You yourselves are our letter, written on our hearts, known and read by everyone.[SUP]3 [/SUP]You show that you are a letter from Christ, the result of our ministry, written not with ink but with the Spirit of the living God, not on tablets of stone but on tablets of human hearts.
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Well I will give you credit with the above, everyone else who believes Saturday Sabbath must be observed(I am assuming that is what you belief) refuses to address the point. So your belief must be, if you accept the law is written on the mind and placed on the heart of the born again Christian, anyone who does not observe Saturday Sabbath and has no conscience they are sinning before God by refusing to do so cannot be a Christian
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L
Laodicea
Guest
It looks like you are reading what you want to read. As I said before I can see that you are wanting to attack my posts. I never said a person is not a christian for not keeping the sabbath. I was speaking to you not making a general statement that in that point, on the sabbath you have not surrendered to Christ.
Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they are wrong and you can attack what they teach.
If you believe a Saturday Sabbath must be followed(if you do) and if you believe the law God requires a person to keep is written on their mind and placed on their heart (I assume you do) there is no other truthful alternative than to believe what I pointed out.
It is an everlasting covenant. But the way the Jews "kept it" is a shadow of what Christ gives us.
Hebrews 7:15-19
[SUP]15 [/SUP]And it is yet far more evident: for that after the similitude of Melchisedec there ariseth another priest,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]Who is made, not after the law of a carnal commandment, but after the power of an endless life.
[SUP]17 [/SUP]For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.
[SUP]18 [/SUP]For there is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]For the law made nothing perfect, but the bringing in of a better hope did; by the which we draw nigh unto God.
John 6:63 [SUP] [/SUP]It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Romans 9:30-32
[SUP]30 [/SUP]What shall we say then? That the Gentiles, which followed not after righteousness, have attained to righteousness, even the righteousness which is of faith.
[SUP]31 [/SUP]But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
[SUP]32 [/SUP]Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone;
Does working at the commandments cause a person to be righteous? Nope. Keeping the commandments is what makes a person righteous, and that is only accomplished by Grace through Faith and not of works, lest any boast. Kind of sounds like a mystery, doesn't it??? Those who are working at the law aren't keeping the law... weird.
Thank You Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.
L
Laodicea
Guest
M
Mitspa
Guest
Ga 2:16 Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.
Is keeping the Sabbath according to the law of Moses a "work of the law"?
Col 2:16 ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath,
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
Is keeping the Sabbath according to the law of Moses a "work of the law"?
Col 2:16 ¶ Let no man therefore judge you in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the Sabbath,
17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
The letter says observe the sabbath under the old covenant(that was a saturday). To me, the Spirit says what matters to God is you want to worship Him with all your heart in praise and thanksgiving for what He has done for you through Christ. And God will be just as happy to receive such praise and worship any day of the seven-He does not differentiate. That for me is the spiritual reality, giving God heartfelt praise and thanks, not which particular day you give it(should be all 7 in my view)
Was the Sabbath abolished?
Should Christians observe the 4th commandment?
Or is it still in effect like the other 9 commandments?
Please respond with biblical evidence
Genesis 2:2-3 clearly establishes that the 7th day is the Sabbath.
Acts 2:46
46 And they, continuing daily with one accord in the temple, and breaking bread from house to house, did eat their meat with gladness and singleness of heart,
KJV
Historically, for the first three centuries, the majority of the Church observed the Sabbath on the seventh day and the 'Lord's day' on the first day of the week.
Jesus was ressurected on the first day of the week; and the Holy Spirit began to indwell believers on the first day of the week; so there is ample reason for the Church to commemorate the day with worship and praise.
Sabbath observance is now a matter of conscience.
Rom 14:5-6
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
KJV
If you feel led by the Holy Spirit to observe the Sabbath, it is still the seventh day Sabbath.
If you feel led to criticize any one for observing or not observing the Sabbath, Scripture Cited proves you wrong!
S
Sophia
Guest
For some reason, I expected you to advocate Saturday Sabbath exclusively. I am so happy that you have so much understanding on this topic. I agree with your post wholeheartedly.
actually could you please point out the part of your cited scripture that says the 7th day Sabbath is in question here?
No you can't so lets not be so sure of ourselves now.
Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
Is the 7th day Sabbath a doubtful disputation? nope pretty clear as the first half of your post shows.
what in your view does the law specifically the 10 commandments do?
You bolded the part about it being a shadow, how about the part that says...
of things to come
keeping in mind that it is looking forward to something that has not yet occurred and it was written twenty-some years AFTER the death, burial and resurrection of Christ.
I will respectfully disagree here...
Rom 14:1 Him that is weak in the faith receive ye, but not to doubtful disputations.
The first thing we see here is that this chapter is about relating to a weak brother.
Rom 14:2 For one believeth that he may eat all things: another, who is weak, eateth herbs.
The subject here? Vegetarianism
Rom 14:3 Let not him that eateth despise him that eateth not; and let not him which eateth not judge him that eateth: for God hath received him.
So, if you encounter one who is weak in the faith and believes he must eat vegetables only, don’t let this puff you up…
2Co 10:12 For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise.
What is the gold standard here?
1Pe 2:21 For even hereunto were ye called: because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that ye should follow his steps:
Eph 4:13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Now to the meat and potatoes…
Rom 14:5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
Rom 14:6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
Why is eating and fasting (not eating) connected to days here? Let’s see…
Luk 18:11 The Pharisee stood and prayed thus with himself, God, I thank thee, that I am not as other men are, extortioners, unjust, adulterers, or even as this publican.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
Yes they fasted two days a week, Monday and Thursday, EVERY MONDAY and EVERY THURSDAY.
Rom 14:7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
Rom 14:8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
Rom 14:9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
Rom 14:10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
Rom 14:11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
Rom 14:12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Rom 14:13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
Rom 14:14 I know, and am persuaded by the Lord Jesus, that there is nothing unclean of itself: but to him that esteemeth any thing to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
Rom 14:15 But if thy brother be grieved with thy meat, now walkest thou not charitably. Destroy not him with thy meat, for whom Christ died.
Now Paul shifts his attention to meat offered to idols. At the time, meat and drink were offered to pagan idols. After it was offered it was sold in a meat market called the ‘Shambles’.
1Co 10:25 Whatsoever is sold in the shambles, that eat, asking no question for conscience sake:
Shambles…
G3111
μάκελλον
makellon
Thayer Definition:
1) a place where meat and other articles of food are sold, meat market
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: of Latin origin [macellum]
Citing in TDNT: 4:370, 549
There were those who were weak in the faith (verse 1) who were offended by this. They somehow thought that eating that food was somehow connecting them with the idolatrous practices around them. This is why the following is written…
Rom 14:16 Let not then your good be evil spoken of:
Rom 14:17 For the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; but righteousness, and peace, and joy in the Holy Ghost.
Meat here is…
G1035
βρῶσις
brōsis
bro'-sis
From the base of G977; (abstractly) eating (literally or figuratively); by extension (concretely) food (literally or figuratively): - eating, food, meat.
Notice it is food, not clean or unclean flesh.
G4213
πόσις
posis
pos'-is
From the alternate of G4095; a drinking (the act), that is, (concretely) a draught: - drink.
Drinking, can be alcoholic or non-alcoholic beverages. Paul was dealing with ascetism and the belief that doing without was somehow a show of character. He dealt with this issue at Colossae also…
Col 2:21 (Touch not; taste not; handle not;
Col 2:22 Which all are to perish with the using
after the commandments and doctrines of men? Col 2:23 Which things have indeed a shew of wisdom in will worship, and humility, and neglecting of the body; not in any honour to the satisfying of the flesh.
Rom 14:18 For he that in these things serveth Christ is acceptable to God, and approved of men.
Rom 14:19 Let us therefore follow after the things which make for peace, and things wherewith one may edify another.
Rom 14:20 For meat destroy not the work of God. All things indeed are pure; but it is evil for that man who eateth with offence.
The word for meat here is broma, from Thayer’s…
G1033
βρῶμα
brōma
Thayer Definition:
1) that which is eaten, food
Part of Speech: noun neuter
A Related Word by Thayer’s/Strong’s Number: from the base of G977
Citing in TDNT: 1:642, 111
Again, we are dealing with food.
Rom 14:21 It is good neither to eat flesh, nor to drink wine, nor any thing whereby thy brother stumbleth, or is offended, or is made weak.
So, it is not dealing with clean and unclean, but with flesh (meat) and wine (drink) that makes a weak brother stumble.
Rom 14:22 Hast thou faith? have it to thyself before God. Happy is he that condemneth not himself in that thing which he alloweth.
Rom 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.
There is no passage in Rom 14 that deals with the Sabbath or clean and unclean meats. The subjects are vegetarianism, fasting and food and drink offered to idols.
M
Mitspa
Guest
Yes a shadow of the Body! The body is Christ and clearly we don't serve the shadow we serve Christ.
A shadow of what? Scripture plainly says it is a shadow of something to come. What is yet to come?
M
Mitspa
Guest
Its was a shadow of the Body...Christ is the body. Look at your body and unless your in the dark, it has a shadow.
Yes the law was til Christ "for Christ is the end of the law for righteousness for all those who believe"
That is clearly not what is said here. It clearly says...
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
What does the conjunction "but" mean?
Contrasting the thought "the body is of Christ." with "things to come". By the way, notice that the word "is" was not in the original. Take it out and read the entire thought as Paul wrote it...
Let no man therefore judge you (in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come
but the body of Christ.
M
Mitspa
Guest
The law was until Christ...Christ was that which came! This is not that complicated John.That is clearly not what is said here. It clearly says...
Col 2:17 Which are a shadow of things to come; but the body is of Christ.
What does the conjunction "but" mean?
Contrasting the thought "the body is of Christ." with "things to come". By the way, notice that the word "is" was not in the original. Take it out and read the entire thought as Paul wrote it...
Let no man therefore judge you (in meat, or in drink, or in respect of an holyday, or of the new moon, or of the sabbath days: Which are a shadow of things to come
