 lines and ask me a question that has nothing to do with anything I said..... did you even read my post?

no man is fit to take another's life on judgement, the Messiah is the judge.

Well that is OT law, and as you keep saying, not one jot or title........

I do not read LONG COPY/PASTES, I TOLD YOU THAT YESTERDAY

 

[michael56]

so I guess Messiah lied then huh? because He said:

one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law

no He didnt lie....

and you use Paul in the manner Peter warned against:

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

1 Corinthians 10:23, "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."

Matt 7:13-14, "Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."

sO MUST CHILDREN BE STONED TO DEATH IF THEY REFUSE TO OBEY THEIR PARENTS AND THEIR MINSTER IN THAT REGARD?

 

[Hizikyah]

Well that is OT law, and as you keep saying, not one jot or title........

I do not read LONG COPY/PASTES, I TOLD YOU THAT YESTERDAY

SO you know all I pasted was verses and everything else is type, I organized the verses it is not another persons study, so I will have to try to cease this conversation, if you wont read something because its "too long" then IDK why we are even talking. im sure there is a church that will make you read one verse and then tell you what to think for the next 2 hours....

 

[michael56]

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures

Absolutely.

 

[kennethcadwell]

For many, grace is a hard thing to accept. Bscically Jesus died for all the sins of a born again Christian, past, present and future. They are to know they are eternally secure in what Jesus did for them. They are not secure in a belief the law must be obeyed to get to Heaven. In that knowledge is great victory over sin, and that will be reflected by a believer following the true path of grace. For sin shall not be your master, for you are not under law but under grace(a righteousness of law keeping) Someone said, Jesus died to pay the penalty of your sin, and he died to break the power of sin, and the power of sin is the law 1Cor 15:56

The problem comes, when the truth of grace is not preached, but the demands of how one must live their life are. That leaves a person in the state described in Romans ch7

Yes the Lord died for all sins past, present, and future.
However this leads into another grey area as people take this as they are already forgiven without having to do anything to receive that remission. The Lord makes it clear that if you do not repent of your sins you will still perish (Luke 13:3), and you will also be baptized as He commanded it (Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16). Peter confirms this in Acts 2:38 to receive remission of sins, as the other apostles carried it out as well including Paul.
Then Paul and Peter both confirm that the sins that received remission at that point is of those at that time and past (Romans 3:25, 2 Peter 1:9). And then in 1 John 1:9, 2:1-2 shows that future sins are to be confessed to receive remission from them by the Lord, so that we can be cleansed of all unrighteousness. People take not under the law, as the law was abolished which is not correct. We are just not held to it because being under Christ and walking in love we would not want to do wrong to others.........

 

[krow]

Ceremonial laws and laws that are involved in the sacrificial system are no longer applicable under the new covenenant and today only the moral laws are. About the sabbath Jesus says

23One Sabbath day as Jesus was walking through some grainfields, his disciples began breaking off heads of grain to eat. 24But the Pharisees said to Jesus, “Look, why are they breaking the law by harvesting grain on the Sabbath?”
25Jesus said to them, “Haven’t you ever read in the Scriptures what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 26He went into the house of God (during the days when Abiathar was high priest) and broke the law by eating the sacred loaves of bread that only the priests are allowed to eat. He also gave some to his companions.”
27Then Jesus said to them, “The Sabbath was made to meet the needs of people, and not people to meet the requirements of the Sabbath. 28So the Son of Man is Lord, even over the Sabbath!”

It's okay I would say to have a day or specific time set aside to the Lord as long as that day itself doesn't become a burden.

 

[michael56]

SO you know all I pasted was verses and everything else is type, I organized the verses it is not another persons study, so I will have to try to cease this conversation, if you wont read something because its "too long" then IDK why we are even talking. im sure there is a church that will make you read one verse and then tell you what to think for the next 2 hours....

Please answer my question about children being stoned to death if they refuse to obey their parents, that is OT law.
You keep saying, not one jot or title..............

 

[Hizikyah]

hold on, so I type and paste all that and that's it, you cut out everything but the first 2 lines and ask me a question that has nothing to do with anything I said..... did you even read my post?

no man is fit to take another's life on judgement, the Messiah is the judge.

sO MUST CHILDREN BE STONED TO DEATH IF THEY REFUSE TO OBEY THEIR PARENTS AND THEIR MINSTER IN THAT REGARD?

no man is fit to take another's life on judgement, the Messiah is the judge.

The judges were removed long ago. One must be fit to judge another in matters of death, none are fit except Messiah. we must judge between right and wrong, not the fate of others lives.

not done away, but also not our role, we are not High Priest nor judge, HE IS:


Revelation 19:13-15:, "And He was wrapped in a tallit dipped in blood, and the Name of Him is called: Yahshua--The Salvation of Yahweh. And the armies in heaven clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him upon white horses, And out of His mouth goes a sharp, two-edged sword, that with it He should strike the nations; and He will rule over them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty Yahweh."

2 Corinthians 5:10, “For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Messiah, that each one may receive his reward according to what he has done in the body, whether righteous or evil.”

 

[Grandpa]

Romans 8:5-8 (ESV), "For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. For to set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace. For the mind that is set on the flesh is hostile to God, for it does not submit to God's law; indeed, it cannot. Those who are in the flesh cannot please God."

When the children of Israel were resting on saturdays, after having been given the law by Moses, was that an act of the flesh or a spiritual act?

It was an act of the flesh. It was their carnal understanding of a spiritual principal. The whole law given by Moses was an attempt to get the flesh to act as the spirit acts. It was given because they transgressed against the Grace of God.

The law given by Moses was a shadow, or a description, of what the Lord Jesus Christ would give us freely. By His Grace.

1 Corinthians 2:5-14
[SUP]5 [/SUP]That your faith should not stand in the wisdom of men, but in the power of God.
[SUP]6 [/SUP]Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:
[SUP]7 [/SUP]But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, even the hidden wisdom, which God ordained before the world unto our glory:
[SUP]8 [/SUP]Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known it, they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.
[SUP]9 [/SUP]But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.
[SUP]10 [/SUP]But God hath revealed them unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.
[SUP]11 [/SUP]For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.
[SUP]12 [/SUP]Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.
[SUP]13 [/SUP]Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned.

How can we, as carnal men, work at a spiritual law?

Is our mere work at the law considered a spiritual endeavor? Nope. If that were the case then there is no reason for the Lord Jesus, for the children of Israel were already working at the law and were yet not spiritual.

But there is a way for a carnal man to work at the spiritual law. The Lord Jesus Christ teaches us.

The way we work at the spiritual law is the same way we are saved. Its the same for all of Gods Gifts.

By Grace through Faith and not of works, lest men boast.

So if we accomplish something, it is by Gods Grace through Faith. IF we stand, it is by Grace through Faith. If we "keep" any of His Perfect Law it is by Grace through Faith.

Is it so bad to rest in the work of Christ and cease from our own work and be freely given the good things of God by Grace through Faith? Isn't it absolutely necessary to learn this basic principle???

What are you justified by?
What are you sanctified by?
What are you saved by?

Having started in the Spirit are you perfected by the flesh?

I used to think I caused God to act by my obedience. That God owed me because I was so good. But there is only One that is Good, isn't there?

I think Abraham knew all about Grace through Faith. Do you think he was pleasing to God even though he wasn't given the command to rest on saturdays? I wonder why the Hebrews were given this command but Abraham was not? I don't really wonder... I was actually hoping you would wonder... Perhaps Abraham was already resting in Gods Grace and Provision and didn't need to be commanded to do it once a week as a shadow/tutor/instruction... Remember, the law was given because of transgression....

 

[michael56]

The judges were removed long ago. One must be fit to judge another in matters of death, none are fit except Messiah. we must judge between right and wrong, not the fate of others lives.

not done away, but also not our role, we are not High Priest nor judge, HE IS:


Revelation 19:13-15:, "And He was wrapped in a tallit dipped in blood, and the Name of Him is called: Yahshua--The Salvation of Yahweh. And the armies in heaven clothed in fine linen, white and clean, followed Him upon white horses, And out of His mouth goes a sharp, two-edged sword, that with it He should strike the nations; and He will rule over them with a rod of iron; and He treads the wine press of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty Yahweh."

So not every jot or title is now in force.

 

[krow]

Please answer my question about children being stoned to death if they refuse to obey their parents, that is OT law.
You keep saying, not one jot or title..............

I don't imagine many parents even in those days chose to use that remedy in the law. They could have done that if they wished but what parents are really going to have their children put to death for dishonoring them?

 

[Hizikyah]

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures

Absolutely.

hmm you forgot v 17, error of lawless people, you wrote it in the verse description, wonder why you left that part out?

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

 

[michael56]

so I guess Messiah lied then huh? because He said:

one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law

no He didnt lie....

and you use Paul in the manner Peter warned against:

2 peter 3:15-17, "And count the patience of our Lord as salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote to you according to the wisdom given him, as he does in all his letters when he speaks in them of these matters. There are some things in them that are hard to understand, which the ignorant and unstable twist to their own destruction, as they do the other Scriptures. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, take care that you are not carried away with the error of lawless people and lose your own stability."

1 Corinthians 10:23, "All things are lawful for me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me, but all things edify not."

Matt 7:13-14, "Enter in through the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and many are those who go that way. Because straight is the gate, and narrow is the way which leads to life, and few there are who find it."

Why didn't Jesus tell the Pharisees to stone the woman to death who was caught in the act of adultery? That was the literal law

 

[Hizikyah]

There is not a command to observe Saturday as the Sabbath in the new covenant.
The new covenant command states one may observe one day more than others, and another may observe all days alike. There is nothing wrong with either, as long as we are giving everyday to God. And the Lord made changes in the NT on how the Sabbath is observed, as no longer is working on it a capital offense as we see with His apostles and the man He healed, and it also states that through obedience our Sabbath rest is now in Him.

Plus the scriptures in Acts shows that the Apostles/disciples did worship on Sundays, and used Saturdays to bring in new converts.......

lol so you "uphold he TEN Commandments" but change the 4th?

really?

so you uphold the 9 then....

What Law do you think this is talking about being changed?


Daniyl 7:25, "And he will speak great words against Yahweh, and will wear out the saints of Yahweh, and think to change times and Laws..."

I have yet to find a single person that says Sabbath has been chaged that will even comment on this verse, what happened to the whole word, and Spirit and truth?

Mattithyah 12:12, "And how much more valuable is a man than a sheep? Therefore, it is Lawful to do righteousness on the Sabbath."

it has always been the intent to do right on the Sabbath:


Isayah 58:13-14, "If you turn away your foot from breaking the Sabbath: from doing your pleasure; your own business, your own pleasure, on My holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight; the holy day of Yahweh honorable, and will honor Him by not doing your own ways, nor finding your own pleasure, nor engaging in aidle conversation: Then you will find your joy in Yahweh; and I will cause you to ride on the high places of the earth, and feed you with the heritage of Yaaqob your father--for the mouth of Yahweh has spoken it."

 

[michael56]

And account that the longsuffering of our Lord is salvation; even as our beloved brother Paul also according to the wisdom given unto him hath written unto you;
[SUP]16 [/SUP]As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.


I agree with the above, also Romans 6:14 BTW