Was the STAR of Bethlehem a comet?
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LPT
Guest
It’s kind of folk lore about being three wise men magi, just because there was three types of gifts mentioned and it doesn’t even mentioned how much of each but anyhow that doesn’t mean there was three wise men.
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LPT
Guest
I haven’t watched it all yet an hour plus long lol but so far it is interesting and I like his presentation.
Marry Christmas to you P4T thks for posting.
here is an article from 1991 issue of the Quarterly Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society, Vol. 32, NO.4, in which the authors argue for the sign the magi saw and followed to be a combination of three things: the triple conjunction of Mar, Jupiter and Saturn in 7 BC, the following massing of the three planets in 6 BC, and in 5 BC the comet ((not in an observed closed orbit, i.e. never observed since or before)) described in Chinese records as being clearly visible for 70 days.
all three events would have been seen as very important to contemporary astronomer-astrologists, ((that's astrology not in the modern sense)) -- all of which, BTW, would point to Christ being born somewhere around Passover in Julian calendar April, 5 BC
http://adsbit.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?1991QJRAS..32..389H&classic=YES
i don't necessarily endorse any of the article's claims, just sharing for interest
enjoy
all three events would have been seen as very important to contemporary astronomer-astrologists, ((that's astrology not in the modern sense)) -- all of which, BTW, would point to Christ being born somewhere around Passover in Julian calendar April, 5 BC
http://adsbit.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?1991QJRAS..32..389H&classic=YES
i don't necessarily endorse any of the article's claims, just sharing for interest
enjoy
L
LPT
Guest
Thanks for all for posting I’ve enjoyed today’s discussions and I’ve learned something today as well.
Signing off for now see yah later.
Signing off for now see yah later.
Question...and hope not opening can of worms...
The wise men were directed to go to Bethlehem...they went FIRST to Jerusalem to ask after Jesus. King Herod was not happy but some of the scribes found the prohecy that he would be born in Bethlehem. The star shone he way. We read in Matthew. But then we read his parents took him to egypt to flee King Herod wrath and slaughter of the innocents of two years under born in Bethlehem.
In Luke we read Jesus was born in Bethlehem, but eight days later he was to be circumcised. And then presented to the temple in Jerusalem. No mention of fleeing to Egypt...so...
What happened there?? How did they avoid King Herod who was in Jerusalem at the time, if they took him to be presented...and then they went back to Nazareth.
The wise men were directed to go to Bethlehem...they went FIRST to Jerusalem to ask after Jesus. King Herod was not happy but some of the scribes found the prohecy that he would be born in Bethlehem. The star shone he way. We read in Matthew. But then we read his parents took him to egypt to flee King Herod wrath and slaughter of the innocents of two years under born in Bethlehem.
In Luke we read Jesus was born in Bethlehem, but eight days later he was to be circumcised. And then presented to the temple in Jerusalem. No mention of fleeing to Egypt...so...
What happened there?? How did they avoid King Herod who was in Jerusalem at the time, if they took him to be presented...and then they went back to Nazareth.
No offense, good questions. It looks like perhaps Jesus was around 2 when his parents fled to Egypt after being warned by an angel. In Luke he was presented at the 41st day after his birth if I recall correctly. Herod was not aware of the child or his being Messiah at that time.
Excellent, thanks!here is an article from 1991 issue of the Quarterly Journal of the Royal Astronomical Society, Vol. 32, NO.4, in which the authors argue for the sign the magi saw and followed to be a combination of three things: the triple conjunction of Mar, Jupiter and Saturn in 7 BC, the following massing of the three planets in 6 BC, and in 5 BC the comet ((not in an observed closed orbit, i.e. never observed since or before)) described in Chinese records as being clearly visible for 70 days.
all three events would have been seen as very important to contemporary astronomer-astrologists, ((that's astrology not in the modern sense)) -- all of which, BTW, would point to Christ being born somewhere around Passover in Julian calendar April, 5 BC
http://adsbit.harvard.edu/cgi-bin/nph-iarticle_query?1991QJRAS..32..389H&classic=YES
i don't necessarily endorse any of the article's claims, just sharing for interest
enjoy
Ellen White says in Desire of Ages page 61, "That star was a distant company of shining angels, but of this the wise men were ignorant. Yet they were impressed that the star was of special import to them."
L
Locoponydirtman
Guest
Ok interesting about angels...a shining heavenly host? if moses saw God in a burning bush...and He is a consuming fire...then the star of Bethlehem would have been a glory or a light manifestation of Gods presence...
Not sure about the magi visiting when Jesus was around two though they were only passing through Bethlehem for the census/taxing didnt even have anywhere to stay....they wouldnt have stayed there for 2 years. And the magi DID go to Bethlehem although it is said Jesus was a young child though not a baby. So just wondered if it was before being presented to the temple or after. Of course King Herod would not have been looking round Jerusalem at the time, he was focused on killing everyone baby born in Bethlehem..but why would Jesus parents then take him back to Bethlehem and then to .egypt...where did the 41 days come from.
Ok now confused.
Not sure about the magi visiting when Jesus was around two though they were only passing through Bethlehem for the census/taxing didnt even have anywhere to stay....they wouldnt have stayed there for 2 years. And the magi DID go to Bethlehem although it is said Jesus was a young child though not a baby. So just wondered if it was before being presented to the temple or after. Of course King Herod would not have been looking round Jerusalem at the time, he was focused on killing everyone baby born in Bethlehem..but why would Jesus parents then take him back to Bethlehem and then to .egypt...where did the 41 days come from.
Ok now confused.
Jesus said its an evil generation that seeks after a signs and wonders gospel .
Isaiah 47:13 Thou art wearied in the multitude of thy counsels. Let now the astrologers, the stargazers, the monthly prognosticators, stand up, and save thee from these things that shall come upon thee.
and He gave them the sign of Jonah
There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars.
On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea.
(Luke 21:25)
scholarly article giving description, synopsis and analysis of a 2nd - 5th century apocryphal book originally written in Syriac called 'the revelation of the magi'
http://www.tonyburke.ca/wp-content/uploads/Landau-Revelation-of-the-Magi.pdf
this very early story suggests at least primarily Chinese magi, 12 or more in number, descended from Seth, and describes the star as transforming into a heavenly being who personally leads them along a miraculous journey to Bethlehem.
((not an endorsement, just informational))
http://www.tonyburke.ca/wp-content/uploads/Landau-Revelation-of-the-Magi.pdf
this very early story suggests at least primarily Chinese magi, 12 or more in number, descended from Seth, and describes the star as transforming into a heavenly being who personally leads them along a miraculous journey to Bethlehem.
((not an endorsement, just informational
))and He gave them the sign of Jonah
There will be signs in the sun, moon and stars. On the earth, nations will be in anguish and perplexity at the roaring and tossing of the sea.(Luke 21:25)
Yes the sign of Christ's living sacrifice given in Isiah 53... the last sign. Its a evil generation natural unconverted man that does seek after one today .They must walk by sight having no faith needed to believe God.
Yes and on the last day when he comes as a thief in the night those sign keepers for time, the sun ,moon and the stars will no longer needed. A sign of the times
And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof.Revf.21:23
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LPT
Guest
Indeed excellent answer P4T, and it was around 41st certainly after 40 days had pass per OT law.
What Women Must Do after Giving Birth
Leviticus 12
1 The Lord told Moses
2 to say to the community of Israel: If a woman gives birth to a son, she is unclean for seven days, just as she is during her monthly period.
3 Her son must be circumcised on the eighth day,
4 but her loss of blood keeps her from being completely clean for another thirty-three days. During this time she must not touch anything holy or go to the place of worship.
5 Any woman who gives birth to a daughter is unclean for two weeks, just as she is during her period. And she won’t be completely clean for another sixty-six days.
6 When the mother has completed her time of cleansing, she must come to the front of the sacred tent and bring to the priest a year-old lamb as a sacrifice to please me and a dove or a pigeon as a sacrifice for sin.
7 After the priest offers the sacrifices to me, the mother will become completely clean from her loss of blood, whether her child is a boy or a girl.
8 If she cannot afford a lamb, she can offer two doves or two pigeons, one as a sacrifice to please me and the other as a sacrifice for sin.
Yes you're confused. How are you assuming the Magi had to have stayed in Bethlehem for about 2 years for it to be true Jesus was around 2 years of age???
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LPT
Guest
As Preacher4truth had mentioned Herod didn’t know or believe at that time, shepherds spreading the word wasn’t credible enough until the wise men came to Herod and said they had seen a star in the east, these men had high stature among rulers in those times, they’re words were more credible with Herod.
Joseph being a carpenter and built things i think he probably had a cart to bring a 9 month pregnant Mary to Bethlehem sum 90 miles away from Nazareth, not but a few days journey on donkeys and or cart. I can’t see Joseph having a full term pregnant wife making her walk 90 miles to Jerusalem. He had means of transportation either donkeys and or cart as well.
But IMO after they had registered in Bethlehem the same day Mary gave birth, they went home for they couldn’t go to the temple until 40 days had passed.
i think he means Joseph and Mary would have to have stayed in Bethlehem for 2 years, if the magi didn't come till then.
but Matthew tells us they were directed to Bethlehem as the site of His birth by Herod & the priests Herod made inquiries with, and then set off - and were guided by the star, Matthew 2:9
after that they fled to Egypt, being warned by an angel, vv. 13-14
the Magi went back by a different route, avoiding Herod, being similarly warned by God, v.12
when Herod realized the magi weren't coming back to see him, that's when he ordered the murder of all the 2yr-old and younger boys in Bethlehem, v.16
this could fit Mary & Joseph taking up residence in Bethlehem for around two years, or it could fit them being back in Nazareth, the magi being led there instead, and Herod not knowing any different. if the latter, we'd have to sort out why Joseph and Mary fled even though they weren't around Bethlehem. i guess you could say they're still in danger because if Herod discovered them, wherever they were, He would kill them.